erobando

A coup is when a government is over thrown. It has never hap[pend in America. Only a child would say that one person is a party.

I'm going to take this quote away form the Lincoln discussion and apply it to Thailand.

In Western-type democracies, there are political parties that have relatively cohesive ideological platforms. The platforms are fluild, but generally one knows the idealogical and policy leanings of Democrats v Republicans or Conservative/Christian Democrat v Social Democrat and so on.

In Thailand, political parties are simply groups of people that band together because they view it as a way to gain power/help business interests, etc.

The problem with the TRT/PPP/PTP is that it increasingly seemed to be about one Person, and not about any actual long-term policies.

The Democrats? Not sure what they're long-term policies are either. Most of their last platform didn't really differ much from the PPP, particularly regarding social/rural development (which apparently was the reason rural northern/Isaan supported the PPP).

As long as Thai politics are only about People, we are are continuously going to experience these same problems.

The Thai military sees itself as a supreme entity above the law and above the need to respect the separation of the military and government. One of the biggest problems in Thailand has always been that it doesn't know it's place. There is only one solution: The Costa Rica example, where the military was disbanded. The military needs its wings clipped and fast. They are a pox upon the nation. Recent events demonstrate that the Thai military still thinks its 1932.

Whether or not one supported the PPP or Democrats, I think most of us know the Thai military certainly does know its place.

Or rather, the variation factions know their places.

Most Farangs believe in democracy... PPP won...(Thaksin won) the elections... one man one vote... sounds fair to me...

PPP dissolved due to vote buying.....one man one vote not 500 Baht one vote....

Well, even if we ignore the vote buying, there's no change in one man one vote with an Democrat-led coalition.

Thailand has a Parliamentary system, the executive branch isn't directly elected by the general population.

PPP won a plurality of MP seats and formed a coalition government.

Post dissolution, Peua Thai hasn't been able to retain some of its coalition partners plus Newin et al decided not to stay in the PTP framework.

All current MP's were still elected.

But now the (somewhat smaller) plurality PTP doesn't have the backing to create a coalition government, Democrats apparently do.

But it would be just as much elected as was the PPP government.

Whether it will be stable is another question...

THAILAND - RUN BY TERRORIST AND FOOLS

Very good to sue PAD which name should be People Acting like Dogs.

Thailand is mentally ill, and most ill is PAD.

How come that a terrorist organization can run a country? It's so stupid one can hardly believe it.

These monkeys should be sent back to the jungle and leave civilized thais alone!

PAD is the only party that should be banned because of committing crimes, vandalism and terrorism.

What has happened in Thailand lately is nothing but terrorism, and a majority elected government has to leave! PAD is an extremely active minor group having no widely support by the thaipeople.That's a loss for Thailand, the democracy and a victory for terrorism.

PAD show no respect for anything or anyone included the democracy, and they have made Thailand a bad place to stay. They almost created sivilian war!

Therefore I am leaving the country with my family. I cannot take the chance on letingt my children grow up in a country like this. We had a good time here earlier, but now the love is gone.

Where are you going, The Congo?

Oh, I think a lot posters are just jealous.

Not everyone has the ability or courage to close down an international airport.

Interesting ! So: the majority of the shares are owned by a Thai ministry and thus bought with tax money from the people of Thailand...nobody else's money.

The problem for those same people is that if Thai Airways goes under the airline has to be saved, one way or another, or to be merged with another airline.

In both cases it will cost more substantial cash and guess where THAT has to come from -again- ?

It's AGAIN the Thai population who loses and it's AGAIN the elite and military who won because they don't care who loses, as long as it's not THEM....but the poor.

LaoPo

Huh? If tax payer money is needed to bailout Thai Airways, how would this be a burden on the poor?

They don't pay income tax. Even lower middle class people in Thailand don't pay income tax.

Easy, anybody not at the airport making trouble is not shot.

This is going to bite pad in the ass now.

Now that's fascist talk!

Trying to prosecute the PAD leaders will only inflame the situation--but what the Thai Authorities need to do now is make sure this does not happen again..on Dec 8 or whenever the PAD decides to protest again the airport or seaports, their convoys of protesters should be met by roadblocks armed with machine guns..and if they try to shut down vital economic arteries again, it's gonna be time to blow some of them away tienamen square style.

If they wanted to stop it, they would have.

The Democrats actually got the most votes in the last election but they really are pretty inept aren't they? Always have been since Chuan was in charge.

I don't really get this 'rural poor'/'rural masses' thing though. Are they all a massive block? Why is that the southern rural poor/rural masses are not considered to be as worthy as those in the North or Northeast?

What about the areas of the Northeast that have continued to return their Democrat MPs throughout the Thaksin/PPP era? Are those rural people considered to be backward and yet to have their collective consciousness awakened, or something bizarre like that?

+1 It seems like everyone forgot that Southern Thailand exists.

Don't understand this. This week turned out to be a "win-win" for everyone...

PAD: Enabled the courts to deliver their verdict without hasslen and got the Somchai government out of office.

DAAD: Got the new Peua Thai to look forward to.

Police: Didn't have to resort to violence and recent criticism like post-Oct 7.

Army: Showed they no longer play a role in Thai politics.

AOT: Got back the airport, much cleaner than it was pre-PAD.

Somchai: Got a much needed vacation.

Thaksin: More face-time on internatinal news stations and more motivation from his devoted followers.

You're right - individuals do have the chance to prosper through their hard work and motivation.

But, we are not talking about individuals, we are talking about a population class divide which is deliberately kept that way by a powerful minority. - the army, the lawcourts, propaganda, nationalism and manipulating politics are some of their mechanisms.

The 1930's 'revolution' was not a mass population 'French style' revolution. It was powerful groups within the ruling classes (who had come from ultra rich families and been educated abroad), close to, but not right at the top, who wanted to transfer more direct power and wealth to themselves, namely; PADites - landowners, military dynasties, 'blue bloods' (known as the elites to many). These families are alive and kicking today, seventy years later (joined by some rich Chinese 'traders'), and they still have no regard for the Thai populous.

I generally agree.

Unfortunately, there aren't really any other options in Thailand yet.

It's either one group's manipulations or those of another. And often players will switch groups when it benefits them.

This won't likely change for a long time.

Quite clear leaders of PAD dont give a toss about anyone or anything except themselves.

You dont need to be thai to understand trapping innocent travellers causing untold hardship is mindless fascism.

Exactly.

The first thing Mussolini's Blackshirts did was trap tourists in Italy by closing down the airports.

Eroband and the other sceptics - this is one of the most difficult times Thailand has faced since 1992. Watch and listen

oh, i know these are long-term issues.

but it's the same things posted over and over again about PAD fascists, terminal damage to thailand and whatnot.

before people were annoyed bc the airport was closed, soon it won't be.

If I was on holiday here, rather than living here I'd have loved to have been forced to stay here a few more days.

As it is I run a business here which involves both tourism and shipping, and I don't have a single problem with PAD, or their actions, or any other facet of the Thai country and people. The only people that really irritated me this week were the ill informed, selfish and rude fallang in a lot of these threads.

I will go to sleep with a smile on my face tonight, knowing that there is still along way to go, but a line in the sand has been drawn.. Hopefully the Thaksin years are over now, all bar the wailing and venom of the extremists.

+1

As a business owner here, too, the main thing I don't want is long-term and widespread violence.

That would be dangerous and hurt my business.

People are irritated about how the police and military handled the situation.

But there actions resulted in PAD going home freely, and violence was minimized.

Of course, they also exposed the Somchai government's lack of control.

I'm happy at least this chapter is over.

why are people still whining?

PAD is going home and the airports are opening soon.

what more does everyone want?

lol, you really think PAD are the winners here?

They were screwed the minute they took over the airport and alienated the majority of what little support they had left.

I wouldn't so sure about either of your statements.

Laugh all you like Erobando. But perhaps you could consider my comments in context.

And frankly, YES: the scale of demonstrations and problems in Thailand over the last six months - leading up to the airport and then the illegal siege - will make people in the boardrooms of international companies think twice about Thailand if they are considering where to build new plants in Asia. You're right to say laws on foreign ownership, etc, influence the decision. Obviously. But so do images of transportation hubs being out of action, people waving weapons around in the streets - and the Thai authorities/Govt have in the last week demonstrated utter weakness in confronting crime and maintaining essential services.

With respect I do think it is naive to think none of that influences foreign investment.

Yes, I agree if there are violent clashes over the long term. So far the police/military have limited (allowed?) the violence to isolated DAAD v PAD clashes at the protest sites.

But the last 6 months is really politics as usual in Thailand... the instability is not new.

Err... think about what you've said there....: What did the international community NOT do re Zimbabwe, Burma, Dem Rep Congo, Rawanda...? Check out the levels of foreign investment in manufacturing. International tourism figures... There's a whole new world out there with lower barriers to trade and investment which fuel economic growth for countries considered safe, stable and with a strong respect for law and order. Do you want Thailand to be viewed in the same category as the above countries?

LOL WUT! There's going to be less international investment in Thailand because protesters closed 2 airports for week?

IMO there are much bigger factors involved (e.g., laws on foreign investment, laws on foreign ownership, general business laws...).

I see.. but would I be right in assuming that it leads to the same thing. i.e same people / group / puppets back in power ?

Sadly, I think so. One just has to look at how many banned TRT party members are still involved in the PPP party affairs. They don't even try to hide it.

About the only thing that this will do, is add to SriRacha John's long list of banned politicians !

Yes, the main good thing is that more and mroe old guard politicians are getting banned. People that were around pre-TRT. Hopefully, the same will eventually be done with some Dems, too.

The hope is that the younger generations will eventually form true political parties with actual cohesive platforms and that aren't tied solely to individuals. It'll take a while, but we'll see...

So, sow many people tonight are going to have Fried Eel?

Some people are losing their jobs, others are losing millions of Baht in business. I guess you should tell them yourself that they should go to the beach for another 2 weeks to relax and see how they answer.

Those people are called losers.

Definitely, it's time to relax and enjoy the show.

If your intention is to be the poster child for dumbshit ignorance- you won already. You know that some of these tourists who should be kicking back on the beach are in need of medical attention- many are losing wages- others are forced to be away from needs more pressing than sitting on the beach. You might welcome being stranded in Thailand- but how incredibly stupid to assume that other people have your airhead approach to life.

Please tell me how I'm wrong?

Life doesn't have fixed rules. Situations change.

One minute you're doing OK, on some tropical holiday in some foreign land. Or your business is doing well. Then something unexpected happens.

Winners are those who can adjust and adapt. Those who lost millions made their gains under the old rules.

Millions of Thais would lost their jobs just as Rainman mentioned. Whether he is 20,30 or 50 years of age. Does it really matter? The fact that rainman expresses his opinions in a realistic manner does not make him a kid!

A week's action can last for years. Didn't September 11 last for years and years? How many trillion of dollars were lost because of one hour's worth of airplane flying? Come on wake up!

Dumb comparison to the current situation. Thailand won't need to rebuild the airports.

But no, even Sept 11 didn't last for "years and years".

hey rainman You are really standing in the rain with your comments

My comments don't hurt anyone. But PAD's actions in the past 7 days have ruined Thailand's economy and image. Who's really standing in the rain? The millions of Thai people who have already or will lose their jobs.

Releasing the airports that were never theirs does not justify PAD's actions.

Millions of Thais will lose their jobs because of the closure of the airports for a week?

Amazing Thailand!, really though, all those people amoaning and agroaning about being stuck in Thailand (having chosen to have their holidays in a country currently suffering political turmoil) and not able to get home....if I had to choose a country to be stranded in you could do a lot worse than choose Thailand!....just go and chill out on the beach for another two weeks and be gratefull!....Thailand is great! there's always something crazy going on!.....

Some people are losing their jobs, others are losing millions of Baht in business. I guess you should tell them yourself that they should go to the beach for another 2 weeks to relax and see how they answer.

Those people are called losers.

Definitely, it's time to relax and enjoy the show.

This is another sad decison by courts that are politcal pawns:

THAILAND: Watershed moment for democracy and rule of law

And that the senior judiciary, which through a succession of highly politicised judgments has played a major part in contributing to the current mess has nothing useful to contribute when lives are at stake and the country is in greatest need of intelligent guidance is altogether shameful.

I couldn't agree more. I have lost all respect for this country and it's so called leaders.

Similar circumstance occurred in Germany in 1923 and more recently in Myanmar 1962.

Are we heading for fascism?

Fascism? LOL WUT?

It's just SE Asian Politics. Check out Singapore or Malaysia.

And how many lawsuits was Thaksin involved in while PM, both as defendant and plaintiff?

It's nothing new or alarming.

"Losing Party" implies the Democrats held the airports. Correct?

Not what I meant, much higher up the food chain, much higher.

Still not correct.

AOT and PAD will jointly conduct the screening of passengers into the airport.

-The Nation

This is simply ridiculous!

Hey, to the poster above (MellowYellow Post#31)... at least they can assure the western governments that the airport is "secured by PAD".

.

<deleted>???

Those protesters have ABSOLUTELY no jurisdiction to screen anyone for any reason at all.

Disagree.

They already have the right to arrest police officers.

Might = Right