ThaiLawOnline

Benstark: No, it wasn’t me posting on ThaiLANDlawonline. That is a Dutch lawyer that I know very well. We used to do stuff together but not anymore. Yes, confusing. ThaiLaw and ThailandLaw. i am ThaiLawOnline and Canadian. The Dutch lawyer studied also civil law, like myself. We can both disagree, like lawyers can. ThaiLawOnline was hacked last month and I am rebuilding it, with some artificial intelligence and new useful tool. It will be ready in a week or two. I need to update some texts, related to new rules, smart visas, Sap Ing Sith, 2 shareholders since February 2023, and new updates. The debate about 1469 was the same on Thaivisa 15 years ago. I never seen ONE usufruct cancelled. The Dutch lawyer is abroad and does not work every day with Thai lawyers like I do. Once, I asked Thai lawyers so search, double search, we did not find any case. But I saw twice, people are to register « Kaifak » or « sale with right of redemption » over a usufruct registered. I am surprised that the land department allowed it but I understand. We do a contract with additional clauses than the land department to avoid that. Thailandlawonline, Samuiforsale, and some other sites are all related to the Dutch lawyer. Same as Siam-Legal has Thaiembassy.com i was the founder of Isaan Lawyers and sold my shares to a British lawyer. i was the first to describe usufruct (explain with details and examples) in Thailand in English in 2008. There was an English lawyer named William that talked about it before me on another forum. But without much details. Lawyers study usufruct in Quebec, I knew what is was.Thai lawyers often do not know what it is when they finish their law degree. I know, I had to explain that to at least 10-20 Thai lawyers in my life. The do not learn about it but it is not used often here. But I thought it was good for foreigners as I knew the origin from Roman law. Lawyers from UK, USA or Australia normally do not know usufruct. Many bad examples were mentioned on Thaivisa like that usufruct were historically created for mining or companies cutting trees…. Which is ridiculous and confuse usufruct with another type of lease that we call « emphythéotique ». Usufruct are mostly used in Last Wills in France and Quebec. Here, it must be registered to have an effect on third parties. Thai lawyers think that registration of a lease makes it a real right. I understand the concept of registration but for me, it is still a personal right and not a real right. For me, in pure civil law, a usufruct is stronger than a lease. In France, there are also tax benefits to give a usufruct. i stopped posting on Thaivisa around 2008. I was attacked by anonymous people that later thought I was working for Siam-Legal. I was not. I actually did 3 months for them in 2007 and gladly left. Last time I did something big was contesting TM30 in 2019 and the same happened. Forum said I would never get 10,000 signatures, that it was useless to fight the Thai government but they did changed the law in 2020 and eased TM30. I often think Thailand is lawless country and that is completely strange to work in the legal field here. Especially in Isaan.

Just like prostitution is illegal in Thailand. We know that nominees exist, we know that it is widely used. We also know that it is illegal but in reality, it is very rare that it is used in court. I have seen it used against Thaksin, for example. Political purposes.

Mentioning that a usufruct between husband and wife can be cancelled tried to refer to clause 1469 of the CCCT. That’s old stuff I often see on forums but I believe it is completely wrong to say that. You do not understand the spirit of the law and how civil law works. You do not understand what means « publicity » in civil law which has nothing to do with advertising. Publicity is the act of making it applicable to third parties. This is why you register a usufuct at the land department. It affects all parties, same as a marriage for example, which is an act registered. In some countries, you must announced a marriage. I never seen ONE Usufruct cancelled by a court in a divorce. None. I saw tons of lease cancelled, for different reasons like the rent is not paid or whatever reason. You are completely forgetting 1471 of the civil code which is public order. Public order It is the law about marital property. And what does it say? A gift is personal property. Read 1471 when you read 1469 and that’s another reason why you make a Usufruct for free between married couples, and you add a MOU between unmarried couples. The MOU clarifies other stuff that I prefer not show the land department. Show me one case of usufruct given for free cancelled by. 1469 in court. I never seen one and I did 150 divorces in 15 years. Actually, death is one of the 3 ways to stop a marriage under Thai law. But death does not affect a registered Usufruct unless the parties decide otherwise in the contract. Stating that a usufruct can be cancelled like that, without any cases to back it up from any court is non sense.

I read that book "Thai Law for foreigners" when it went out around 2008. I found few mistakes, even if it is normally a good summary. You are making a legal mistake if you consider usufruct and right of habitation as "servitude". A servitude is a French civil law concept and defined in th CCCT., just like a usufruct. Common Law countries often call servitude "right of ways". It is used to give access for example of a piece of land. A usufruct is a real right, you can call it liens or an encumbrance on a title deed but the real term would be a "dismember" part of property rights, divided in usus, fructus and abusus in civil law. The usufruct between 1 + 2 but not 3. Servitude, Superficies, Right of habitation, usufruct are all part of book 4 of the CCCT. Servitude are at 1387 and different than usufruct 1417 or right of habitation at 1402. Right of habitation is not as strong as usufruct. Sap Ing Sith are also different and could be interesting. Because it started in 2019, I never seen a married couple doing it and I am not sure how the land department would react.

Hi, I am Sebastien and work for more than 15 years with Thai attorneys. Some information above is misleading or doesn't have enough info to answer. I have seen cases like that many times, when the Thai wife passes away before the foreigner. Below is what is important: 1. First you need to know about the title deeds of land. Nobody asked you that because most people on Forum are not attorneys. For example, you can not register a usufruct on land that is Por Bor Tor 5 or Sor Por Kor. I presume they are chanotte but some farm land is not.... 2. Second, there is a difference between inheritance and having the right to live on the property. The usufruct if the Land is Nor Sor Sam or higher could give you the right to live there, after she passes away. But not ownership. Usufruct is at section 1417 of Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand. (hereafter CCCT) 3. For inheritance ; It is done according to a Last Will. If none, then it is according to the law and you must verify if there are parents or children alive. The spouse is also a legal heir. If no children, no parents alive and you are the legal husband, you will inherit of everything according to sections 1629 and 1635 CCCT. If there is a parent or child or children alive, by law, you get 50%. 4. Third, it is not the Court that gives you right to sell. If something happens to her before you. You have to deal with inheritance if you are appointed executor by a Last Will or if you are a legal spouse under Thai Law and statutory heir. You go to court and they appoint you to be executor, with or without a last Will. As executor, then you go to the land department and and ask to transfer to a third party. It is the LAND CODE that says if it is not authorized (section 93 especially). Here are a translation of the Land Code by the Supreme Court of Thailand: http://web.krisdika.go.th/data/outsitedata/outsite21/file/Act_Promulgating_the_Land_Code_BE_2497_(1954).pdf You need the authorization to keep it on your name and they never do it. They delegate the powers to land department. So according so section 94, you have 180 days to 1 year to dispose of the property. The Court grants you to be executor and as executor, the land department will give you time to transfer or sell. If you sell, you can keep the proceeds. You could also transfer to a Thai person that you know and ask in return a contract to live there until you die. The problem is if you do wish the real estate to by given to a foreigner later.... There are ways around but it's land mine and could be difficult. If this land is chanotte, it might worth it to do both: A) Last Wills + usufruct or B) Last Wills and Sap Ing Sith rights (which is ownership for 30 years max and cost 20,000 baht to register). You can sell or transfer the balance of our 30 years to a third party. The land department will probably refuse a lease between husband and wife. It could also protect her that you make a last Will depending if you have children or parents alive. The Last Will makes it clear. Some Law firms in Bangkok asks crazy prices for ONE Will --) 25,000 baht and up. We can do exactly the same much cheaper, anywhere in Thailand. Like 2 Wills and a usufruct for about 15,000 baht, Thai and English, instructions for registration, etc. If you want info, let me know.

i lived from 2005 to 2022 in Korat. For me, the nicest area is Nong Phai Lom (near the lake) but it is quite expensive now. Another place is Pradok (not sure I write it correctly) famous for Kanom Jeen. it depends what you want, your budget and you are still young at 34. Visit several places that I call villages or moo ban, with projects. The floods in Korat are almost controlled. Around 2011 there was a big one. After that, near Saveone was a problem after the 80th year stadium for the king’s birthday was built but they worked on that park last year. Avoid Jamjuree in Hua Thale. Actually Hua Thale has more floods than other places. Behind the Mall was flooded few years ago. But now, near Suranaree 2, there are many projects. If you have 8 million or more, near Venice Park is nice because you are near many restaurants like far boy tavern, some Japanese, the Mayfair market. You are also near the Mall and ina good location. korat is not a bad city. Very similar to the 4 big in Isaan, Ubon, udon, KK and Korat. But there is a non official rules that say you should live at least 2 hours or scooter from the family to avoid problems. i always followed that rules except once, and yes, it made a mess!!!!! 17 years in Korat….I think I know the city a little. I prefer mountain near Wang Nam Khio but land is not cheap… learn “Meang Ying Kla, Pha Maa dee, Mii Korat, Prasat Hin, Din Dan .kwien” and all Korat people will love you. It is the slogan. Translated it means the city of the brave lady (yamo), the nice silk, the noodles of Korat, Phimai temples and the soil of Dan Kwian (for pottery). another in Korat language is “Korat Baan (h)Eng”. Not sure if you pronounce the H. It means Korat is my home, or my house. That’s what Korat people say. Enjoy Smaz Bistro, Run Juan bar, Space Bar, Some .might Say draft beer, 8 bistro, Fat Boy Tavern, Rong Lao Mittraphab (the best bar at the moment) the Thao Suranaree festival from March to 23….I think 23 is her birthday. I love thé BBQ festival in November. Have lunch at Maze Kitchen, dinner at Ton Sabiang, pizza at .fat Boy tavern, the grill room on the 20th floor of Kantary hôtel and you will see that Korat is not Phuket, but you can have a good life…and cheaper than Phuket.

This, I agree. Better not set up a company for properties but some decide to do it. Do you know prostitution is also illegal in Thailand? You can have Thai partners into your company and setup a Thai company without nominees and projections with majority of votes. Phuket, Samui, Pattaya are always more tricky places, more corruption.

This lawyersforexpatthailamd.com is a joke. I am 99.9% sure that he never been a lawyer. He might have his wife as a lawyer and I know my ex assistant who is a Thai lawyer works with him. Why is this a joke? Can a foreigner own a villa in Thailand? Answer is YES. because you can make superficies agreement and you will own the top of the land, meaning the building which is not restricted only to Thai.I am not talking about land, but the villa, yes. Second argument, if a person invest 40 million baht under certain condition by a decree, a foreigner can own 1 rai of land. Third, he does not talk about the rights of Sap Ing Sith, which is limited to 30 years (I do see how to make an addendum and guarantee 60 years) which is limited, yes, but you fully own your property. I wrote an article on it here : https://thailawonline.com/sap-ing-sith-thailand/ Then he is right about one thing : you can not use an indirect way to own something indirectly, like with a company, that you can not directly, But this guy forgot to talk about the MOST important thing: it is not that you own 49% max of the shares, is that you own majority of the votes and you control the company, you had other agreements, like the shareholders borrow your money to buy their parts of shares, and you sign powers of attorney and copies of ID with additional loan agreements. That is perfectly legal to own majority of the votes in a Thai limited company and perfectly legal to loan money to a shareholders. I actually sign other agreements with shareholders but this “lawyer for expats” in Thailand, who might have started to do legal service in Khon Kaen a year or two ago, I do not know, does not give you one case, not one case where a foreigner lost a property to the government claiming that nominees were used. I am not promoting nominees, I am telling you that some Thai structures of company can protect you and he building itself, can be property of a foreigner with limitations for marital property is the foreigner is married. Really, you can read anything on forums, about ufos, about Elvis is still alive, and that foreigners can not own a building? Does he also forget about the BOI that can grant ownership of land? What about if the kind gives land to a foreigner? I have seen that one time only. And what about article 86 to 93 of the land code if my memory is right where a foreigner can inherit a property but must ask the permission to keep it (and in reality they never give it) but you can sell the property and keep all proceeds of the sale. So by many ways, you can own a villa: 1. the villa and not the land. 2. The villa with superficies on the land but not the land. 3. by rights of Sap Ing Sith since 2019 but limited to 30 years. 4.,by inheritance but they will refuse you to keep it so you must sell in a delay of 6 months to 1 yeae 5 and when he talks about companies, he forgets the most important part, having a majority of votes by creating what is called preferred shares. And there are 2 ways to make it. I prefer when the foreigners have normal shares, like 1 share = 1 vote and Thais have preferred shares, but 10 shares for 1 vote. And with contracts, you do, really, own majority of shares into the company, can transfer your shares to your heirs, and sign other agreements to protect your even more.. Yes, I worked with Thai lawyers form 17 years now, first Ike in 2006 and I believe I know what I am talking about.

There are two ways to divorce in Thailand: a) Mutual consent. You talk to her and if she agrees, you both go to amphur. I recommend a divorce agreement in Thai and English but you decide. b) If she does NOT agree to divorce, you must go to court. It takes about 6 months and you must have a ground. If you have a witness with you and can show by video and pictures that she REALY drinks a lot, you might get a divorce under this clause: Section 1516 (6) one spouse has failed to give proper maintenance and support to the other, or committed acts seriously adverse to the relationship of husband and wife to such an extent that the other has been in excessive trouble where the condition, position and cohabitation as husband and wife are taking into consideration, the latter may enter a claim for divorce; But we need strong proof to show that you can't continue anymore. The judges will check if you have children together and if not, what is common property. But if you do not wish any property, you can give it all to her. But as a NEGOTIATION TOOL to make her SIGN, I would tell her that "you will divorce in Court and ask 50% of the property, unless she agrees to divorce at the amphur and if so, you will ask NOTHING and give her the house. " After 16 years of divorcing expats in Thailand, if you give her money each month, she might refuse. So stop giving her money and you will see that soon, she might accept. You can also pack your things and go ANYWHERE in Thailand, if you can do an extension based on retirement it would be great, DO NOT SEND ANY MONEY TO HER, DO NOT COME BACK TO LEAVE WITH HER, and divorce her 3 years later based on 3 years of separation. Sending her money is like not being completely separated. Many couples use this section to divorce and there are more and more supreme court decisions on it. Right now, the judges are quite open about divorce if the couples really cannot live together. It is not like 10 years ago when they really follow the books and it was more difficult. They are doing the same as western countries but they still have a divorce with "fault" when most western countries is a "no fault divorce". So as long as you are married, do not get caught with a girlfriend as she can sue you for that, with damages, and also the girlfriend. I would never stay with someone that does not give me happiness and some kind of joy. Life is too short. Sebastien.

I personally wrote that article 15 years ago when nobody was doing usufruct. I believe the admin will let me put a link to the updated version that I made here: http://thailawonline.com/usufruct-agreements-thailand/ If not, dear admins, DELETE all this topics because it is under my copyrights. Thanks. Sebastien H. Brousseau.

Sorry to disagree, 1) Game changer is a bait click in the the article. But it is a new law for sure. 2) during COVID, not much happened with planes stopped, etc. 3) do you know about permanent residency? I have it. I do not do visa, i do not do TM30, i don’t do. 90 days report. Permanent residency is fantastic, it does exist and not many people apply or get it. The year I got it we were 252 people I think. In the whole Thailand. 3 Canadians….does not means because something is rarely used that it is not useful. Yes, they talk about a lease of 50 years for residential use for years but I do think this option has some use. I see it between unmarried couples, with a foreigner maybe over 60, to guarantee him 30 years of people. The lease would have probably more taxes, I have seen leases cancelled, etc. Did I say it was perfect? No? But I just think people should measure it vs a Usufruct, superficies, leases, mortgage and other rights. The info on internet about it is limited. Usufruct is a real right and I do think it is very strong. (Same as I said in 2008) if the contract that makes it is also strong. I add clauses like the usufructuary can keep possession of Chanotte during his rights, that the owner can’t make any encumbrances and I also add a MOU on top when I do Usufruct. i see some potential for Sap Ing Sith. Leasehold for me is a personal right. I come from civil law background. But some Thai lawyers see it as real right when registered. i like to add a declaration of intention to renew the lease under 168 of civil code to help for renewal of the second. 30 years but never seen applied yet. I started Thai law in. 2006 only…. Maybe 12 years from now! i saw fake chanotte, and anything you can’t imagine since 2006.

This is understand it would be difficult. But yes, I personally got a mortgage as a foreigner from a bank but with my Thai wife around 2011. I was the first at that branch. So it is possible but hard, would need .a Thai guarantor and I see it practically impossible as the length is 30 years max….. but I like the “resale” option. I saw couple divorcing with contracts and the Thai partner cutting the water, making life impossible, getting Kaifak (sales with right of redemption) over a Usufruct (I saw it only twice)..

This is not how I understand it. You can sell your rights that you have, same as property, Usufruct, you can sublease but over 3 years, you need to register is a you need authorization of the owner. it is new for me, been traveling for a while after COVID and did not pay attention during COVID. But I like this “opportunity” for some cases.

I researched that topic, trade crypto with AI on bots and Thailand is not the place. Isle of Man Gibraltar Dubai If you are talking about large amounts and saving taxes, USA is bad, Canada is getting there. HK is opening and Singapore is pretty good. It needs regulations and USA will drop them like nuclear bombs. Europe is doing it now.

First, it is not well known and the first that I know registered in Isaan was last week. I remember to register some of the first usufructs in MANY provinces and districts when the land department didn't know what to do. Second, it was created in 2019m which is 4 years but with COVID, we lost 2 years with nothing happening more or less. Complicated? Here my small understanding and I might be wrong: The Sap-Ing-Sith (SIS) is a new type of property right in Thailand that was created by the Sap-Ing-Sith Act B.E. 2562 (2019). The SIS gives its holder the right to use an immovable property for a specified period of time, up to 30 years. The SIS can be registered on land with a valid Chanote (land title deed), buildings placed on land plots held under a valid Chanote and condominium units as defined in the Condominium Act. The SIS holder has the right to use the property for any lawful purpose, including residential, commercial, or industrial use. The SIS holder also has the right to sub-lease the property, mortgage it, or use it as security for a loan. However, the SIS holder does not have the right to sell the property or to transfer the SIS to another person. The SIS holder is responsible for paying taxes and other charges on the property, and is also liable for any damage to the property. The SIS holder must return the property to the owner in good condition at the end of the SIS period, unless otherwise agreed. The SIS is a new and innovative property right that offers a number of advantages over traditional leasehold arrangements. The SIS gives its holder greater rights and flexibility, and can be a more attractive option for investors and businesses. Here are some of the key differences between the SIS and a traditional leasehold: The SIS is a registered property right, while a leasehold is not. This means that the SIS is more secure and can be used as collateral for loans. The SIS can be for a longer period of time than a leasehold. The maximum period for a leasehold is 30 years, while the maximum period for a SIS is 99 years. The SIS holder has more rights than a leasehold tenant. The SIS holder can sub-lease the property, mortgage it, or use it as security for a loan. A leasehold tenant cannot do any of these things without the landlord's permission. Overall, the SIS is a more attractive option for investors and businesses than a traditional leasehold. The SIS offers greater rights, flexibility, and security, and can be used as collateral for loans. Is this complicated? It is like a lease, but you can sell it, transfer it, you are the owner for 30 years, you can even mortgage it (but I doubt Thai banks will allow it) and solved some problems of a lease or usufruct, for a registration of 20,000 baht. I do think it has value and i do not think it is complex. i posted for people to know, same as I posted about usufruct in 2008. Same as I posted for Thai PINK ID many years ago when people did not know how to do it, or I explain my own permanent residency adventure WHICH IS COMPLEX. But not that. It seems easier than a lease with some real benefits, especially for anyone over 60 years old I think. Prove me wrong, tell me it why it is bad. Why it is complex. I used to make lease with an option to renew and a declaration of intention to renew which has a retroactive effect (168 TCCC) with an addendum not to show the land department for additional rights that we didnlt want the authorities to know but we believe are legal. SO A LEASE, a PROPER one, is VERY DIFFICULT and complex. A usufruct is simple, but not transmissible. Cheap and could be valid for lifetime. I see a value to sublease or sell rights with SIS. Personal opinion of someone who worked with Thai lawyers and Thai properties for 16 years. But anyone can disagree....

I was not really contacted, no retainer, lots of free information given… i guess all lawyers are not the same. But some clients can dream that people work for free. I just did!

This is interesting for ALL FOREIGNERS in Thailand. There is a new way to own a property in Thailand for foreigners and I learned that it was registered in Isaan last week for the first time. Let me introduce you to “Sap-Ing-Sith” The best English article is here: https://franklegaltax.com/sap-ing-sith-thailands-new-property-right-game-changer/ Not sure if I can post links but admins, this is SUPER IMPORTANT to know. Only few people posted about it in English. I believe this would be very good for a foreigner that it not married to a Thai, but might have a Thai partner. He makes a loan to his partner, his partner buys the property and the foreigner register this right for 20,000 baht at the land department. I learned that amount using searches with AI. Then, if the couple breaks, he can sell his balance of his rights, or transfer to a third party, or even get a mortgage but I am not sure banks will agree to that quickly. For more info in Thai : http://web.krisdika.go.th/pdfPage.jsp?type=act&actCode=13787 That is an official link and the Supreme Court I think. I was one of the first foreign lawyers talking about Usufruct in 2008 in an article called “everything you want to know about Usufruct in Thailand”. It was posted here, on Thaivisa. This is a new way, different from leases, setting up a company, register a Usufruct or superficies, huge potential. Sebastien. #Thailaw #Propertyrights #ownershipinThailand

i lived 18 years in Isaan, got married, was working, bought a property with my ex-wife, divorced, started other businesses…. isaan is a very nice part of Thailand, especially if you speak Thai. i learned it, worked with Thai lawyers for 15 years, I thought my life was fantastic until I met my ex girlfriend!!!! ps: forgot to say I was 35 when I arrived.

There are several options for you. 1) Lease 2) Usufruct, for lifetime 3) setting up a company 4) making a mortgage but what people do not write above is: a) what kind of title deed is the land, On some title deeds, you can not register a lease, a usufruct, a mortgage or put it under a company. b) it is better to add contracts and not just make one. Example, a Usufruct could guarantee you to use the land and house for lifetime, but better to add a MOU to explain what would arrive in case of separation, divorce, etc. Into the usufruct, you need strong clauses that she can’t sell, mortgage, transfer, etc. Without your authorization and also that you can keep the title deed into your possession. The land department has some forms of Usufruct but they never have these clauses. So use a lawyer with experience in real estate that can explain you all of that as you might spend a lot of money and contracts or legal advice is not very expensive. c) you might want the full package and add Last Wills into your documents in case something happens…. You can send me a pm if you wish.

I believe you found one, ????

There is an old extradition treaty between Russian and Thailand. But you are looking for the new one, that relates to the war in Ukraine and people coming to Thailand. https://www.news360.es/australia/2023/03/15/thailand-approves-extradition-treaty-with-russia/ the official version before becoming law is always published in the official gestate of Thailand. that is the process : https://www.krisdika.go.th/web/office-of-the-council-of-state/thai-legislative-process And the royal Thai gazette is here: https://ratchakitcha.soc.go.th Sebastien.

Facebook market place, Airbnb, and I like propertyhub.in.th

And he can hold shares if 12 years old or older, or younger if the company is already setup. so founders must be 12 yo and more. shareholders can be younger. The Thai Civil and Commercial Code (TCCC) sets out the minimum qualifications for directors as follows: ■ A director must be a natural person who is at least 20 years old; ■ A director must not be incompetent; and ■ A director must not be an undischarged bankrupt.

We setup hundreds of companies in .Thailand since 2006. It is not difficult. You can always find a title like managin director for foreign marketing or another and the labour department will accept. There are rules for capital required, number of Thai employees, unless you qualify for a smart visa, which I do not think you do. It is more for digital nomads. You can send me an email and I will answer in private. Thanks, Sebastien.

Yes. Long time no see Lopburi3…. I was not on forum for years, Sebastien.