erobando

Did someone actually say that about Isaan people or was that a unbelievably foul joke???

Uh, no. No one said that.

With so many absurd references to Fascism and the Khmer Rouge, I took the absurdity further and attributed actual Nazi-esque statements.

I apologize if it offended.

Maybe sarcasm and satire don't work well on an international webboard.

I am also wrong....that the PAD has just descended Thailand back 10yrs economically and politically

NO...you wake up and smell the coffee

What your PD friends are spouting is akin to Khemour Rouge policies

LOL WUT

The Khmer Rouge abolished money, evacuated the capital and forced city-dwellers to work in the country-side. They also engaged in exterminations of dissidents and people who didn't fit Pol Pot's conception of "Khmer-ness".

I'm not sure I see the relation to the PAD.

TRT/PPP misjudged the current political reality of Thailand.

And PAD and their advocates haven't? I am gagging to hear the reasoning behind your assertion. What is the "current political reality" here?

The "current political reality" is that their supporters are too fired up and blinded by their leaders to realize that they're just pawns, and both the PAD and the PPP should be kicked out. Stop wearing yellow. Stop wearing red. Once people are stripped of their team colors, they'll start being reasonable again.

Oi! I asked erobando, not you.

(Nice theory on your color coding tho')

Sorry, NanLaew. I just logged on now.

By current political reality, I mean that there is an established ruling network here in Thailand, in which all parties involved are connected. Political deals are traditionally brokered by Gen Prem, who is respected by the major players (politicians, the military, the wealthy Bangkokians).

Thaksin tried to tear down that network and establish his own. He tried to do too much of this too soon. Thaksin was also too cavalier in pushing through legislature that seemingly benefited his own financial interests.

If the TRT/PPP really wanted to establish itself as a political party with an actual platform and specific policy goals, they wouldn't have been so confrontational and would have worked within the system to accomplish their policies.

Thaksin/TRT/PPP misjudged the political reality... they misjudged their ability to overturn the established power base.

I'm not claiming the established power base is necessarily better or worse, but it does exist.

Add to this TRT/PPP's actions increasingly appeared to be more about Thaksin than an ideoligical platform.

They play the rural v urban card, but they completely forget about Southern Thailand, which is certainly rural, too.

The most urban center in the South is what? Hat Yai? No more urban than Chieng Mai or Udon.

TRT/PPP could have played it's political cards better.

Instead they were too confrontational, and didn't gain enough support to change the existing power structure.

I totally agree with rainman. Its not PPP's fault that the Democrats cant deliver in rural areas. I doubt this airport fiasco will increase their vote the next time. They are only damaging themselves.

Dissolving the party on Tuesday wont solve anything. New bodies will take over.

Democracy is great and all that.

But this government has no control over anything.

TRT/PPP misjudged the current political reality of Thailand.

Look its not six of one and half a dozen of the others.

One side is advocating the overthrow of a democratically elected (for those who missed it, they won the last four elections) Govorenment to replace it with military rule and rule by elite appointments. Also stating openly in public that the majority of the country is too stupid to vote so should have that right withdrawn. Add to that causing the country billions of dollars of financial loss, loss of reputation and respect. Also escalating violence in a bid to drag the army in and practicing witchcraft and stuffing used sanitary towels and tampons into statues for god knows what reason.

I have yet to see one single post commenting on the wisdom of stuffing tampons in statues! Anybody want to be first? JD?

And the other side is defending democracy.

not sure what this has to do with my point... voilent clashes aren't good for anyone.

the elected government brought this upon themselves. they were too confrontational and forgot that they represent all of thailand.

exactly what have they done ever for the rural south?

what have they done for anyone post-coup?

elected or not, they appear not to have the confidence of the military or now even the police. defending democracy? not sure about that. thailand has votes but has never been a true democracy. but that's ok for now, neither are malaysia, vietnam, singapore and so on... thailand will get by.

hopefully, thailand will eventually develop true political parties with actual distinct ideological platforms. but this hasn't happened yet.

Great photos, really shows the difference.

LOL WUT.

much different than the pictures of the PAD'ers playing badminton and singing songs.

what about all the Thai Rouge that are tossing granades in bkk?

it doesn't really matter... both sides have people that believe in their cause, and they're all essentially pawns.

the PAD guards comprise of many former soldiers, especially from the south.

the DAAD'ers have strong cop connection, and I'd guess a number of ex-military people from the north.

if the two groups mmet it's going to essentially be civil war and not good for any of us.

Maybe this is what the Prime Minister wants ?

After all this is not going to do the PAD any favours. Who would want to vote in these political terrorists.

Dissolve the PPP ? I am taking bets on what the next name will be.

Get out the bodybags at the airport id bet.

We already know it. Peua Thai.

He's outsmarted the elite for starters.

I liked the news items posted on here today. All totally scathing of the failed Coup in progress and the Thai Army and Police.

Not like the old days is it BlancmangeApong when a Coup was... turn off the radio and tv stations... bang bang your dead and we are boss not.... tv back on and smiles all round from an in the dark population.

this is being played out in their living rooms and they now see they have nothing to fear from these bodies as they are being pushed around by old ladies and mothers with babes in arms.

PPP win hands down and somebody should through the towel in for sondhi and the army before they are maimed for life.

i'm new here.

grandpops is a parotty poster, right?

Let's not play games with this by dancing around the definition of Terrorism. Would you agree that PAD's actions of taking over the Government House and disrupting government businsess and taking over and international airport is a criminal violation of the Thailand Statutes and of international agreements regarding the operation of international airports.

If you agree and you believe in the rule of law, then there is no other option but to have the police arrest these criminals and have them tried in the Thailand Courts. No one is above the the law and there must be consequences for criminal acts.

I have no problem with arresting PAD members.

I was responding to previous posts claiming that the PAD are terrorists.

Terror involves some sort of potential threat to civilians. PAD in the airport don't pose that.

30 drunken DAAD Thai Rouge in my neighborhood with clubs are a clear threat.

In most countries taking over an airport and trying to instigate a coup would be called a tad more than potentially annoying.

My point is that the PAD's actions aren't terrorism. No physical threat to anyone.

The Thai Rouge are armed and have been attacking people. That's closer to terrorism.

The domestic terrorists are the Thai Rouge drunks. They're running around w/ clubs and throwing granades. The PAD are just sitting in buildings.

"Just sitting in buildings".

Uh, yes. Seems pretty obvious to me.

Armed DAAD vigilantes on my soi are more of a threat to me. They could actually damage my property or physically attack me or my family. Even more of a threat bc the police aren't interested in stopping them.

The actions of the PAD are nothing more than potentially annoying.

The domestic terrorists that are occupying Government House and the two Bangkok airports are duping the PAD supporters by telling them that their collective action will improve the quality of life for all Thais. The terrorists are using women, children and the elderly as human shields to accomplish their limited agenda. The governments failure is huge however the terrorist actions by core PAD leaders is reprehensible. The leaders of PAD need to be removed from society, perhaps for decades, as punishment for despicable acts against humanity. There is no justification for endangering the public and cripling the economy.

The PAD supporters here on TV are unfortunate victims of a domestic terrorist group. We all should feel sorry for every victim now and for those who will fall during the impending violence to come.

The domestic terrorists are the Thai Rouge drunks. They're running around w/ clubs and throwing granades. The PAD are just sitting in buildings.

really ? TRT Party killed Thousands during its regime ?? Sorry ??

Who killed thousands of innocent students in 1976 ? In 1992 just 200 meter from where I am ?

Thaksin ?

Answer = Samak. Well, partial answer at least.

Protests are legal. occupying an international airport and other government buildings is criminal.

If you act criminally you should be punished and spend a long time in jail.

If you protest legally you might be able to convince a few people that you are sane.

Don't try to confuse the two actions. PAD is acting criminally, even if all their claims about PPP and Thaksin are 100% true, and the police must do their job arrest everyone single one of these people that they are witnessing create criminal acts.

Yes, PAD is acting illegally.

So is DAAD/UDD, who are allowed free reign by the police.

IMO the red freaks are more dangerous.

PAD is just sitting around at the airports and government buildings.

DAAD is running around throwing granades, planting bombs and beating up various people they think are pro-PAD.

Last night about 30 bunch of red shirt vigilantes were sitting on the curb in my Soi, holding clubs and drinking beer.

I guess waiting for attacking orders?

^ Actually, the international news sources I've seen have done a poor job covering this.

They've over-simplified the situation by painting it in a in western-based political viewpoint that doesn't fit.

IMO you're better off finding books on recent Thai history. NIAS Press is a good source.

"The Thaksinization of Thailand" by Duncan McCargo & Ukrist Pathmanand is good. It's pre-PAD but provides a nice background.

The authorities should have stepped in months ago, the PAD overstepped the mark by taking over the government buildings in August. I don't accept the PAD having the power of the people either, what does the power of the people mean. Most of the hard working population around Thailand could not give two hoots, they have work to do, they cannot afford to camp outside a government house all day all night with no food, no water, no toilets and no clean clothes. Why would normal working people want to do this?

They have mobile toilets.

And they definitely have food, including some rather tasty dishes cooked by Southerners who made the trip up to BKK.

^ IMO you don't have anything to worry about.

No matter who wins, the airport will be up and running by next week.

This will be a distant memory in early Jan.

Looks like things are starting now... PAD at ASTV and Don Muang attacked around 1:50AM.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30089658

Oh...ok. Thanks for clearing it all up.

No problem, just trying to help.

If there is bloodshed when the police try to clear out the airports, the military might have to step in. That could mean a de facto coup, even though the Royal Thai Army does not want to take power.

In my humble opinion, as long as the military obeys the orders of the elected civilian government, it is no coup. If the police fail to clear the airports, and the prime minister sends in the army, it is not a "de facto coup".

The post meant that the Army might intervene on their own to stop fighting between the police and PAD.

The PM asked the Air Force and Navy (instead of the Army) to back up the Police because the PM knows that he doesn't have Anupong's support.

I think everyone should relax.

All this is no big deal.

Airport closed? Inconvenient for a some travelers. Once my flight was delayed for 24 hours in Ho Chi Minh City, another time for about 12 hours in Rome. Annoying, but I lived.

Permanent Damage to the Thai economy? Not good for tourism but nothing is permanent.

People will still come, not too many people will remember this incident in 6 months.

Unless you're traveling this week, none of this will likely effect you at all.

Just like the transitions from the Thaksin government to the post-coup government to the PPP. A few annoying back-and-forth visa and business law changes but that's par for the course here.

PAD are terrorists? They've only fought with people fighting them (police and DAAD/UDD).

They don't have any hostages. "Human shields" are themselves.

People wonder why the police or army haven't cleared the airport?

Thailand is different western-style democracies.

The Police and Army here have their own political agendas which might not agree with those of the elected government. They won't always do what a Somchai wants.

In the case of the Army, they have several different factions with varying agendas.

All of the parties involved have brought this situation upon themselves. This struggle boils down to only pro-/anti-Thaksin; none of the groups are fighting over any real policies.

PAD is protested almost exclusively against the perceived influence of Thaksin in Thai politics. Don't talk about the 70-30 appointed government; most of the protesters are simple anti-Thaksin.

DAAD/UDD is fighting simply for the return of Thaksin. There is no threat to 30 Baht scheme, to loan programs, etc., no matter who is in charge.

The PPP's stand seems to be only about Thaksin. If it were really about other policies, they would have chosen less confrontational PM's and actually tried to get things done. Samak? Would be a great defender of democracy if he hadn't spent his career suppressing it. Somchai? Perceived link to Thaksin is obvious.

Thaksin's government itself did some good things (modernization of the economy), some things with good intentions but not necessarily well-executed or thought out (health care and loan programs), some bad things (restrictions on the press) and some very bad things (war on drugs/extra-judicial killings).

In the end, his downfall was picking fights with the the established power structure and being too cavalier about using the government for his own business/financial interests.

This is just Thai politics. Relax, stay out of the way, and you'll do just fine.

Tomorrow, I'm going to eat some kow mot gai, looking forward to it.

How many lessons and chances need this buffalo PM to understand?

Unbelievable, I was about sure that he would announce his resignation, which is way overdue. But again the same "democracy bla bla". Before this guy talks about democracy he should return the money for vote buying back to the Thai taxpayers!

Sick of Samak!

"I am going to stay in office, and protect democracy."

Isn't that a joke?! This guy is nuts!

Well, if by protecting democracy he means for the democratically elected official to remain in office and not bow to mob rule, then yes, it looks like he is protecting democracy.

Well, if by protecting democracy he means the way Augusto Pinochet protected Chilean democracy, then yes, it looks like he is protecting democracy.

I hardly see how a military dictator who overthrew the chilean government compares to a lawfully elected prime minster in Thailand. Troll on, PAD man.

I don't support PAD. 1976, 1993.

Read your Thai history, dope.

How many lessons and chances need this buffalo PM to understand?

Unbelievable, I was about sure that he would announce his resignation, which is way overdue. But again the same "democracy bla bla". Before this guy talks about democracy he should return the money for vote buying back to the Thai taxpayers!

Sick of Samak!

"I am going to stay in office, and protect democracy."

Isn't that a joke?! This guy is nuts!

Well, if by protecting democracy he means for the democratically elected official to remain in office and not bow to mob rule, then yes, it looks like he is protecting democracy.

Well, if by protecting democracy he means the way Augusto Pinochet protected Chilean democracy, then yes, it looks like he is protecting democracy.

lol at the people pointing to Samak and the PPP as standard-bearers of democracy.

Or that Sondhi will gain political power and that all of his proposals will actually come to fruition.

A lot of reports seem to also paint this as Small Urban Educated Elite v the Rural Poor.

1) Thaksin is not poor.

2) The South is poor. And they don't vote PPP.

EUh, The South is not poor, you need to get your info straight! Been living in the SOuth for over 10 years most people here have there rubber and palm oil plantations and are doing pretty well.

Most people in Songkhla own plantations?

I know what western democracy is like because I have lived under it and participated in it most of my life. The last few years I have seen alot about what Thai democracy is like and I can say they are the same. Democracy is inefficiend, ugly and ripe for corruption. However, it is the only system of government that is fair to most and unfair to few. What Thailand does not have is western style law enforcement and a military that meddles in politics. Fix law enforcement and fix the military and they would probably be okay.

Not really.

Thai democracy does not have political parties with coherent platforms or agendas. It's simply coalitions of people trying to obtain power.

In the West, parties usually have some sort of general idealogical stance or framework.

It is true that in Thailand the military not only meddles in but essentially oversees and directs politics.