shochu

Many need to be thai-trained (broken-in)!

Imagine if you will you are a thai and you are with a loved one - be it a wife, daughter, brother, sister, son, husband, friend, lover, etc. and you see a farang checking out your loved one with - $$$ - in his eyes. How would you feel?

Looking is fine - BUT - don't stare - at a girl, women, mother, wife when they are with someone - it's just plain rude.

When this ridiculous superiority that they come with just because they were born somewhere developed allows them to have an advantage should not be a reason to disregard civility. Or perhaps it is asking too much from luddites.

Imagine this happeneing every time they venture out from their homes.

I am not surprised the sentiment of late.

It can only get worse as more and more people retire and vacation in LOS.

But there are some fine people here too!

I would be all too happy if the baht hits higher than 20-1 and the prices here double. It would still be a great place to visit and live part time. And we would lose a lot of the problem.

Hopefully this sentiment is now a sign of a recognition of a problem and change is in the wings.

One consideration you have overlooked is that in the past wealthy families sent their kids overseas. Now, many middle class families send their kids overseas for an education with their only savings and expect their kids will come and support them - an investment if you will.

I don't know if this is a consideration or not. You really need to talk to her and clarify many things.

But, i wouldn't give up your whole life for something unless it is a sure, or at least an almost sure thing.

Relationships in asia begin with love in high school and college. Then they quickly progress to a somewhat (depending on each individual) a calculated arrangement. We can say financial here if you want to. There are no misunderstandings of the roles people play here. You are the main provider and she the main controller of the house and all things regarding family such as kids, education, etc. The relationship can quickly turn sour once those roles become strained. That is not to say there is no love in the relationship. Just that it is more clear cut along with the emotional. Some good relationships will work through rough times and others will not. (Just like anywhere else - except money and responsibility exacts a much heavier burden here than in other - western nations). So, the question is which is yours? Difficult to tell in such a short time.

She sounds wonderful - considering she offered to help you in the future, but things also change, sometimes for the better, and the worse.

You could stretch the money to last 2 years if need be. Just adapt to a more thai lifestyle.

I am sure someone who gives Billions to charity needs to sell a house to ride it out.

Keep reacting to the past, the same reason your engineers are having problems.

China seems to of upset the markets in asia and protectionist corrupt countries are now full of useless excuses.

Go back to outhouses and candles if you like, you seem to not remember the past to well,

where the poor was at your every whim that you could exploit. Not so easy now that there

is more choices than to be subservants and second class ( mia nois) to the priviledged corrupt.

Then again you probably had a sheltered life and had a means to education that 99% of

Thais did not have. Is this the type of living you are referring your engineers could afford in the past.

Lets all be thankful someone came for the advancement of the poor in Thailand because if they would of had to relie on the engineers and leaders of the past they would still be squating in rice fields or 3rd and 4th wife of a corrupt educated thai.

Good engineers who apply themselves and can think on their own and keep up with advancements are still in dire need and make alot of money. You didn't think that a piece of paper was a free ride did you.

Yeah the good old days!!! Right

Japan really needs thai engineers.

I don't understand your post - I hope you don't think I was knocking thailand. Quite the opposite.

In regards to Warren Buffet - yes he donated much money as did Gates - but why do you think that was. Well one explanation is that their worht is only paper and when, not if, the market crashes all their wealth will go with it. Hence, here they look like great humanitarians and will go down in history as major philantropists. But, what the news doesn't say is how they have been selling under the radar and have more than enough wealth amassed in real money - yes it exists. Besides giving money away is a good business move on the books too.

And where did they give their money too. An organization that promotes population reduction.

Oh, in case you didn't understand, I said his partner of - i think 17/18 years is moving/runiing to china.

I would like to see thaialnd get back to basics and think more internally as they have a great nation with a great culture and people. A nation can only achieve what its people have the capability to do. When I look at malaysia, which i have talked about before, i see some great workers, but they are being relegated to second class citizens. In thailand, i see a great workforce in the educated and hard working (not all, but still) people, particluarly in the urban areas. The thais have accepted other people - chinese - and allow them to be on par with them - and this thinking and the hard work it can produce is one reason i have high hopes for thailand and their country.

We are well on the way to a two class society whether we like it or not. Back to the days of the landowners and serfs - or more appropriately refered to by them as sheeple. Except now the landowners are huge corporations. We are in the middle of the greatest wealth tranfer from west to east and from everyone to the ruling class.

Mr. Dave, and yes gold is great. I managed to get in at the bottom and I think of it as a way of beating inflation, and use it as a forced savings plan. It's nice to know people are on the same page!

Agree with jbsears.

Have tried many tailors and the quality is not very good. I wear a suit everyday and thus buy many suits every year and I can buy a designer, usually italian or japanese on sale for about $500 and it is far better than anything you can get in thailand custom. I usually buy things on sale at the end of the season which means thinking a bit ahead. I also find that unless you have an unusual build, off the rack designer suits with some alterations are way better than something made by hand by someone getting paid almost nothing. All the tailors, or most use the same factories. What they do is do a good job on the first or second and get progressively worse. The biggest problem is that when you lok at a material, no matter how nice, it is not always right for some cuts and thus these tailors don't take this into account. When soemthing is being offered by a designer label, they know their fabrics and what they are cable of and the cuts that work best for the materials.

Tokyo and Seoul are especially good for buying at end of season as they have amazing deals for less than cost.

Thailand down? Sure, it's the slow season and the world economy is slowing down too. Don't look to china and vietnam as examples. Right now there is a huge building binge going on because of the excess currency - did i say currency - i meant monopoly money floating around looking for a home thanks to the dollars and to a certain point yen. What most of you won't see in headlines, but in tiny print, and only sometimes if you look for it, is that there are massive layoffs and they have been happening for a few years now. It will only get worse. Not only that, but every major company is looking for a way to default - did i say default - i meant cut off their pension obligations as will nations eventually. Or it will all get deflated away.

I love it when people say - my home has appreciated 50% in the past couple of years. Well that's one way of looking at it. But here is another. Perhaps, this is an indicator of your currency - did I say currency - i meant fiat/funny money losing buying power, and wages staying flat.

A generation ago - during our parents time - an engineer could buy a lovely home for a years salary. Now the same engineer has to work over 10 years to buy the same house. So in effect we only have the buying power of less than 10%. So the powers that be have deluded us, well most of us into believing we have all this evergrowing wealth to spend, spend, spend so what do we do - spend, spend, spend! Where does that leave us. With homes so expensive nobody can afford them on the salaries most of us get. And things just keep getting more and more expensive. Now multiply this phenomenon - did i say phenomenon, i meant rape/pillage of the working class for the typical thai person, who not only has to put up with all this but more in the way of the foreigner coming and artifically making everything more expensive by driving up all things such as services and property and so on.

A nation has to produce things to get wealthy. Services don't cut it for a developing nation. Services are fine if your japan with huge savings - well at least for the aged - don't know what will happen to their younger generation - but that's another problem.

What i beleive the thai gov't is attempting to pursue with their subsistance economy is to get back to basics and to teach people that spending money on unnecessary things such as phones every few months with gadgets we don;t need are not the way forward. I for one applaud this approach since it will be the only way to move ahead in the future.

Where is thailand headed. A definite slowdown for sure - but not the end of the world. In the long term - it will be fine.

Japan is attempting to make thialand the detroit of asia and you can bet if it works - others will follow. We need to stop reacting to every little hiccup in the road and focus on the long term. If little hiccups affect you -then time to move on - but where?

I'm long on thailand and so are others i have talked to. I am very short on the U.S. It is a little worrying that the wizard of omaha's partners of many years is selling his home in new york to as he put it - not verbatim - to ride it out - or in my words to hide out - the storm in china of all places. (A big strong communist army to protect him). What is he so worried about that he doesn't want to be around when the shit hits the fan - perhaps sometime next year! Could it be the concentration camps - did i say concetration - I meant detention camps built around the U.S. by who other than cheney's former company. I left a good job in the U.S. just before 911 because I had accurately predicted the IT meltdown. But this was mitigated by the powers that be and now we have one of the scariest and much much bigger than pre-depression bubbles ever in the history of the financial world upon us. Will this too have the air slowly released into another bubble, or will this be the one. I don't know. The world finacial market is now too big for anyone whether gov't, major financial institutions working together to control. They can only try to guide it or delay it - but it doesn't always work.

Yes - to reiterate - things will get (a little/a lot ) worse before they get better!

Am I full of hot air - I sure hope so - otherwise...

But - ###### - my accuracy thus far says otherwise.

BAF - a good reading and very accurate not only for thailand but for most of asia when it comes to westerners marrying asians.

Dr. Naam,

I can see you didn't understand the just of my arguement. You will need to read more into what I wrote.

Why do people spend $40, 000 on a car for the priviledge of driving it for a few years, then complain about a property that loses some value?

It is always the idiot who jumps to conclusions on reading something that is taken as common, but fails to see the larger picture!

Dont' invest more in LOs than you can afford to lose?

I laugh whenever I read this. Why? Because this could be true of any investment that was made in haste.

If one follows the law and buys according to things allowed by law - then how does one lose their investment?

Rules constantly changing? Please - things are being made more clear because of past indiscretions.

The golden rule to property investment is buy low and sell high if your intent is to make a profit. A recent survey done by a professor on property investments in the U.S. over a couple of hundred years found that on an average property prices averaged only a less than 1% increase over this time. I believe this took into consideration the value of the property price calculated over time to include infaltion. But I'm guessing from the wording this does not include property taxes, maintenance, etc. (What does this mean. It was probably a loss overall to own. Properties are a huge hassel to maintain and require constant upkeep. In LOS where there is so much humididty, it requires much more.) Buy low and sell high during cycles. This is where people always make the money in property. And the most important rule - location, location, location - if profit is the motive.

If it is a place to live in, then it really doesn't matter. Just buy what you want and only you can calculate the price of happiness. Why do some people spend a fortune on a paniting and others see it as junk. Because they can afford to, or this is the price they have placed on their enjoyment of the work or art.

Follow others advice and just rent, but since you have a wife it may make sense to buy if you see something you like.

Again, the biggest source of fodder on this site is a result of acting on emotion - starting with marrying a thai. If you trust her, buy property, if you don't buy a condo.

Most businesses fail - something like 8/9 out of ten - anywhere.

Many people have lost their shirts because they were fuled by emotion, not business acumen.

PLEASE - lets give the - Dont' invest more in LOS more than you can you can afford to lose? - a rest. If you lost then you didn't do your homework or you were thinking with the brain between the legs. Of course this is not in every case, as there are probably people who were legitimately swindled, but alas, this can happen anywhere.

Terry offers good advice. Take it!

Some very wise words from Casanundra. This can only come from true life experiences. When I was young I used to think things my father or others said to me were nonsense and did not cater to me. As I have matured and grown older, I now know how wisdom can only come with age and experiences - ususally learned from making mistakes.

A very wise man - a very wealthy man - once said to me "Work hard now and enjoy life later, or enjoy life now and work hard later." I'm sure this is a familiar saying many have heard.

I am not much older than you, and I could easily retire now in LOS, or get a job there as an expat. I put in the time - more than 8 years in uni with the possibility to work in many countries. And I still feel the need to secure a future as one never knows what is around the corner. And I still feel the need to upgrade my skills and I am always reading or doing something to learn more to be able to stay ahead of the game. A game - yes - but you have to play unless you want to drop out. Trust me, you don't want to drop out just yet. I have travelled extensively and still continue to travel about a 1/3 of the year living out of hotels and I see and meet many people trying to live what you are speaking of. The beginning may be all fun and games but as time goes on - I see people struggling to do something that I would not even blink at like staying in a nice hotel or having a good night out. Sure it's a rat race and everyone dreams about a nice LOS lifestyle - but it comes with a price. Are you willing to pay the price? Loz talks a good game but it's your life - treat it as such. Take everything here and use it only as it suits you, and ultimately make a decision based on your needs and what you want - not what others say. People too often see things in a romantic light because they are only scratching the surface - but when they dig deeper it reveals the truth.

Take a year or two off like some have said and get it out of your system. But think about the future - and the possbile future of your future family. BUT make sure you have other options (a backup plan).

I hope I have not discouraged you - but I have seen too many people come to LOS and try to spend time there and in the end I see many people doing whatever they can to try and stay just a wee bit longer even if it meant alienating family and friends. One friend sent postcards to all his friends asking for money after his family cut him off - very sad!

Anyways good luck whatever you choose and hope you can make things work for you!

Vacations are enjoyable because they are contrasted against our everyday lives, but when our lives become a vacation everyday, then what is there to look forward to?

Hard work always pays off!

I think I should reply to try and qualify what i have said.

I think it is a matter of semantics regarding, large and largest, and concentration and just pure numbers.

Patty is probably the most visible largest concentration of this enterainment. It is especially pronounced because everyone knows who the players are. In Japan, one never knows who the players are - whether it is the attractive young women carry a LV bag, or the older women who looks like a house wife, or the the girl in a school unifrom. In terms of concentration in a visible form - then patty wins hands down. If it is in a non-vivible form - then tokyo wins. In terms of pure numbers - it is estimated that about 1 in 10 or more of the female population from the teens to the mid-thirties are directly or indirectly involved. Remember, tokyo is 30 million including the suburbs. what people forget is that tokyo stats never really consider the whole of tokyo. Now in a country of 120 million - do the math. These numbers are similar for korea. Have you ever been to their districts. It makes patty look like amateur hour. yet you would never know where they were unless you lived in the city and knew the city well.

In terms of scale, India and China win hands down. There are many web sites in japanese where one can book an appointment with their favourite player. Some of these players make more than many CEO's. It is not uncommon for some of these popular players to be driving around in a maserati, and living in a multi-million dollar central tokyo apt. Some of these gilrs are celebrities and visible in mainstream media - like Nao. It is a totally different playing field - so difficult to do direct comparisions.

Getting back to Thailand and the pros and cons about living there. Tilokarat's post was very informative. To add to this, I would like to say that thailand as a whole is really a free - or freer place to live than many countries. In Japan, or Korea and China and many other countries - if you have lived in any of these places - you would be happy with thailand. These three countires are more rigid and offer much more resistance to foreigners than thailand does. Remember, thailand is more than the main tourist places. Away from these places, it is actually an easy life compared to other places. I never get ripped off, or hassled and I am treated like any other person, thai or not. I have travelled extensively and still do, and thailand wins hands down when you add everything up. Sure there are some cons, but hey it's the whole package that makes it attrative. The new rules do not bother me in the least because I live my life according to the rules of wherever I am. They are now much clearer. Who cares if things close at 2AM. It's actually a good thing because it gets me home so I can have a good day the following day. Where I live, I can drink all night - but I never do because I am not into it anymore. And the best reason of course is cost. Sure it's creeping up, but compared to where I live now - a real blessing. It could go up much more and it would still be great.

Mods - appologize as I am not sure if the first part of this is allowable or not - just trying to provide some data to back up others things already mentioned earlier - which is part of the argument for thailand.

Go to any major area - such as shinjuku and walk into a place that looks like a store - there will be many such stores - and there will be hundreds of photos of young girls a phone call away. It is more discreet and not in your face - but everywhere.

Many buildings that look like typical office building will also house entertainment.

It is only for the Japanese and very pricey - and this is why you would not know about it.

Attitude is everything, especially in asia. Asians are particularly adept at reading faces and feeling aura. A positive person will do well here. And vice versa.

It appears some of us do not understand anything about the country they inhabit. If you understood the concept of face, then this would explain a lot of your unfortunate circumstances.

Please do not bring your baggage to a country that does not understand it. If you are gonna live in a country, you have to live as the locals do.

Prostitution is rampant everywhere. In fact, Japan has a larger prostitution environemnt than thailand does. If you look for it, or you live near it, then it will be in your face. If you don't frequent it or its surrounds, then it is a non-issue. I find people who gloat on about it are wallowing in it. Move away from it if it bothers you so much.

There is much more freedom in thailand than many other countries. what has been happening as of late is the gov't trying to make clearer the nature of thier status because it has been abused. as well, if you look at the investment picture in thialand, foreigners own a heck of a lot of the main toursit destinations. I think it is saying a lot of how understanding they actually are. If there has been a backlash, then it is because of the farangs who are in your face. I was there with my japanese girlfriend and I could not believe the rudeness of many expats who were checking out my girlfriend with no regard for me. I feel sorry for many of the expats with thai wives as they also have to go through this on a daily basis. Not every girl in thailand is a part of the nightlife - show some repsect and do not treat them as such. Respect others and others will respect you.

On a final note for the needy. Bali is a good destination as they have the kuta boys who are adept at servicing your needs. And if you need more, then jamaica is a good option.

It depends on the individual.

I could never retire, only becuase I like to keep busy. I may change jobs, but i will never retire.

In terms of people who are relying on pensions, I would advise extreme caution. We are on the verge of a huge finacial collapse and most gov't's will not be able to meet their pension obligations. All currencies - fiat money -are on the verge of being inflated to the point of being worthless.

Keep busy either in fun, work, or love.

I will try to add to things already discussed.

I like the PL very much and almost chose it as a place to make a second home. There are some very positive things about it that i really like. One, it is off the beaten path. A lot less tourists, which means less toursit oriented locals and all the associated stuff that comes with it. If you want to just get away and be by yourself - you can do it in the PL.

If you go into the mountains - northern luzon - you can find some amazing places where there are almost no expats and the people are amazingly nice and I guess where you experience the real filipinos who have not been tainted with trying to chase the dollar or have been exposed to the harder aspects of urban life. The few expats I did see there appeared to really enjoy their life - read - knew they had a good thing. Some had businesses where they were making a good buck - actually making really good money. They of course had to marry a local - not any filipina - but a local girl from the area - as the locals there will not sell land to people not from the area. the place was beautiful, and crime free. Everyone here knows everyone. It was actually a paradise from my view point - except - in order for me to make it a second home - I would have had to marry a local girl. You can rent a regualr size house with yard for a hundred bucks a month. All this info was from a local girl living there.

Another place I really liked was near dumaguette - about 20 minutes to the interior - can't remember the name. I inquired about it and an expat told me that "ya it's beautiful - but if you have a family - no way. I was sleeping one night and a guy crawled into my house and tried to attack my wife with me sleeping beside her."

The local people are very friendly and very warm hearted. It is the city folk and the people who deal with tourists that can be abrasive. And of course there are also a lot of just plain hoods. the main reason I did not choose the PL was the crime and safety reasons. Although I had no problems, I was always on guard. I bought a nice watch and i was staying in a nice hotel, but I was advised not to wear it out in cebu by the staff. At another hotel about 50 meters of a dark patch from the scene I was told by the hotel to take a taxi. Imagine not safe to walk 50 meters from my hotel in the evening.

The upper part of cebu is quite nice and looks like any westernized city with many strip malls. The lower part of cebu is a hel_l hole - almost as bad a jakarta. I think if you live in the upper area then you could have a pleasant life. There is everything you could want in the all purpose shopping mall. Except that it seems all you do is spend time in that mall whenever you want or need something.

Manila is fine if you live in the expat area where there are many shopping malls and creature comforts.

The great thing about the phillipines are the variety of islands, the mountains, amazing coffee and the people - who are among the warmest around. They are are very mariage minded and family oriented people - but if you marry a local, it is worse than say a thai in terms of what the locals will expect you to do for their families. They have a good nightlife as well, with great live bands. But the live bands tend to be mostly cover bands - whereas in Thailand you can see great bands singing their own good music.

The main reason against the PL is the crime, pollution and utter chaos in most of their cities and getting around in the city. As well, the variety of things available is limited. For example, there are no good book stores like thailand has. Bangkok has great bookstores and seems to have every possible store. Whenever I am in th PL I tend to eat mostly japanese as it is cheap and readily available and not laden in oil and it offers some forms of veggies. The Pl seemed to have a predominantly older expat community, whereas thailand is more mixed.

From my perspective, everything seems more expensive in the PL, except housing away from the urban centers. I was told you could buy land and build a house for about U.S. $10,000.00.

I enjoy going to the Pl for a change and to veg on an island, but long term is out of the question. As mentioned earlier, I could not deal with the food for long and it seems everytime I go there, I look forward to going home, whereas I don't when I'm in thailand.

And a final note - japan and china have ramped up investments big time in thailand, as are the middle east states. They are long on thailand. It seems the big boys are moving in. Japan used to have a large presense in the Pl but they have been withdrawing as is evident with their tourist numbers.

And regarding thailand. I don't think they are anti-farang as has been said here many times. They are just trying to target a different class of citizens - primarily those that can support themselves and help support thailand. This is not elitism. Look at most westerm countries - for example Canada - they only allow in professionals with a large bank account that can contribute to the economy. And in recent news - Isaan is trying to promote their province among the expat community by asking them to invest in and promote the province to their buddies. this does not sound anti-farang to me!

Kismet,

Your posts are very informative and greatly appreciated by some of us. It is always good to learn more about a country/region. My comments are how I see things and i always appreciate other peoples thoughts and perspectives. Soemtimes one has to post their views, to get a dialogue going to expound on a subject. This forum is very useful as a tool to gather information and to better understand things which we do not.

Regarding ease of doing business - I think it depends on what kind of business one is doing. The statements I have made are my thoughts regarding my interests - and - Thailand is far better for doing business - for me. I am in fact betting my money, not all of it, but a part of it on it. I have yet to make a bad investment. But, then again there is the possibility for a first time. Time will tell.

Malaysia is in fact losing much of their manufacturing to vietnam as we speak. The vietnamese are better, faster, smarter and most improtant work hard. The real engine of growth for ML has always been it natural resources of which oil plays a large part. Have you ever gone to the KLCC to hear the national ML orchestra. It is made up of europeans and a few chinese malay. Dr. M built his airport out in the boondocks thinking KL would grow out to the airport within ten years and we are now coming up on the ten years. Fly through the airport and it feels empty. Their national car the proton is a disaster. There is just as much, if not more corruction in ML. A great country to retire in, but unstable politics, and the possibility for extreme radical islam, a multi-ethnic population that only tolerates each other, and without much of a future when their natural resources dwindle.

And it depends on the company one keeps when it comes to communication. The people I deal with and hang around with are educated and all speak fluent english. And I find that many thais in bangkok speak enough to commuunicate.

have a nice day, or at least try to!

BKKGIRL95's BF

I never knew it was so bad. I did see some of it near where my friend was staying west of Bangsar, west of where the MRT runs up, but I never felt threatened by it, but then again I never walked by at night.

THAILIBAN

What I said earlier about Malaysia was probably a bit unfair. I know many people who love malaysia. I think if you are retired, or if you have a good group of friends, then Malaysia is a great place to be. And if you like golf, and watching sports on the telly. Unfortunately for me, I love art and going to galleries, watching good foreign movies, which I can do in BKK whenever I'm there. Just saw Nadou SouSou, and The LIves of Others. I could never do this in KL. I think what it boils down to is that KL is a small city , like an extended suburb to me, whereas BKK is a large international city, where I can see good movies, experience good culture and do many other things. (Not saying that ML has no culture, there just seems to be more in TH in my opinion) When I was in KL, all we ever did was go to one of the Finnegans and drink and talk, or watch sports. Great if that's what your into. I felt safe and. The only thing that irriated me was trying to get taxis.

And talking about RELIGON - I think this is becoming a bigger issue than we realize. Just read an article in the current issue of TIME mag and it was talking about how Indonesia was moving away from secularism and becoming very strict, and also mentioned Malaysia moving this way too. This is a crtitical time in both these countries directions and they are both at a tipping point. The can either move back to a more moderate form, or they will go extreme. To me this is a big issue in where I choose to live, along with the other things already mentioned.

I actually looked at Indonesia because this was the one country that I felt was really still primordial in feeling. It had a romantic feel to it when you were out in the countryside looking off at the distance at a smoldering volcano. It had all the right ingredients such as a developing nation with abundant labor, abundant natural resources, etc. and many possibilities. BUT, there were too many buts, the biggest one being political instability of whcih religion was a major part.

Philippines was also a consideration, but just too dangerous and they seem stuck in perpetual mud so to speak. I don't know what catholism has done to the people there, but it isn't good.

No matter how we look at it RELIGION plays a big part in developing countires and I personally love the Buddhist nature of Thailand.

The world is on the verge of rebalancing and there will be extreme shocks to the system. Not just fincancial. Western economies have to come down, developing ones will move up to meet somehwere at an equilibrium. Thailand is my bet. I don't plan on staying here full time. But I do plan to invest here. I think I will win in the long run, even if I suffer in the short. We all have to take chances. I will put my money here. Or at least some of it. I'm hedging my bets.

In the end, Thailand is the place to be. Great city, good country and they have all the things that matter. Irregardless of what you think about their politics, they are still under this military rule much freer than say China or Singapore. Have been to both and I could not live in either. Give the country time - every country goes through pangs and this is a rite of passage they too must go through. Sure it's not perfect, but then if home was perfect you wouldn't be in, or coming to Thaliand.

Cheers

Interesting discusion so far.

Would like to add my 2 bits and also ask a question.

I have been to KL many times and have a very good close friend living and working there who is half malay-british. From his and others comments there, yes there is much discrimination in ML and a lot of resentment from each race at each other. The chinese and Indians are very hard working and the chinese are the prime drivers of the economy. The Indians do their part. The malays are generally - how shall I say it - easy going and not too interested in getting things done. There is a lot of bad energy below the surface. Definitely not the harmonious society the gov't portrays. The expats generally have a good time there - they are on the high end of the chain and come and go with much freedom and much celebrity. They are a sought after commodity there among all the races. There does not seem to be too much mixing among the races except among the expats and the orignal residents whether they be chinese, half, indians and last malays.

Thailand on the other hand seems to have integrated much more in terms of races among the locals than ML has. For instance among the large chinese population, many have married into the local population although there are some chinese families that are only chinese. But these families have adopted the thai names and the thai ways in many forms, perhaps not all.

I think the expats are getting less and less respect as every year goes by in thailand. If you are asian, then thailand does not treat you any differently. They think of you as asian or farang and I think this has been becoming more and more evident as of late. There seems to be a noticeable feeling in the air that thailand wants a different kind of tourist visiting. Perhaps part of this has to do with the way asians tend to be more low key in their activities, and the expats that do frequent the nightlife, much more blatant.

I found a lot of resentment among the locals in ML when I speak to them, whereas in Thaliand, I wonder - and thus ask the

question - how are the chinese perceived in thailand?

I ask this because I get the feeling that there is much harmony here, more so than in ML, but at the same time, I get the feeling that there is some stuff hididen behind the scenes more than one can get at. For instance, i finally heard soem thai people say how fustrated they were at having to do things for royalty , such as when any of them drives somewhere and all the traffic is diverted. And at times I see there does seem to be a hugely disproportionate amount of public activity benefitting those who are thai-chinese. Another example was the schools I visited recently seem to have a very high protion who looked to have some chinese in the mix. With this much power in their hands, there must be soem resentment. Perhaps it is the thai way to not complain publicly that is the difference.

Much of the south asian countries have had race riots except for thailand from what i understand. is it just simmering below the surface, or is this just a part of the thainess that many people like?

And a final note - I have thought about a second home for quite some time and Malaysia was a consideration and I have decided against it because of the race relations, the problems my firends have in getting things done there - red tape if you are not 100% malay and their religion. And the fact that every time I go there to visit friends, I'm bored and can't wait to leave, and this has nothing to do with the nightlife. And, KL does not seem to be a main destination and thus more difficult to get to and do busniess with.

I have bought a place in bangkok and am now looking at starting a second business with local partners -- yes I have doem plenty of research -- and no I do not want to be warned about this -- it is not in the nightlife area.

Dear BAF,

When you learn to formulate a discussion, then maybe this discussion would/could progress to some enlightenment.

What is clear is you have a thought and no amout of discourse will affect IT.

May you live your life to your full content with your many various degrees which have taught you to make statments based not on research from a broad spectrum , but on your own vast/broad experiences whcih I'm sure include the exoerience of every office in the city of angels.

Perhaos your world is just that - your world - as punters frequent gogo bars, one can only wonder where your life hangs.

have a nice one

I think it is very irresposible to make such broad statements.

Rote learning has been acknolwedged to be very positive in certain aspects - such as math and engineering classes. IIT in india is the premier school for tech in the world - students who can not get in can easily get into MIT in the U.S. Many north american engineering students go to europe and fail because their standards are so far behind them. Also many local kids who can not get into chula or the other top schools vcan easily get into top programs abroad and if they have the money do so. Yes some will get good jobs when they come back

I just finished touring architecture depts in bangkok and can tell you that the students work very hard and know their stuff and can compete with the students at harvard or AA in London.

one more thing,

make sure the name of the remitting bank account and the name of the condo puchaser is the same

okay,

first, to open a bank account.

went to many banks and they all said no. they said to go to your counsulate and get a letter verifying who you are - this will do.

went to embassy and paid the 1600bt and they gave me a letter, went downstairs to the bangkok bank and they happily opended a bank account using the counsulate as my home address.

second, regarding the remittances.

i went in and talked to a bank official who phoned the man in charge of issuing the document at the main bangkok bank branch and he said that any amount of transfer is okay, and that i could also transfer in thai baht from overseas as this is cheaper for me. all that matters is that the money comes from overseas and that i keep all copies of the remittance if the transfer is less than $20,000U.S. and show them when I come in. he wil issue the document to me then.

also, it is very important that the wording be right and exact - such as -

To Purchase A Condominium Unit No. XXXX (name of condo) Condominium.

this is mainly for the officials down at the land office.

And yes - got the hong kong tickets too!

I just went to see them yesterday at the site.

I am quite happy that they have started work already clearing the land and there is a decent model house building/sales office.

Yes - I am getting air-con. There were two in each model unit and she said it comes with one.

Yes - the price is right!

Some interesting comments and some helpful ones too.

I think the point of buying into these mid-range condo's is not to make money, but more for a comfort/convenience thing. Also with the new zoning laws out to make way for better living quality, I think these new developments will be the new thing to get into. But again - time will tell.

Yes, I could have bought a cheaper, and quite possible a bigger place with a better location, but I would also have been buying an old, worn place. I like the idea of new and clean, even if it is temporary. I think if you study markets and know about developments in the world - these are safe bets in that the world is shifting - developing countries will be moving up and the developed countries can only come down, so I am not really worried about losing out or not being able to sell. The Thai baht will eventually move up in the long run and western currencies will come down so even if I sell cheaper than I bought, in the long run, if I take the money out of the country I will be ahead, and on a second point I can only see prices moving up in the long run. Again the key here is location and I actually really like the idea of being away from the downtown area overloooking a river. My only concern is how easy or difficult it will be to get transport from the condo to the BTS.

Also, the reason I have not looked at the loft and such projects is, as I said earlier, this is a place for me to stay when i'm in town, my hotel room, but my very own hotel room, so I am not concerned about the size - less cleaning area the better. I live in a huge and expensive asian city and this condo would be a dream to live in. The lofts I belieive start at over 4million baht. If I were living in bangkok - yes, but I do not so - no.

1)Does anybody have any info on Supalai or LPN and their developments?

2)And does anybody know where the new subway/BTS links will be?

And,

1km

3) Did you get air-con included in your purchase or did anyone else?

This project is not that bad - this is why I bought in. And I do not think it is that cheap - just geared towards the local Thais as opposed to the expats, so it is much cheaper. If you look at what you get compared to the other more expensive projects, I think they are a good bargain if everything pans out as they say. A good bargain for locals so a much greater bargain for foreigners.

It overlooks a river, is away from all the craziness, but close to the central area and each two buildings comes with a nice long pool in the middle. What is really nice about this project is the design of the entire site and each individual one bed apt. I am not too keen on the studio's as I fel they have erred in their layout scheme, otherwise I would have bought one of them instead and saved $8,000US. Design matters to me and I believe the people who are buying in. The overall design is nice , but like I said, will have to wait and see the finished product.

They have other projects on the go, one closer to the central area (Asok and New Pechburi), but in a much more crowded area and a bit more expensive. The other further out past Chatuchuk but cheaper.

Check it out at:

www.aspace.co.th

RE: the air con - it said in an advertising they woud be included - perhaps they are trying to reneg on me because I do not live in Thailand, I don't really know. It is possible they are included and are just trying to save money where they can.

If anyone can offer more insight into this company and or these new projects I and I think others would be happy to hear more.

Thanks

Thanks for the reply guys. I think you guys have confirmed my thoughts about the project and things in general in Thailand. I am not too worried about this project - will just wait and see how things pan out and will take it from there. Will try and get my air-con.

This project seems a good jaunt from the BTS. More than I expected. Hope there is good service back and forth from Sukhumvit via tuk tuk.

"I have heard expats say they have come to their place to find someone was living there while they were in their home country. "

This comment was from one of the Thai forums - possibly this forum - from an expat married to a Thai lady and he had said this was not an isolated case, but I can not be sure about the specifics. If I can I will try to find it. This was all the info the person provided, and I am going off of memory. I'm sure some people have bad experiences so maybe this is just someone venting.

1km

You got 3 units. Are you planning on selling them, or renting them out?

I thought about getting another unit but I wiould like to see how this one pans out first. I am quir\te interested in their Asok project since it seems to be closer to everything.

And, do you, or anyone else know what percentage of foreigners bought in - is it mostly Thai?

Does anyone know anything about some of the other projects such as Supalai or LPN?