erobando

It's very important to flood all areas evenly.

It's kind of like when you have the cold or flu. It's best to cough or sneeze in other peoples' faces.

That way they can share your misery. Also, by making others sick, your own sickness goes away quicker.

I am not going to hide behind "the poor" to make my case, which is that society becomes a tenuous concept when the basic bond between those who govern and those who are governed is broken. And that is what has happened with these catrastrophic flood waters being flushed away from central Bangkok and into the western part of the city. Who decided this would be the policy? A politician? A bureaucrat? Some media "expert" standing before a map of locamotives bearing down on the west of Bangkok? The answer is: who knows. And that's the problem, too. A decision affecting the lives of millions was made on what seems to be whim of just who, the BMA governor, FROC, the PM, the fugitive in exile, corporate interests both domestic and international? Who? That means you can never plan for anything in Thailand out of fear that some remote official will some day nonchalantly look at his map and decide to destroy your future. And we know it was a whim, because that has been the nature of their response to this flood since telling everyone the danger would pass on October 18, only to come out the day after and warn of a massive second wave, and, then, just yesterday to warn of yet one more "second wave". Yes, they have now promised us two second waves. They can't even count their waves correctly. I guess that is why so many Thai people simply live for the day and, in fact, don't plan beyond tomorrow. It all makes a certain sort of sense to me now. Because when you get right down to it, this type of "governance" creates a psychology in the victim not too different from Stalin's Russia (remember, I said a "psychology", not a comparison to actual mass murder) in which insecurity is always at the forefront of people's minds. If Thai authorities ever wanted to create the conditions in which their "unique caring society", to quote from another TV thread's heading, might succomb to rebellion, they couldn't do better than the arrogant, dismissive attitude they've applied to their flood "management" response.

It's difficult to fully follow the point of this rant but nobody is deciding to destroy certain areas.

You really think that western Bangkok is flooded because water is being flushed from the central areas?

Look at a map. There's a ton of water in Pathum Thani, Nakhom Pathom and Nonthaburi and it's gradually moving south. The water in Nonthaburi would flow into Thonburi no matter water happens in central Bangkok.

The problem is that there is poor drainage throughout central Thailand and the water can't be controlled!

This might be due to poor long-term planning, but neither the central government or BMA have much control over where water is flowing.

What a weird statement. So many people have lost their homes and they still need to work, eat and shi...t..

Some people need to go into the water. Many others are going into the water without the need for it.

Wrong crowd to be telling this to. Try telling it to the 10s of 1000s who are walking and swimming in the water every day.

I don't understand the relevance of that reply Tokay. You might as well say the same thing about the opening article.

Surely, as well, the financial implications of all this to the country are relevant to us all and not particularly in a selfish way.

No, I think Tokay is stating that most people on ThaiVisa are not in danger of electrocutions.

The people in danger of electrocutions are those we see on TV everyday playing in the floodwater.

Some of the government thinking about this is a little backward. Save the downtown businesses at the expense of the residential and neighborhood commerical areas. Makes sense, right...the 'heart' of the city and it's economic engine?

Yes, but.....don't the downtown businesses have more resources and money to repair and reconstruct than individuals homeowners and small businesses? The big malls and businesses downtown are more likely to be insured, also. Also, if you lose a business, okay, you lose a business and you come in and work until it is up and running again. But if you lose your home and your neighborhood, it is much more difficult to cope and stay focussed on moving forward.

There's a bit of the same mentality here as in the US where banks 'too big to fail' were bailed out by taxpayers, but the taxpayers got screwed. For instance, my bank, Chase, got billions in bailout funds. However, during 2011, Chase plead guilty in two separate court cases for it's business practices and paid millions of dollars in fines. But, I digress.

The businesses downtown are simply more able to rebound from a disaster or flood, in this case, than individuals and small businesses.

The central business district is the heart of the Thai economy so, of course, they'll try to protect it. The longer it can not function, the longer the economic impact on the whole country.

But it's a small area and not being saved "at the expense" of other areas. Places that are flooded are flooded... water needs to be drained but there's a lot of it.

Also, the Bangkok government is not only focusing on the central area. They are trying to prevent flooding in other key areas, too.

Yesterday, they announced plans to try to preserve some districts in Thonburi by holding water in areas in which flooding already exists and can't be stopped.

It's impossible to quickly unflood effected areas so the next best thing to do is try to limit the spread of flooding.

And, yes, the plan is economically motivated. It will be impossible to prevent flooding on Phetkasem so they'll need to do all they can to preserve Rama 2 Road or else travel to and from the west and south will become nearly impossible.

Everyone is staying that the canals dont drain much but they drain almost 1/3 of the total of the river.

They must be talking excess water.

This is the total of all the canals east of the the Chao Phraya combined with the Bang Pakong River.

is this an attempt by the government to pass the blame onto the local people for the flooding???

Just my view ! good luck Bangers and all the people living in and around there, it sounds like everyone's getting caught up in the "political war' please be safe !

Kevin

Yes, this seems strange.

Why would they do something against their better judgment just because some people protest?

And why would this canal effect yesterday's claims about the numerous provinces that would likely remain dry, especially the southern half of Thonburi? Opening Sam Wa canal won't increase flooding in Thonburi.

It seems like they're looking for a scapegoat.

And, no the water won't go "straight to the sea." Intersecting canals go to the gulf but Sam Wa runs east-west and much of the water will flood.

Neither of the bolded statements are true.

Pourquoi mon vieux?

The flood water from the north can't drain NATURALLY to the sea which is south of Bangkok. Or did I miss something?

Admittedly the floods are not over yet, but so far the city's batting average against all the worst forecasts and prognosis since the middle of the month is pretty impressive. Or did I miss something else?

Yes, you did miss something. Water is being drained via the Chao Phraya. Water is also being drained to the east of Bangkok, and then down to the gulf.

The "protected area" is pretty small. It's not holding back anything. Also right below the "protected area" is another bend in the Chao Phraya, not the gulf.

Your statement about Bangkok avoiding flood damage is false. There are quite a few areas of Bangkok that are currently flooded.

Purposely left politics out of my post.

Look at the map and make your own call.

Open or let the rest suffer??

The "protected area" is 10 kms wide at most.

The flooded area covers a spread of about 70 kms.

What difference does it make to any of the areas to the north? Plus, the water is being run off to lower ground to the east.

I think the people who think that central Bangkok is blocking the flow of water into the gulf need to do 3 things:

1) Check a satellite image of the extent of the flooding. It will not all flow into, for example, Silom.

2) Look at a map of central Thailand. The "protected area" does not border the gulf.

3) Look at a topographical map of central Thailand. The eastern part of Bangkok is 1-2 meters lower than the "protected area."

The needs to be improvements in the draining of floodwater but this problem is not only Bangkok-related.

Flooded areas have been under water for weeks because of drainage inadequacies in all of affected areas.

To be honest, the way that the Department of Disaster Mitigation & Prevention is set up, there's Provincial committee's that are headed up by the governors of the affected provinces. Bangkok has it's own headed by the BMA governor. Now, the floods have been affecting the provinces for months and I would assume that they have been doing whatever they can under the strictures of the Disaster Prevention & Mitigation Act 2007 to resolve the provincial problems with the Interior Ministry. Now, we have the water pooling on the north side of Bangkok primarily because Bangkok's flood mitigation is based solely on the premise of keeping all waters out regardless of the impact on areas outside their jurisdiction. Basically, Bangkok is sitting on the blocked plughole and doesn't want to call (or pay for) the plumber.

They are on a hiding for nothing IMHO. The fact that Bangkok will probably avoid any serious flooding this year means that it will all be shifted onto the back-burner for another year. In the interim, it will be politicized up the ying-yang and will be the basis for many more meaningless promises from the incumbent government AND the opposition.

Neither of the bolded statements are true.

More likely the water would go where it wants to go and drain out to the ocean much faster instead of burying the rest of us in an extended inland sea where the water just pools and stagnates.

No, the problem is that there are not currently good drainage routes to divert the water to the gulf. That is why the water is moving so slowly from the provinces north of Bangkok.

The "protected" central areas of Bangkok do not border the border the gulf. Also, the eastern parts of Bangkok are slightly lower than the "protected" areas.

Why do the news report always refer to people as 'villagers'. I live not too far from this area, and the flood waters creep closer each day. I live in a suburb of Bangkok. I am not a villager, not that I would care, but they always make us sound like uneducated idiots.

The idea of saving the Central Business District is understandable, but there is a limit as to how long you can live in flood waters. There is a point where it's not a flood, it's a lake.

Enough already, let that water get to the sea where it belongs.

I think "villagers" is just a semantics issue and not a derogatory term. All communities tend to be referred to as villages, even more upscale housing developments.

The central business district is a pretty small area. Protecting it isn't really preventing water from flowing to the gulf.

As for the Thonburi side, the Lieutenant governor was was on channel 3 about a half hour ago.

It seems like their plan now is to hold up the water in the Bang Khae area and try to divert water from there into outlets to the sea. If I understood correctly, he said Bang Khae will be flooded for an extended period of time and will receive compensation... I'm not sure how the compensation plan will work.

I think they are trying to keep Rama II Road functional at all costs.

So much for the PM's pronouncement that the worst is over.

They didn't take into account that while the tide is going down a bit new water will come from the north and the full canals will overflow in many areas with the next tide, even a little tide. It seems as they can't drain the water fast enough.

I think the "worst is over" is referring to the central BKK areas considered "most important" by the government. Those areas aren't likely to get much flooding.

@ FangFerang. No, my post isn't optimistic. West of the Chao Phraya will have major problems.

I say that protecting central Bangkok doesn't have much effect on the west because there's a ton of water in Nakhom Pathom and Nonthaburi that is flowing into the western parts of Bangkok, soon into Samut Sakhon and maybe into parts of Samut Sangkhram. Protecting a few central districts will have little effect because that water has already left the direct path of the Chao Phraya.

I don't think the problems in the western part of Bangkok were unforeseen, either.

Western parts of Bangkok and Samut Sakhon have been listed as medium to risk areas all along.

i am in Bangbon, and far from the grist mill of inundation, but when I went to the very large tent market just west of here (three kilometers west of the Big C near Bangbon 3) they had ankle-deep floodwater, and rising. This has never happened before, an aging seamstress told me as she made a dress. The water fields are moving south, on both sides of Bangkok improper. As the PM and Governor said, "the worst is over", but only for the SET financial district and hardcore downtown. For the rest of us, the water is coming, and to keep them dry. I understand this logically, SET and Siam Mall are obviously more important than Teacher Fred, but emotionally I feel like they short-sheeted my bed.

I don't think that protecting what the government considers key areas of Bangkok has that much effect on those of us to the west of the Chao Phraya.

There's too much water directly north of us. They best they can do is manage the flow and try to get it to the gulf.

I seem to recall that you can buy ready mixed and flavoured packets of ORT formula in most pharmacies (I might be wrong). Worth a look if you still have the chance.

Yes, usually about 5 Baht per packet.

Even a sports rehydration like Sponsor drink can help.

Way to go Governor Sukumbond.

No... way to go, Thaksin.

He's the one who paid off the moon to makes the tidal effect on the Chao Phraya lower.

So can it be confirmed that the most dangerous part of the flood situation is over?

The super high tides run through tomorrow, there's another round in the middle of November and there's still the gigantic blob of water north of BKK.

So not over. But this good news and, hopefully, this this buys more time for water to flow/be diverted into the Gulf.

"More than 30 THA members last week offered special rates to help Thai flood victims of Bt600, Bt900 and Bt1,200 per night until November 5. All these rooms were sold within days of the campaign launch."

No talk of government subsidised rooms? Probably open to flagrant abuse I suppose. Has the government set up shelters in Pattaya, Hua Hin etc for the 90% of people for whom a hotel room is a dream?

There are shelters available for people that need to be evacuated.

But most of the people leaving are doing it by choice.

Most areas of BKK will retain power... staying will be inconvenient but possible.

The Topic states:- We Lived With Floods Before; Why Can't We Do So Again?

The vast majority of Thai's today have not lived with a flood this size at all. I think it was some 50 years ago that anything this big hit Thailand and the capitol Bangkok was no way as big as it is now and had no where near the population it has today, let alone all the other cities and villages that have been wiped out and more heartbreak to come. You only have to look at the stress on the peoples faces, the heartbreak and the tears, that includes the Politicians who have also broken down due to the drama of it all.

The article is about 2 things: 1) How to design buildings and communities that are more water flexible; 2) How to deal with water flow (i.e., whether or not to use the strategy emphasizing the blocking water flow).

Both are relevant issues on how Thailand deals annual flooding in the future.

I'm not sure why this article makes you so angry... by your comments it seems that you haven't even read it.

So there's one article that is more conceptual and deals with future planning? The Nation and Thai Visa have dozens of other articles and topics about the current flooding.

can anybody please tell me how the situation is or gonna be in Rama 2 area Pantai norasing ???

p.s. my sympathy to the victims of the flood

I don't think anything is certain because it's in between the flooding around Bang Khae and the likely/possible flooding in Mahachai after this weekend's high tide.

Most likely...

Any flooding will be minimal and only in certain pockets because a lot of the area is 1 meter+ higher than surrounding areas.

Rama 2 Road should be passable. Likely electricity will remain on.

Tap water comes Nahhom Pathom via a treatment plant in Mahachai. Water should should be OK unless there is contamination after the high tide.

Let's see. A human being can last for three days with no water, and can last for three weeks with no food. So if this 4 to 6 weeks number is true, I sure as hell hope they have an intelligent plan to get water and food to all the stranded people.....

i doubt 1 meter of water is going to stop anyone getting to 7/11

But will there be any food or water in the 7-Eleven? That's the real concern.

If 1 meter is correct, that wouldn't be enough to effect all of BKK.

Sure, some communities will be heavily effected. But it won't be much different than getting supplies to the people in other provinces who have been flooded for a few a few months.

Go to

http://flood.firetree.net/

Zoom out to see world map then select and zoom into Bangkok area. Standard setting is 7m for flood situation. But set to 0m so you can see the map better. After you zoom into your area, set the level back to 7m to see if you area is in the flood zone. If you want to protect your assets, set your sand bags barrier to cater for more than 7m above sea level. e.g. if the map show that your area is safe at 6m but flooded at 7m, then you need to add more than 1m of sand bags barrier to protect your place.

But for this situation you may want to increase the height of your sand bags barrier, as some areas in Ayutthaya which are over 7m above sea level are flooded with over 1m of water. Remember to block the water drainage and toilet bowl as well, you don't want the shit to flow back into your house.

Thanks for the link. This is very useful and definitely helps with relative elevation levels.

There will never be a answer to the problems in the south as long as Thailand pretends it is not a religious issue.

I have not followed it very much but it seems to me that they do not want to tie up with Malaysia which they have a lot in common with. So much for the cultural issue.

Imagine if every different tribe in Thailand was to take the stand on government like the one Muslims take. (my way or the high way) How about all the Chinese living in villages in northern Thailand the Karong the long neck people. The list goes on. It would seem that only the Muslims are so stuck on them selves that they do not want to be a part of any thing they want to be the all.

What other religion makes war on itself. We don't like the Buddhist so we will set car bombs to kill Muslims. Send them all to Antartic whee they can do as they wish with out any interference.

You don't follow the issue enough, yet your able to lump all Muslims together regarding this problem?

It isn't a strictly religious issue. The southernmost areas were an independent sultanate before being given to Thailand during colonial territorial trading. I might not think that independence is realistic for those provinces but there are always problems when a group of people feel they are being colonized. Certainly not all Muslims in the far south feel this, but enough do to make it a real problem.

What does the making war on itself even mean? Are you claiming that there's never been a case of Buddhist person killing another Buddhist, or a Christian killing another Christian and so on? Dividing lines aren't that simple.