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A) 1.1% good. B) This does not make you « house master » is makes you lessee. that’s the legal term and « house master » could confuse with the « house holder » into a ta bian baan blue which has nothing to do with ownership. C) of course there is a legal obligation to pay the rent. You are totally wrong about that. But good lawyers will make an additional receipt that the rent has been paid in advance, for 30 years or 60 years, depending on cases. There is no défense of unpaid bill if paid in advance. This is bad advice as I saw cases of lease cancelled because the rent was not paid. D) You last paragraph shows that you had bad contracts or do not understand. A renewal is allowed by law. 540 allows a renewal and you put it in an addendum with good clauses. 168 is a declaration of intention, you make this sign by the owner so if the owner dies during 30 years, it binds their heirs by a retroactive effect. a clause should be added about any restrictions to the lease, damages, or whatever happens if the lessor does not respect the lease, the lessee can claim back any damage + legal fees + interests + lawyer’s fees. That is pretty good to dissuade the lessor to make problems…. ???? In pure civil law, a usufruct is stronger than a lease because it is a real right. Under Thai law, the registration of the lease, according to Thai lawyers, if nicely drafted, makes it as strong as a real right. I disagree but understand the principles. You can object oppose your rights to third parties and you are safe for 30 years sure. And I would say 60. But I only live here for 19 so I never seen a second renewal or a refusal of a renewal contested in court. I know about the Phuket case but it is very different. Everything above, I knew that in 2007 and I modified and improved my agreements since then. Big law firms will charge 40,000 baht for that? We do it for 10,000 with 4 documents, bilingual, instructions and consultation included. We include superficies clauses in the lease and in our addendum to a usufruct. I Will change the website this week about Usufruct contract, I think it is better to call it addendum to usufruct and a clause to supersedes the land department agreement.

I doubt Brian Ramsden has a background as a lawyer. And could you tell me what does he have done for expats? Would you hire a building company whose manager has a background in accounting? I would not.

You seem fascinated by them. I build the company for 16 years. Which lawyer do you find great working there now? I do not see many lawyers with tons of experience in Thailand, sincerely. i am Sebastien. Now, at ThaiLawOnline.

This is a disguise of Isaan Lawyers. Sebastien is now at ThaiLawOnline. The new manager at Isaan Lawyers hardly 10% or the texts on their website. He just arrived in 2022 to Thai law. Hope you are well Dan. Seb.

You are correct. If people know what they do, there are benefits and downside. but you are wrong about the 50 years, or whatsoever. A client of mine told me the Poo Yai baan told him his Por Bor Tor would be Chanotte in a year or 2, that was 15 years ago. The government is doing the same things as 20 years ago when I came here. 1. a foreigner can not really protects himself on Por Bor Tor. A lease of 3 years with option to renew? Even if he divorce, you can not sell this land in action as it belongs to the gouvernment.. You have possessory rights. 2. You wrote « the land is yours, as a Thai. » No, the is to the government and you only have possessory rights but you can sell these rights, while Sor Por Kor can’t. 3. You never know when it will be Chanotte and it must be done by the government. Titles like Tanarak seems more beneficial to me. But no law firm talk about Tanarak. I will try to solve this problem in 2 months as this month, I work on citizenship, permanent residency, visas and others in our website. 4. There are limits to Por Bor Tor not complete described in English in internet. Like it is for agricultural purposes, can’t be own by companies and many others. I love their price, I love nature, but the average marriage is about 8 years ago so do not invest more than you can lost. I have seen with my own eyes 2 crazy cases. a) a client entering my office with two suitcases. He opened them and it was full of Chanotte, Por Bor Bor, all given in guarantees for loans at obviously an illegal interest rate. Huge divorce, a mess of documents. To see 200-400 title deeds with contracts as guarantee for maybe 10-15 million baht was stunning for me. What does the foreigner thought? He could own this land? What did his wife did? Spent money and collected title deeds thst she will never use and would need one court case per title deed or some can be joint if it it the same party? Crazy. b ) a 72 yo client had problems with his wife would bought about 10 million in land of Por Bor Tor 5. At this age, he needed to teach English to make a living as he had less than 1-2 million left and his wife did not want to sell any land. He paid 100%. In negotiation, she wanted 10 million from him and the guy had 2 and he should have been awarded half of the land. The judge awarded him half of the land but you can not sell in auction + other damages. I told him she will appeal as he was 72. She did appeal. She sued him in defamation too, completely ludicrous. But he had to defend himself, pay a lawyer, etc. He agrees to conceal his rights on land and she cancelled her appeal and defamation. That’s what he wanted. To leave her and pay nothing, he got it, but it took a year or two, it was not pleasant but we did our best. Myself, I would never buy anything under Nor Sor Sam. You need to really own rights on the land and register rights, whatever you choose. Register rights in the land and keep the Chanotte in pledge. Better if not married but even married is fine, there is marital property and you can play with words in agreements, adding superficies to usufruct or lease, stating money to buy the land was inheritance, gift or obtained before marriage and hoping that it never goes to court. ????

You sound like Robert Spelde. Samui for Sale and Thai-Contracts. However, I would never use a template to purchase a property or protect my rights on something of fee hundreds thousands bahts or millions. ????

This is not entirely accurate. I have been the manager of a Thai law firm for 17 years and have drafted more than 250 wills under Thai law. Under Thai law, if there is no will, the assets will be distributed to the heirs according to the following order of priority: (clause 1629 of Thai commercial and civil code hereinafter “ccct”) Children Parents brothers and sisters 5 and 6. Other relatives rarely used, The spouse is considered an heir under Thai law, but their position in the order of priority depends on whether they have any children or parents alive (clause 1635 CCCT puts the legal spouse at #1 or #2) For example, if a person dies without a will and has no children, their spouse will inherit all of their assets. However, if a person dies without a will and has children, their spouse will inherit half of their assets, with the other half being divided equally among the children. If there is no legal spouse but parents, the parents will get 100%. If there is a legal spouse and a parent alive, but no children, the legal spouse has 50% and the parents have 50%. A foreign will can be valid in Thailand, but it must comply with Thai law. I would not recommend making a will in Thailand without speaking to a lawyer first. The prices and services of law firms vary widely, so it is important to shop around and compare prices. A good will should include the following features: Easy-to-follow instructions The appointment of an executor The designation of beneficiaries called legatees Provisions for funeral arrangements Other relevant clauses like controller of property, tutor etc. The will should also be written in Thai and English so that it is clear. Price will vary from 5,000 to 37,500 (Siam-Legal I think) and it is not because you pay more that your Will is better. We ask 6,000 baht. it can be done online, to save time and without having to travel. A videoconference is included to be sure that the client understand each point. A good attorney Will do more than just a last Will, he will think about estate planning, if you can save taxes, or ways to secure the intentions of the testator while he is still alive. A .Living Will is also accepted in Thailand, Assets in different countries should be governed by different Wills that should not be in conflict with each others. Laws of every country are different so it is better to consult a British lawyer for UK and a Thai Law firm for Thailand. Sebastien H. Brousseau,

We call this a defensive mechanism. You are projecting your own problems onto someone else. So let me answer you: For your information, in 2008, I was the one who translated the visa extension for all foreigners in Thailand, free of charge. This is known as Police Order 777/2551. I am not the one who causes problems for expats; I solve their problems. Having permanent residency does not mean I know more than others, but it is the most difficult thing to obtain, and I did it on my own. This means that I also have a certain understanding of Thailand. Just like you like to say that you are a naturalized Thai citizen, which I could also apply for tomorrow. You say that to make me look like I don't know about Thai culture. Well, I also lived in Isaan, had Thai employees, and can read and write Thai. I have no lessons to learn from you. I put that to show you that I am also integrated into Thai culture and there is nothing that you wrote that I didn’t know. But you are attacking the wrong person and I was not impolite, just putting you at your place. Do foreigners like me cause problems? I am the one who challenged the TM30 law in 2019 and started the movement to change it. Many people like you said that nothing would come of it, but the government changed the policy in 2020 and eased the TM30 requirements. You are right that non-confrontational and third-party solutions are the best way to solve problems, but that is my job. I do this every day. I am not being impolite; I am telling you that you have no idea who you are talking to. I have more experience with ombudsmen, courts, Thai authorities, and problem-solving than you could ever imagine. I explained the case of the foreigner who complained about the residence permit as an anecdote. I know the guy, and I disagree with what he did and how he did it. I am not Belgian. Name one foreigner who has changed Thai law. I don't know of any except myself. So sit down, stop shouting, and learn a little bit. It is very impolite to be stubborn, to underestimate other people, and to explain things like you are the only one who knows. I have dealt with 30 different ombudsmen in my life in different countries. You are the one who does not know that. This is me in a BBC article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-49470726 And this is the link to the modifications to the TM30 law that were made in 2020 to help foreigners: https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/1941048 You have no idea what I have done to help expats in Thailand. You, what did you do to help expats or Thailand? Giving money to a temple? What an arrogant guy you are. Telling someone who has 30 years of experience in law, 17 in Thailand, how to use an ombudsman and how to deal with legal problems. You are like the sick patient telling the doctor what to do and telling him he is also impolite, arrogant, know nothing about medications and you know more because you got the disease…. Great arguments. I do not have time and more energy to read your next comments so do not be surprised if I don’t reply. I feel it is un accessory and losing my time. Because you know so much about how the Thai system works…

Exactly. You met people that are stubborn, useless and do not understand. That happens so many times in Thailand. They apply rules without knowing why they apply it. They do not think very deep….

Unfortunately, I am a foreign attorney, with 19 years living in Thailand. i managed a law firm for 17 years. I took immigration twice at the administrative court and won twice. Not only that, a client of mine works for the administrate court in Bangkok and told me everything you can imagine or not about the administrative court. I also have permanent residency. So I have NO IDEA who you are, what job you do, but I think I know what I am doing,. I do not want to be impolite, but you really have no idea about what you talk. Because I doubt you ever dealt with the administrative court in Thailand and I deal with court every month, for 17 years, hundreds of cases. Good luck with your “ombudsman”. Whatever you do, if it works for you, do it. I was living in Isaan and never pay tea money for an extension. I might know people more affluent that you and I do know cultural things like “losing face” and many others. Thailand is a country of compromise but when you have tried and it does not work, some courts will do the job. Ask Prayut about the constitutional court. ????

I can explain the history of the fees for the certificate of residency. It is not in the law, it is not in a regulation. Around 2007-2008, a Belgian man complained in Korat about the new 200 baht fee for the certificate of residency. It was free before, but they decided to charge 200 baht. After the complaint, which was posted on local forums that immigration officers also read, they stopped providing the service for a few months. They removed the forms that were normally available at the counter. The pressure from foreigners who wanted the service to be available again for things like driver's licenses was high. They eventually resumed the service, but they started charging 500 baht. This was followed by many other offices that used to provide the service for free, and the fees ranged from 200 to 500 baht. At first, the document had a date but no expiration date. Later, I saw documents that said "valid until September 30, 2010" for example. The document was necessary for driver's licenses (if you do not have a work permit or a yellow ta bian baan). It was also required by foreign banks as proof of address. A client of mine once made a police report about his address to buy a car, and it worked perfectly. However, this was in Khon Kaen around 2008-2009. I am still confused about why the transportation department would accept a document from immigration but not a lease agreement. Immigration will issue a certificate of residency based on a lease agreement, without any verification (normally, unless they have changed their procedures). TIT. Thailand is a land of bureaucracy and paperwork. Immigration once refused to issue me a document similar to a re-entry permit. I took them to the administrative court and got it the next day. You cannot always let authorities play their "arbitrary" games. There is a thin line between discretion and arbitrariness. Grey areas are everywhere in Thailand. Unfortunately, they are slowing down progress, human rights and the rule of law in this country, I have friends that LOVE these grey areas as they can do here, what would be impossible in western countries.

Most people here do not understand what lawyers do. Lawyers are there to protect their clients and prevent problems. Lawyers can surely go to court and ask high fees, but the great lawyers will be the one preventing problems at a lower cost. In theory and practice, a foreigner can own a building and have some rights to the land. In some cases, they may even own the land outright for up to 30 years, such as under the Sap Ing Sith rights. However, in practice, separating the land and house is often not very useful. For example, what happens in the event of a divorce? Even if the couple is not married, a judge could still argue that they had a commercial partnership. And who would really want to buy just a house and not the land? I have tried two or three times to sell a house without the land through the legal execution office. Each time, it was a mess. In reality, your rights to the land will ultimately determine your strength in terms of ownership of the entire property. There are a few ways to protect your rights to the land as a foreigner. One is to obtain superficies, which grants you automatically ownership of the structures on the land (unless married, then half usefully). You can also obtain a building permit in your name. And you can also separate the land and house by making an announcement to that effect. I like to add superficies in lease agreements or even usufruct agreements. Especially when the foreigner is not married and I love to add a MOU. Remember that in civil law, “contracts are the law between the parties”. Let's imagine a couple, where the Thai woman owns the land and the foreign man owns the house. If they never separate, divorce, or have any problems, then they technically do not even need any contracts. However, contracts are there to prevent problems from happening in the first place. Can you see the mess that you could create by separating the house and the land? What if the land owner starts making problems for the house owner? Or what if the house ownership cannot be transferred to another foreigner because they do not have rights to the land? Looks at all options possible and select the one that suits you the best. Yes, consulting a reputable law firm will usually help to clarify these issues. The more money you spend on a property, the more precautions you should take. Unless, of course, you really do not care. I have actually changed my position on usufruct agreements. I was one of the first people to talk about them in 2008. However, my new way to make it is an addendum to the usufruct agreement. This is because the usufruct contracts issued by the Land Department are not very good and I do not wish to confuse the contract of the land department and the one made by a law firm. I will have to adjust my website. Law firms that sell templates for 1,000 baht are not being serious. Would you buy a template without any consultation and then try to do it yourself? For important matters like properties or Last Wills? I don’t think you should not take any chances. A simple consultation with a lawyer and one or two agreements will cost around 10,000 baht, but this is a small price to pay for peace of mind. Of course, if you go with Baker Mackenzie, Tilleke Gibbins, or even Siam-Legal it will cost you 4 times that price. I have seen it all in my 17 years of working with Thai lawyers. I have seen fake Chanotte documents, counterfeit signatures, properties that are not in the name of the wife but the mother, malicious transfers to family members, mortgages or sales with rights of redemption (Kaifak) registered without the spouse's consent, and much more. There are some benefits to separating the land and house, such as tax advantages. However, I rarely see anyone talking about this, not even websites of law firms. Most foreign lawyers were trained in Common Law, and some civil law concepts are quite different. You might find more misinformation or Facebook or forums than good advice.. Posting under nicknames does not help credibility. One member here is obviously someone I know.

I believe you mean ThaiLawOnline. The manager of Isaan Lawyers has only been there since 2022. I was the manager from 2006 to 2021. ???? Happy to help.

Not yet in Chiangmai. I should do one in Chiangrai in November. Do not be after with Chiangmai : I went MANY times do very special agreements and never had any problem. I do not come often so it took me a while to answer. I am trying to put more info on our website, about all subjects, different langages…it takes a lot of time.

it is not specific to Chiangmai but some land department like Samui, Phuket, Pattaya (where there are many foreigners) can be more difficult…. I am not saying they want tea money but read between the lines. Lease is normally fine except between married people. The land department collects a 1.1% tax and that makes money for the country. The rights of Sap Ing Sith, for me, seems better than a 30 years lease and totally legal for foreigners. I wrote an article in it here: https://thailawonline.com/sap-ing-sith-thailand/ and you might save some money as registration is 20,000 baht but lawyers will ask you more than a lease as it is not common. Also, I would make an addendum and declaration of intention to renew. The last time I register rights in Chiangmai was during COVID, 2020. There was no problem and that was before they asked to make appointments. We just had so many. Police stops during the trip checking why we were crossing provinces…. Really think about Sap Ing Sith instead of lease.

I did not read the full topic. Only "consenting spouse"? Does not means he is not guarantor? Bank contracts are normally quite long and banks protect themselves. If his signature was required, it is probably because she needed a "guarantor". What if there is a clause in the contract that we have not seen saying "The consenting spouse is a guarantor". And if he is married to her, the property is considered common property. (1474 Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand, hereinafter, "CCCT"). Then you have 1488 to 1490 CCCT that can apply. ==================================== Section 1488. Personal Liability to Perform Where either spouse is personally liable to perform an obligation incurred before or during marriage, such performance shall be first made out of his or her Sin Suan Tua; if the obligation is not performed in full, it shall be satisfied out of his or her portion of the Sin Somros. Section 1489. Collection of Debt from both Marital and Separate Property Where both spouses are common debtors, the performance shall be made out of the Sin Somros and the Sin Suan Tua of both spouses. Section 1490. Debts that both spouses are jointly liable to perform, shall include the following debts incurred by either spouse during marriage: debts incurred in connection with management of household affairs and providing for the necessaries of the family, or maintenance, medical expenses of the household and for proper education of the children; debts incurred in connection with the Sin Somros; debts incurred in connection with a business carried on by the spouses in common; debts incurred by either spouse only for his or her own benefit but ratified by the other. ==================== Banks are not stupid. He is probably liable and I am sure at 99.99999%. The 0.000001 is I didn't see the full contract and nobody is perfect.

Yep. We have not seen the contracts but he seems to have signed as collateral. My ex-wife was also get her salary deducted to pay for the mortgage that we had. I was the guarantor. But I knew that she would not default as long as she worked, as her salary was over the mortgage. But obviously, anyone could lose a job... Estranged wife? That's a NO-NO. The first week off my first class of "property law", my teacher was Albert Bohemier. He was a famous professor about bankruptcy. He told us that "You never, never, never, accept to be guarantor. Why? Because you have nothing to gain but can only lose something." He added that the only exception would if you know that you can lose, but you want to help, like your sister. In my case, I was guarantor of my wife, buying a house for both of us. And under Thai law, the property was marital assets (Sin Somros, under 1474 of the Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand). So I had NO PROBLEM. The problem was the bank to accept me as I was a foreigner. They accepted because I had a work permit for many years and both had a good salary, but her salary was not enough according to the bank, So I was guarantor. That branch told me that I was the first foreigner at their branch (Nakhon Ratchasima, one of the Krung Thai bank) to have been accepted. That was 2011.

I am not always here and busy tonight. I will try to answer you quickly but not sure if I can check back the answer before few days. 1) inheritance: Yes. Same as a lease. Not a usufruct. 2) renewal : John Spooner says yes. I read the law and it is not clear compare to clause 540 CCCT which allows one renewal. But my personal opinion is yes. The way I would do it is to sign a declaration of intention under 168 of the civil code (if I remember correctly) that agrees to renew at the same conditions of for 50% of the full price already paid. So renewal is prepaid. The declaration of intention has a retroactive effect by law and binds the heirs. That’s how I would do it but I need to search more on the Sap Ing Sith. I know John Spooner registered the first in Nakhon Ratchasima province and I might register one in Kanchanaburi soon. It is not confirmed. Any contract unless clearly specifies and against public order can be renewed in civil law. We say the contract is the law between the parties. And for me, the declaration of intention would solidify that renewal. I also do it for leases. The Thai lawyers that John worked with made a search about it. I personally made my own search but did not double check with land departments. The declaration of intention to renew is never shown to the land department and I use an addendum to the lease for the renewal for also some personal reasons. You want to avoid the land department to refuse your contracts. 3) I think this is kind of new. When I started to make usufructs in 2006, nobody was doing usufruct. There was an English lawyer name William on teskdoor that wrote about a little. I read the civil code entirely, maybe 2-3 times in 2006-2008. I asked a Thai lawyer working with us what he thought about usufruct. He never did one, we registered the first in about 30-50 land department and it was hard at the beginning. We had to show the land department how to do it. One of our lawyer has a copy of the land department books about how to do contracts there. So we explained them. It became easier and easier especially after 2010. My guess, this will be the same for that. I doubt Thai people will use it between them. It will be more useful for foreigners. 4) if you know Thailand, there is always discretionary rights. You have to be nice, smile, ask to help, etc. If they refuse and you know the judicial system, think « the administrative court ». They are over all government agencies and quite powerful. It is over the land departments, labour departments, immigration or police. Discretion and arbitrary are different. i sued twice immigration at the administrative court and I won twice. I was the plaintiff and one was under an emergency request that was granted Unless they can prove that someone is illegal, or not provided as requested by the law, my opinion that they can not refuse. In the first years I was doing usufruct, I was preparing the Thai owner to understand what was a usufruct. The directors of land department were often trying to make her change her mind as they thought it was giving too much rights to the foreigner…. This is not a joke. I saw it at least 10 times in land departments. Sebastien.

Sap Ing Sith is not a lease. It is ownership for 30 years. Limited but ownership. Thailand is a mixed law country. Parts were based on civil law and parts on common, and on top, some customs like measures or land in rai. i come from Quebec, another mixed law place which is kind of rare in the world. In Civil Law, property is divided in 3 parts. We call them in Latin “usus”, “fructus” and “abusus”. You understand that usufruct is the first two parts. So foreigners are allowed to have usufruct because it is not a full ownership and not forbidden by law. We call if a « démembrement » of property rights. That world would be translated like a « dismemberment »? The “abusus” part is the right to sell, destroy, abuse. And Sap Ing Sith gives the right to sell. So it is full ownership but for a limited time and I imagine that depending on contract, you might have to give back the property in a certain way like you got it. But it is way better than a lease of 30 years. When I read that foreigners can not own land in Thailand, I always think that : - they can if allowed by the BOI. - they can allowed by a decree if they invest 40 million baht (these two are the most common, below is less common but do exist) - they can in a majority foreign own Thai company in industrial estate by the state owned industrial estate Authority of Thailand - they can have the permission to own land granted by the petroleum concessionaires under the petroleum act - they can of bank of financial institution that have become owned with the bank of Thailand consent, with some rules - some property funds licensed by the sec of Thailand can also have all their units owned by foreigner under some conditions. - the land code allows foreigners to inherit if they get the permission. We know they don’t in reality, but it could. - and I do not mention that it could be done by treaty but they don’t do it anymore even if the law allows it. But instead, on forum, it is so easy to propagate the illusion that it is impossible and nothing change in Thailand…. Well it does change. Who could imagine 10 years ago that marijuana would be legal here? What is important for people investing in real estate in Thailand is to know what can be done, what are the benefits and disadvantages, and make a decision based on your situation. The OP was talking about a right to own land : Sap Ing Sith is one. Whatever you say, it exist. Just like buying a condominium is owning some real estate for foreigners and allowed to some conditions.

Wow, so many wrong answers. Let me explain you few exceptions to land ownership and a new law since 2019. 1) there are exceptions to be able to own LAND in Thailand. For example, the BOI (board of investment in Thailand) can allow that. Another example is a decree that says 1 rai can be own with an investment of 40 million baht. That’s an old decree, but still valid and there are conditions. There are others laws and exceptions. I know one case where a foreigner got ownership or a land given by the king. Also, according to the land code, foreigners can inherit land but you need the permission of the authorities.p and they never give it, you have 180 days to 1 year to sell or transfer the property. Other exceptions about ownership of the land by foreigners are inside some laws (petroleum act, etc. But it is rare). 2) the lawyer was probably talking about rights of Sap Ing Sith. That was introduced in 2019. The owner of a property can provide rights of Sap Ing Sith to a foreigner for a maximum period of 30 years. The foreigner becomes a real owner. He can manage his property, even sublease without the right of the owner, and can even sell the balance of his right of Sap Ing .Sith. I wrote an article about it. i do think it is a good alternative to a 30 years lease, for a foreigner that is 60 yo and older, and does not care who will inherit the property. It gives him peace of mind for 30 years. It cost 20,000 baht to register rights of Sap Ing Sith at the land department. Most foreigners do not know about it because it was passed in 2019, before COVID and not many people talks about it. Every foreigner has a different situation depending of his age, his investment, if he has a Thai partner, if he is legally married or not, if he wants his heirs foreign or Thai to enjoy the property and others. Some will decide to do a usufruct, some a lease, some rights of Sap Ing Sith (I guess this will be more and more popular and I can tell you that nobody was doing usufruct before 2008 when I wrote an extensive article about it). Other clients prefer to make a mortgage, which protects more the money. And others setup a company. Yes, I know about nominees and there are ways with joint venture and others. But companies are more expensive because of accounting and many factors. Rights of superficies are very interesting and rarely used. I normally include them in a lease lease when a property already have a ta bian baan but I would rather have superficies than a usufruct if the land is not developed, as a foreigner in Thailand. Except if it is for speculation or to sell in a short period of time.

Not entirely true. The land department has a standard usufruct agreement. It normally never says that the owner (“naked-owner as it is called in civil law) can not sell the property. You might have a contract make by a law firm, like we do. The problem is sometimes, people do not respect contracts. So technically because the land department normally does not keep your personal agreement with your son, your son can sell the property, even if it is against your agreement. But the new owner will have to follow the usufruct registered in title deed.. Once, I saw the girlfriend of someone counterfeit the signature of a client on a power of attorney and also on his copy of passport. She took the Chanotte, cancel the usufruct and borrow money on the title deed. Or course, this is illegal, an extreme case and does not happen often. But I saw it. the usufructuary should keep the chanotte himself for more protection and we add a clause about it in our agreements. The land department never does it. Their agreement is about 5 clauses and very basic. i saw also someone able to register a Kaifak (sale with right of redemption) over a usufruct, I was surprised that the land department let it do it, but it is not illegal unless a contract states otherwise. But like I said, the contract done at the amphur are weak. When parties are not married, I suggest to add a .MOU between the parties which could have been done between your son and yourself. To make things clearer.

I did it many times in Chiangmai without any probkme. I actually registered Usufruct in probably 50 land departments or more, These are the problems we had in 15 years, mostly 10 years ago: - few years ago in Udon Thani, amphur Mueang, do not ask me why they were refusing. Now it is fine. - in one district of Ubon Ratchathani, they refused for an unmarried couple. That’s not in the law. The client wanted to register himself and he made a problem so impossible after. - in one place in Surin, the director refused lifetime. We showed him the law, he said no, did not want to lose face, he only did it for 30 years. - once around Chiangmai, they refused for more than 1 rai. Again, ni idea why. I did 12 rai in Chiangrai, That ‘s the problem of Thailand : when they do not know, they can tell you any crazy answer. When our lawyers went, we never been refused one time but 2006-2010 was more difficult than today.

Exactly. Let him give us ONE decision from a Thai court that cancels a usufruct in a divorce. I know none and I am waiting for someone to show me one for 10-15 years and more. I searched and searched. We also checked the supreme court judgments under 1469 and never could find one. I would oppose 1471 to 1469 to any Thai lawyer thinking the opposite. But I never seen it plead in Court. I have seen tons of cases where Thai lawyers say the land is PERSONAL PROPERTY as non married couples, under 1471. Judges will say it is a "partnership" even if not married and separate 50-50. I also did divorced with gay people, so unmarried under Thai law. it is 50-50. 95% of these cases are solved in negotiation. Only stubborn Thai believe that foreigners can't own nothing in Thailand but in Court, it does not work this way.

Yes, and I did it many times. This is where most foreigners do not understand: 1) A usufruct is not transmissible. It can give the right to use, possess, enjoy the land after the owner passes away to a person called the usufructuary. What is important in Thailand is to register the usufruct. 2) Ownership of land to foreigners is not forbidden. There are many exceptions in the law. Like a BOI company, someone investing 40 million baht by a decree, a gift from the king (yes, I heard about 1 case like that) and others do exist. Foreigners can INHERIT the land. You can read it in the land code (I made a link above). But they need the approval to the authorities which i think is the ministry of interior (Could be ministry of land), but they delegate their power to the land department. And in practice, I think I did 3-5 cases in 15 years, always refuse. Because you can ask to transfer to a foreigner... The law says when there is a refusal, you have a delay. There are other requirements in regulations : Like you must make an announcement somewhere, I can't recall. Often on the board of the land department, sometimes adding the tessaban or amphur, sometimes in the newspapers. I explain you one case I remember very well: a foreigner bought a property somewhere in Isaan. He paid 4 million himself. He was married. The wife paid nothing. No agreement, and no last Will for him or her. His wife dies suddenly. No children. This is complicated as we could say that 50% of the land/building is common property, he could get another 50% of 50% of his wife as her parents were still alive. So by law 75% to him and 25% to parents but the property is under the name of his deceased wife. Our client went to court, asked to be appointed as executor. We negotiated a deal with the parents of his deceased wife. They agreed to give him all rights for something like 300,000 and I can not recall. He was young (about 40 yo) had money and a good job. I think he was working abroad but he did like Isaan and wanted to stay in the property. He got a new girlfriend quickly and he transfer the property as executor from his deceased wife to the new girlfriend who signed a usufruct + another contract to protect him more. That was probably 10 years ago and I never heard of him after. The whole process took maybe 10 months: Going to court for appointing the executor, negotiating with the parents-in-law, making an agreement in Court, going to land department, getting a refusal if I remember to continue. Finding a Thai person to transfer when he got a new Thai partner, announcements, and finally the transfer into the delays. And we registered rights to protect him on top. He paid around 50,000 baht for all services including Court and land department, interpreter, some translation and 2 contracts. That was way too low for the work we did. You are talking about months, court, interpreter, land department, announcements, transfer, contracts, registration, etc.

Sorry, you really do not understand these concepts to write that. What you wrote is similar to that: "The important part is that's is registered on the land title deed as a mortgage" when you talk about a lease or a usufruct. Mortgage is different than a lease. A servitude is not a word that means "registration on a title deed". It is a concept, like lease, usufruct, right of habitation, mortgage, superficies, sale with rights of redemption" all of them can be registered on a title deed and a servitude is another one, a "right of way" of you wish, defined by CCCT in Thailand. Some defined it a "easement". That is a servitude. The registration is what we call "publicity' in Civil Law and it means that iff affects third parties because of the registration. Using the word "servitude'' like you do it a mistake in law. It makes problems on Internet: People confuse information or misinformation. Anyone can write anything and people will believe it because it is on Thailandlawonline like BenStark said or because it is written by me. No, the law is the law and referring directly to the law is the way to get real legal information. See document attached. That is servitude describe in Thai law. (translation in English),