Mike Lister

What if somebody who you'd done work for, gave you some money and called it a gift, would that deserve to escape tax, just because somebody called it a gift? What if somebody gave yo a gift of money in order to escape their tax liability, would that still be a tax free gift for everyone? Here's what we know about Gift Tax in Thailand, from the tax guide linked below. As you can see, the picture is less than clear: GIFT TAX 67) First and foremost, our confidence levels that we understand all the Gift Tax rules is not high. What the Rules Say 68) The TRD does not consider what the purpose is of remitted funds, only whether they are assessable or not. If a foreigner remits non-assessable funds and then gifts them in Thailand, that is the end of the matter for the gifter. 69) If however the foreigner remits assessable funds to Thailand and then gifts them inside Thailand, those funds must be reported as assessable income on the foreigners tax return, no matter that they are later gifted. 70) The third scenario is not agreed by everyone and is contingent upon further input from the TRD. It suggests that if the foreigner gifts offshore assessable income, direct to a Thai resident, the foreigner must report that income as if they themselves had received it directly. 71) "PIT is levied on gifts given by persons who are still alive. The tax is collected on the assets or the amount given to parents, ascendants, descendants, spouse, or others based on the value of the gift that exceeds a prescribed threshold, which depends on the type of gift and donor. Assets or amounts given that do not exceed the threshold are exempt from tax. 72) The following gifts are exempt from PIT: a) Income derived by a parent from the transfer of ownership or possessory right in an immovable property without any consideration to a legitimate child, excluding an adopted child, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year in respect of each child. b) Maintenance income or gifts from ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 20 million throughout a tax year. c) Maintenance income derived under a moral obligation or gifts made in a ceremony or on occasions in accordance with established custom from persons who are not ascendants, descendants, or spouse, in the amount not exceeding THB 10 million throughout a tax year. d) Income from gifts in the case where the person who receives the gifts will use them for religious, educational, or public benefit purposes according to the intention of the donors under the criteria and conditions referred to in the Ministerial Regulations. 73) Gifts in excess of the above thresholds will be subject to PIT at the rate of 5% and will not need to be included together with other income when computing the annual PIT liability. 74) For ascendants/descendants the threshold is THB 20 mill, nor non-ascendants and descendants, it's THB 10 mill". What Some Members Think: 75) The following summary points compiled by a member may help guide readers in the use of Gift Tax: a) Gifts must be traditional gifts based around a fixed date or occasion. b) Traditional gifts include supporting the spouse or other persons, mainly family, based on a moral obligation. c) Gifts to non-family members are more likely not to meet the moral obligation criterion. d) A ceremonial act may be required, in particular for non-spouses. e) Gifts must not be returned to the donor and used as a way to avoid income taxes, except under very specific Gift Tax rules which are likely to void the earlier tax advantage. f) Moral obligation is subject to interpretation, there is no single definition. g) TRD may apply additional criteria. h) TRD assessment may differ from self-assessment which risk must be evaluated in each case individually. 76) Additional points on this subject are: a) Funds that are gifted, must be for the use of the person to whom they are gifted. b) Gifts can be revoked later and reclaimed, under specific circumstances, such as if the receiver of the gift defames the Gifter or fails to take care of their serious medical needs. c) Gifts to a spouse become Sin Suan Tua or the sole property of the spouse, under marital law the gift is not regarded as conjugal property. d) Gifts made outside Thailand appear to be safe. e) The Gift must be formally documented and recorded, the more documentation the better. f) No more than THB 20 mill should be remitted to Thailand per year, unless 5% Gift Tax is paid on the balance. 77) Until the circumstances surrounding Gift Tax and all it entails, becomes more clear,, it is critical that anyone wishing to use Gift Tax, seeks professional advice.Note: Because Gift Tax is predominantly a domain of the wealthy and depends to a large extent on local practice, there is a shortage of confirmed information on this subject. One field of thought is that Gift Tax cannot be used to escape Thai tax by Gifting untaxed money from overseas. On the other hand, many Western countries, including the UK, do not tax gifts from overseas. Members wishing to exercise this option should seek qualified advice before using this option to Gift untaxed funds.

One of the key tests to tell if it is a goiter is an ultrasound exam, which is non-invasive, painless and inexpensive. A biopsy of the thyroid may seem daunting but is actually totally painless and quick.....I've had both several times and have had my thyroid removed completely, which also is not a big deal.

I don't think Western expats were ever "in" in Thailand, Thailand has ALWAYS been an Asian dominated destination where Western expats/tourists/residents were a small minority.

Funny! It depends who that someone is, what the money is for, where the money came from and why it's being given to you.

There's no fearmongering involved in a retrospective view of past behaviour, what seemed appropriate to do at the time, turned out to be less than desirable or appropriate later, with the benefit of hindsight. People do that sort of thing often, about many aspects of their lives, do they not. The philosophy is to share information but there's no harm in sharing lessons learned also, that's not fearmongering, that's being grown up and intelligent about the issue. I note that several posters have deployed the word "fearmongering" more often of late. My take on this is that the tax narrative has now moved on to a subsequent lower level of detail and many are now starting to think more deeply about different aspects.......coins are finally dropping in some quarters, which can only be a good thing. There was a mini debate recently about whether investments in the equities markets were regarded as savings for tax purposes or are they, as the name implies, investments that occur a Capital Gain. I had that debate many many years ago, others are now having it for the first time but see the topic itself as fearmongering. Well no it's not that at all really, the fact that "you've" only just woken up to the existence of the question, doesn't mean I'm fearmongering, it means you've just had an epiphany moment and are struggling to understand it but can't so you blame it on the behaviour of others.

50% of that pension comes from the UK State pension, the other 50% comes from US Social Security. US Social Security will only pay into a bank in the country where I live, ergo, that must be in Thailand. I like to play straight with DWP and my State Pension, they know I live in Thailand because I've told them so there's no point in seasoning the state pension, it falls within my TEDA anyway whereas the US SSC is treaty exempt. So no point in seasoning, may just as well have the convenience of DD into Thailand, all currency exchanges done at a decent rate of exchange and no need to worry about bank transfers. That just leaves my rental income which remains in the UK and my investment account or SIPP which is onshore also.

Has anyone been? Is it worth a visit? Difficult to get to? TIA

600 is the doctor charge, the hospital bits and pieces are the other 600 baht.

The BP also reports that new sales of greater BKK townhouses in the 5-7 mill. range, plunged to a 12 year low, a fall of 58%

A decent read: https://am.jpmorgan.com/content/dam/jpm-am-aem/global/en/insights/market-insights/myo-chart-images-2024/2024 Mid-Year Investment Outlook.pdf

Yep, a number of expats need to get over their self importance here, it's just not warranted. TBH the house I bought for my wife and myself to live in was always going to be hers no matter what, I took no steps to ever prevent that from happening and wo0nt change my mind. If a worst case scenario sees me having to leave, I wont have lost anything I hadn't already given away. I'll just move back to the Lakes and eat fish and chips whilst gazing at Morecambe Bay....life could be worse.

Not that I'm aware and no, there's been no feedback that I've seen.

I'm glad you are comfortable speaking on behalf of everyone else and knowing exactly how everyone else manages their finances. I'm also happy that you have such an effective crystal ball!

Exactly that, and the banks and many other entities in Thailand also. The closer you can get to the source of the original message, eg Bangkok, the more likely it is you'll get the true story. In the North we have a 50/50 chance, Issan folks have no hope.

You keep raising this point repeatedly and others keep commenting on it, despite you understanding full well that there was and still is a legal requirement for people such as myself to file a tax return each year, because my pensions were/are paid directly into my Thai bank every month. Anyone else who remitted their pensions in the same way, using same year income, had a similar obligation and that must number people in the thousands. Please stop trying to denigrate and humiliate me for following the tax law, I'm tired of it.

I have no time or interest in your stupidity, congratulations on being the very first member to make it all the way to my ignore list.

So was I ....:)))

All my adult life I've had higher than normal blood pressure, in a hospital setting it was often stellar. Doctors kept harping on about exercise, diets, lifestyle blah blah. One tried me on blood pressure meds, yuk, forget that. Last year I had my thyroid removed, now my blood pressure is 100% normal, 100% of the time, under 100% of circumstances. Go figure.

That 10% surge in new food business openings in the past year comes from people leaving other businesses that have failed and looking for new self sufficient opportunities.....I have no job, what can I do, I know I'll cook something and sell it. These are becoming desperate times for many. My wife operates a successful, from home bakery that has seen stellar growth over the past five years, this years the business is struggling for the first time ever. It's discretionary spending and people aren't spending.

I gave you those links because they are just two of the many different sources of information that we have found over the past six months which when combined, create a picture of what the TRD rules are. You asked me to post the TRD rules confirming something or other, that's not the way this game is being played. It's being played by joining together various Q&A's, video interviews with embassy and TRD staff, articles by Big 4 consultants, dissemination of court cases and legal opinions written in Thai and also first hand information from visits to the TRD by members. The latter however is unreliable because such visits reflect only one persons opinion at a time, from a single office, by a single TRD officer and is highly likely to change based on the office and the TRD attendees, we've seen that repeatedly. Infamously, we have seen minutes of a meeting between a Dutch taxpayer in Hua Hin and several senior TRD officers, including a TRD lawyer, where the things that were said, contradict much of what had been learned p[reviously and opened up more new issues than it closed. That is the nature of what we are attempting to unravel here.

Everything that happens today has happened in the past, so using the old, based on history line, doesn;'t really wash. The realities are that the markets function is specific ways. Spending by the population is first noticed in small companies, because they are smaller the spending shows up more quickly. Ditto when the population ceases to spend, the small caps are the ones who feel it first and where it shows up soonest. Large caps and giants need momentum and greater levels of spending that come with sustained economic improvements, that why small caps are so volatile. The same is true of index rises and falls. Of course there is a historic pattern , there's a historic pattern to everything. But pattern in itself is not the cause of any future prediction, the predictions for the future is generated by understanding what causes the pattern in the first place!

Your 35% to 45% of GDP figure is not even remotely supportable, even if all of international tourism is included ,which is only 9% of GDP at most. Resident western expats, intended to include retirees and expat workers, account for perhaps 3% of GDP at most. The 4 million foreigners are low income workers from neighbouring countries and negligible contributors.

Area and District are pretty much interchangeable terms, the District Offices in Chiang Mai having only recently been bedged from Districts to Area. : 101) The main office of the TRD is in Bangkok. The country is divided into tax regions and each region is sub divided into districts. Small TRD offices are located in many tessabahns which serve the local community. When dealing with the TRD, it is advisable to deal with at least District Level offices. The address of the TRD Office in Bangkok is: The Revenue Department 90 Soi Phaholyothin 7 Phaholyothin Road Phayathai Bangkok 10400 102) The following link shows how the country is divided into tax regions with their different districts. https://www.rd.go.th/337.html

Perhaps read through the Q&A's in the link below, there are others in the series that will help fill in knowledge gaps. Note also Q13: https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html More Q&A's here: https://www.expattaxthailand.com/your-questions-answered/

There is no provision in Thai tax law for capital losses under DTA rules.