Hawaiian

Too little, too late. Protest won't end until Mubarak is gone. Won't be surprised if there is a shown down between the army and the security forces.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Happy to see you enjoyed yourselves.

Ms Nuntawan admitted that Thai restaurants in Europe had no choice but to buy vegetables exported from other countries such as Laos, Vietnam and the Netherlands.

OMG! So the overseas Thais will have to eat un-Thai vegetables from (yuck) Lao and from falang countries like Hollan'... (Is there any limit to racism? How are Asian vegetables and herbs from Laos different from the ones in Thailand, I wonder.)

How about: Icelanders - eat only Icelandic bananas...

My wife has no problem selling our kaffir lime leaves, lemon grass and galanga from my garden. Quite sure the Thai restaurant owners would rather buy fresh off the farm produce from a falang than imported stuff of questionable quality. They would also buy chilis and Thai basil from me if I could raise them. These vegetables don't do well at our elevation (3,900 ft/1170 meters).

My wife never solicits. It's the restaurant owners that keep coming back.

Yes, technically you are correct. Many traditional ethnic dishes would be very uninteresting without "imported" ingredients. Once a new vegetable or fruit becomes widely accepted, it is eventually incorporated into the local cuisine. It is given a local name and its origin usually forgotten as the host country considers it a native food.

Tomatoes and corn introduced by the Spanish are major staples in the Philippines. The potato is another example of an imported food that many countries claim as their own. The list is endless.

Spaniards got maize (corn) and tomatoes from the Americas. It was already a staple of native cooking for thousands of years, so it didn't originate from Spain either. A lot of vegetables actually came from the "new world" continent and were introduced to Europe.

I know that corn (maize), potatoes and tomatoes were New World plants. The Spanish had an established trade route

between Acapulco and Manila. They introduced these plants to the Philippines along with their religion and culture. As a history buff and former grower of exotic tropical fruits and plants I am quite familiar about the origin of what has been introduced elsewhere.

When searching for biological controls it is very important to know where to start. This is just one of the reasons to know where a plant originally evolved.

Although basil is grown in tropical Asian countries and itis know that it has been in culinary use for 5,00 years. it can hardly be calleda native of Thailand.Sweet basil is used mainly in Italyand the variety used locally is known as Thai basil, an entirely differentstrain. Eggplant, properly called aubergine, is a native of the sub-continent.Chili, the fruit from capsicum, comes from South Americaand was introduced to Europe and then these parts by thePortuguese. The notion that these are Thai vegetables is very wide of the mark.

The Nation is yet again the hub of misinformation, in thiscase understandably, since Thais have little regard for the truth – or reality .

Yes, technically you are correct. Many traditional ethnic dishes would be very uninteresting without "imported" ingredients. Once a new vegetable or fruit becomes widely accepted, it is eventually incorporated into the local cuisine. It is given a local name and its origin usually forgotten as the host country considers it a native food.

Tomatoes and corn introduced by the Spanish are major staples in the Philippines. The potato is another example of an imported food that many countries claim as their own. The list is endless.

Price controls = shortages.

Is the correct answer. Price controls simply do not work in a fiat currency system backed by nothing and dependent on inflation to survive.

To extend the equation further. Price controls = shortages = black markets.

Price controls = shortages.

I was going to say that the consumer was getting an added bonus of animal protein with their

veggies.

On a serious note, farmers throughout the world have enough problems let alone the inadvertent importation of invasive species. This is a problem that can usually be resolved

tracking down the source of the contaminated produce. The USDA does this all time, whether it involves domestic or international imports. For Thailand's sake I hope this is quickly settled.

Is there no end to these urban myths about the biggest catalyst in this world for war and strife ?

RELIGIONS.

The paedophile shielding creature should be stuffed and mounted as a reminder of how RELIGIONS distorts reality and aid and abet criminal acts against children as well as other beliefs and other races.

One of my aunt's who is trying to save the world admonished me for not attending Mass. I told her I've lost all

respect for the church I was baptized in. Mentioning that the Pope did nothing to stop the pedophilia by his priests, she replied that he did not know what was going on. My reply was, Then he shouldn't be charge." That shut her up for good because she never lectured me again.

The "Chinese way" is still far from abating the dissent in Tibet. Witness the recent violent demonstrations.

Worked pretty well in the US though, just ask the Indians (not the ones selling suits).

You are right about America. Besides overwhelming numbers, many other factors came into play. Getting involved in inter-tribal rivalry and broken treaties also helped to speed things up.

Bina, some of your friends may be the same individuals who experiences are described in a Mother Jones magazine article.

The Hawaii Free Press mentions the article and makes a connection to some extremely wealthy and high profile Americans who control Maui Land & Pineapple. It is the pineapple plantation on the island of Maui where Thai workers were employed through Global Horizons.

What I find very disturbing are the number of political and business leaders who are asking for leniency for the defendants in a different, but related case involving Global Horizons. Among them are two former governors of Hawaii.

The accused in this case have withdrawn their guilty pleas and the court has returned the $192,000 it awarded in damages. They claim the money it needed for defense costs in the new trial. One of Hawaii's leading defense lawyers has withdrawn from the case. Probably upset that his clients threw away the deal he negotiated.

While the owner's of the Maui plantation have not been accused, it seems like the airplane the court is trying to seize is involved with the transporting of workers to this farm.

Using a private plane makes it more difficult to document identification of passengers and easier to seize the workers' passports.

In the meantime, the delay will give the prosecution more time to obtain trafficking visas for potential witnesses. It will also provide more time to tie up any loose ends or cracks in the case.

[quote

The only way is the Chinese way, send enough people from outside to settle there so those criminals won't have no more local support.

I don't know where you get your information from . The people in the South of Thailand that are between Thailand and Malaysia do not see themselves as Thais, Some do not even speak Thai. Again the killings go on in the name of religion , Also there is outside interference involved,

This is what happens when lands are ceded by treaty with disregard for the local population. When the religion and

culture of the new settlers are completely alien to the ceded territory you can expect serious opposition. History shows that some form autonomy usually works best.

One example that I am familiar with is Mindanao where the semi-autonomy seems to be working. Of course there will always be radical elements that will not compromise. Like southern Thailand, Mindanao separatists are receiving support from outside the country.

The "Chinese way" is still far from abating the dissent in Tibet. Witness the recent violent demonstrations.

This is an illegal "human trafficking scam," it's not about "low wages," at all, just about misuse and fraud. It's good that these perps were caught. As punishment they should be forced to sign the same agreement that they made their workers sign and then have the "contract" be sold off to one of these fraudsters offshore in a country where such practices are allowed.

Each state in the US has a minimum wage law which is strictly enforced, so this is not about low wages. This scam is about workers being paid minimum wage but being coerced to pay most or all of these wages to their "masters" as fees that were not evident to the workers in the first place.

This is done to a lesser (and thus legal) extent with tens of thousands of RP (Republic of Philippine) nurses working in the US. Worldwide this is a serious problem and is human trafficking.

I'd venture a guess that over 90% of all "offers to work overseas" that are made in RP are fraudulent, though the most common fraud is "pay a fee and we'll find you a job overseas," and then no job is forthcoming.

About 15 years ago the brother of my ex-wife was hired in Manila to work as a nurse in Las Vegas. He and his girlfriend were such good workers that they were offered as much overtime as they could handle. Within a year he got his state nursing license. The couple were married and soon bought a house in a new subdivision. Before buying the house he mailed me a floor plan and pictures of the subdivision. He asked me why the developer was offering them a hefty discount. I told him because sometimes home builders are not to allowed to start the next increment until a certain percentage of the homes are sold. I advised them to buy. Happy to say that it was a smart move.

So not all Filipinos are taken for a ride.

The modern world likes to introduce their "packaged" goods to third world countries, but fails to educate their customers about how to properly dispose of the "packaging." In the days when most prepared food items were sold in banana leaves or decomposable woven baskets there wasn't such a problem. Now it's mounds of plastic bags and bottles and Styrofoam containers everywhere.

Asiawatcher has the right idea. Using a widely admired and respected personality to spread the word usually brings the best results.

Many of the package designs seen in Thailand are Asian "inspired", not western creations. Although Thailand is backward at times it is not third world. Thailand's mess was put there in large part by native Thais, not westerners. The first step of dealing with the problem is not to play the blame game, but to lay the responsibility with those that made the mess: Thais.

I was not referring to Thailand as a third world country, but referring to the worldwide problem of trash disposal

that has come about by the prolific use of plastic items. This started in West (as you call the modern world) because it was less labor intensive and was one way to save the trees. What I should have mentioned is the plastics industry in Thailand could be the catalyst for educating the public about how to tackle the trash pollution problem.

Agree with you that the Thais created the mess and and they alone are responsible to clean it up.

By the way, some might be offended by implying that the modern world is the West.

The modern world likes to introduce their "packaged" goods to third world countries, but fails to educate their customers about how to properly dispose of the "packaging." In the days when most prepared food items were sold in banana leaves or decomposable woven baskets there wasn't such a problem. Now it's mounds of plastic bags and bottles and Styrofoam containers everywhere.

Asiawatcher has the right idea. Using a widely admired and respected personality to spread the word usually brings the best results.

There is more to this case than mentioned in the news release. Among others, it involves one of the largest growers of produce in Hawaii. While I rather not pay more for my fresh veggies, I certainly don't want to see anyone being scammed. These farm workers went into debt based on the lies of the Thai labor recruiters. It is very doubtful that the head honchos of Global Horizons Manpower did not know that U.S. labor laws were being violated.

The U.S. Justice Department should prosecute this case to the full extent of the law.

Have to agree with you asiawatcher. My sentiments, exactly!

What label is used for someone who:

1. Believes in the gold standard or some form of it.

2. Was against the war in Iraq and thinks the U.S. should get out of Afghanistan now.

3. Thinks the U.S. should abolish all income and estate taxes and replace it with a sales tax.

4. Wants higher education in the U.S. to be free for all U.S. citizens.

5. Wants the U.S. federal government to get tough on illegal immigration.

6. Does not belong to any political party and thinks the two major parties in the U.S. are

both equally to blame for the sorry state of affair in America today.

Paranoid schizophrenic seems to be the popular diagnosis at present, but personally I don't think the entire story has been told YET.

Is that worse than calling oneself a proud liberal?

The UK has what amounts to a state religion. The Church of England is the officially established church in the UK with the reigning monarch as the Supreme Governor of the Church of England.

And England has a history of punishing non-believers by chopping off their heads or worse.

Some people will go to great lengths to express their political beliefs.

http://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=25400862

What label is used for someone who:

1. Believes in the gold standard or some form of it.

2. Was against the war in Iraq and thinks the U.S. should get out of Afghanistan now.

3. Thinks the U.S. should abolish all income and estate taxes and replace it with a sales tax.

4. Wants higher education in the U.S. to be free for all U.S. citizens.

5. Wants the U.S. federal government to get tough on illegal immigration.

6. Does not belong to any political party and thinks the two major parties in the U.S. are

both equally to blame for the sorry state of affair in America today.

I do not know why the thread has veered off onto a tangent about the Congresswoman's denomination. It is only a matter of time before someone trots out the Nürnberger Gesetze and the thread lurches in the direction of measuring the poor woman's nose. it is a creepy shift and one that is discomforting.

I agree, religion has nothing to do with the OP; sorry for my contribution which was just a mere question, not a discussion about the Congresswoman's religion since I never thought about it until another member brought it up.

LaoPo

My father was a Quaker and my mother was Catholic. I was baptized in the Catholic Church and attended a Catholic school for 12 years. Being a free thinker I always questioned the teachings of the Catholic Church. I really gave my religion instructors a hard time when they skirted around controversial issues. I soon realized that it was not only my church, but every major world religion was guilty of crimes against humanity.

Today I am an agnostic, but respect peoples religious beliefs as long as they keep them to themselves. I believe that religion has no place in politics and fear any country that has an official state religion.

While not a fan of Obama, I think he did what was expected of him in his official capacity as President of the U.S.

So why are some posters making an issue about the victims' religious beliefs? Totally inappropriate comments like these should be kept to themselves.

I have a shop built computer and get super fast service with the vendor sometimes showing up within hours of my phone call. The last time I called him on a Saturday afternoon. He picked up the computer Sunday morning and returned it Sunday afternoon. Same thing with our auto mechanic. Then again this is a rural community where poor service will lose you most of your customers.

Right wing! Left wing! Liberal! Conservative! When anyone is given one of those labels

they become targets for fanatical extremists. Let's hope that this tragic incident is not the beginning of a trend.

When all is said and done, if you're seeking advice from total strangers on an anonymous internet forum, many of whom do nothing but sit in a room all day in front of a PC, then you need a lot more help than you think, why anyone would ask advice on life changing situations here is beyond belief, and to think anyone would actually take any advice is frightening.

Anyone who has a post count incredibly high don't go out much, simple as that, so what do they really know ?

Not necessarily true. Some forum members are experts in their chosen careers and have a wealth of knowledge to share. Others have personal experiences which also provide useful information. And then there are those who choose to disparage these posters that make the forum such a valuable resource.

Over the years I have been able sort out the kooks from the nice guys. And I would like to think that I have provided some worthwhile information, too. For me it is rewarding when someone PM's me for more info or thanking me for the help.

Berkshire'

I can't say anything bad about Hawaii. Love the place. But simply put, it's just an expensive place to live. Everything from food, to entertainment, to housing, to gas....you name it. If you don't live in Honolulu, then you must live in the sticks. Big Island? Kona is very much like Honolulu. Lahaina, Maui? Ditto. There are always trade-offs and while the city offers much more, the traffic and congestion can be overwhelming. I had considered Honolulu and Hilo one point in my life. But Thailand still wins hands-down. By the way, how are the locals treating haoles these days?

The mainland haoles are buying up everything in sight and driving up prices. Kona and Lahaina have been transformed into gated communities cloned much like those in Southern Cal. We live just outside Hawaii Volcanoes National Park where most of the haoles have blended in and are an asset to the community. They have joined with the locals in developing a community center which offers all sorts of activities for everyone including the Thai women who sell their food and buy their vegetables at the farmer's market.

During the winter months when the temperature dips down into the 40's and 50's is when we go to Thailand. I had intentions of living in Thailand until they started screwing around with the immigration rules. At my age I need a more stable environment.