lupin

10 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

For me the title of the OP misses the important point. That this it is not an issue of either/or, or avoiding covering your health needs. It's an issue of wisely choosing/covering both necessary requirements, a VISA and health coverage. Regarding the TE alone as a VISA, to me is a complete waste of money, unless your Uber rich or a busy executive. And I would go on to say it is even a complete waste of money even if you have the money to spend. When you factor in that TE still requires you to comply with TM30/28, 90 day reporting, personal presence for your annual renewal (albeit with no paperwork/bank statements but still requires 1900 baht payment annually) and... 5 year renewal on top of the annual renewal it starts to look like a very expensive annual Non- O or OA doesn't it. Just get the Non O or OA and have an agent do renewals for you if you don't want the paperwork hassles and dealing with immigration. There are really only three situations IMO that can make TE worth it, even necessary. 

 

1. You can't qualify for the health insurance. To me, I do like the TE option as my go to for planning purposes should I somehow not qualify for health insurance in the future. 

 

2. The Uber wealthy/business execs who don't want the hassles of immigration reporting (TE advisors purportedly facilitate this for you) and you want to enjoy a golf discount and your own VIP line and transport at the airport.

 

3. You're too young for the retirement VISA options.

Because, when you breakdown the actual benefits of TE, it is clearly not worth it from any normal practical financial point of view. 

4. People who do not actually live in Thailand permanently but travel to Thailand 10 - 20 times every year for business or any other reason who dont want to have to deal with potential issues entering the country each time on 30 day stamps and who also want to have the freedom of a Bank account/thai drivers lic (which also cant be done on 30 day stamps)

As far as I am aware, visitors such as this (like the frequent business traveler) was who this program was originally targeted at.

9 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

yes of course they are, they also told me i can't enter on land borders with my elite visa (would only get 30 day stamp) and i only found out 3 years laters that i am an idiot to have believed that.

 

The customer support of them is some random call center stuff i suppose and they really don't know much at all.

yep.. not going to get into it again. Been over this dozens of times in the last 10 months.

Bottom line is, PE holders or those interested in getting one, need to make a determination based on:

a. what Thailand elite say

b. what immigration say

c. what people in a forum say.

It is entirely up to them what weight is given to each of those sources when making their decision.

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That is not the proof I was asking for. Nobody has had a permit to stay canceled by immigration.

Most of what is written in that email has been proven to be false info and they apparently reversed that statement according to info posted in other topics.

As I said, it comes down to having to assume Thailand Elite is lieing.

Could you show me though, where/how that email was shown to be false or reversed? That is the exact email I received. Perhaps I'm missing something. Despite being in constant communication with Nisa, she has not corrected or said anything that contradicts what she claimed earlier

12 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Do you have any proof of that statement. I have never seen a proven case of the permit to stay from the last entry using a PE visa being canceled by immigration.

In addition to the conversation I had with liaison officer at changwatana... here is a copy of an email I got from Thailand elite when I was set to renew last year. (I also received a global mail out to all members whose membership was set to expire last year explaining the permission to stay is invalidated if membership expires - I posted that elsewhere on thaivisa )

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Do you have any proof of that statement. I have never seen a proven case of the permit to stay from the last entry using a PE visa being canceled by immigration.

Only on the word of Thailand Elite Liaison Officer at Changwattana.

Would also add i was told (again by Thailand Elite Officer) that Thailand Elite send a list of expiring memberships to Immigration every month. Again, this is all from Thailand Elite and may or may not be applied/policed by immigration.

Those that dont believe this is possible, have to assume Thailand Elite is lieing... which is fine.

13 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Would it not be better to contact Thai immigration who are the only people who can penalize you for any perceived overstay (despite having a Permit in your passport)?

It's like asking a salesman if I need a new car

Yes, people have done that and still found themselves on overstay. Like I said, I'm not going to get into it, this particular issue has been raging on and on between PE holders and non-PE holders constantly since July last year on facebook on other threads here.. its been done to death.

7 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Ok. Thanks for that explanation. It's so ridiculous. You have to be sure your TM30 is filled out on every travel period, or complete a TM28 if the TM30 doesn't get done for whatever reason, then have to do the 90 day reporting, then do the annual renewal as you describe, and then finally go for the 5 year sticker. So in reality the TE VISA only removes the annual hassle of paperwork/bank statements for the IO as required for the Non O for retirement or Marriage. 

If in Bangkok, I think you'll find no-one has ever had to do a TM28... TM30 can be done online (unless landlord doesn't want to do it or you're in one of a few situations that makes it difficult). Thailand Elite will do your 90 day reporting for you with no need you to go to immigration Annual renewals or any other need to visit immigration can be done with a Thailand Elite Liaison which cuts very long wait times down to all of 5 mins at the immigration office, I dont remember ever having to wait more than 10 mins for any immigration visit when with a Thailand Elite staff member.

All of the issues you bring up though have nothing to do with the Elite membership so not sure why they are relevant. Most things I had to do at immigration are a lot easier now as a PE visa holder. Other things like getting bank accounts/drivers Lic are a lot easier.

16 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

When you exited and re-entered Thailand just before the expiry of the 5 year Elite Visa validity date, you will be stamped in again for a permission to stay of 1 year.

Obviously you would need re-entry permits when during that last year (after expiry of your 5year Visa validity) you want to be able to re-enter Thailand during that last year's permission to stay period.

So I presume that the 'affix a new sticker' you mention, refers to this re-entry permit.  

Ór is this not correct?

This is a contentious issue among many talking about this. The realty is your permission to stay is tied not to your permission to stay date but to your membership expiration. So if your membership is set to expire and you leave/enter the country and get a 1 year permission to stay... it is immediately invalidated when your membership expires. There are those that have found themselves on overstay as a result. This is explicitly stated in terms and conditions and is sent out as a mail out when a members membership is up for re-newal. I'm not going to get into back and forth about it with those who think this is rubbish, you can easily contact Thailand Elite and ask them.

17 hours ago, ukrules said:

I really doubt they will force us to buy a worthless Thai insurance policy with the TE visa. It would make little sense, how many TE visa holders do a runner on their bill with the prospect of facing legal action for recovery? Such legal action would result in the loss of your TE visa should you default and be ruled bankrupt by a court. This is spelled out clearly in the terms and conditions.

 

It looks like they're coming after the OA visa holders because they're the group who don't have to bring any money for the first 2 years and they can keep it going by popping back to the home country every 2 years.

 

In the end it will all come down to how many people are skipping out without paying their bills and I suspect that's going to be a low amount for TE visa holders at the moment mainly because there's going to be a relatively low number of people with the TE visas.

I agree with most of what you've said except I dont think you can use "no money in a Thai bank" as the main reason for requiring health insurance on the OA, since the OX requires money in Thai bank AND health insurance.

20 hours ago, Momofarang said:

What amazes me is that people seem to think, that what is happening now to Non OA, with Insurance becoming a requirement when entering, or extending stay, with visas issued years ago, will not happen to TE.

Its one thing to implement health insurance requirements on a class of NON O visas, It would be a hard sell to start imposing it on any tourist visa subclass (which is what PE visas are)

Thats not to say it would never happen, but I think it's important to understand there is a hell of a difference between these 2 visa classifications to minimize the fearmongering and panic.

these are misleading in that they are automatically filled in when the rest of the form is filled out. Go through and fill the form in order, I think you'll find those fields will then pre-select values based on previous fields entries

this is one of the many issues being discussed in other threads. @Sheryl has some interesting thoughts on this

26 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Hold on a minute - 'Star Visa' - what is this?

 

I got my visa directly from Thailand Elite, maybe this explains why I didn't receive the email as it comes from some agency?

 

Don't confuse anything some third party for profit visa agency says with the official word from Thailand Elite.

Certainly not.. I got mine from within Thailand and directly from Thailand Elite offices and affixed the visa sticker at CW with Thailand Elite.... (I've no idea what star visa is either). I still think you are likely correct when you suggest these rules may have changed recently and in line with the police order in April 2014. I've not yet heard of anyone who got their visa before April 2014 getting these notifications from Thailand Elite.

All communication I've had including all those emails/screenshots I posted are directly from Thailand Elite. None of the emails or screenshots I had mentioned "star visa"

8 minutes ago, krey said:

yeah I hear what you are saying, my plan was to go home to Canada though but was hoping to go home in the summer instead of the winter so I was looking for options to stay a little longer.  I might do the Thai Elite in the future but it won't be for at least another full year perhaps longer so I did not want to commit to 500 000 Baht when I am unsure.  I mean I can still do the 2X border run where I get 30 days, extend, then go again get 30 days, then extend which will get me to the warmer months but I was hoping to avoid the border runs if this stamp could get me through to April, May June type dates

Unless you were very articulate in what you wanted at the border... an IO would likely stamp you in under the extension of stay of the Elite Visa anyway (unless you are already in the 6th year, which would require a re-entry permit before doing the bounce). If you were in the 6th year already... you could bounce without the re-entry permit which voids the permitted to stay under the elite visa... which then means you'd come in on exemption (or could go get a 60 day TR and come in on that then extend 30 days at CW)

21 minutes ago, krey said:

yeah this is exactly where I did not want to be, Uncertainty . 

If you were/are definitely going to re-new in future (say at the end of the 6th year)... then it is at that point that you are more likely going to get discovered as being in overstay since it is at that point that you'd be dealing with EPL staff at changwattana.

I see no advantage in trying to get a 6th year for free instead of re-newing now - you get the 4% discount, which you would NOT get if you tried to buy new membership again at the end of your "free/6th" year.

The other side of the coin,  if you had no plan to re-new at the end of the 6th year... then you would likely have no issues with that 6th year. But I dont want to suggest one course of action over another since I'm convinced that as far as TE are concerned, you are in overstay at that point and although IO officers may not ever pick up on it, the potential exists that some eagle-eye IO will.

40 minutes ago, krey said:

I got the same email that someone else posted here from them

 

"

Thailand Elite visa will automatically expire no later than the expiry date of your membership. The Government Relations Department usually sends the list of the member whose membership has expired to the immigration office.

 

Now, for your case, having the entry stamp that is over your membership expiration. We are afraid that you will be considered as 'overstay' in the immigration record after we send the abovementioned official letter to them. There is very little chance that immigration considers this as their mistake, but they will most likely consider this as your false.

Similar cases like this have happened before. The most recent one was last month. One of our renewed members got the arrival stamp from Suvarnabhumi Airport, but he had an appointment to affix the new visa at Chaeng Wattana Immigration. On the appointment date, the immigration officer checked the record and found that this member had overstayed since his membership expired. Not only he had to pay for the overstay, but he also could not affix Thailand Elite Visa due to overstaying record. So he had to leave the country and affix a new Elite visa upon arrival. We tried to negotiate with the immigration but they refused and the reason they gave us was that member should know well about his membership expiry date (which is the end of the Thailand Elite Visa).

 

We would like to clarify because we do not want you to have any problem which might be caused you overstay or accidentally if over 90 days, you will be banned by immigration for 1 year.

 

Therefore, the immigration and Star Visa's answered base on your arrival stamp in your passport without knowing Thailand Elite process after your membership expires.

 

Thank you very much in advance for your kind understanding in this matter. Any further inquiries you may have, please do not hesitate to contact us at your most convenience.

Best regards,  

"

Ayep... and I've had several very long conversions with different EPL staff at CW who have said exactly the same. I've not tried to make any recommendations at all, but I do think it is irresponsible to claim Thailand Elite (essentially TAT) dont know what they are talking about, or that they are lieing to sell more memberships and that it is fine to completely ignore them... which could potentially put you in overstay.

8 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

The only Visa now available (from overseas) that allows stay up to 12 months is an O-A Visa. I had that confirmed by both the Embassy and the Consulate.

Although I understand that might be the case in the context of the question you asked them, that's not really accurate.

There are other visas available (from overseas) that allow for stays of up to 12 months or more. The OX for example, or even the Elite visa.. which can be applied for from overseas and sticker affixed at swampy on arrival.

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

That makes absolutely no sense. The visa sticker that they examine before giving you a one-year permission to stay clearly specifies the expiry date. What might be true (and is, being charitable, a possible explanation for the misinformation they are giving) is that an extension of stay past the expiry date of the visa might not be allowed. They may be confused.

It makes complete sense... this is Thailand Elites policy. It is part of the conditions of their program. It is spelled out in the email sent out to its members that the permission to stay/visa expires as soon as your membership expires. IO doing the stamping are more than likely unaware of this. Thailand elite send a list of expired memberships to immigration each month.... for someone getting a 6th year, its probably all fine until you need to do something at changwattana that year, at which point you run the risk of being pulled up for being on overstay.

2 minutes ago, Aforek said:

Can you send a link to the original text in Thai, please ? 

1570519806090.pdf

7 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I have resisted posting this thread. Already page 30+ of nonsense. Apart from insurance required for O-A or non o extensions based on retirement etc etc..

No one has mentioned minor issue. I fly out in los every 2 weeks. My last entry to DM I had friendly io ask a silly question along with I had to show him my reentry permit. Then asked me if I work los. <deleted> my pp shows non o extensiin retirement. Anyway to the point..how would this guy have ability to check insurance if I was on O-A.

Imagine a imm control entry in future with the insurance proof.

Time to fly with APEC card.

 

If issued by consulate/embassy, there will be an annotation on the visa sticker itself.

If an extension, the "remarks" will likely be on you entry history when passport is scanned, but who knows at this point

22 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I received a completely different renewal email to you, it mentioned nothing about extensions at all.

 

I received this in April regarding my expiration in June, the text above the image matches what's inside the image :

 

 

The messages are very different. I wonder if there was some change in the rules around that time.

 

 

I received that email as well, separately, perhaps 2 weeks before the other email pictured in screenshot. I agree there does appear to be a change. I've only seen other members starting to mention this very recently over the last 8 - 10 weeks. My membership was set to expire Oct 23rd, I think I started receiving re-newels email around early August.

17 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Well that is interesting, when did you receive this email?

The first email was in reply to my questions to them from several months ago... the second email (which is the screenshot) is an email sent out to all members whose membership were set to expire soon (I received that 6 weeks before mine expired).

Interestingly, the others that I know that also received this email (several in the thai visa advice Facebook group), all got their memberships after April 2014 which may or may not have something to do with the passing of immigration order 79/2557 in April 2014 that sets guidelines to amendment of permissions of stay when requirements of a visa or extension are no longer met. But I have no real indication that'd be relevant.