Kilgore Trout

Putting words in my mouth again; but I understand that you're good at that.

I did not say that it would be horrible for Thai students to study European history; I simply asked why they should be forced to do so to satisfy your cultural imperialism.

No school system can educate all their pupils about everything. Asian history is far more relevant to Thais than European history; just as European history is more relevant to Europeans than Asian history.

In the UK, the compulsory history curriculum is almost entirely British history; it is only when history becomes a vocational choice that it expands to cover more global history.

I suspect that the same is true for the US, Canada, Australia etc.

Why do you demand that Thai should be forced to learn our history rather than their own?

Of course, if a Thai student chooses to study, for example, 20th century European history, good for them; and good for a western student who chooses to study Thai history.

Here is a novel idea; everyone study WORLD history!!

Not such a difficult concept to grasp.

There are some people who just don`t get it.

I don`t give a toss about Ghengis Khan or mao zhi tung and his little red book simply because I can`t relate to them and making an educated guess that probably applies to most Westerners. The black death was a natural disaster and did not involve the conflicts and mass murders of innocent people by an evil regime, unless of course you do not consider the Nazis as being an evil regime.

I had relatives fighting on both sides during the first world war, my Dad and uncles fought in the second world war so therefore I can relate to both the world wars. I would be extremely upset and offended if I saw images of WW1 veterans being ridiculed on some crap regalia.

Here is an example for you: if you were to wear a loud tee-shirt with a large printed image of a WW2 Japanese imperial solder on it and was traveling in a south American country, I doubt if anyone would give you a second glance and probably regard you as some sort of tronk tourist. Now try the same thing in China where the atrocities made against them by the Japanese during WW2 still holds painful memories, then see how far you`re get?

We are mostly affected in life by events and images that can be personal to us or that we can relate to. The same applies to the Thais. Do you get it now or how much clearer would you like this explained?

I would agree with you.

A Chechen would be more concerned about Stalin than Hitler.

An Armenian would be more concerned about Turkey than Hitler.

ergo, the Thais don't give a monkey's about Hitler.

As a visitor to Thailand, all of us on visas don't have any right to interfere with them, whatever our opinions. We can say we don't like it, but we shouldn't expect them to give a rat's bottom as to our opinions.

Exactly.

Providing the Thais don`t suddenly dawn on Nazi uniforms and start claiming they are the master race and wanting world domination, then we can moan about it and show our disapproval, even wave our fists at them and jump in the air, but really have no rights to demand that they cease and desist their practice of using Nazi images for certain business advertising and fashion clothing. Exactly the points I have been trying to make, only you explained it much better and easier.

You guys are totally missing the point. Nobody said they CAN"T do it, but if they do they should expect to be criticized for it, and rightly so.

They should also expect to be looked down upon for it and be perceived as fools.

I'm pretty sure even a 5th grader could figure that one out. it's really sad that you can't.

OP its quite the opposite of corruption its their business and we are not living in a communist country they are free to run their business how they want, you are free to take you business else where thats your liberty for the moment. BUT did you ever stop and think about why the double prices exist for foreigns in the first place?? Most "white people" will never get it until its too late. Its dis-heartening to watch. Its especially horrible to watch people over 40 who still dont have a clue despite their age, pointing their fascist whacking stick at people who provide a services to the world!

Agreed. In my country I always charge non-whites more than whites. I even have a scale, one price for asians, another for blacks etc.

Anyone who doesn't look like me should pay more.

If you complain or argue with me about it then you are a fascist

<No event in all of world history............................................, ever had the affect on people so much as during WW2.

Hmmmmmm. I'd say the Great War had more effect, and probably the Black death had more effect than the Great War.

In context, Ghengis Khan was probably worse than Hitler, Stalin and Mao put together for numbers of people killed by proportion of population.

In a few hundred years or so, Hitler will probably be no more significant than Odoacer.

There are some people who just don`t get it.

I don`t give a toss about Ghengis Khan or mao zhi tung and his little red book simply because I can`t relate to them and making an educated guess that probably applies to most Westerners. The black death was a natural disaster and did not involve the conflicts and mass murders of innocent people by an evil regime, unless of course you do not consider the Nazis as being an evil regime.

I had relatives fighting on both sides during the first world war, my Dad and uncles fought in the second world war so therefore I can relate to both the world wars. I would be extremely upset and offended if I saw images of WW1 veterans being ridiculed on some crap regalia.

Here is an example for you: if you were to wear a loud tee-shirt with a large printed image of a WW2 Japanese imperial solder on it and was traveling in a south American country, I doubt if anyone would give you a second glance and probably regard you as some sort of tronk tourist. Now try the same thing in China where the atrocities made against them by the Japanese during WW2 still holds painful memories, then see how far you`re get?

We are mostly affected in life by events and images that can be personal to us or that we can relate to. The same applies to the Thais. Do you get it now or how much clearer would you like this explained?

I would agree with you.

A Chechen would be more concerned about Stalin than Hitler.

An Armenian would be more concerned about Turkey than Hitler.

ergo, the Thais don't give a monkey's about Hitler.

As a visitor to Thailand, all of us on visas don't have any right to interfere with them, whatever our opinions. We can say we don't like it, but we shouldn't expect them to give a rat's bottom as to our opinions.

I agree with you there, same can be said about fools who dare to criticize the USA whilst standing foot on our sacred soil stained with the blood of patriots.

Our opinion that we know what is best for the world should not be argued with and people shouldn't expect us to give a rat's bottom as to the opinion of foreign aliens.

Kilgore Trout

Glad you feel that way. I'm sure then, that you would back my idea for "Pol Pots Burgers" in England. Our motto would be "burgers with a 1/4 pound of pure beef straight from the killing fields."

What happens in England is not my concern, you sell what you want, if it sells great.

But when the OP posted to the issue, I responded with my opinion!

As the last time I was in the states there was a Nazi demonstration marching under a White Power flag in full Nazi uniform, protesting against "Illegal Immigration" in the US on the steps of the state capital in Phoenix Arizona under the protection of the Phoenix Police Department. There was between 75 to 100 Nazi uniformed demonstrators, not a mere drop in the bucket.

Nothing on the OP's video came close to the real danger of Western rising Nazism,. or anything relating to that issue here in Thailand!

I will let you worry about "Pol Pot Burgers" and the English eating and business habits and I will worry about my concern of Nazism flourishing in my home country.

Cheers

Are you for real? There is a HUGE difference between the two. We expect that behavior from a bunch of nazi idiots in the US; if you think there is a real problem then you are clueless. A very small minority of fools exercising their right to free speech which as I don't agree with what they say, I do believe they have a right to say it. That is what freedom is all about.

On the other hand here in Thailand you have nitwits who are using very powerful symbols of hatred and destruction to make cutesie shows and t-shirts and when told that it is extremely offensive they just giggle and say "I don't know."

You are comparing apples to oranges here.

Yea, that is a bummer. Now you have to drink more of that swill to get the same effect

 Quite apparent that at least 48% of the electorate are simply too immature and lack the mental capacity to participate in an electoral process. Most serious observers agree that a better solution is for a benevolent force to lead the country while education levels and judicial/law enforcement systems are drastically improved. Suthep would be as good as anybody to assume power for the next decade to allow the democratic bedrock to be laid squarely and without the corruption and violence that has become synonymous with regime Shinawat.

And you think that after 10 years they would just "give up" their power?

I think you are a bit naive

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Always amazed at the number of posters whining about getting scammed or refused by the taxis, then toss their business to to drivers that break the rules.  

 

The same drivers that take money out of the pockets of the guys who do play by the rules (and wait in long lines to pick up a fare).

 

Possibly how Phuket taxi mafia got their start?

Well said

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I just want to say what an awesome job Khun Suthep is doing. The way he has forced a democratically elected Government from office and his demand for a “peoples Committee” is outstanding. His “4 point plan” is brilliant, especially the setting up of a peoples police force in all the provinces to crush any opposition immediately it arises….brilliant!

A peoples police force would need a uniform, we can’t have armed thugs roaming the streets and keeping order in flip-flops and t-shirts so I suggest to Khun Suthep to drop the yellow shirts and start using brown ones to crush the red shirts. Once order and security is established then change to black shirts that was actually designed by Hugo Boss himself! It worked brilliantly in the 1920’s & 30’s just need to change the logo's a little bit (upsets the Northerners for some reason).

So....All hail Khun Suthep

Zeig....

Zeig....

As one who comes from a family who lost many members during the holocaust; don't go there!!!

Satire aside, it is not anywhere near the same and can be offensive

I'm sure you can think of a better example to make your point

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*(Deleted post edited out)*

Right, because Thailand doesn't want US investment, aid and military support.
Did you know that Americans are the ONLY foreign nation allowed to own property 100%? Thais love America
Face it, Thais want to be just like decadent Americans, YOU will never change that.

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I am talking about you. You say above that you are respected. What do you do that makes you respected that is different than most people?

I have become part of my Thai community so I don't have any problems. But what is it that you do? I speak Thai am a Buddhist and help with community projects. What do you do? I help with stray dogs getting them neutered and checked by the local vet. People here appreciate that. What do you do?

You did say you were respected, right? I told you what I do to gain that respect. What do you do?

You can complain about the darkness or light a candle. What do you do?

You can praise Buddha as much as you want, speak Thai fluently and break your back for your community. At the end of the day you are, will always be just a farang.

You will never be respected as a Thai (even the lowest Thai), merely tolerated and when it comes down to it, will receive no more respect than Joe Whiteboy straight off the airbus at swampy.

Get used to it.

Precisely. If this guy gets run down by a truck in front of the temple, the villagers would giggle and go thru his pockets.

I would have to step in and defend Thailiketoo and say that Thais sure can have respect for us. I am sure he gets respect from some of his friends in his community, what he does fail to see though, is that Thailand is very racist, and that the use and notion of the word "farang" is indeed a proof if this. Even though Thais usually means no direct harm with the word.

Thais can have as much respect for you as far as a "falang" goes. My point is that you will never, ever be respected and treated like a Thai even if you have lived here 100 years and have 100 million baht in the bank. This is a fact. It is what it is.

I would be surprised if that was actually the highest price ever paid for a famous guitar. But can't be bothered to google to find out. Especially since Dylan was far more song writer than guitar legend. I could see Stevie Ray Vaughan #1 going for far more, or Pages double neck or several of his well known instruments. Heck, a Yamaha he played while traveling around with a video and his signature sold for $13,000 at auction in Pattaya last year. So imagine one of his old Led Zeppelin touring instruments. I suspect a few million.

But maybe I'm wrong. Anyway cool story.

This beats Jerry Garcia's tiger guitar which used to be the highest price sold

Now sits in some ceo's office; Jerry is rolling in his grave....

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I don't think it bothers guys like Jerry that his tools are considered holy relics. He won't be bothered at all IMO.

On question above regarding non-famous 60s strats - sure they are less expensive. Heck no need to go that high. For between $1000 - $3000 you can buy a new guitar built better most likely en every way from Fender or a variety of boutique luthiers. Modern technology builds to tighter tolerances and if you go high end they use parts every bit as good as the 60s. IMO.

I have a 2007 Custom shop Strat and feel no need to buy someth else to sound or play better. That would require more practice.

I don't think he is bothered that it is a holy relic; I think he would be bothered that some super rich yuppie has it on his wall and noodles on it during his lunch break.

He had originally left it to the guy who made it; the rest of the band sued to get it back and lost. The luthier turned around and sold it for close to a cool mil.

I would be surprised if that was actually the highest price ever paid for a famous guitar.  But can't be bothered to google to find out.  Especially since Dylan was far more song writer than guitar legend.  I could see Stevie Ray Vaughan #1 going for far more, or Pages double neck or several of his well known instruments.   Heck, a Yamaha he played while traveling around with a video and his signature sold for $13,000 at auction in Pattaya last year.  So imagine one of his old Led Zeppelin touring instruments.  I suspect a few million.

 

But maybe I'm wrong.  Anyway cool story.

 

 

 

 

This beats Jerry Garcia's tiger guitar which used to be the highest price sold

Now sits in some ceo's office; Jerry is rolling in his grave....

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RIP to the lad ,as to your other question ,very little recourse i fear.

If the structure was oned by a non Thai, would there be recourse? Of course there would be!

But, more importantly....

I think it is a shame that it is even possible for something like this to happen and I feel deeplyf

or the family.

I also think schools need to be held accountable for the safety of students.

At my local school, things are not maintained well at all and children are permitted to do just about anything they wish.

A lot of money is spent painting and putting up pretty flags and statues of Buddha, but none on safety!

I've seen 5 & 6 year old children climbing 20 meters up a steel tower that holds 4 speakers ( that haven't been used in years).

If one was to fall they would hit hard pavement

Hazards like that should be removed and children need to be supervised.

There is no school yard supervision and children sometimes go for hours without a teacher present in the classroom as well

Another safety problem. Large buses used to transport factory workers are parked on either side of the entrance gate to the school.

This not only eliminates use of one side of the road, but it is impossible to see children on foot or bicycle ( nas well as vehicles driven by those dropping off or picking up students ) exiting the school until they are in the one lane of rather fast traffic!

The list goes on, but these examples are enough to get the point across.

It is a miracle that more fatalities and serious injuries do not occur.

You would think child safety would be a high priority.

It's not in Thailand.

In my country ( USA ) they go overboard, prohibiting children from even running on the school grounds for fear of an injury.

But to be fair, I'm sure it is to avoid law suites and not so much out of concern for child safety.

After thought: How many times have you seen a school bus in Thailand with students riding on top of the bus??? How safe is that????images (13).jpg

This is a truly sad occurrence, a travesty that a young life should have been cut short. What a horrible accident. My deepest sympathy to his family.

However, at least kids in Thailand have the freedom to take those risks.

In the West, the compensation culture; the mania for a risk-free environment; the wrapping in cotton wool of kids of all ages has gone way too far, and will be the undoing of Western dominance in the world.

"I've seen 5 & 6 year old children climbing 20 meters up a steel tower that holds 4 speakers ( that haven't been used in years).

If one was to fall they would hit hard pavement

Hazards like that should be removed and children need to be supervised."

I disagree. Kids need to learn the meaning of risk. They need to learn to make their own judgements. If all risk is removed, they will never learn how to deal with life. I shudder to think how the next generation of British and American adults will cope. They won't have a clue. They will be a danger to themselves and to everyone around them.

Yes, by all means remove obviously hazardous items from children's environs; that's common sense, but don't try to forestall every possible danger they might encounter. They won't thank you for it, and all you will achieve is to stunt their mental growth.

When I was young, we were constantly pushing the edges of the envelope. It was normal. That's how we learned where the limits lay. And sometimes it hurt. But we grew up wiser for it.

The compensation culture, the aversion to risk and the 'precautionary principle' are the worst things to have happened in the West since the war, and they will destroy the West just as surely as the descent into hedonism destroyed the Roman Empire. Inward looking and self-absorbed is the mood in Europe and the US, and the Asians will soon walk all over them as a result.

Yes, that has worked very well in thailand. Because of lack of safety standards as children; Thai adults (as you said) have learned to deal with life, have a clue and do not pose a danger to themselves and everyone else around them.

The west should strive to attain such goals......

 The Filipinos in question had equal to or surpassing qualifications than that of the other foreigners.  At the school where I teach the pay is based on qualification, not the country of origin.  The Filipino teachers with a M.A. degree get exactly the same pay as I do.  And no, Filipino teachers here do not get 2x what they would in the Philippines - they get the same as the govt. standardized pay in the Philippines.

An MA in edu from the phillipines isnt even close to being comparable to a ba edu from a western country; so unless the phillipino went to school in the west, dont make me laugh

However; these kinds of schools probably dont have qualified westerners either

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Then I wonder why I never see westerners pointing at Thais shouting khun khun?

Please enlighten me as to why?

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I can only speak for myself.

I usually do not use "khun" unless I have a name to go with it.

As to why there are not a bunch of farang running around shouting "khun khun"...maybe they are being rude and saying "you you".

Go right on ahead being offended...it must be miserable way to go through life, looking for offense at every turn.

I never go around looking for offense at any turn.

I do however, call em like I see em. Thats because I have integrity and am concerned just as much about people being rude due to their own ignorance as much as I am about being offended by said rudeness.

Unfortunately the same can not be said for Thai apologists. They are self loathing creatures with a skewed WORLD view and very low self-esteem.

You "call em like I see em". That is fine, I do the same.

You are offended by "you...you", I am not.

That does not make me an apologist for anyone.

The ones with the skewed world view are those who look for offense at every turn, and think the world should change to fit their view.

As far as self-esteem, it is those with so-called low self esteem that seek to blame their hurt feelings on everyone else, instead of looking inside.

My self-esteem is just fine. I know who I am.

Perhaps you don't know the difference between being offended and pointing out insulting behavior.

I have to actually CARE about someone in order to be offended. I could give a rats about fools on the street who display their ignorance so blatantly.

Judging from your posts; I'm pretty sure you don't know who you are. Might I suggest a month in a sanitarium?

Surely, I know the difference.

If you do not care, therefore are not insulted, why do you feel the need to point it out?

Whether some behavior is 'insulting' is subjective, to each individual. You seem to have a hard time with that concept.

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because as I said; I calls em like I sees em; whether I'm offended or not. I have the right to point out anything I want, regardless of any offense taken.

Is that concept so hard for you to understand?

Then I wonder why I never see westerners pointing at Thais shouting khun khun?

Please enlighten me as to why?

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I can only speak for myself.

I usually do not use "khun" unless I have a name to go with it.

As to why there are not a bunch of farang running around shouting "khun khun"...maybe they are being rude and saying "you you".

Go right on ahead being offended...it must be miserable way to go through life, looking for offense at every turn.

I never go around looking for offense at any turn.

I do however, call em like I see em. Thats because I have integrity and am concerned just as much about people being rude due to their own ignorance as much as I am about being offended by said rudeness.

Unfortunately the same can not be said for Thai apologists. They are self loathing creatures with a skewed WORLD view and very low self-esteem.

You "call em like I see em". That is fine, I do the same.

You are offended by "you...you", I am not.

That does not make me an apologist for anyone.

The ones with the skewed world view are those who look for offense at every turn, and think the world should change to fit their view.

As far as self-esteem, it is those with so-called low self esteem that seek to blame their hurt feelings on everyone else, instead of looking inside.

My self-esteem is just fine. I know who I am.

Perhaps you don't know the difference between being offended and pointing out insulting behavior.

I have to actually CARE about someone in order to be offended. I could give a rats about fools on the street who display their ignorance so blatantly.

Judging from your posts; I'm pretty sure you don't know who you are. Might I suggest a month in a sanitarium?

Now here's the thing... You expect Eastern cultures to know about western sensibilities. And yet you make no effort to blend into the culture of Thais in which you are immersed in? Perhaps the You You person is not as refined a person that he/she should be. You find those kinds of people in the west as well. Same same everywhere...

I hated it as well. But after thinking about it, You or Khun (คุณ) is a literal translation. If a person was calling my attention, he/she would say Khun Krap (คุณกรับ) or would you prefer "You Krap"?

If it takes time for you to learn Thai, then be more forgiving about Thais learning to speak English. At least they (Thai) try.

Excellent point. If they were making an attempt to be polite in the slightest they would certainly use Khrap/kaa with the pronoun. Thais would NEVER speak to someone they don't know (especially a customer) with out using kaa/krap.

And also, the way some people shout YOU YOU; you can just hear it in their tone and the way they speak to you that they are being extremely rude and disrespectful.

If you have lived here a long time and speak a bit of Thai/ understand some basic cultural differences etc. you can tell when someone is being rude and when someone is just ignorant.

That Thai guy saying "you...you!" is doing a literal translation to you language (English). His assumption (probably) is that you do not know Thai. Given that, why would he mix Thai and English by saying "You you khrap" ?

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Same reason cashiers say "tawentee baht kaa/krap" when you order something.

Why would they mix English and Thai? Because it is ingrained in them that when speaking politely you must say it.

Just accept it; shouting YOU YOU is rude. No need to defend it.....next

it is not a matter of not being able to afford it. I just don't want to waste $16 on a hamburger.

Well it's not a "ham burger" with american accent, it's high quality imported beef, nice sides and few drinks with friends.

Only dumb post here is your poor ass, if you people spent less time talking about ugly hookers on TV and more time working towards a proper career you can afford a 500 baht meal.

If you can't afford a 500baht burger, fries and extra sides with a friend after work and a couple of drinks then go to fattys and get a pork burger for 200 baht. Or just go to 7 eleven / mcdonalds if you want muck, even the meat balls at bangkok burger are better quality meat than any fast food chain or burger joint here.

And theres plenty of places that a 500 baht burger is pretty much perfect, el gaucho, hyde and seek (wagyu) , bangkok burger and firehouse (if less oil) . 500 baht each in the western world or here is not unreasonable to eat out for a meal in a restaurant.

Fatty doesn't serve pork burgers.

AND his beef burgers are a helluva lot better than most of what is available for double or more the price.

I hated it as well. But after thinking about it, You or Khun (คุณ) is a literal translation. If a person was calling my attention, he/she would say Khun Krap (คุณกรับ) or would you prefer "You Krap"?

If it takes time for you to learn Thai, then be more forgiving about Thais learning to speak English. At least they (Thai) try.

What I hate is being called to as "YOU!" I know it's difficult for Thais to understand that using "you" with a verb as part of a conversation is fine, but getting people's attention with "You!" is very rude. However, it's a fact, and there ought to be a government campaign to educate Thais to that fact. Seriously. Tourism is a significant part of the economy, but one of the downsides for tourists is being bludgeoned with "YOU!" many times a day. And if you're a resident, it's much worse: you have to grit your teeth every time you hear it. Thousands of times per year.

Excellent point. If they were making an attempt to be polite in the slightest they would certainly use Khrap/kaa with the pronoun. Thais would NEVER speak to someone they don't know (especially a customer) with out using kaa/krap.

And also, the way some people shout YOU YOU; you can just hear it in their tone and the way they speak to you that they are being extremely rude and disrespectful.

If you have lived here a long time and speak a bit of Thai/ understand some basic cultural differences etc. you can tell when someone is being rude and when someone is just ignorant.

Well, politically correct is not to call a spate a spate and I personally feel that the developed countries tend to getting more and more over the top in this respect.

I personally have no problem to get addressed as a farang in Thailand. Why not? Because I am a farang in Thailand but anyway I am more that person that calls a spate a spate as well.

Cheers,

Just a farang in Thailand that gets treated by most of the Thai people very nicely and even by those that call him a farang.

What is a spate?

Anyone who has to "address" soneone by their nationality OR race has serious problems

Stop apologizing for behavior that would be unacceptable if one of your coubtrymen acted that way just because said person is Thai

Thai people don't like it either

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I think the people who have problem are those who concern about being called falang. By the way, I have never met any Thai person that would be offended if others refer him/her as Thai.

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Nor do I think Americans would be offended by being called American or Germans being called German etc.

However, I am positive Thais would be offended by being called a word that lumps all countries and peoples of a large geographic region together or racial features.

Thanks for making me laugh today; I needed it!

Hey, if I can make you laugh or smile today, I have a successful day. But, have you forgotten the word Asian? People call them Asian every day. They don't seem to have a problem with it.

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I have never seen westerners using the word asian the same as Thais use "farang." If they did there is not a doubt in my mind that they would be offended.

"You...you!" here is analogous to saying "Sir...sir!" in the 'west'. There is nothing rude about it.

It is a thai speaker try for a generic word in English. In Thai he might use the generic 'luung', 'pee', 'bpaa', or 'nong'...the equivalent words in English do not really work.

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Then I wonder why I never see westerners pointing at Thais shouting khun khun?

Please enlighten me as to why?

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I can only speak for myself.

I usually do not use "khun" unless I have a name to go with it.

As to why there are not a bunch of farang running around shouting "khun khun"...maybe they are being rude and saying "you you".

Go right on ahead being offended...it must be miserable way to go through life, looking for offense at every turn.

I never go around looking for offense at any turn.

I do however, call em like I see em. Thats because I have integrity and am concerned just as much about people being rude due to their own ignorance as much as I am about being offended by said rudeness.

Unfortunately the same can not be said for Thai apologists. They are self loathing creatures with a skewed WORLD view and very low self-esteem.