lupin

12 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Yes, it's state owned, this doesn't mean the persons working there speak for the state.

This would be as if you said the bank teller in a KTB branch speaks for the Thai government.

I doubt that every email which they send out gets approved by the Tourism Authority of Thailand.

I think thats's a ridiculous equivalency... but ok, do we think that the branch of KTB would put themselves in a position to be "not in accordance with the official rules." applicable to banks?

I dont see the value of getting into hypotheticals or the minutia of interpretations. I've simply said here is what Thailand Elite (a state enterprise owned by TAT) have said, here is the law that allows for what they have said ... and what people do with that info is "up to them"

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Thailand Elite is a private company, their only purpose is to sell as many memberships as possible.

The people there don't speak for the Tourism Authority of Thailand.

Thailand Elite is wholey owned and operated by Tourism Authority of Thailand

In July 2003, Thailand Privilege Card Co., Ltd., the operator of Thailand Elite Card, gained state-owned enterprise status within the Tourism Authority of Thailand (“TAT”), its sole shareholder.

4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Thai government changed the law (ministerial order), to have such effect. They didn't change the ministerial order about Thailand Elite, so as it currently stands the permit to stay does not expire when the membership ends, and the notice given by Thailand Elite is not in accordance with the official rules.

...might not matter that we believe Tourism Authority of Thailand "is not in accordance with the official rules."

14 minutes ago, G950 said:

The response from Elite is unbelievable - they have no shame.  If the IO stamps you in for 1 year then you are not an overstay under any circumstances. 

The immigration law exists for such a provision... it is the same law that is will now be applied to those are required to have health insurance for the duration of their stay... if their policy does not cover the the full 1 year permitted to stay that you were to receive, then they only recieve permission to stay for the validity of the health insurance policy.

24 minutes ago, Blue flare said:

Lupin, it gets worse, I just checked my visa, looks like I read the badly smudged date wrong, it's 21st, this Monday....

hotel tomorrow night... with a trip to immigration monday?

Otherwise have to bite the bullet and see where the wind blows.

What you cant afford to do is get the extension wrong... you're gonna need the docs with your wife to get the TM30 filed on the same day (Monday) because you have no time to come back next day if the IO says you dont have matching TM30.

4 minutes ago, Blue flare said:

Lupin great thanks,

 

I just need to now think of an excuse for us to visit a hotel and delay my extension visit to IO because it runs out next Wednesday!

 

I seem to remember being a few days overdue a couple of years back and got fined, but it will be worth it!

Do not under any circumstances let the extension run out... do whatever you need to do to get it done in time. Otherwise you risk not having a valid permitted to stay stamp to extend... ???? 

The "oh wow I just won a 2 night stay at the blah blah hotel for this monday/tuesday" .. can sell it as "oh look and its close to immigration, lets stay there monday/tuesday so we can go do immigration next day"

13 minutes ago, Blue flare said:

So, are you saying that my last hotel visit showed me residing there, and as no TM30 was filed showing me returning home, then that will be the issue?

So could I file a TM30 for that visit now?

 

When I did my last 90 day report about six weeks ago nothing was said then, it showed my home address....

 

You are helping Lupin, but boy I am still confused about all this!

To answer your initial question... yes, you could go and file the TM30 now with all the needed docs (but this all requires your wifes house reg/her ID card etc... which means you'll need to get all that from her to do it yourself... otherwise your back as square one if she goes with you)

The alternative is to register the address online with the docs and file the TM30 online before going to do your extension....

If you DO go to immigration with the wife though...

At Bangkok immigration, when you do an extension, you need a valid TM30 and 90 day report that matches your existing address (the address you're using to make the extension)

(Bangkok immigration dont currently require you to have a matching TM30 when doing 90 day reporting, which is why you were not pulled up for it 6 weeks ago when you went to do your 90 day report.... you will most certainly be pulled up for it when you do your extension of a non o)

To get your extension, you are going to need to have a valid TM30 on file that has your current address (the same one as the application for extension) ... since you dont have that, your wife will be asked to submit house reg/ thai ID card etc.. to register the address and file your TM30

So right now, you have a TM30 on file from a hotel that you dont want to risk becoming known to your wife.... so if you wife is going to need to register your current address to do the TM30, the easiest way to negate the fallout of the immigration officer saying, "oh I see you already have a TM30 on file from  - girls do me happy-time hotel -"  is for you and your wife to go to a hotel (one that submits a TM30) so the immigration officer instead says "oh I see you already have a TM30 on file from - nothing going on here coz I'm with my wife hotel- "

You'll then have TM30 filed with your address that your wife has registered... at the same time I would ask the IO to create a login with those house reg details so YOU can then file any TM30s when you get back from any other hotel visits in future.

6 minutes ago, Blue flare said:

Lupin, Thanks.

 

I am confused, I had around 6 hotel stays during the last six months with nothing being filed, because back then I knew nothing about TM30.

Are you saying if the wife and I stay at a hotel in the next few days then file a TM30 that wipes out all the previous?

 

If that is the case does it mean I will only be picked up on only my last hotel visit that I do not want my wife to know about?

If your wife or you have never filed a TM30, the only one that matters is going to the last one you do.... since thats going to be a hotel that you are both staying in... it will also be in contradiction to what you put on the application for extension (or any 90 day reporting you've done)

At that point, the IO will get your wife to fillout and file another TM30 (because you cannot do the extension without a valid TM30 that matches the extension application)... with her ID card and house reg etc.. (make sure she takes them)... , you should also ask for a a login or an account to be created to do this yourself online for any future "excursions" so you can enter your details when you get back "home"

1 hour ago, Blue flare said:

Thanks for the advice guys.

 

Ok, it was not short time, it was a regular hotel room which I booked via Agoda and showed my passport there. 

 

The wife as house owner has done nothing to register for TM30 so thats why I am afraid it may come up when we visit immigration.

 

Has anybody been picked up regarding TM30 at the time of visa renewal?

If you're renewing a non o extension in bangkok, you will absolutely get pulled up and fined if your current TM30 (presumably submitted by the hotel) does not match your 90 day reporting or the address your trying to use to make the extension. Use the app to register the address now , then use the app to submit you stay. The alternative is to get all your wifes paperwork for house registration etc... and go to immigration yourself and file the TM30 (and extension) alone.

You and your wife "COULD" go stay in a hotel together now ... that would obfuscate the current TM30 altogether ???? ... you would still be fined for a TM30 that doesant match 90 reporting address and the address you're using to make the extension, but it would at least reflect your hotel stay with your wife

45 minutes ago, Aforek said:

yes, but you are still a person of let's say 70-80 years old, same physical condition than a " retired": I am afraid ( I hope I am wrong ) that in the next years, every visa old people will be affected 

If you believe that "every visa old people will be affected" what about visa that fall under the tourist visa class? Hows that going to work? It cant

Register online via the app... then file via the app.... or get all the paperwork needed from wife and file TM30 yourself.

16 minutes ago, griffon2011 said:

Sheryl, what happened to post 278 that you wrote describing how things work in the Thai government. That was the best description I have ever seen and wanted to print it out and send to a friend but it was gone.  

The post number may have subsequently changed since this thread was closed then re-opened after several posts with dubious/incorrect info were deleted.

11 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

27 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

I have never understood these different abreviations: O, O-A;
I do not know what they mean.

The basic difference is an 'O' type Visa only allows a 90 day entry.

The O-A Visa allows a 1 year entry.

 

OA > "Annual"

OX > "X = 10 years"

?

6 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

The Non O had 800K in the bank so couldn't run out. Tapping the 800K could  effect renewals but medical bills would be paid.                                  

My only remaining question is what were the numbers using OA visas that were renewing every other year in the first place and how many actually ran out of medical bills. My guess is it's probably close to zero but I could be wrong. I suspect some sort of vested interest could be at play, but don't know.

If you're suggesting that the reason an OA obtained outside the kingdom requires health insurance IS because it doesn't require 800k in a thai bank, then you would need to explain why the OX requires health insurance AND 3 mill in a Thai bank.

6 hours ago, lkv said:

Absolutely. As long as you live outside of Thailand and only travel to Thailand from time to time.

 

Otherwise, you may be perceived as trying to live in Thailand on a tourist visa by Immigration.

 

Same same like the under 50's.

Agree... too many times we read some post from some guy who says "help, got denied at border... I have 23 METVs in passport plus 11 visa exemptions but I'm just a tourist. What are my options now, I just want to get back in so I can sell my car, my bike, close my bank account, cancel my 1 year condo contract and get my things... but I'm just a tourist."

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well if so, this could be seen as a way to "crack down" on the long standing "loophole" of people being able to get close to two years out of a one year visa. Not saying this was their intention. I don't try to read their minds. 

Agree... it'd be one hell of a conversation for the unsuspecting OA holder at the border or airport though.

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Exactly. Not clear. My guess is that they mean to say it will be enforced on entries even with original visas older. But whether the border officers actually do that is another question. 

If the second entry on an exempted OA were to require health insurance, I can see a lot of people who try a bounce 3 days before the OA expiration date getting stamped in for a total of 3 days ????

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Where did you get that understanding? I didn't see that clarified either way in the police order, did you?

Only in so much as it sets out that exact scenario for a second entry made on an OA effective oct31st 2019. Whether it means when the visa was issued or when the entry was made is a bit confusing

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's a very good point but my understanding is that immigration's intention is to enforce the insurance requirement on such entries. So if they do if such a person has one month left on their complying policy, they would only get a one month stay rather than a year. It's hard to imagine that border officers would have the bandwidth to really enforce that but like you say, wait and see!

My understanding of this was that the second entry on an OA (bounce before actual visa expiration date) will require insurance only if the VISA was issued after oct31st, in contrast to those offices mentioned already that will enforce for all subsequent extensions after oct31st if underpinned by a previous OA

but again, all anyone can do is wait to see how in fact this will be applied

24 minutes ago, Jim P said:

I`m six months into my first O-A visa which I acquired in London. Will I need insurance on my first extension application next April? I actually have 5m baht insurance and a relatively comprehensive policy but I have forgone outpatient cover in return for a 20% discount. One of the requirements is that outpatient is covered and therefore I would lose that discount. I`m wondering how they will police it, will they be able to read my full policy at immigration ?

The bottom line is we cant answer that yet... How this is being applied from one office to another is different and although Jomtien is one of the offices that has said you will need insurance for your situation, that may very well change.

You're in the lucky position right now that you can wait till after the 31st and see how this is going to be applied over the next few months.

Perhaps more importantly, anything anyone says now is likely going to be irrelevant by the time you have to start looking into this.... your best course of action is contact/visit Jomtien a month or 2 before you are due to extend... by which time this lunacy will at least have some historical continuity for each office.

2 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

What are you dribbling about then ?

For god sake... forget about extension then ok?

The argument being made was that the OA visa needed health insurance because it did not need any money held in a Thai bank.....

I dont think we can suggest that because the OX visa requires health insurance and ALSO money in thai bank.

Just now, Don Mega said:

The O-X visa is an extension ?

Of course not. forget it

2 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Non immi O-X aint a non immi O.

 

what needs to be explained ?

You miss the point... the argument was that health insurance was required on the OA and NOT extensions because those extensions required money in thai bank.

The OX requires both the funds in thai bank and the insurance... so the idea that the extensions dont need insurance only because of money in thai bank is questionable.

3 minutes ago, Chiller said:

In which case maybe it is only the intention to require new applicants to have insurance cover for the duration of the actual O-A Visa. Those then extending through retirement or marriage will have the qualifying funds in Thailand which may be used for medical expenses. Therefore they are in exactly the same position as those seeking extensions based on Non Imm O Visa's who are not currently required to be insured?!

then you would need to explain the OX visa.... which is obtained OUTSIDE Thailand, requires 3 million in THAI bank before application AND requires the same health insurance requirements as the OA