Mike Lister

500 baht or a 10 day wait in the North.

Belt and braces, everyone is trying to cover themselves at the expense of another department! Also a cash grab by Immi on the residence certificate.

You are of course correct. It is likely I'm becoming a tad tetchy at the persistent prodding and jibing by a couple of miscreant living dead types in related threads....apologies.

I fail to understand the confusion on this point, the Tax Guide and the Tax Code is explicit: TAX IDENTIFICATION NUMBER (TIN) 84) Before you can file a tax return in Thailand, you must obtain a Tax Identification Number or TIN from the RD offices in your area. You are required by law to obtain a TIN, within 60 days from when you first derive the minimum assessable income, which is 120,000 baht of income received from overseas, after becoming tax resident. For long stay residents that will be a minimum of 180 days plus 60 days in country, in the same tax year. The Thai ID card number serves as the TIN for the local population. It is not necessary for people who are not Thai tax resident to obtain a TIN, neither is it necessary to obtain one if you do not exceed the assessable income level threshold.

I said two months, that's close enough to 60 days is it not! And I am pretty certain that as long as we've all been involved in this topic that everyone now fully understand that it means income that is assessable rather than just money that is received.

To be clear.....1 Jan 2025 is not a key date other than it is the start of the tax reporting for income remitted THIS calendar year.

I think the Sherrings statement on Capital Gains is correct but I am less certain about whether or not the TRD would tax the proceeds as income at PIT rates.

Nonsense! Walk into any bank in Thailand and you'll likely get a different story about whether or not you can open a bank account or not, the same thing is true of the need for TIN's to be issued. If anyone wnats a TIN, go and demand one, if that's not successful, call the Revenue hotline in Bangkok, they will get you one pretty sharpish if you ask them. Not everyone wants to wait until next January to try and understand what impact, if any, there may be as a result of the rule change. Many people live their lives trying to understand these things in advance and do their homework and math so they can relax a little bit. I have a mail box full of PM's from aged pensioners on limited incomes who have asked me to try and understand their likely tax liability. In EVERY case, the answer has been positive and the person reassured so now they don't have to stress for the rest of the year, waiting for whatever it is that some others seem to be waiting for. In the black or white tax scenario's there is either no tax to pay or there is a substantial tax impact, one group can sit back and relax and the other group can begin doing some early planning. The group in the middle, the grey group, they can do some whatiffery but they will be foolish to take it too far, until some of the grey is removed. What people do with information is their choice but nobody can do anything without any information, except be concerned or worse. What we've done, that's many many of us, over the [ast six months, is to try and provide that information and I think collectively the group has done an excellent job, under difficult circumstances. How people handle the information, how they interpret the future, is beyond anyone's control except theirs but nobody needs to be critical of those who have done their best to seek it out and display it in an understandable way. Lastly, there have been maybe half a dozen members who have complained in posts such as yours, you are outweighed in the opinion polls by at least 100:1.

I agree with the previous poster regarding your tax position. There is a legal obligation to file a return, even though there is no tax to pay and this obligation is set at quite a low level, 60k or 120k of remitted assessable income, depending on the source (220K for married people filing jointly). The next milestone is the threshold at which you personally will have to begin paying tax and this point varies based on age, source and type of income and personal allowances and deductions. Those over age 65 years are entitled to a age related deduction of 190k which puts them well ahead of those younger. as Mike said above, you can easily not pay tax until you have remitted 500k to 600k of assessable income. You say you remit 900k, of which 400k is assessable. That means the 400k will be taxable in stepped bands, the first 150k is zero rated, the next 150k is taxed at 5% and the next 200k at 10%. NOTEL the above assumes that the 400k is actually assessable and not exempt income by treaty, eg US Social Security. The tax tables and other related information is here:

Use the Bangkok Revenue headquarters help line, that's what it's for.

By using your savings to buy a capital asset, your savings are no longer savings, worse still, your asset is now subject of a capital gain. No, you cannot deduct the original cost of the asset and remit that to Thailand tax free. Any remittance of that asset would be viewed as a mix of capital and gain, until the entire amount was transferred. If you make that transfer in a year when you are not Thai tax resident, there is a good chance the gain will be free of tax. To be 100% safe, the capital gain should also be realised in a year when you are not tax resident in Thailand. All of that is under current rules, if the rules change to worldwide income, the timing of the CG and the remittance, becomes irrelevant.

Thanks John, I appreciate the information and your efforts on this topic.

Great! In which case, there is no need whatsoever for you to "rush out and get TIN's like good obedient willing tax payer", because whilst you may be tax resident, you don't meet the criteria.

John, perhaps you have posted this information elsewhere and I have missed it, but what is regarded as the latest/best covid vaccine available in Thailand, in the North if you happen to know that also?

Correct

Trust me when I say that I have never had a skewed perception of my importance to the Thai economy, nor that of expats in general. In fact, I've argued the same point that you are trying to argue here, more times than I care to remember. But you have to be very careful about how you present the argument. On a one to one comparison basis, expats on average outspend tourists but overall, the sum total of all tourists outspend the sum total of all expats.

The threshold to file a return for married people filing jointly is 220k. https://aseannow.com/topic/1324294-introduction-to-personal-income-tax-in-thailand/

I disagree. The average spend per tourist per trip in 2023 was just under 51k baht (3k baht per day) whilst the average duration of stay was 17 days, after which they are gone until next year. Meanwhile, this expat at least spends in excess of 75k per 30 days (2,500 baht [er day) but stays every day of the year. https://thailand.prd.go.th/en/content/category/detail/id/52/iid/266973#:~:text=The survey%2C which involved 30%2C054,averaging 23%2C518 baht per trip. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1154981/thailand-length-of-stay-of-hotel-guests-by-region-of-origin/

Yes, I believe so

Tax threshold and owing money to taxes are two different things. The filing threshold is 60k/120k, the point at which tax is owed is likely to be over 500 k for most retirees.

What's getting crazy is the assumption and hysteria by people who haven't done their homework and are assuming a worst case scenario without understanding exactly what the numbers are.

Yes indeed, I was not precise in what I wrote and merely presumed at this late stage in the game that most people would have understood that. I mean, many many people use the monthly income method to obtain visa extensions, most of those people are well over the limit already.

At what point will YOU consider it is mandatory? In Thai tax law, it is already past the point of being mandatory for many, thus far this year, because the law states a person will acquire a Thai TIN, within two months of exceeding the income threshold of 60k Baht. That means, well, you know what it means but perhaps you have a different slant on things.

Grandfathered of course, or more likely in your case, uncled or similar. 🙂