bobbin

24 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   They have air tight doors in the tunnels and they keep the doors closed when not in use 

I would imagine that air-tight is not the equivalent of bomb-proof..

And if still standing bomb them again.

16 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The tunnels run under residential areas, hospitals, schools etc.

Not sure what you meant.

My understanding is the tunnels are quite deep.. And tunnels usually collapse on themselves, not necessarily causing the surface to collapse into a crater..

Every underground mining operation has individuals skilled at crating tunnels. That's how Hamas built them.

Reverse engineer the process with appropriate quantity of explosives..

So even though these tunnels run underneath Gaza city it still confines the fighting.. and almost every Palestinian casualty will be an appropriate casualty..

The above of course is not the end-game merely a good first step..

Why doesn't the Israeli military not focus on the tunnels? That's where Hamas lives, and it avoids the extreme dangers of fighting in an urban environment..

Drones. Equipped with infra-red and night vision cameras..and bombs. The tunnels are key infrastructure for Hamas and all connected. Not much point in dead-end tunnels.

This obviously would reduce significantly civilian casualties..

This current conflict in Israel is different from the Russia/Ukraine conflict, the other conflict engaging the World's attention.. The Russians are using WW2 tactics.. Indiscriminate missile and artillery attacks on civilians and vital infrastructure. Not to influence Ukrainian population, but to destroy lives and morale.. And Israel is using a modified version of the same..

The following is not original to me but comes from Thomas Friedman. A Jewish American reporter for the New York Times..

He suggests calling the Israeli response "Save the Children".  Hamas is holding hostages to shield themselves but most people do not look favorably on this tactic, so Israel should take advantage of this..

Call on Hamas to engage seriously on hostage/prisoner exchange. Attempting to rescue the Hamas hostages militarily will not end well for the hostages or those attempting to rescue them.

The following is my own input.. The previous exchange of 6000 Palestinians for 1 Israeli soldier, was a stupid move by Netanyahu, and by extension Israel. It completely ignored the future security implications for Israel. I believe many of the released Palestinians are active Hamas now, including several senior operatives. Plus it's not a good look... 6000 Palestinian lives are the equivalent of 1 Israeli life? No no..

Offer a maximum of 3 to 1. And that looks magnanimous on Israel's part. No senior Hamas or other big fish.  The hostages are a cross-section of Israeli society.. including many children and old people. Also known peace proponents who have helped Palestinian civilians with access to advanced medical care.  People for people..

Back to Friedman. He says that despite decades of experience, he does not know, and has never heard of, several far-right members of Netanyahu's cabinet. They are there to help Bibi remain on top and to stay out of jail.. but they want to absorb the West Bank and other anti-Arab initiatives. He goes on to say that all senior leaders of the military and intelligence apparatus have apologized to the Israeli people.. with the glaring exception of Netanyahu, the man ultimately responsible to the Israeli people. He has to go, and go quickly. That is not his plan. He is still hoping to stay on top and out of prison..

30 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Well, dunno....

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine#Casualties,

 

Either way, I agree with you that the way the British withdrew, not to mention the lame partition plan, did nothing but ensure war will erupt. Maybe there was a way to do it better, and maybe not.

 

Thanks for the link. 

Wow.. long read. I just skimmed quickly and I'll read it tomorrow morning.

Interesting the discrepancy in the casualty figures.

52 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

"The British Army Museum quotes a figure of 750 Military and Police killed from 1945-1948." Killed by Jewish terrorists? It's not clear. 

Yes

8 hours ago, Morch said:

 

"Proponents of a Jewish State were openly in conflict with British Authorities, killing many (many!) British soldiers."

 

If memory serves, about 150 British soldiers, policemen, and officials were killed by Jewish terrorists (1920-1948). The Arab Revolt in Palestine (1936-1939) resulted in at least double casualties figures than that.

 

The British Army and Police casualties figures you quote seemed low compared to references i had seen, so I did a quick Google...

The British Army Museum quotes a figure of 750 Military and Police killed from 1945-1948. This figure does not include injured..

Another interesting fact emerged.. From 1920 until 1939, when Britain curtailed Jewish immigration so as to retain Arab support for the war effort, 100,000 Jews emigrated to Palestine. That would certainly have added to the "local" Jewish population. A further 250,000 emigrated after 1945 and prior to the conflict between Arabs and Jews that occurred after the British withdrawal.

As earlier noted, the British became weary of the conflict with Jewish nationalists and departed prematurely, without a political solution in place. Essentially they left it to the Arabs and the Jews to fight it out amongst themselves...

Oh man..

The leg kicks this girl is going to be able to deliver!

14 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   That cannot be true , Israel wasn't given the Country by any one other  Country , the U.N voted on it 

Are you from the USA ?

I believe that it is true.. And if you think that JBCR is referring to the USA, then your knowledge of the background to this political/religious conflict is sorely lacking..

The British were given responsibility for the Palestinian Mandate after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in WW1. The French were given responsibility for Lebanon and other areas for the same reason. Neither were meant to be permanent...

At the end of WW2 Britain was still in charge and looking to discharge and end their responsibility for the Mandate. They were influenced by the Balfour Declaration but it was not a certainty which direction they were going to go..

Proponents of a Jewish State were openly in conflict with British Authorities, killing many (many!) British soldiers. They were what we today call terrorists. They assassinated the United Nations peace envoy, probably to ensure that there was no compromise agreement re the local population, including long-time Jewish residents (a minority). Meanwhile Jewish survivors of the Holocaust were pouring into the area... Cynics suggest that this was encouraged by various guilt-ridden European leaders...

After 3 years of conflict with various militant Jewish organizations, Britain prematurely threw in the towel and left early, leaving the Jewish nationalists as the military power on the ground..

And here we are..

Wow, the moon really is made of blue cheese..

I have a friend who is unfortunately susceptible to numerous conspiracy theories..  just tried to "educate" me again the other day about Covid vaccines..

We are close enough that I'm able to laugh out loud and he doesn't take offense.. thank the imaginary friend in the sky.

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

So a thousand people are holding 200 hostages, firing 500 rockets a day and keeping the innocent Palestinians from rising up against the hamas we are told they hate. 

 

That is good sh*t Homer...

I loves me weed.. but this is not the topic to be posting stoner memes.. and this is the second one in as many posts..

Maybe it's time for you to lay off the bong..

4 minutes ago, transam said:

I haven't read your thingy, I was pointing out the use of a confused emoji to you, sorry if you are confused... 😉

Got it. 

But sad you didn't read my thingy..

11 minutes ago, transam said:

Confusion has nothing to do with the topic, ol' chap, it is the written word that maybe confusing......😉

555

You can't follow what I wrote? Hmmm.

Oh no.. it's the confused emoji. If the topic is too difficult to understand best keep it to yourself..

A further thought on an exchange of prisoners held by the Israelis in exchange for hostages..

Apparently the last such exchange involved 6000 Palestinians for 1 Israeli solder.. Well, that was a stupid deal on the part of the Israelis, apparently spear-headed by Netanyahu for short-term political points while ignoring the long-term security implications for Israel.

Make the exchange negotiations public and transparent. And proportionate. The World will then have the opportunity to make their judgements. It's my opinion that this would be a more successful strategy for Israel..

As for allowing Hamas a "win" if the current illegal non-proportionate retribution is not allowed to continue..

Well, I think most of us are aware that Israel has been quite successful over the years in targeting and eliminating specific individuals..

I have no problem with a targeted response like this. Yes, it will take more time and it's not as flashy, but it is effective and will save thousands of innocent lives.

As for the innocent hostages, including many non-Israelis ( 20 Thais?), make a deal for an exchange..

There are none so blind as those that will not see..

I have the same bike and I have been thinking of selling it.. The old saying (maybe not so old because it mentions airbags..)

"On a bike you are the airbag.."

I've been riding bikes for about 56 years but..

Get well soon..

23 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

It’s like saying if Germany buys gas from Russia they will stop bombing Ukraine.

 

What a terrorist organisation is doing cannot be combatted by massacring thousands of innocents.

 

Hamas giving up their hostages is outside the ability of the innocent people being massacred.  It’s wrong for Israel to use this as a lever.

JBCR.. you and I have crossed swords on the Cannabis in Thailand issue but on this much more important issue I stand with you. Funnily enough, some of your allies in the Cannabis discussion oppose you in this topic.

Anybody trying to avoid the imposition of collective punishment will have my support. This is not an endorsement of the truly evil actions by some of the Hamas gunmen. I believe most of those beasts are dead already. One pundit noted that there seemed to be 2 groups in the Hamas attack. The first group, that did most of the evil acts carried no water, food or medical supplies. The second, "snatch" group had these supplies. The first group were literally suicidal and for most their wish was granted.

9 minutes ago, JimTripper said:

not sure why you would grow breasts with testosterone. that's more like what esttogen would do or lack of testosterone.

 

if you're lifting weight's that often it will enhance your breasts if you have fatty tissue there. all lifting does is increase chest muscles underneath the fatty tissue.

 

to kill off fatty tissue do something like swimming, not weight lifting.

Gynecomastia is the proper medical term. It's a not uncommon side-effect of TRT, usually associated  with higher doses.

3 hours ago, Pib said:

And now I have no rank...not even Newbie.  Even those folks with made-up ranks no longer reflect anything.  Just see the person's handle,  profile picture and a post count.  That's one way to get rid of the rank issue.

Me too..

Unfortunate, because as it shows now, no indication of the credibility of a poster..

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Any potential future Hamas members need to be wiped out as well , make sure there's no one to replace the current members who are being wiped out 

"Yeehaw..", he cried as he skied off down the slippery slope..

That is the one outcome guaranteed not to happen.