bamboozled

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

OP, just a quick read through a selection of posts seems to indicate some confusion regarding which extensions and visa types you are asking about. Depending on the type of visa and extension - there are differences as to what is required.

 

When you state that you don't think the requirement for a financial statement showing adequate finances was there before, are you thinking about the requirements for a Multi Entry Non O (MENO) visa based on marriage?  I'm not sure if that requirement was on the consulate's website previously or not but for a MENO, they certainly didn't used to be physically asked for at the time of application. Ho Chi Minh was (is) regarded as one of the easier places to obtain a MENO without much supporting documentation.

 

 A 12 month MENO based on marriage gives you multiple 90 day stays in any 12 month period after which you must leave the country but you can immediately return and thereby start another 90 day stay.  A Single Entry Non O (SENO) gives you just that - a single 90 day entry. However, you can extend the stay on either of those visas in 2 ways:

 

1. A 60 day extension with very little documentation - certainly no financial requirements and no reporting.

 

or:

 

2. A 12 month extension which requires either 40,000 baht income from outside Thailand or 400,000 in the bank/40,000 baht income earned within Thailand if you have a work permit. You need to report every 90 days and there are also several other requirements for this type of extension.

 

Where they say, under Period of Stay, that the stay may be extended for 12 months - they are talking about an extension as per 2 above.  However, even though they talk about the stay being for a single entry, you will note that they give the prices for both single and multi entries.

 

The consulate itself is creating confusion by mixing the 2 types of visa MENO & SENO. I'm not sure whether that's because they have made changes and are not actually issuing MENO's now or not but I'm pretty sure that the website didn't actually refer to MENO's when I obtained my last one in March 2020 - they clearly did. I seem to remember that I phoned them (or e-mailed) to ask if they did multis.

 

At that time all I needed was my marriage certificate, registration and a letter from my wife asking that I be granted the visa in order to visit her (and of course the grossly inflated visa fee of $200).

 

Its early days just now and we won't know if Ho Chi Minh is still offering MENOS until someone tries and reports back.

 

I'm pretty sure the insurance they are requiring is for Covid 19.

 

 

Hi Khao Yai,

Thanks very much for your long and detailed response. That took a lot of time, I'm sure! I have had all of the above mentioned visas at one time or another. The confusion is in some of the details which you touch on and which no one seems to know the answer to but can make or break getting the visa. Case in point: can I get a ME, 1-year, Non-O in HCMC with no financials? We're not sure. And I don't know if that bit about showing "adequate financials" was on there before, or not. I know I didn't show anything when getting a previous ME Non-O.

For the extension here in Thailand, I have been transferring 40k every month. The issue is whether immigration will accept the Wise transfers. I have to speak with my bank about that today. The other problem is my wife is unavailable currently to see through a Non-O here in Chiang Mai (or 60 day extension) with me and I'm not sure she will be back in action in the 3 week window I have until my visa expires. That's why I was thinking of going to HCMC.

My newest thought after sleeping on it last night is to look into a Covid extension which I believe they are still granting. That would give me 3 months and hopefully my wife would be in a better position to see through the Non-O with me and/or we would have new info about feasibility of a ME in HCMC.

1 hour ago, Onerak said:

In Pattay, the retirement extension by agent fee is 15K for Non-O or Non-OA extension. No paper works needed. No TM 30 or 90-day reporting. No money in th bank, And No insurance for Non-OA. All those people who predicted gloom and doom and agent fees going up to more than 30-40K when insurance was introduced in 2019 were proven wrong. Agent fees have remained same. Not sure now due to inflation if it has gone up or not. I always feel the agent fees are the best money spent in Thailand because the process is so relaxing as it meant to be and money well spent. Of course, it also depends on the competition among agents. Pattaya has lots of options compared to some place out in the boonies. 

I lived in Thailand for two years using agents and prior to that I used to get O-A visa from USA when there was no insurance requirements as I already have my own high deductible insurance from United Health. Recently I found out insurance requirements have changed and now they are asking for 100K USD insurance (3.5 million BHT) and there is no separate OP and IP requirements any more. 

My suggestion for the OP Is to contact an agent if he is willing to pay agent fees to get a retirement extension. Again not sure his location and how much agents do charge in his location if available at all. 

Gee, that all sounds so wonderful and easy and not really expensive. I'm in Chiang Mai. The agent that was popular via a previous thread is also reported to be a bit expensive though I don't have a figure.. What's to prevent me from doing this in Pattaya? I have some homework to do re-agents and also about my transfers...if they will be valid or not. I'll keep the thread going with new info. Thank you very much!

Thanks for your input, Sandy. Ubon Joe mentioned 20,000k which is what I suspected. How would I know that nobody knows the answers without asking the questions? Somebody will be the first to do it and may be there right now....that's why I ask. It certainly won't hurt to talk with an agent, that is true. I've never gone that route so it feels a bit....peculiar.

Good point about insurance to enter Vietnam. I hadn't thought of that. It probably would turn into a pretty expensive little trip in the end.

Well borders are just opening up and more onerous regulations such as PCR tests before/after and mandatory hotel stay or melting away. It wasn't possible and/or worth the risk until May 1st. I'll bet some reports start to trickle in this week.

52 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Yes and No.

 

Yes - He was helpful as far as giving me some info I was after.

 

No - I posted what I was told here, and the resident experts agreed his info was false.

5555 oh man!

19 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Hopefully so.

 

In Feb. I was able to get someone in the Hanoi Embassy on the phone, but the HCM Consulate never answered after several attempts.

Were they helpful?

The multi entry is listed...or rather the option is there on the Non-O visa based on marriage. Whether they grant it or not, that's the questions, I guess.

Borders are open and I'm considering giving it a go in HCMC . I have written to the consulate today but so far no response. It SEEMS doable from what I can ascertain. But we need pudding. Where's the pudding? There in lies the proof. I will call the consulate soon if no email response.

Cheers!

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Think you can cross the ME Non O marriage from your list of options.

Why? HCMC is open....so it seems, at least. Savannakhet is tiny, of course. Not surprised it's closed. Saigon, not so tiny.

15 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

If you obtain a reply, please post it.

Have seen couple of reports of single entry non O from Phnom Penh but have not seen a report of ME non O marriage from places such as Saigon, Savannakhet etc.

 

Goog shows the Savannakhet consulate "temporarily closed".

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The info about insurance is not for the visa. It is just info to inform people what is required for entry to the country and that is what is required to get the Thailand pass. You would only need 30 days to get it.

Are you positive on that, Joe? The insurance requirement is posted under the visa guidelines on the HCMC site. It doesn't mention Thailand Pass. In the end, it might amount to the same thing at this date and time since for Thailand Pass you need the insurance. If they drop Thailand Pass and the insurance and they don't take out that wording from the visa requirements....anybodies guess. I'm not trying to be difficult, just thorough!

I sent an inquiry to the HCMC consulate about feasibility of getting the ME Non-O. Maybe will get a response.....

23 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Here is a thread regards agents in CM.

 

 

 

Thank you, Dr. Jack....

I'm under the impression adequate finances is 20,000 baht. I think that's what Ubon Joe said was necessary for the O-visa I recently obtained online (90 day validity) and isn't 20,000 baht also the requirement for a tourist visa? I could try calling the consulate or writing them to find out. This was in my US bank account. I could transfer the 400k if really needed. It would be somewhat inconvenient right now and a bit of a mental block but it's not impossible. Tying it up for 3 months is also inconvenient but not impossible.

Yes, I don't know if it's open but I haven't seen anything showing that it isn't. The issue before was the border crossing and though that is still more difficult than previously, I don't think it's still impossible. Here are the current regulations to enter VT:

"In light of the recent COVID-19 outbreak, Vietnam has imposed several travel restrictions on those entering the country. As of April 27, 2022, Vietnam had confirmed 10,620,203 cases of COVID-19 with 43,029 deaths, though 9,116,225 of the patients, had recovered.

Those planning to travel to Vietnam should be aware of the latest restrictions currently in place:

• Ho Chi Minh City’s health department has stated that people arriving at Ho Chi Minh City’s Tan Son Nhat International terminal will no longer need to prove their COVID-19 status from May 2. The decision was made as passengers are required to present a negative COVID-19 test prior to boarding, therefore the requirement to check once arriving in Ho Chi Minh City was not needed and will help ease congestion. Authorities also plan to scrap health declarations for domestic travel soon.
• Vietnam’s Ministry of Health on March 15 released COVID-19 entry procedures for foreign arrivals as per Official Letter No 1265/BYT-DP. As per the Document, foreign arrivals are required to:
  • Take a COVID-19 negative test using the RT-PCR method 72 hours before entering Vietnam OR a rapid Antigen test (no self-test) 24 hours before entering Vietnam. This does not apply to children under 2 years of age;
  • Make a health declaration (screenshot at end of article) before entry and download the PC-COVID app; and
  • In case a COVID-19 test is not taken prior to departure, a test will be taken within 24 hours after arriving in Vietnam. If negative, travelers can travel anywhere within Vietnam; no quarantine required.
• Tourists entering Vietnam should also have medical or travel insurance that covers COVID-19 treatment with a minimum liability of US$10,000.
• The e-visa government website link is now open for visa submissions."

I understand the difference between the two. My point is, that small difference doesn't matter much to me perhaps because the fundamental element is the same: that I can stay for a year. They both require something to be done every 90 days. Border run to Mae Sai is no problem and a fun excuse for a trip. Hmm, of course, with Covid that border bounce is not going to be so easy unless things loosen up a lot more. I hadn't thought of that issue! Ugh.....that makes a case for the extension route either marriage or retirement.

Agent recommendation in Chiang Mai?

12 minutes ago, vinci said:

he wants extension but no fund, covid extension but wife can't attend, going outside Thailand for a non-o quick-fix

 

Saigon or Savannakhet does not need to see adequate finances for non-o

what you see is $20,000usd insurance cover to enter Thailand, Thailand require you to have insurance to enter the country

 

honestly just go try covid extension without the wife and see doesn't hurt to try, rather then go through all the trouble

You may be right on the covid extension as the best route to buy time. I don't think my wife needs to be there for that as it has nothing to do with marriage.

The Saigon website mentions you need to show adequate finances....first line at top of screenshot. I have gotten a Non-O there in the past without showing any financial statement and in Savannakhet a few times, too. I'm not sure if this is a new requirement and if so what exactly is the requirement or if this was always there but the immigration officers didn't check.

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Best keep eye on the ball.

Either a non O visa that gives a 90 day permission of stay then followed by 12 month extension.

 

OR a ME (multi entry) non O that is valid for 12 months and allows 90 days per entry.

Previously Savannakhet was popular to obtain these.

 

Not sure if Savannakhet or Saigon are doing these at this time. I know Phnom Penh is only single entry non O.

 

No offense but it's not clear what you are looking for.

An extension to your  non O or a ME non O marriage.

 

Sorry for that, I don't really differentiate between the two as they both give you a year of stay (15 months for the ME). Either one will work for me. I'm just looking for the path of least resistance. I am more used to the ME entry. For many years, I had a ME B visa....and then once married, I would get the ME O visa based on marriage. I never had a problem with documents and the process was always straightforward. I have only done the extension/permission to stay once and found the process more frustrating and uncertain than a trip to Saigon or Savannakhet. The Saigon website seems to indicate they are still issuing them and the visa form is the same. Of course, there is only one way to be sure which is to go there and try.

17 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Wise can be a problem but you may be able to download the receipts for them from Wise. Immigration might accept them as proof they came from abroad. Some banks may able to do a credit advise for each transfer to prove the came from abroad. A bank statement would not show them as foreign transfers.

 

You will need everything mentioned for every one year extension of stay application.

 

It $10,000 covid 19 insurance to get a Thailand Pass to enter the country at this time. Thirty days of it would be enough to get the Thailand Pass.

You wife will need to be with you to apply for a 60 day extension.

The Saigon consulate website mentions health insurance covering the period of stay which would be 90 days. True, when I got my last Thailand Pass, the insurance agent advised I only needed 30 days of insurance even though the period of stay was 90 days and indeed I didn't have a problem.

Do you have any input on what the Saigon consulate wants to see for "adequate finances"? I think (hope) they mean 20,000 baht such as was the case for the online visa I recently obtained (thanks to your advice). Maybe I'm silly or stupid but I find the idea of going to Saigon for the visa (or Savannakhet but that consulate is closed), if it is more or less as simple as pre-covid, more appealing and straightforward than dealing with immigration here with the wife out of commission. She is in the hospital and I don't know when she will get out, in what condition she will be in mentally, nor can I speak with her. My visa is up in 3 weeks. True story. <deleted> happens.

Thank you, Bam

7 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

First up an agent for extension based on retirement would be approx 15-20k.

Pattaya closer to the 15k.

As for obtaining another non O in eg Saigon....

I have often wondered why guys that cannot place funds in bank for few months, don't just do back to back non O,s.

Somehow doubt it would fly? Perhaps once.

Dr. Jack, I'm in Chiang Mai. That's not a horrible amount of money to pay. That requires the 800k in the bank or not necessary? What would change for me going from a Non-O marriage to the retirement?

I don't quite follow your comment on Saigon. Before Covid, more or less, I went to Savannakhet or Saigon to get my Non-O. I did not at that time have 400k to put into an account and I found it very simple with no worry about extensive documents or financials or TM30s or home visits plus it was a neat little trip. Being in CM, going to Mae Sai and crossing the border every 90 days was easy enough. I was happy with this for many years but Covid nixed that for me and many others. If things are up and flying again, I assume guys will go back to doing that type of Non-O, unless the rules have changed. But it doesn't appear they have though I don't have clarification about "adequate finances" and, of course, even though the visa is granted one could still be refused entry at the border.

Okay, I understand on the marriage extension by agent. It sounds onerous. A good step might be to go to immigration and explain the situation about the wife. Perhaps they'll throw me a life-line and allow me to get a doctors note about her condition and why she cannot appear at immigration. Then I can check if my bank transfers will pass muster or I can transfer the 400k.

The thing that makes obtaining visas "confusing" (and posting questions about them) is that there is a specific set of circumstances that have to happen in a certain order and if one is out of whack the whole process fails. And there is often not a one-size-fits-all scenario.

Thank you.

14 minutes ago, vinci said:

totally confusing, so basically he wants an extension of stay (marriage) in Thailand but don't have the 400k, he wants to try and go to hcmc to get an (single non-o?) or (multiple non-o?), hcmc does not require you to have the 400k fund for non-o, the insurance is for you to enter Thailand because of covid they required you to have insurance

What do you mean "he"? I'm right here.

6 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Given a few difficulties that you have mentioned....

Wife's situation...

Not adequate funds in bank (you would require funds in bank method)..

I suggest that you use an agent for extension based on marriage.

You most likely also need a 60 day extension to visit wife to buy some time. 

Do you have a Thai bank in your name. 

 

Yes, I have a bank account in my name. I went through the whole Non-O visa process about 16-18 months ago...money in the bank, photos, witness, etc... I put 400k in the bank and seasoned it for 2 months by obtaining the 60 day extension to visit wife. This was the around the time when immigration switched their financial requirements. I can't recall exactly but the requirement had been something like 2 months of transfers of 40,000k...that was all that was required. And then suddenly they stopped accepting that and wanted a full year or the 400k for two months. You probably remember. Ubon Joe intimates that perhaps my 40,000k transfers per month can be verified at the bank as international. But all this still requires my wife's presence and that is a big question mark.

Any agent recommendations and ball park costs would be appreciated.

Again, why not Saigon consulate? Is that not an option?

Thank you.

16 minutes ago, Caldera said:

For any extension based on being married to a Thai, the Thai spouse needs to be present at immigration with you.

 

You could consider using an agent for a retirement extension without the required funds.

 

You've mentioned obtaining a Covid extension and that might also be a short-term option, depending on your immigration office. Some give Covid extensions to those on non-immigrant visas, others don't. 

If I were to use an agent, why would I not use one to obtain the marriage visa instead of retirement visa? I'm not sure of the cost of something like that, any input?

The Covid extension....I just saw posts about that yesterday while looking for info on Saigon consulate so it was in my head. I'm don't recall how long a stay is granted and yes, it would seem strange to have that after an O-visa but perhaps explaining the situation with my wife would help.

...and thank you!

28 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Your wife would need to accompany you to immigration for either extension, 60 days or 1 year. How old are you? If 50+, you have other options (retirement extension) that wouldn't involve your wife. 

Hi Caldera,

Thank you for your reply. I'm 53. Are you sure she needs to be present for the 60 day? The retirement extension would require double the money. I would have to dig into my investments to put together that cash which would be unfortunate. I think I would look for other options before doing that such as Covid extension, tourist visa, or another online O visa though I'm unclear if I have to be in the US to do that. None of these options would last very long but they might buy enough time for my wife to recover her wits. I think I would give Saigon a shot, too, though I'm still sifting through that info to know if it is indeed an option.

Thank you again, Bamboozled (still).

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

You can apply for a 60 day extension to visit you wife to get more time to apply for a one year extension.

Do you have a 12 months of transfers that are at least 40k baht. You can get credit advises from you bank to to prove your Wise transfers came from aboard. 

The insurance requirement you mentioned is only needed for entry to the country and to get a Thailand Pass and since the 1st of this month has been reduced to $10,000 .  

Joe, I do have the transfers but they were made with Wise so I'm not sure they will cut the mustard. Going to the bank to get my printout is on my to-do list. My understanding is that if Wise sent them with the wrong code, there is nothing the bank can do to show that they indeed came from abroad. Am I mistaken? It seems you might be suggesting that the bank, if prodded/advised, can prove that they were international.

Above and beyond the financials, I still need to fulfill the rest of the obligations such as photos in front of the house, witnesses, immigration visit, map to the house, etc....correct? Or since this is not my first Non-O, I don't need to do that again?

Insurance...you mean $10,000 USD of coverage....for 90 days, correct? And is the financial obligation in Saigon just 20,000 baht and not 400k? As far as you know, is getting the Non-O in Saigon now an option again? It sounds like it might be. As mentioned, my wife is not in a good way mentally and I'm not sure she will be able to go to immigration or be stable enough to host officers in the house. Is her presence required for the 60 day extension, as well, as Caldera mentioned?

Many thanks, Joe!