Nam Plah

Erroneously (hopefully) being reported as 50 tonnes of oil here:
http://www.wral.com/thailand-resort-beach-blackened-by-oil-spill/12713139/

Same here, off of it for more than a year.

From what I understand beer is heavily adulterated with additional chemicals (anti-foaming agents, preservatives, emulsifiers, etc...) plus the yeast may be an allergen to some people while neutral grain spirits are "cleaner".

A doctor once told a friend of mine to stick to top-shelf spirits and lay off beer altogether.

Reference to the facts as reported here on TV:

http://www.kgw.com/news/Oregon-man-missing-in-Thailand-may-have-been-drugged-205004311.html

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/businessman-washington-ties-feared-kidnapped-thail/nXZM6/

Why are you so concerned about convincing a lot of total anonymous strangers on an open public forum?

I have no idea what you lot are involved in and personally, I don`t want to know, but whatever it is, it could conclude with someone getting murdered.

If as you believe, there has been an attempt on this guy`s life and the said person is in serious danger and risk, than the obvious next move is to get out of Thailand until whatever is going on is resolved.

You have been warned and how you continue your activities here is at your own risk and discretion.

You have no idea, don't want to know and yet are offering an opinion and advice.

Is your last sentence directed at me personally or at Nick for continuing to stay in Thailand?

Reference to the facts as reported here on TV:

http://www.kgw.com/news/Oregon-man-missing-in-Thailand-may-have-been-drugged-205004311.html

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/businessman-washington-ties-feared-kidnapped-thail/nXZM6/

Now that Nick is found I see no point in continuing this public discourse.
Especially in light of the fact that nothing productive can be gained through debating or dissecting what I have written.

If anyone is TRULY interested in the well-being and safety of our friend I suggest you contact the US Embassy, the local media or the local authorities yourself and inquire through official channels.

Thank you again for your interest and support and I hope that should you ever find yourself in a similar predicament that you have friends who will step up to the challenge.

If he remembers standing up with gf and uncle by the bed, does he remember having anything to drink prior to this at the house?

A friend of mine was drugged and left for dead in a hotel for several days. He does not remember much after the drinks in a bar where he was drugged, yet the hotel has video of him entering the hotel walking on his own with a male and a female. His hotel was cleaned out, and safe opened, they convinced him to open his safe for them.

He tested positive later for that drug rohypnol I think it was.

I won't speculate on the variety of intoxicants that can be administered to achieve the effects reported but to say that Nick is currently undergoing a medical examination at a local Pattaya hospital including a toxicology screen.

Nick is requesting that detailed information regarding the current legal proceedings and status of himself and his ex-gf remain private until a complete dissolution of his connection to her.

The initial thrust of this PR attempt was to raise the alarm and cast light on the situation in order that it not go quietly unnoticed.

Our belief is that we saved Nick's life through our quick and loud reporting of events as they occurred.

I can state that:

Nick returned home on Wednesday afternoon and had a list of important business matters to attend to, phone calls to make, emails to send, etc...

But by early evening he said he felt so de-energized that he just wanted to sleep.

He doesn't drink to excess nor consume drugs and he said that he had never felt like that before in his life.

His last memory was of being stood up from his bed by his GF and her "uncle" and taken to her waiting car.

The next 2 days are a blank.

Upon returning to Pattaya yesterday he began to regain his senses and at some point snatched his (ex) GF mobile away and checked her sms list finding a generic mobile service provider alert stating "Welcome To Cambodia".

Our belief is Nick was not taken on a scenic drive to photograph the lush jungle on the Thai/Cambodian border rather he was probably slated to never be seen again.

However our vocal and timely intervention, breaking into his house to retrieve evidence, documents and ensure he, himself wasn't on the premises and thus summoning the police (via his gf's sister to report that we had broken in who also contacted the gf and alerted her to the situation) probably threw a monkey-wrench in her plans to secretly and silently make him disappear.

The gf's story after changing several times then stated that Nick was with her, in fine health and didn't want to speak with anyone (including police) but that she and him would return the following morning.

Myself and Harvey waited from 6am to around 8:30am for her to arrive at the time she indicated she would but she eventually showed up around 10-11am at which point Harvey was contacted and the events of yesterday unfolded.

I would like to say that she has been charged and is in custody for the crime (drugging, kidnapping) but alas it is not the case.

Nam Plah This story is starting to read like a soap opera. Realy!. It seams more like a domestic dispute rather than a (drugging, kidnapping) There are conflicts in your reporting like, Upon returning to Pattaya yesterday he began to regain his senses and at some point snatched his (ex) GF mobile away and checked her sms list finding a generic mobile service provider alert stating "Welcome To Cambodia". But earlier stated "We think that Nick has been dosed with a hypnotic as he appears lucid but has no memory of the past 3 days (he may still be operating under the effects of some drug)." You also stated that the US Dept of State and Diplomatic Services were involved. What happened to them ? I'm sure if there were some criminal activity they still would be involved, You thanked all the local authorities for their support in helping in the return of your friend Nick yet they do not seem to be supporting Nick now? Sorry to state it like this but this story is very strange indeed.

Firstly, if there appear to be inconsistencies or confusion in my reporting it is because the situation is ongoing and unresolved.

I have attempted to report exactly what I know, when I know it and nothing more.

Any editorializing or opinions stem from posters outside of the affair.

Thanking the authorities is simply good form, and did not intimate that the ongoing problem was resolved but to note that Nick was returned alive and to thank all who became involved in serving that end.

Any ex-pat with more than a cursory awareness of the state of criminal activity and the law enforcement procedures in Thailand will understand that this is not a resolved matter and not simply a "domestic disturbance".

The entire thrust of my posting here has been to raise the alarm, become a thorn in the side of those who would otherwise ignore the case and ultimately in Nick's friends' opinion help to locate Nick and possibly save his life.

Yes, the US Diplomatic Services and Consular Attache are aware and involved.

Any speculation on the veracity or validity of any information that I have posted herein is the responsibility of the reader and if you think that I have nothing better to do than fabricate this story to some other end than helping my friend then you need to reexamine your own motivations.

Nick is requesting that detailed information regarding the current legal proceedings and status of himself and his ex-gf remain private until a complete dissolution of his connection to her.

The initial thrust of this PR attempt was to raise the alarm and cast light on the situation in order that it not go quietly unnoticed.

Our belief is that we saved Nick's life through our quick and loud reporting of events as they occurred.

I can state that:

Nick returned home on Wednesday afternoon and had a list of important business matters to attend to, phone calls to make, emails to send, etc...

But by early evening he said he felt so de-energized that he just wanted to sleep.

He doesn't drink to excess nor consume drugs and he said that he had never felt like that before in his life.

His last memory was of being stood up from his bed by his GF and her "uncle" and taken to her waiting car.

The next 2 days are a blank.

Upon returning to Pattaya yesterday he began to regain his senses and at some point snatched his (ex) GF mobile away and checked her sms list finding a generic mobile service provider alert stating "Welcome To Cambodia".

Our belief is Nick was not taken on a scenic drive to photograph the lush jungle on the Thai/Cambodian border rather he was probably slated to never be seen again.

However our vocal and timely intervention, breaking into his house to retrieve evidence, documents and ensure he, himself wasn't on the premises and thus summoning the police (via his gf's sister to report that we had broken in who also contacted the gf and alerted her to the situation) probably threw a monkey-wrench in her plans to secretly and silently make him disappear.

The gf's story after changing several times then stated that Nick was with her, in fine health and didn't want to speak with anyone (including police) but that she and him would return the following morning.

Myself and Harvey waited from 6am to around 8:30am for her to arrive at the time she indicated she would but she eventually showed up around 10-11am at which point Harvey was contacted and the events of yesterday unfolded.

I would like to say that she has been charged and is in custody for the crime (drugging, kidnapping) but alas it is not the case.

So it begs the question why is his lawyer not getting him access to his own home?

How is it unknown if he has his cards in his wallet or not? surely his business partner is able to ascertain this important info.

This is all unfolding and negotiations between Nick's lawyer, the ex-gf and the police are ongoing.

His business partner may know but I haven't been informed specifically other than I was told that when Nick was asked where his passport and ATM card were he replied he was uncertain.

Bearing in mind that he has apparently been drugged for the last 60+ hours and there is a lot of confusion both in his mind and in the information I am receiving.

Whose house is it?

Does he have a lawyer in Pattaya?

What part does she play in the business venture?

Does he still have his bank cards on his person?

Can you take him to the hospital for a test on the drug you mentioned?

What are the police doing about the abduction of him?

So many questions need answering but this thai lady seems very clever or as per usual just plain brazen in the face of the law

Nick's house.

Nick has a lawyer in Pattaya.

Unknown but assumed to be a Thai nominee.

Unknown.

Initial doctor visit said 2 weeks for blood results and Nick wanted to seek better and faster care but has not been able to as of yet.

Police are currently conducting "investigation".

How does Nick own a house in Thailand ? Americans can own 100% of certain companies, but can not own a house like any other foreigner.

He bought it.

Are you for real?

http://www.ajarn.com/blogs/neil-mcdonough/how-a-foreigner-can-buy-real-estate-in-thailand/

Whose house is it?

Does he have a lawyer in Pattaya?

What part does she play in the business venture?

Does he still have his bank cards on his person?

Can you take him to the hospital for a test on the drug you mentioned?

What are the police doing about the abduction of him?

So many questions need answering but this thai lady seems very clever or as per usual just plain brazen in the face of the law

Nick's house.

Nick has a lawyer in Pattaya.

Unknown but assumed to be a Thai nominee.

Unknown.

Initial doctor visit said 2 weeks for blood results and Nick wanted to seek better and faster care but has not been able to as of yet.

Police are currently conducting "investigation".

An odd story now. Since the wife is free and perhaps rummaging through his papers, is it safe to assume a police swat team did not break into her house and find Nick trussed up with a IV drug line in his arm?? The ownership of " his" house is somewhat irrelevant and a long term separate issue. The police certainly should have allowed him into the house to collect personal papers..

We think that Nick has been dosed with a hypnotic as he appears lucid but has no memory of the past 3 days (he may still be operating under the effects of some drug).

IF he was under the influence of a powerful sedative for the last 60 hours he would certainly not be behaving in a normal manner as he appears.

Scopalamine (or something similar) should not be discounted.

Whether she managed to drain his bank accounts prior to returning him has yet to be established as only Nick will be able to ascertain his balance now that his accounts are frozen.

The lady in question returned him to Pattaya and appeared to wait at the house for police to come and we assumed that Nick was in the clear but the events of the past several hours indicate otherwise.

Sad for the Springer family and friends. This is a typical Thai story. Note the comments by Sims - "there is a lot of crime here." Well, that's obvious but too general. Kidnapping for ransom or some other sort of personal gain is a common thing. This story should be a caution to anyone contemplating living in Thailand and most certainly the proviso regarding going in to business in Thailand. As a known TV mafioso, Tony Soprano would say, fuggeddaboutit.

Thailand is a valuable and robust trading partner with the US for export goods and manufacturing as detailed here:

http://export.gov/thailand/doingbusinessinthailand/

I am rarely shocked by what i read this days, but this one is a bit of a shocker.

Why would someone kidnap him? this is just crazy

The conjecture is for his money.

He is still in trouble and has yet to receive justice or reclaim his house.

If anyone can help please PM me.

I would like to know more details and how he is involved in this, kitchen cabinet and woodworking factory?

How does an American manage to acquire permission and permits to own such a factory in Thailand?

Could he have used his Thai girlfriend of any of her associates as upfront names for the running and owning of businesses in Pattaya?

What role does Harvey Sims, Springer’s business partner in Thailand have in this and what sort of business are they involved in?

All I am trying to do is look for motives and what sort of people these business partners are involved with?

How any of this is germane to the criminal matter at hand is specious.

The facts as I understand them is there is a criminal malfeasance afoot and the specific details of their business partnership are both proprietary and inconsequential in resolving the matter.

In the process of filing a police report Nick and Harvey were informed
that the officer in charge wouldn't be available until after 9PM and
that they should go home and return at that time.

Nick requested police assistance in returning to his home which is now
occupied by his ex-gf and her uncle (?) and was told that there was
nothing to worry about and he should return alone.

Nick wanted to retrieve important documents and personal valuables from his home so that his ex couldn't get her hands on them.

Upon returning to his home he was confronted by development security
guards who in addition to his ex denied him entry to his house at which
point the police were summoned and his ex accused Nick of attempting to
break into his OWN home which she claims as her property.

Harvey and Nick were then escorted by police back to the Dongtan
substation where they currently wait and wonder if they are to be
charged.

We are very worried about this ongoing situation and if any ex-pat
community members have recourse or resources to lend at this time to
either raise public awareness or intervene in this matter we could use
the help.

Note that all of the information about this case is coming in first hand
and I am only recapitulating what has been reported to me.

Tai Chi or Qi Gong is something I am also interested in.

Great to hear that Jazz is alive and well in Pattaya!

Are you playing, Peter?

Hope to drop in next Fri.

Initial Report

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/563192-canadian-sisters-died-of-food-poisoning-in-thailand-hotel/page__hl__%20canadian%20%20sisters%20%20phi%20%20phi%20%20island

""Forensic officials found vomit in the room, blood on their lips and gums and their fingernails and toenails were blue," lieutenant colonel Rat Somboon of Krabi Provincial Police said, adding there were "signs of serious food poisoning."

Follow Up Details

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/563633-contaminated-food-may-have-killed-canadian-sisters-phi-phi-island/page__hl__%20canadian%20%20sisters%20%20phi%20%20phi%20%20island

"Dr Pornthep Siriwanarangsan, head of the Disease Control Department, said the initial investigation in the room found a large quantity of vomit and faeces. There was evidence of bleeding and their nails had turned black, probably caused by internal bleeding."

Ms. Kay's Version

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/563936-scot-left-stranded-on-phi-phi-island-after-her-canadian-friends-poisoned/page__hl__%20canadian%20%20sisters%20%20phi%20%20phi%20%20island

"Ms Kay said investigators found evidence of vomit in the hotel room and told how the sisters had skin lesions, bleeding gums and blue fingernails, which can be symptoms of poisoning."

(emphasis added)

There is no underestimating the toxicity of whatever was ingested as it proved fatal.

Whether by misadventure or through the malfeasance of a third party these girls were most likely poisoned though by what route and using which chemical is the question.

Neither DEET, methanol nor scopolamine poisoning seem to fit with the poor girls condition when discovered, organophosphate or carbamate poisoning seems possible with the observed state of the bodies when discovered.

Moderately severe organophosphate and carbamate insecticide poisoning cases exhibit all the signs and symptoms found in mild poisonings, but in addition, the victim:

• is unable to walk;
  
• often complains of chest discomfort and tightness;
  
• exhibits marked constriction of the pupils (pinpoint pupils);
  
• exhibits muscle twitching;
  
• has involuntary urination and bowel movement.
  

Severe poisonings are indicated by incontinence, unconsciousness and seizures.

The order in which these symptoms appear may vary, depending on how contact is made with the pesticide. If the product is swallowed, stomach and other abdominal manifestations commonly appear first; if it is absorbed through the skin, gastric and respiratory symptoms tend to appear at the same time.

http://www.headlice.org/faq/treatments/signs-symptoms.htm

Symptoms of organophosphate or carbamate poisoning:

• Bladder and kidneys
  
  • Increased urination
    

  [*]Eyes, ears, nose, and throat

  • Increased salivation (drooling)
    
  • Increased tearing
    
  • Small pupils
    

  [*]Gastrointestinal

  • Abdominal cramps
    
  • Diarrhea
    
  • Loss of appetite
    
  • Nausea
    
  • Vomiting
    

  [*]Heart and blood

  • Slow heart rate
    

  [*]Lungs and airways

  • Breathing difficulty
    

  [*]Nervous system

  • Anxiety
    
  • Coma
    
  • Convulsions
    
  • Dizziness
    
  • Headache
    
  • Weakness
    

  [*]Skin

  • Blue lips and fingernails
    

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002832.htm

Noting this report below and correlating to the bedbug problems endemic in Thai hotels:

Insecticide resistance in bedbugs in Thailand and laboratory evaluation of insecticides for the control of Cimex hemipterus and Cimex lectularius (Hemiptera: Cimicidae).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21936321

Overzealous use of pesticides?

Just from memory:

One of the farang ( Portuguese) guys who helped the girls to their room left a note stating, "Sorry..." Why?

The girls exhibited discolored fingernails, rash-like lesions on their bodies and bleeding from the gums and within the eyes. None of which seems to be a symptom exclusively to DEET ingestion.

They were unable to call for help or exit their room before they expired. Paralysis, unconsciousness or both?

If there were excessive amounts of DEET ingested and they had vomited profusely as reported why wasn't the chemical initially discovered in samples of the vomit taken months ago?

Still more questions than answers.

Bought this book in 1991. First published in the 60's I think.

You can get it now for free on PDF on the Internet.

I think it was first published in, like 1952 or something.

The dictionary in it lists an "aerodrome" as a word (sanarm bin) to give an idea of how dated some of the references are.

That said however, I have been using this very book to supplement my actual Thai language schooling and agree that it is a keeper.

It seems that the meanings of some words and idioms have either changed or undergone some evolutionary transformation but overall a good tome.

"please not use the internet."