Oneman

It's not a demand side problem, it's a

supply

side problem Specifically, the quality of the supply ... unless/until

that

improves, why would women want to increase their libidos?!

A big thank you to "Sheryl" for two reasons:

1) For reminding us of the joys and pleasures of living in Thailand. Here we have an endless supply of Thai women all around. They are (mostly) petite, slender, pretty, polite, clever, know how to please a man ... AND they seem delighted with the "quality of the supply" (of farang men here). On the other hand, any men who are still back there in the "homelands", have to endure the "Sheryl" attitude every day, in every way. Thailand is the perfect escape for men, escape from women with the attitude quoted above. Ahhh, life is good here.

2) For encouraging me to mention a little-known, but very useful function here on Thai Visa: the ability to ignore all messages from any poster you wish. The Ignore User function is quick and easy to use. You can find step-by-step instructions on my member profile page. Of course, the "ignore user" function words on my user ID, too. I encourage anyone who might feel the least, little bit offended by my approach, to use it. After all, Thai Visa is a free market of ideas.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

the ultimate female aphrodisiacs remain money and power.

So true.

And, in this part of the world, we can add to that, white skin.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

I happened to eat dinner there last night.

Haven't been over there for many months, so was surprised to drive past and see it open.

Sign says restaurant is open until 9:30 PM, with last order 8:45 PM.

Sitting out on the little patio, surrounded by lots of plants, in the cool of the evening, can be quite pleasant.

I'm not a big fan of the Bake & Bite style of food, but, if you are, I recommend you try dinner there.

They have a separate menu for dinner.

I ordered a casserole with turkey, pasta, vegetables.

Food was okay, but did not inspire me to hurry back.

Bake & Bite does Western breakfast really well.

But, from my one experience, they haven't transferred their skill to dinner.

Perhaps in time.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

many C.M. sub-forum threads seem to be food-related, and I wondered whether this was in-any-way significant ?

That's a good question -- and you are not the only one wondering -- but it is a bad topic to open here.

Good question, for two reasons:

First: For a small city in the middle of the jungle, at the end-of-the-line to civilization, CM offers amazing variety and quality of food.

You don't see anything similar in most end-of-the-line towns, such as, say, Broken Hill, Australia or Yellow Knife, Canada.

But in CM, we have a cornucopia.

So, it is a significant comment about both expats and visitors here -- there are many who appreciate good food.

And, it is worthwhile to add, good wine, too.

Second: Food is one of the topics which is attacked least, by those posters who delight in pushing every discussion off-topic.

The attackers will pile on every topic, but somewhat less on food topics, (or topics about buying a specific item).

So, it is a significant comment about the sort of posts one sees on this forum.

Food topics are "safe" compared to some other topics.

For the bad part, simply look at what happens when anyone posts a thoughtful topic, or asks a thoughtful question.

Then the attackers come out in droves.

They are either drunk and angry, or resentful and angry, or bored and angry.

They've learned they can "vent" their anger on various Internet forums, at no risk to themselves.

You can observe them de-constructing every open forum related to Thailand, and most others as well.

("Open" describes the style of moderation, but that is not what I'm discussing here -- merely defining my terms.)

So, the preponderance of food topics is a significant indicator that many other topics, which might be posted here, are not posted here.

For myself, I'd much prefer to explore non-food topics.

Everyone on this forum shares a common interest in Thailand; the people, culture, social behavior, history, and current events.

Such topics would be much more interesting to me, and to a few others here.

But start any thoughtful topic, and watch it quickly get de-constructed into chaos, where "Lord of the Flies" rules.

Not just on this forum, but on every other forum I've seen about Thailand.

On the other hand, if I have missed a forum with consistently coherent and thoughtful discussions (on the subject of Thailand), I hope someone will let me know by private message.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

Akaligo in the Mandarin Oriental Dhara Dhevi. ...Farang Ses (sp?) there---it is supposed to have excellent French food.

Thank you, "neilrob", for offering those locations.

I just looked at the web site:

There is even one option to be served by the chef at a table inside the kitchen.

Now that's tempting!

Those suggestions helped me to think through and refine my request.

Special restaurants for special occasions are great experiences.

But I'm more seeking restaurants where one could enjoy eating often.

What hotel restaurants do we have in Chiangmai that are suitable for frequent visits?

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

I would never want to live in the big city. I did that for 5 years or so in Bangkok ... Last year I was in 7/11 and bought some stuff then went off to the bank 100 metres away and a you girl ran after me and gave me back a 500 baht note that I dropped and hadn't realised. ... Would this have happened in the city?

Actually, yes.

Four years in Bangkok and similar happened to me many times there.

Now in Chiangmai -- a small city with "big city attitude" -- and I experience gentle acts of kindness on almost a daily basis.

My conclusion from these experiences is this:

The smiles may not always be "genuine", but the Thai value of maintaining and promoting social harmony is genuine.

So I'll be staying in Thailand ... in a city.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

when I started to see past the tourist trail, was how indifferent the thais are towards us. ... they simply do not care whether we exist or whether we don't. It's like being a ghost.

Good observation, but wrong conclusion, and we can learn something from that.

What you are seeing is not indifference.

It is a combination of extreme politeness, extreme shyness, and huge difference in social class level.

Low class Thais make great effort to avoid annoying anyone higher in social class.

And farangs -- no matter how rude or slovenly - are considered better.

Plus, most low class Thais can't speak any English/German/Dutch/Swedish, etc.

So, they will avoid all contact with the foreigner, rather than risk a highly embarrassing lost of face on either side.

Frankly, given the type of farang who comes to thailand (many low life, cheap, angry, skin headed, agressive, drunks, uneducated, thai hating) i am amazed that Thai's are as friendly as they are towards us farang.

...So am I, but please remember the huge social value here on keeping "face".

Foreigners who can speak the language sufficiently to have an adult conversation with Thais, quickly learn that they despise us, most of us, especially the sort that "ExpatJ" describes.

And there are so many like that here.

The explanation for Thai friendliness comes from keeping "face".

The most common way to keep face is to deny unpleasant facts.

It is an unpleasant fact that Thailand has attracted, and has allowed in, huge numbers of low-life, riff-raff, foreigners.

That is a massive loss of face to the nation.

The friendliness we see is a great effort to deny that.

...It took years of hard work for me learn Thai language beyond just saying hello and ordering food.

But now that I can actually talk with Thais, many seem eager to tell me their feelings.

Thai culture does not allow for much discussion of personal feelings, so many Thais are eager to "unload" on me.

They tell me that most Thais find farangs disgusting.

They wish foreigners weren't here.

It is highly embarrassing to Thais that they need our money, and that they have come to depend on our money.

So, what do Thais do in embarrassing situations?

They smile and act friendly.

...I do not make for myself any illusions.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

The thai people they meet in the hotels and resturants ... are paid to smile

...That comment is right on target.

"Carmine" explained above, that it happens when a financial transaction is taking place.

I would expand that to say, smiles happens when value is moving to them -- financial, food, gifts, learning a few English words, a new house, etc.

Anything to their benefit, they will smile.

...And, we should keep in mind, they are trained to smile and they practice how to do it.

A recent girl friend worked in a 5-star hotel where the training program included how to greet customers.

She demonstrated for me what she learned in the training.

It was like a bright light suddenly turning on: the smile, the body language, the soft and sexy voice, full attention focused on the customer.

Then, when she finished demonstrating what she'd learned that day, the light switched off.

The performance suddenly stopped.

The face went blank, the body language slumped, and attention evaporated.

The change was dramatic and stunning.

The smiles are a well-practiced "act".

...Another way to observe this is to watch Thais with other Thais when no farangs are around.

Recently I found myself at Morchit bus station with a few hours to wait.

I found a quiet place almost hidden behind a pillar, and just settled in.

It was the perfect location to watch Thais with each other, when the others are strangers, not friends or family.

There are no smiles.

The faces are universally bland; no expression.

They show none of the excitement or focus we farangs experience in hotels, restaurants, shops.

With each other, Thais are in neutral.

What i dont get is people who have lived here a couple of years keep calling it the land of smiles. ... So why do people who have lived here a long time just fail to see what the real thailand is like.

...Many -- perhaps most -- long-stay farangs here are either (1) not "awake" or (2) drunk most of the time.

Most don't understand any of the language beyond a few words for food and beer.

They simply aren't aware of what's really happening around them.

But they do get the smiles ... because ... they have money to spend.

...On the other hand, something different happens often to me and probably to you:

Whenever I go into a shop or restaurant where I've never been before, the smiles flick on, the body language focuses on me -- just like they are trained to do.

If I speak English, the performance continues.

But if I speak Thai -- and my Thai is fairly good -- the smiles turn off, the body language turns away, the performance comes to a screeching halt.

They immediately realize they have little to gain from a farang who "knows too much".

...So, it this the Land of Smiles or not?

After 5+ years, I still enjoy the performance, but I understand it's purpose.

But, what is more important, I find the fundamental gentleness and kindness of most Thai people to be far more desirable than the sullen, self-interest which now pervades our Western home countries.

I have no complaints.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

.

This could get interesting -- especially at breakfast time.

B-is-B has a little web site here: http://butterisbetterbakery.com/index.html

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

criteria rules out the China Palace at the Holiday Inn

There are some superb Chinese restaurants in hotels here.

However Chinese restaurants may be a future research project for me -- not this year.

That's why my OP stated:

restuarant at The Chedi

Fai Kum at the Chiang Mai Plaza

Rio at the Ratilanna (Chiang Mai's only Brazilian restaurant)

Restaurant a de Naga hotel French and Italian cuisine

Thank you, those are exactly the sort I'm looking for.

And we're on the same wavelength, because I've been to two already: Faikum and deNaga.

I will add Rio and The Chedi to my list.

Restaurant at deNaga didn't occur to me, because it is in a separate building, out front, at the corner of the soi, but, certainly, it is a hotel restaurant.

So I thank you for jogging my memory on that one.

However, Faikum at Chiangmai Plaza hotel is a buffet.

Or it was last time I was there, about 6 months ago.

Has it reverted back to an ala-carte restaurant?

If so, I'd be happy to go back there.

The buffet was exceptionally good, but any buffet automatically comes with moral hazard attached.

By the way, I mentioned in the OP that Moxie (in the D2 Hotel) had terrible food.

I didn't finish the meal there, but, instead, walked down the street to Burger King.

It was better than Moxie!

Does anyone else know of other Western restaurants in hotels in Chiangmai?

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

I'm intrigued though. Why restrict yourself to hotels.

Fair question, but I don't want to get into a discussion about it on this thread.

It's difficult enough to keep any thread here on topic without offering more temptation to those who persist in going off topic.

So I will acknowledge your question here, and answer in a private message.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

What about Shangri la

The "Kad Kafé" restaurant in the Shangri-La is mainly a buffet.

See #4 in the OP:

I won't explain any more about here, but the trend to more and more buffets might be interesting in a separate topic.

I would give a pass on the Shangri La.

Thanks, Elek, but here I'm just trying to discover more hotel restaurants, not to evaluate them.

Once I know about those restaurants, then I'll go and do my own evaluation.

However, I do agree with you about Shangri-La.

It was with exactly that restaurant in mind that I wrote point #4 in the OP.

If others know of restaurants in the better hotels, I hope you'll mention them -- either on this topic or in a private message.

Thank you.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

only hotels means you are missing out on some good dining experiences.

Thanks, Caf, but I thought it was clear in the OP that my goal is to discover restaurants in better hotels in Chiangmai.

Nothing said about eating only in hotels.

Certainly not asking for advice on "dining experiences".

Found another one just today -- lunch at a small hotel with a very cozy restaurant and delicious food.

Quick service, too.

I'll go back a few more times, and, if it is consistent, I'll write a review about it.

So, seeking more good restaurants in hotels.

Appreciate all suggestions, but no buffets, thanks.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

Bugger,Bugger,Bugger

That was quick.

"Richards" has only 5 posts (as of now), and already he's qualified himself for my ignore list.

Thanks to frequent use of the "ignore user" function, this forum keeps getting better and better -- for me.

I hope that function is useful to others, too.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

Looking for good restaurants in Chiangmai hotels.

Can anyone suggest:

1. Fine dining
   (white table cloth style)
   or very good dining
   (without the table cloth).
   
   
2. European/American food.
   (Many hotels have Thai/Japanese/Chinese, but not looking for that.)
   
   
3. Must be in a hotel (in Chiangmai).
   (Not asking about stand-alone restaurants.)
   
   
4. No buffets.
   Buffets suffer from moral hazard trying to serve a lot of food at a little cost.
   
   

A few examples are:

• - Le Meridien - Favola (Italian)
  
  
• - Pornping Tower - Nimmanoradee Grill (steak)
  
  
• - Kantary Hills - Nimman Grill (steak)
  
  
• - Montri - Brix (not "fine dining", but consistently very good).
  
  
• - D2 Hotel - Moxie (terrible food, but it fits the request)
  
  

Are there others?

Reason for asking:

No, I'm not writing a travel guidebook.

This is purely self-interest.

In my travels, I've learned that in most places, one can usually get a dependably good meal, at a decent price, it the dining room of a good hotel.

So, I'm looking for more of that in Chiangmai.

And I will continue to post reviews here, as I have in the past.

Thank you for any suggestions.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

the Swiss Franc.

Elektrified:

Currency charts for Swiss Franc to gold during the past five years show a serious decline -- not quite as bad as the Pound, but plenty bad.

I'm not pushing gold -- I don't care one way or another about gold -- but what other safe haven is available?

I wish I knew.

...more money in circulation, as the longer it's held the less purchasing power it has, so spend it quickly before it becomes worthless ...

z9999 is right on target ... and offers us a fine, off-the-cuff description of hyperinflation.

And that's what worries me, too -- the massive volatility that is coming.

What we have is an incoming financial Tsunami.

This month, Pound and Euro down, Dollar up.

Next month, they trade places on the down and up curves.

Thai Baht will roller-coaster, too, as the Aussie Dollar has been doing these past few years.

Canadian dollar is not immune.

I haven't found any safe haven from the volatility.

Maybe buying a rice field in Isaarn would be a good idea.

Use my excess Baht to buy dirt.

If I could, I would, but farangs can't.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

The Swiss Franc. History shows the safety of being invested in the CHF.

I wish it were still like it was in history.

Years ago, the Swiss France was a dependable, safe haven.

But not any longer.

All the rules of this game are changing quickly, even for Switzerland.

A quick look at currency charts will confirm that even the Swiss Franc is on the decline.

Alas.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

If a currency falls, it must fall against something else - because that's what exchange rates are all about.

Thanks, Slim, for those comments, but I wish you knew a little more about international currency trends.

Yes, "it must fall against something", that's right, but it's only half right.

What you've missed is the "something".

I respectfully suggest you look more carefully, before you call foul or "nonsense".

Most currencies are falling against gold and other PMs.

Teletiger is close to the right track, but only close.

All currencies are falling against gold.

By that standard of measure, there is not one currency -- in recent years -- that is holding up.

(Currency charts are widely available on the Internet for all to see.)

Everything confirms Teletiger's signature, "A storm is coming".

So, for a financial safe harbour, what else might hold up (besides gold)?

Where else if not the Pound, the Euro, the Dollar, etc?

I wish I knew.

-- Oneman

Chiagmai

.

It's not the Baht that's strong it's the Pound and the Euro that are weak.

"Theoldgit" may be old, but he's is still sharp:

That's exactly what's happening, just that most don't think about it that way.

The Pound is falling.

The Euro is falling.

The Baht is falling, too, just more slowly, so it gives the illusion of being "stronger".

But they are all going down.

All over the world, every country's money is falling.

Thailand is no exception.

(Clever readers will ask, "Falling against what?"

That's a worthwhile question, but better saved for a different thread, because the topic here is the Pound and the Baht.)

This is not just a short term blip - this is the foreseeable future. There is nothing in the way of Sterling's fall. It will keep on falling because there is nothing that can arrest the fall. ... In 12 months time its likely that anyone wanting to retire in Thailand (800,000 in a Thai bank) will need about £25,000. ... I hope I'm wrong but I fear the worst.

Superb analysis.

Thank you, "Slim".

We might quibble about the amount of the "fall", but falling it is.

a number of expats have said enough is enough and returned to their homelands. ... I have to wonder what I would be going back to.

There is no "wonder" about it.

If your homeland is/was primarily English-speaking (UK, US, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc.), then its either going or already gone.

Similar with our European friends.

What we once had in our "home" countries simply is no more, and never will be again.

Not in the life time of anyone reading this now.

The cultural decay and the financial depression are too deep, have gone too far.

I'm staying.

There's nowhere else I can see that offers similar quality of life as Thailand, let alone any place better.

Yes, problems on the horizon -- not to be discussed here -- but there are problems everywhere.

I've assessed the risks and will take my chances in Thailand.

I'm open to further discussion -- on the forum, or in private messages.

(For this sort of topic, private messages are usually more productive.)

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

it's not asinine, it's actually smart if they succeed in cheating you.

Well said.

Penefattore clearly understands the Asian mind.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

Doubt the producer is getting any of that mark-up. A small bit goes to pay for the comfort of the mall and rest goes into the deep pockets of the Thai middleman.

L&J -

Would be interesting to know what are the actual markups for the middleman?

Can you give approximate percentages that you have observed?

Do you think there any way for producers and vendors to increase their bits?

Or is the middleman too firmly entrenched in the middle?

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

.

Thanks for posting information and photos about that.

Without intending to, I found myself in the midst of it earlier this evening, wondering, "What is this, all of a sudden?"

(I didn't notice the sign.)

OTOP products are almost always the best quality for each type of item they offer, so I'm happy to see them promoted.

But does Chiangmai really need another "walking street" market?

Another way to snarl traffic?

Another congregation of forlorn tourists wandering around, looking lost, buying nothing except a cold drink?

I think not.

And I'll wager that the costs of that promotion don't justify the returns.

For those wanting OTOP products, the "Northern Village" area in Robinson's Airport Plaza has a vast display, every day, all year long.

Plus, it is indoors and air conditioned.

And offers plenty of convenient parking.

Much more comfortable there, than a crowded Thapae Road on a Saturday night.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

Steak in the Italian restaurant, Favola, in the Meridien hotel ... That was the best steak I have had in Thailand. Costly no doubt about it, but great taste.

I went there earlier this week for dinner.

Easily 5 stars in all directions.

The hotel and restaurant have been open for two years, but it was my first time there.

Here's a brief report for those who enjoy fine dining.

On arrival, you'll see the open kitchen: perfectly clean and organized -- suggests confidence in the food preparation.

Refreshing towel as soon as you sit down -- just like first class airplane.

If eating alone, waitress offers a selection of newspapers -- just like first class.

But one jarring note: post-modern jazz on the sound system -- and slightly too loud, as the Thais tend to do.

As soon as you order, waitress changes the cutlery to fit your order.

Bread served quickly: five kinds of bread -- served warm, perfectly fresh.

But the breads are bland -- I expect they are from a commercial mix.

And with the bread, three kinds of spreads, also bland -- next time I'll ask for real butter.

My test of any Italian restaurant is the minestrone soup.

At Favola it is unlike any other I've ever tasted.

The flavor is subtle and sublime, not over-loaded with oregano as often in minestrone soups.

White beans with light flavor, rather than red kidney beans.

Broth and vegetables and beans are served in a unique way; separate arrangement in the same bowl.

I was very impressed with that soup.

My top two choices for dinner were prawn risotto and grilled trout (from the Royal Project).

I selected the trout, only to be told it is available only on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

Okay, something to look forward to next time, besides the steak recommended above by Mickmac.

I was very pleased with the risotto.

Waitress asked how I wanted it cooked -- that's normal with pasta, but not so common with risotto.

I asked for soft, and a good thing, because it came slightly "al dente".

So if you like risotto soft, be sure to emphasize that when you order.

In addition to the expected prawns in the risotto, there was a pile of grilled prawns on top as well.

And unless they fooled my taste buds, those prawns had the distinct flavor of charcoal grilling, not a gas grill taste.

My dessert was cannoli -- Sicilian cheese rolls.

These were made in pastry tubes with a delicate, chocolate flavor.

And served with a scoop of hazelnut ice cream in a sesame pastry cup.

Sounds like too much, but that combination of flavors was a perfect ending to the meal.

Everything at Favola was elegantly presented -- although I don't care for oversize plates, and the plates were really huge.

Service was eager, but slow and a little haphazard -- waitress waited for me to call, rather than anticipating what was needed.

For example, after finishing the soup, I had to ask for the next course.

My drink was never refilled from the bottle to the glass.

A refill of ice was not offered, but when I asked for more ice, it was delivered promptly.

So, service was not up to this level of dining, but, "mai-pen-rai", this is Thailand and with food of this caliber one must never hurry.

Music was not only too loud, the selection was unpleasant -- some jazz, but mostly a-tonal noise that never settled into a smooth rhythm.

It detracted from the meal.

My meal of soup, risotto, and dessert was 978 bath net-net -- no alcohol.

I was not trying to be economical, but that would be a minimum food check at Favola.

An average check could easily be 1,500 per person -- plus wine and cocktails.

I highly recommend this restaurant for anyone who enjoys fine dining.

From the Internet, I learned that Favola is the brand name of Italian restaurants in various Meridien hotels in other cities.

And, from another thread, apparently there is also a Meridien-Favola in Chiang Rai.

I have no experience with any of the others, only the Chiangmai location.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

(posting error)

I walked away with a 2 page personal print out listing some 26 items

What a thoughtful and helpful post !!

Thank you, Sparkles, for writing about your experience on this topic, with many useful and specific details.

-- Oneman

Chiangmai

.

And thank you, Asmerom, for helping me to add to my "ignore user" list on this forum.

Those wishing to be ignored clearly identify themselves.