shochu

Bush Jr. owns the very small environmental home.

A few things about history - the real history.

First, most of the world's most important universities such as Oxford and Harvard still follow the traditions started at Al-Azhar. Islam has contributed far more to our understanding of things related to our everyday environment than anything the so called "whites" have contributed. And as I have said before - the middle eastern countries excel in math and sciences. When I was a grad student I had to do three graduate level engineering courses and one was taught by an Indian and the other was taught by an Egpytian. Most of my friends who took sciences in school have had the same experiences.

Second, the german barbarians routed and humiliated the romans - or did you forget that part of history.

Cheers to those who have sent kind words!

JEEBUSJONES,

You crack me up!

Please offer us something to chew on - PLEASE

LAOPO,

You have not described a Japanese Co. but any Company anywhere in the world. Tell me any company that does not resort to acconting tricks like moving purchases/profits forward/back. Look at any firm doing business anywhere in the world and they bring in the native staff to get the country firm up to speed and then they give the top duties over to locals or keep a few of the natives stay on to help guide the firm. Biggest expense is labor - training and retaining good people. Go into any headquarters in any city in the region and who do you see working the top jobs - maybe a few foreign faces but mostly locals. And yes the japanese do not give up the reins easily - but they do - think Sony. And much of your post are things others have already said - myself included - so then answer me this - why did they choose LOS when they could have chosen any number of countries in the region - in particular China or India where the markets are.

TAxEXILE,

Gee, could it be that the numbers are moving down because the world is slowing down. Is it possible that every nation has had to revise their numbers down - EXCEPT - oh wait a moment - the U.S. which is making tons of money overseas and they just had a bill passed in congress which allows all their foreign earnings to be brought back from their offshore accounts for almost no tax liability??? So what do they do - bring it all back when the U.S. economy is shit to make it look like it is really doing fine - WOW - what a great accounting trick!!!

REASONTOBECHEEP,

Your reading on the human cognitive conditon is - although hinting at some insight - quite primitive and sits within the realm of ingnorance and racism. I assume the studies you are citing are those with vested interests. Well how about trying to do some research on independent studies by psychologists who have surmised that no individual possesses any quantifiable advantage over another and as long as the individual has the basic hardware in tact - which then suggests the environment is the most single important element in their future abilities - much to your chagrin - even for africans. Witness the major scholarly african americans at ivy league schools who had the good environs. Man - your take on this is hilarious. It has even been suggested that primitive people living in tribes in the new guinea jungles are in relative terms more intelligent than we educated westerners because of their intimate and vast knowledge of all things in their environs which make our learned knowledge comparatively minimal. As well, although western books and scholars would like us to believe that creative learning in the west is better than the rote learning learned in the east - funny how it is the eastern students excelling in all the schools around the world and not only that - but funny how most creative design centers from all the major firms around the world are now rushing to open creative design centers in china, india, korea, etc. to tap into this talent. And funny how india is reknown as a management and technology center. And would you believe me if I told you that thailand has some very amazing economists and management experts that many have heard of. Funny how according to your studies - the same people also say that asians are far superior to westerners. Should we be so bold as to believe this too? I don't - but I guess you do - right?

AND as already mentioned - thaigoon writes for his country amid all the doom and gloom. Funny how when he posts something - the vultures start circling and they wait for someone to kick him - then they all start kicking him - interesting indeed.

And one more thing,

JEEBUSCONES,

:D :D :bah:

I think we need to separate human and geologic issues.

There may be a trend toward warmer weather, but I am not convinced it has to do directly with us. Sure we contribute, but the earth must be thought of as a living breathing organism that has its own timeline and its own systems in place.

The earth is on a 22,000 year cycle and every 11,00 years it reverses and causes among other things the ice age and the magnetic direction to flip. There was a mini ice age about a 1000 years ago and it wasn't caused by us. And wasn't it a generation ago everyone was going crackers about another coming ice age? The oceans and the earth sucks up way more gases than we could ever produce. And so it seems likely that we are now 11,000 years since the last major ice age, we are problaby peaking and will see some nice hot temp's and with the added human intervention maybe even hotter temp's, but I think things will turn colder - but not in our lifetimes. Also, the sun spot activities do way more than all the exhaust from our cars and industries combined and for even more facts - livestock contributes an exhorbitant amount of gases.

I think with hotter temp's we would see first an expansion of the oceans then a contraction from evaporation.

Just my thoughts having studied some geology courses in uni.

And with all this carbon trading going on isn't it a nice way of kick starting a new industry out of nothing with everyone fearmongering about the end is near.

Another fact: one lives in a large twenty room house using so much energy the monthly bill is larger than most people's McMansions yearly bills - and another is living in a small four bedroom house with amazing technology that is eco-friendly and taps into its environs for its energy needs.

One is owned by Gore the other is by Bush Jr. - who owns which will surprise you!

I want to add - when the CEO grabbed her - he through her over his shoulder likea war prize and proceeded to leave the room!

bernie66,

I do not diasgree with some of the things you have said. In fact I have seen evidence of it. But you are at the same time speaking of a condition that was a part of Japan Inc. which is now - albeit slowly - changing. But let's be fair and say the same conditions exist in every environment and in any major company around the world. I have seen this same thing you have described. For example, the former chrysler CEO was very famous to be a womanizing sexist to the point of - at a major shareholder meeting, grabbing one of his exec's who also happen to be his lover (not wife - as she was at home) and telling everyone that he was off to get some exercise.

This is undoubtedly a product of a male dominated society and company culture. And I would like to point out that this sounds a little too personal and is a bit, if not a lot - off topic. I think as I have pointed out, anyone can make a situation or discussion to look good or bad. Having said that, and please do not think I am trying to patronize you, or belittle your past situation - I will also make an assumption that you are a westerner, and point out to you that a westerner marrying into a japanese family, and two japanese marrying are two completely different things. The japanese, as you should know are a very proud (like the thai's, or really any other race), if not too proud, of their heritage and thus can be indiferrent to outsiders to the point of being rude. I would also like to point out that if you are a westerner, I can point out in very good detail, what your relationship really was, but I won't go there since I do not want to hash up any past feelings for you. I will however make an inference by saying the "christmas cake" analogy is alive and very true. And again, like any people, around the world, there will be good people and bad people, close families and distant families.

My own grandfather was a very proud and rigid man who I always though him to be very cold and unfamily-like. As a child he always expected too much and I disliked him. Now I see him for what he was - a product of his time brought up in a culture where to show any emotion was a sign of weakenss.

Yes, the japanese companies are there to make a profit and will pull out if it is no longer profitable. But so would any other company. The main point of this discussion and what I wrote was that - The Thais and Japanese share some similarities - in that - they are more similar than what they (the japanese) would share with say the chinese or vietnamese.

You have to remember that japan and korea (and now china, and most of the countries in the region) went through some crazy times. They have both developed at breakneck paces and an obvious consequence of this is social upheavel, and family disintegration.

In closing, my original point was that japan could have chosen any number of other countries in the region (malaysia, vietnam, china, indonesia, india) yet they chose thailand - for some obvious reasons and also probably for the not so obvious reasons.

Thinking NOT Too Much,

Rather than taking things out of context - do try and respond to the full dialogue,

This way we can further the topic rather than responding to the gurgling of an infant...

Think Too Hard - wrote

Do you know which side of the world Japan is at?

:D

I can't verify this, but I believe another TV poster on another post had said that the Japanese investment in Thailand were their most profitable units overseas.

Also, Think Too NOt,

Could it be possible that the japanese are using LOS as a central base since the future major markets all surrond the region, and now co's are realizing that transport costs are beginning to make a difference in the bottom line with fuel costs expected to be tight for some time. As well, china is now at a crossroads with a tight market and many co's are finding it difficult to find workers. This situation will only get worse.

And, as I stated before, the japanese are planning to make LoS the detroit of asia.

As well, could it be possible, since you are living in Japan, a country where i also have spent much time living, that the Japanese actually share many common similarities in their cultural and social outlook on life, and thus it makes it not only a wise investment in terms of profit, but also in terms of cultural adjustments and overal well being in the workplace! What I mean by this is that it you look at the working traditions in these two countries, they share a similar outlook and way of thinking. For instance, althought the chinese and vietnamese may work more productively, the thai's are more sincere in terms of loyalty to working place, as are the japanese. They both share a similar religion, and a non confrontational attitude. Just a few things to think about - which you should have known - if you really live and work in japan.

AND - are you suggesting we give any credence to your impromtu survey as having any validity beyond the ususal lunchroom banter of philistines?

It's the same fanatical, utterly incomprehensible and irrational gobledegook coming from both of them, in the same unmistakable mentally-retarded-third-grader-on-crack writing style.

JEEBUSJONES,

If my writing is incomprehensible, then I can understand your lot in life.

If you truly have trouble following anything I have written - then I do truly feel pity for you - really I do!

Care to show us some insight into this thread???

Maybe you can offer us some answers since your other compatriots seem unable to lay out a reasonable argument on any of the above matters.

CCLUB75,

You as usual - miss the point completely. You implied that LOS could not replicate what was happening in china and thus wrote it off as a lost cause. Please validate this point - if you can.

Why don't you give us some informative knowledge as to why?

CDNVIC,

Although my views are not conventional thinking, they are still valid as in factually from a different perspective. You would have been able to figure this out were it not for your limited knowledge of all things.

I wrote those sentences for two reasons:

1) To point out that facts can differ from what most think and know, and

2) To compel the likes of you - who like to make wisecracks without substantiation, or knowledge of basic history - to show themselves for who they really are!

and for Think TOO NoT as well, and BINGO,

why can't any of you formulate a convincing argument - about the topic - as to why you think LOS has no future.

I am not condoning what the two perceived powers did - Japan and Germany - in their atrocious acts of aggression, but if you can try to think logically - rather than emotionally - and if you know the history of what led up to their acts of aggression then you would not be making such unvalidated statement.

First, these two countries were well on their way to domination.

Second, they were also misled - and yes the fault is theirs for being so naive - into believing they had the support of, and encourgement of other leading western powers in fomenting a division of the world into pieces of the pie if you will.

Third, as we all should know, considering we are all literate adults, is that politics is just that - politicking. It is about playing a game of one upmanship and if you can make a move to make another fall off a precipice to give you an advantage - well why not.

Fourth, getting more to the point - although both countries did do what was unthinkable to us now, but not then - by the time of the acts of aggression - their hands were tied and their populations were in effect on the verge of a slow death. In the example of Japan, they were led to believe their actions were supported only to be blockaded with no sources of fuel, the fuel needed to do all things for survivial from producing food to heating their homes - once the western power brokers realized they were becoming too strong, too fast to the point of being eclipsed by them.

Think Too Much,

Where is the soviet thinking model and the marxist theories explained???

and

CDNVIC,

Please NOW prove my earlier assumptions wrong!!! And where any of this is funny???

AND, again, rather than making wisecracks why not try and formulate a reasionable argument - as any debater will tell you - a good argument can win any debate, irregardless of the topic or facts.

OR

Should we just assume you posters for what most on this board have already concluded = bar stool jockeys using this site as their only social life!

And venting because you were thinking with the little brain.

SORRY if I have been absent - but I do have other things to do!

Think Too Much ,

Please explain the soviet era thinking,

And while your at it please explain why marx's ideas could never work in the U.S.S.R.

It is very elementary knowledge for any one who understands simple market economics.

Or would you -

CDNVIC

Like to ,

Enlighten us with your logic so we too may revel in your intellect!

Or is it too much to ask people to back up their words!!

For all to see once and for all what we are working with!!!

BKKANDREW,

my appologies.

I have directed some sentences at you when I should have directed them at

cclub75

now,

CLUBB75,

how about refuting my responses to you???

Oh Mr. Think Too MUch,

Care to grace us with your wisdom???

You would need a special membrane used specifically for this - but i do not know if it is available here in LoS. BUT the main concern is during monsoon floods - where the drainage would have to be adequate and the supports strong enough to support the additional weight when the water doesn't drain as quickly. I think this is one of the reason why i haven't seen this being employed in a monsoon region. But i could be wrong.

There are maintenance issues as well. And if I remember correctly it is not cheap, but will pay for itself in the long run.

Google some U.S. Co's as there will be enough info to get you started.

Well, well, well, aren't we feisty today!

Uninformed post mr. think too not. Please elaborate. Please do tell us your theories for us to disect.

FORD also stands for First On Racing Day.

Did it occur to anyone that they have a long term plan and defaulting is one of them so that they can cut off their obligations?

Every country has gone from food production to craft to manufacturing and ...

Some countries even move on to high technology such as japan and germany.

Both these two countries would be the powerhouses today were it not for the world powers slapping them down by forcing them into war. Yes you read that correctly. They were given no choice - in fact their survival depended on it. I won't elaborate here - use your time to do the research or give me an argument I can refute. In the long run we will be looking up to them again - unless of course they are slapped down again.

Every country has the potential to move forward. Every country uses technology transfer to get ahead. Every invention has been invented by many others to be finally reworked for the purpose it is mostly asscociated with. So BKKANdREW - your assessment that china is moving on to producing its own stuff is misguided. And the fact that every country also has to import things to make and export things again refutes your claims.

The key ingredient in any country moving ahead is labor. This is also the make and breaking point in many, although not all things requiring labor. Labor is also the reason why a country is chosen as are other criteria such as distance to markets and ...

All countries have taken and used technology to get ahead, but the main move to wealth has been through labor. This is how england and many other countries became rich - by exploiting cheap (slave) labor. A simple example is the sugar plantations using slave labor - this one product put massive amounts of wealth into their bottom line. Now add all the other products using cheap labor and you have a country that is rich. Once they have achieved wealth and they also control a world currency = then amassing more waelth is easy as making pie

China until now has been a site of manufacturing for many companies producing things. Their main contribution has been labor for over a decade. This has done them well as has every other nation that has moved from food production to developed nation status.

And yes - idgit - Shanghai will be one of the major financial centers soon enough.

Name one country that has not followed this trajectory?

Two examples in the region in recent time are Japan and Korea. Both countries are great examples, but i will focus on korea. This was a country that went from a peasant agricultural nation to a high tech producing nation with some of the largest and best global co's in the world within a few deacades. Korea also followed the route LOS is now taking. They too had many hiccups. AND most important for cross reference is that this country did so under a strong military gov't. Japan, if you know a little about the country has a democratic gov't - but i wouold liken it to the korean example I just gave. And now LOS has a smilitary gov't who have always had a presence.

Every expert said it couldn't be done. Well I think history speaks for itself. After the 97 meltdown - everyone wrote off the region and said it was finished. ER what year is it...a pretty ###### good recovery.

The U.S. has a two party system but everyonwe knows they are both controlled by the same people in power. This is a ploy to make people think they have a choice when in fact they do not.

It is a fallacy to assume one group of people are superior to another. Rich countries are rich becauee of actions of gov't's in using force to control or subjugate another. Call it a form of kleptocracy.

There is no reason to assume that LOS will not follow the example given considering they have a vibrant work force, a young population, great location, cheap costs and so on...

The area of dispute here seems to be the short term and long term forcasts.

Don't always read too much into the headlines - it's politics. And when you look at figures, anyone who is familiar with accounting practices will inform you that it is a huge grey area and subject to what is included and what is not.

It would be nice if people actually put forth some meaningful arguments as to why they think one way or another - but that would be asking to THiNK TOO MUCH!

I wonder why people get a kick - out of kicking - LOS down all the time - perhpas because they got kicked down becuase they didn't do their homework. A place is what you make of it. I personally have a great time here and that is why I continue to come back and have invested in theis country and will continue to do so - for the long term. Am I being too optimistic - no - just being a realist relying on the facts that stare me in the face and not on hyper sensationalistic propaganda and heresy.

Further knowledge transfer will require payment.

A final note to all those who have been burned and feel a burning desire to burn others - Don't Think Too Ouch!

cheers

Heng,

your wisdom is infinite,

and,

your wit on some other posts always put a smile on my face,

Cheers

The largest american employer - the government.

They're lucky - they get to pay using their funny money - need more - start up the printing press!

I want to preface this by saying that i will only respond to this one topic and leave the others as is because this topic seems to be running concurrantly on a few.

First, i think it is okay to post news since it is "news", but it alway needs to be taken as just that - news. What i mean by this is that headlines have an intended purpose - to fuel speculation - such as you and many other posters here screeming about the decline of LOS.

Now, my backgroung is no longer related to finance because i have moved on to another area - but i do spend a lot of time - probably over a 1000 hours a year researching for my own investments and interests (hobby). I too read the headlines and other things - but I always know that they are not the be all end all of the story. Sometimes co.'s will issue a headline for one reason or another. I never fully believe everything I read - and instead just use it with my knowledge of everything else to come to a conclusion.

It seems a lot of you want LOs to fail for one reason or another. I can guess - but I'll refrain.

I tend ot look at the long term picture and not the short term hiccups. As i said before, elsewhere, the world is slowing down. Don't believe the numbers you read in the HEADLINES as they have an agenda. This will of course affect LOS. But, when you look at all the fundamentals around - such as the fact that there are huge econonies all around with a young population (key here) all still wanting to buy things for the first time (as opposed to replacement items), and the country has a vibrant workforce - educated too, countrary to what many of you think, and the fact that Bangers is in the midst of a huge infrastructure upgrade - which generally means a large jump in investment and subsequent value, and everything else that follows. Follow any city that has gone through these changes and you will see a picture emrge of the potential. And where else do you see so much investment as in the siam area for shopping. Co's would not make these investments on a whim - they think longer term.

Yes, Los is just a manufacturing center and in the long run will have to move on - but all economies have to go through this period of adjustment. China - up until now has done the same. Many of the co's there are foreign (and american) owned and they have many of the materials brought in to be manufactured - then to have them shiioped off. Who benefits here. The chinese and the co's - the amercian people only benefit in being able to buy cheaper products - not where it counts. So, why can;t LOS follow this trajectory for now and move on when they are ready? i tseems ot have worked for china - so how does this not work for LOS? And Los is also a major export nation in many other things produced here - yes - here!

All of the arguments I have heard on this (above) only suggest something - but do no justice in validating any point.

The fact they they produce something trickles down to the economy much more than any other way of advancing an economy. Add to this all the assiciated benefits and you have a postive picture. Tourism does benefit the economy - but not in the way most here think. I won't go inot this because i don't have th etime or the inclination. Besides you need to figure some things out for yourself.

I go where my intuition takes me, and this is backed up with many years of expereince. I'm here to stay. As I have said before - I have been coming here for close to 20 years. I have seen it all. Los has improved tremendously - but there have been some downs along the way - but overall it is becoming a world class city that offers someone like myself everything that I look. I rank Bangers right behind Tokyo, Shanghai, and Seoul in terms of major cities in the region with huge potential. I know of only two other cities with the density and scale of shopping as the Siam area - Tokyo and seoul. You should have seen what bangers was like back in the 80's - then you will understand. Anyways, bangers will take off soon enough and I plan to be here to capitalize while many of you will be reading abou it in the NEWS!

Investors stay in it for the long run, speculators come and go like the ladies of the night!.

In closing - if you don't like it - why stay on here - either in LOs or this forum. If you think there is not future - then see ya!

not much.

less than 40,000 baht for me.

again, they would be for export to the huge markets with tons of people all around.

for some news - thailand does export things - quite a bit actually - do some research before you discuss things in a finite way. there is no ecxuse wiht the availability of the internet now.

PhilHarries,

sometimes things need to be said so that people can be aware what they are doing is wrong.

i'm sure many new people coming to this forum and/or thailand will be more wary of some things than others now

Bingo,

those cars are now being directed for export.

thailand is in a pivotal position as they are central to a great region which will continue to boom with all the ups and downs that are associated with it.

as well, thailand is a wealth of cultural export with thier music, movies and all things thai to all the sourrounding countries.

give us another country in the region with so much cultural export.

i support thaigoon as somebody needs to be a realist among all the pesimists who have been burned when things didn't go their way.

cheers thaigoon

keep up the spirit

As usual, the first few posters completely misread the post and read and took the OP's reference as himself, then the OP went along with it.

Whazzzz up?

Why not be a man and state your true intent?

Seems some on this forum try to get back at people by trying to be coy and sliding sideways, but unfortunatley - the faculty that you are working with is all too evident for all to see.

Mods - do we really need this?

MTW,

You completely misread my post.

Looking is one thing anytime, such as one looks at an object - but staring with intent is wrong anytime, whether with someone or not - just plain rude and we as westerners who were supposedly inculcated with some form of civility should know better. Thais, many who might be new to seeing a farang will stare because they may not have been exposed to farangs before - either way we should give them the benefit of the doubt since we are in their country - no?

Just to give an example of the people I think are causing friction here:

I was at a coffee shop one afternoon and I believe the singer Punch came out in the hot sun to have a coffe and bread. I was the only one outside. Everyone was inside in the air-con. Within a minute guys, old enough to be her father were scrambling out and asking to sit at my table and her table because there was no more room. AND they made no bones of checking her out to the point she quickly finished up and left. Did I look? Yes at first to see who it was, then I went back to reading, but I did feel the vibe all around and couldn't help notice how uncomfortable it was fro her and felt sorry for her. She is a very cute and actually a beautiful young thai women about 22/23. The operative word here being YOUNG. Would I even contemplate trying something - no. It is ridiculous to think we can even try something. It is this ridiculous attitude that is ruining things here very fast.

I talk to thais sometimes and trust me - they are fed up and it takes a lot to ge tthem to amnit something of this nature.

And what difference does it make if someone ius here or there. I don't live in LOS bu ti have been coming here close to 20 years so I have an idea of things here.

And MTV was it good to get it off your chest or is there somehting else bothering you?