jasreeve17

Mods, this thread hasn't provided any interesting debate - you might want to put it out of its misery...

Huey,

I've looked at your other posts, in which you come across as a young spoilt brat... Life experiences will likely be a shock to you in the years to come. I won't be bothering with Huey the Kid, anymore; bye, mate.

If you selectively cut and paste you can abuse anybody's words; it's a pointless exercise that's frowned upon.

Please feel free to comment on the thread topic with your 3rd post.

Huey, that's just the kind of stupidity I can't abide - please don't post any more rubbish on my thread.

We have all seen reds and yellows being equally violent... The PAD incidents you deny seeing, were shown around the globe on BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera, etc... This thread is not for your propaganda rubbish!

Ahh so now you see the need for censorship when it comes to opinions YOU don't agree with

That's par for the course with this guy.

"My thread"

oh brother, give it a rest.

Thank you for your 8 weeks, or 15 posts, worth of experience. Did you want to discuss ASTV?

Huey, that's just the kind of stupidity I can't abide - please don't post any more rubbish on my thread.

We have all seen reds and yellows being equally violent... The PAD incidents you deny seeing, were shown around the globe on BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera, etc... This thread is not for your propaganda rubbish!

Ahh so now you see the need for censorship when it comes to opinions YOU don't agree with

Huey, you're acting like a kid, mate.

This thread has a subject and most people are discussing it reasonably. Differing views are welcome, spreading one-sided blinkered hate is not.

The fact is: both sides have been violent. Everyone has seen it from both sides. You, Huey the Kid, choose to deny reality and splurt your rubbish. Frankly, if you say that you have never seen the pictures of the PAD guy and his mate with the photoframe shooting at unarmed taxi drivers, and you've never seen the footage of the PAD guy running over the policeman then you are either very badly informed for somebody with such a strong opinion or you're a liar...

I suggest that many thread owners would have contacted the mods by now for deletions... I don't believe in that method, better for people to see your childish manner and label you as they wish...

This might be the most awfully written article I've ever seen in an English language newspaper...

Thaihome, you are choosing not to see...

I stated very clearly: The current industries are causing huge problems - as per the long list that we both added, I used your Leukemia and other cancers example. If the current industries cannot be correctly managed, and they can't as you have said several times, then we need to fix that before we expand. Simple: Something is not working properly. First, fix it.

We have seen that the current industries are causing huge problems (yes, many benefits too), and these problems are killing people and destroying the environment. No, I am not joking or over-reacting, they are killing people and destroying the environment. That is a fact. When these problems are fixed, so that the industries no longer kill people and destroy the environment then we can look to expand the industries.

Your second paragraph is nonsense. I am all for the free market economy and making money. However, I believe that the big dollar sign does not take away responsibilities. I'm sure you do not support the ill practise that causes kids to die from luekemia; neither do I. Secondly, I'd prefer to make less profit now, personally, and for my grandchildren and great grandchildren to live a healthier life in a better environment. Yes, I do care more for our children than I care for myself.

Regarding your last sentence: I simply said we must clean up the current industries; I did not say close them down...

Huey, that's just the kind of stupidity I can't abide - please don't post any more rubbish on my thread.

We have all seen reds and yellows being equally violent... The PAD incidents you deny seeing, were shown around the globe on BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera, etc... This thread is not for your propaganda rubbish!

The industry does seem to attract the crooks...

The Italian PM is having probs with his law makers this week who are trying to bring him to justice.

The ex-Istraeli PM is up on corruption charges.

I love to see these corrupt soandsos put away - justice for all. Good on the Kiwis.

I agree with the premise that if you don't like it then don't watch it.

On the other hand (hate this transition...), I'm also worried about media being used as a political propaganda tool, and also about conflict of interest issues.

Somebody mentioned to me today: Samak was kicked out of PM office because he used a cooking show for making political comment, DTV was closed down for political associations (some folk will say promoting violence, but I watched both and saw little difference between the two - other than ASTV was more sophiticated), so why is Sondhi being treated differently?

My feeling is that ASTV will be allowed to stay up whilst Sondhi is pro-army(ish). If he starts speaking out against them and gathering support than the channel will be quickly closed down.

Thanks for your blinkered view Insight, and your attempt to divert away from the question (which you didn't address for one iota of a second)...

Please stick to the topic: ASTV.

I was addressing a point you made. Is that not allowed?

Of course, debate is good. But, Insight, you just attacked without even bothering to comment on the core thread - there's too much of this on Thaivisa (I do it myself sometimes, but I'm trying to kick the habit...), and it goes nowhere.

LoL jasreeve17, there you go, censorship in action. I would comment on it but that would be censored too

The mods do what the mods gotta do, or we'll all be sensored...

Regarding your earlier post:

All I look for is consistency Huey. We've all seen yellow shirts with guns shooting at unarmed people, in cars running over policeman - is that not violence too?

I see the reds and yellows as very much as bad as one another; to ban one and big up the other seems pretty unfair, either way it's done.

As you stated above, sensorship is a very tough subject with, often, unclear divisions. Personally, I'd rather live in a world with less sensorship and the occasional 'problem', than a perfect looking world with heavy sensorship. In this way, the thread seems to be pretty optimistic too...

VIBE said: 'Are you religious by chance? Not one the the missionaries I see riding around on bikes trying to convert the locals are you??

You know nothing about me, or how I give to those that are more needy than myself. You my friend, live in a bubble of ignorance. Just because I care more for my own well being does not mean I dont help those that need it. Think about it.'

I retort: I thought about your statements above, and answered according to them.

I thought your line where you stated you care more about your OWN health than you do about the local kids... was a little gem. Says a lot about you...

TH, you basically reinforced what I said; many forms of pollution, luekemia, other cancers, corruption, intense industry mixed amongst living areas...

With regard to the other porsters comments; I won't bother having a discussion with a poster who feels that his financial portfolio is more important to him than local children's health...

As far as a global answer goes, as I'm sure you know full well, we must use a multitude of efforts to divert away from polluting fossil fuels towards sustainable and people / environment friendly solutions. The days of raping our resources without care will soon be over; either because we over-pollute the planet and all die... Or, because the resources just run out... Nobody knows for sure...

I like the way you got passionate about the Nigeria analogy; it shows that you understand how big industries and corrupt governments can work together to thoroughly rape a nation. This is a danger in our home that we must protect against.

My argument remains the same: until the existing industries are completely cleaned up and we can trust the industry / laws / politicians. then we should not be building more and more industries. Firstly, we need to manage what we have - which you keep pointing out we have not. Let's start at the beginning and make it right, instead of just focussing on making more money. Frankly, these businesses have proven incapable and unwilling to sacrifice profits and correctly maintain their businesses. For example:

Thaihome said: 'Yes, in some of the older plants there are discharges which have caused leukemia and other cancer clusters in cases where people are directly downwind or have used shallow wells for household water. The rates for Rayong are the highest in Thailand and something needs to be done and is being done to keep this from continuing.'

Well, TH, let's fix these problems first before looking for more profits...

Well, it damaged my confidence, and I sold my holdings in the stock. Sure Im not the only one....

Vibe, with all due respect, I care more about the health of the local kids than I do your portfolio...

(I'm sure you must be throwing a line, but I'll bite anyway. )

The health of the local kids is NOT your responsibility, so why are you trying to make it yours? There would would be a much better place if everyone focused on themselves and theirs instead of what they think is in the best interest of others. Your intentions may be good, but it just does not work that way. This, is the reality.

I care more about my OWN health than I do about the local kids, so does that make me a bad person? That I would use profits from my stocks to better MY OWN situation? My own life is the only one that I have direct control over, so I tend to focus on that, that which I can control.

To answer your question: Yes, it does make you a bad (selfish, irresponsible, insensitive, socially damaging) person.

Vibe, you are ranting. You don't know me, and you're not ably defending the pollution issue either.

I can assure you that I practice what I preach, making choices for sustainability. I also work to educate others on the issue, for positive sustainable change... Because, as you say, we are all part of the global problem, and we must all 'buy into' the global solution - well said.

With regard to the specific issue: the companies involved are directly responsible and must act accordingly. Ranting at me won't take away their responsibility.

Well, it damaged my confidence, and I sold my holdings in the stock. Sure Im not the only one....

Vibe, with all due respect, I care more about the health of the local kids than I do your portfolio...

(I'm sure you must be throwing a line, but I'll bite anyway. )

Thanks. I read a lot of the posts, but don't post very often. It seems pointless to listen to the yellow choir sing to themselves.

It's weird really because they are both clearly intelligent and write many interesting posts... Until anything PAD crops up then their IQ's seem to halve and otherwise rational minds start ranting nonsense.

Actually, I'm not sure that Plus is one individual because the writing style chops and changes between fluent native speaker and average second language speaker... Animatic is of course very unique with his language style (sometimes very nice to read, sometimes frustrating).

Wow, how many posts did you and the meatpuppet just create back and forth so you could flame Plus and others for being stupid?

And Credo, your post-count isn't "low" for the time you have been here, not even close...

Sorry TAWP, that I missed you out; quite an oversight...

(And what's a 'meatpuppet"? )

I Voted No. I agree with Kwai in the sense that Media should not be politically censored HOWEVER, Unlike Winne the Kwai, I don't have any problem with Royalists or the Monarchy. And I think it's time for stronger measures to shut down the ignorance of the violent ,red shirt mob rabble that Toxin and his hired thugs are stirring up.

Huey, thank you for your vote. With regard to your comment: you start by saying you don't agree with political sensorship, then go straight into a little rant in support of political sensorship. This is very dangerous.

I don't like ASTV's message, but that's irrelevant. I don't like the red shirt leaders either, but that's irrelevant too. We either have freedom of speech or we don't. The law must be blind.

To say we must have freedom of speech and no political sensorship, but solely for the groups I support, not the groups I don't support, is pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

TH, do you work in the industry? You do make some reasonable points, with bias, perhaps?

The burning, the toxins, the leaking of pipes on land and under sea, the chemicals used, the intensity of the built up area; amongst housing communities, massive sea pollution, massive air pollution, ground water pollution, extreme rates of leukemia and other cancers which are directly linked to the byproduct pollutants from the industries. The problem is far greater than you're suggesting, and comparing Thai problems with international problems doesn't magically eradicate our problems or take away our local responsibilities...

This area is a huge problem, which as you rightly state, is unsolved. We should not be heaping more problems upon the existing problems - and let's be honest here: it's for financial gain, pure and simple.

This whole area is a case of money being more important than peoples lives and the environment. You can try to belittle the fact by talking about economic gains, but dead people with deformed kids and infertile land wouldn't agree with you - of course they don't benefit very much economically anyways. (You could study the list of coutries you gave to prove this point - add Nigeria to easily see the benefits to local people: none!)

Publicus makes some solid points, and he makes them well.

Animatic said: 'Certainly the court is on the right track and this place MUST have strictly enforced controls.

AND clean up of existing destruction.' Now, I can speak some magic words - I agree with Animatic.

I also partially agree with TH; the existing problem needs to be sorted out.

Thanks for your blinkered view Insight, and your attempt to divert away from the question (which you didn't address for one iota of a second)...

Please stick to the topic: ASTV.

TH said: 'Note that not a word is said about cleaning up existing problems or plants. They have not figured out to get money of doing that.'

Yep, that's the awful thing TH. The state of the area is awful, well it's worse than that; it's deadly. My feeling is that all expansion needs to be stopped until existing problems are solved. As I said in another thread I've seen quite a few presentations (independent student projects) on this problem over the last couple of weeks, and it's unbelievably bad. I suspect many posters on this site have no idea about the severity of the problem...

Peter, folks can't feed or educate their children when they're dead; Look at the health studies, never mind the environmental impacts...

People's welfare and environmental concerns must come before profit and easy cash. That's why we have laws, which the courts are doing well to uphold - under duress from politicians acting on behalf of industry, and in direct conflict with their responsibility to the people who voted for them...

No. I hate those yellow pricks and especially Sonthi, but * NO * news source or source of opinion, even when it's utter royalist-ultra-conservative-claptrap should be silenced for any reason.

The problem in Thailand is that non-democratic forces such asmilitary and others and their puppet courts and puppet governments meddle far too much with basic freedoms. So keep those nutters in the air!

Freedom of speech is a good point Winnie, thank you.

My counter argument, as a devil's advocate, would be that, at this moment in time ,Thailand has a very one-sided idea of what freedom of speech means, so effectively you just get pro-government (well, pro army) propaganda. All TV channels are army controlled, the papers are heavily intimidated by the army and ASTV is right wing nationalist (very close to the army ideals).

So what freedom of choice do we have???

Freedom of speech is a strong argument. Spending time opening up the debate / media outlets to all, rather than clamping down on anyone (except extreme hate groups - do ASTV fit here?) would seem a good option.