wandasloan

@Wandasloan, Simple 1...There is nothing personal in my posts. Your lack of knowledge and facts on the subject is simply

Khun Mackie, you are a HOOT! Nothing personal, heh.

Oh and it has airforce provided toilet buses. As I said, I cannot explain the significance, either you understand or your don't.

Yes!

I was going to post something and decided I'd better erase it. But anyway, I agree 200%.

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So now Suthep reveals a little more of his reform plans - eliminate freedom of speech, unless it's his speech. Eliminate news reporting unless it's his news. Thailand has been there before just following the 2006 military coup; Suthep is just following the military road map on how to overthrow democracy.

Yes, but he is quite clearly doing it on his own this time.

Army did 2 things in Bangkok today.

1. Showed Reds they are around and to keep their rally peaceful.

2. Drove past Sutheps shambles on Paholyothin and demostrated that they are having no involvement with him or his ilk. Here we are Mr Suthep and Sonhi... Hello boys... and here we go.... Bye, nothing doing boys, enjoy your exile.

Disgraceful as the Courts, Media and PDRC have been, at least they have opened the eyes of the few people outside of thailand that ever believed this mob was anything other than a grab for power by some of the oldies.

You can say that again, let me help you, 555.

One small correction: The red shirts are on the very, very edge of remote eastern Bangkok (Thon Buri) and there's no army to be seen. I was just on the phone to a friend who's there.

For those who are interested, and any thinking person should be, maybe ESPECIALLY the Kamnan's keyboard-warrior supporters who choose to take no active outdoors part, here's the very easy, low-bandwidth live link to the reds' rally.

It's a star-studded Saturday, as they say. Even Tida had to go on at 7:30 to make way for the REALLY big stars who usually get going around 9 or later at these things.

http://www.uddtoday.net/

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So not only posting old photos, but also posting images from the Bangkok Post. You haven't learned forum rules on any count have you. Take your vulgar language back to the bar eh!

His (alleged) silliness has nothing to do with the fact you are entirely, completely 101% totally wrong. All newspapers have similar photos from the jointly owned drone-cam. Here is the link to many photos by foreign agencies, with time and date this afternoon/early evening. TODAY!.

http://goo.gl/65kJtU

Not to mention that Mr bears is completely correct, and didn't post any image from the Bangkok Post. Neither did I. But I *did* post two photos that might appear in the Bangkok Post, which is one of many joint owners of the drone that took them. Here's another for your enjoyment. Taken at 5:28pm Thailand time. Today.

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I drove down the road yesterday. The service roads were still open, then, around noon. There were more toilets this time. As The Voice says in Field of Dreams: "Build it and they will come."

And they did. The Thai newsdrone at 5:30pm, as the rally was getting ready for the scheduled 6pm start:

Different view, about an hour later, 6:27pm. The speaker's stage is bottom right. I have about 15 dronecam pics, but I can't find one that actually shows the far end of the crowd, it's so far distant.

"The RAF said it had a "zero-tolerance policy" on mistreatment of dead enemies"

And rightly so however there is NO sign of any mistreatment of the dead in those pictures.. <deleted> do those @sshats expect, that the troops who survived an attack like that should be sad ? Ashamed ?

Yes, yes and then no, no. There is no mistreatment of anyone or anything involved.

I wouldn't normally comment on an excellent and thorough and right-headed post like yours, but I also want to have the opportunity to say thank you, and please stay safe. I have some small idea of what you go through, and a very large appreciation for your doing it, especially since, just like the troops, so many choose not to.

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Wandasloan,

I am not sure how to read your post, maybe it is just me being stupid ( it happens a lot!) However, I was agreeing with a previous post that it is wrong to blame the soldier, marine or RAF recruit, and that the pc mob are taking over. the lunatics are in charge of the asylum! If I misread your post, I apologise, but I for one am sick of these people criticising the armed forces for fear of upsetting a bunch of brain washed neanderthals.

We agree. What I meant in the specific reply to you was that it was not EVEN in the propaganda category, the referenced photo, but the troop's personal photo. If the brass and bigwigs cannot just congratulate this successful troop, then their best course would be to shut it.

To reiterate. It is wrong to blame the soldier or even to pick out the soldier. I am sick and tired of this TYPE of person at the top criticising the very armed forces they have sent to work, and then won't give them an ounce of support. It's as if there are two armed forces, the one willing to defend the nation and others, and the one at the top, worried that their orderly made the correct reservations at the officers' clubs. It would be best not to start on the politicians involved, I think.

I'm sure we are in agreement here. Maybe I am a little more hard-core and outraged than you, mostly because of personal circumstances and my family.

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Actually I concur with your analysis, you've made incorrect assumptions regards my post. Maybe my error in articulation...

I'm supposed to be able to read. I'll accept the blame.

Well, maybe most of it, okay?. 5555

Explanation: I figured you knew what you were talking about BUT I also thought you were cutting Khun mackie too much slack and granting him points which aren't true. But thanks for the follow-up to clear it up.

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THE INVOLVEMENT OF SALAFISM/WAHHABISM IN THE SUPPORT AND SUPPLY OF ARMS TO REBEL GROUPS AROUND THE WORLD

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/join/2013/457137/EXPO-AFET_ET(2013)457137_EN.pdf

Even the word "Thailand" does not appear in this report. Indonesia and the Philippines do. I already said why. Now what is your take on why Thailand is not even mentioned in this report, in any manner?

My apologies if this seems just to be a reply in kind to your nonsensical personal attack, but you didn't read or else you didn't comprehend a word I wrote. Here's what I wrote, in shorter words:

Islam is not an issue in the insurgency in the South. It's a non-starter. There is no outside aid to the southern Thai Muslims, because the southern Thai Muslims are not Islamist or anything of that kind. At all.

YOU said the southern Thais have to speak out against the insurgents. *I* said they do so, very frequently. And of course the gangs have their supporters just like every insurgency in the world. But the claim that the people of the deep South are silent in the face of brutality, intimidation, injustice, targeted and accidental killings and especially sheer terrorism is not just false, it's defamatory and a libel.

I don't understand why alleged "men" think childish personal attacks win arguments. You sound like a metro libertarian snapping shut his briefcase in alleged triumph, not like a man at all. It doesn't matter how young I seem to be, or how old. The question is whether the Wahhabi give aid/money/comfort/succour to the southern Thai insurgents/gangs and the answer to that question is a huge, loud "NO".

In fact, as YOUR report details clearly, the Wahhabi largesse flows into the Philippines and Indonesia. YOUR report details clearly it does NOT flow into Thailand (or Malaysia, Burma, Laos or Cambodia to name all border regions Wahhabi aid does not flow to insurgencies. That's not me, that is you saying that, in the report you provided. You're now arguing with yourself and your sources.

That is in addition to the fact that Saudis provide NOTHING to Thailand except visas for the Haaj and regular grief over the multiple disagreements caused by Thailand in the mid-1990s.

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I DO believe they should let the press do its work, no matter what. There are a couple of things to consider though:

CH7 was officially launched on 27 November 1967 after being acquired by Royal Thai Army.

CH7 is a sister channel of TV5. Its headquarters at Mo Chit, Chatuchak.

Channel 3- is a Thai state-owned public broadcaster.

Modernine TV (Thai: โมเดิร์นไนน์) is a state-owned free-to-air television network in Thailand, which is owned and operated by MCOT, a government agency.

NBTTV, Channel 11 also known as NBT is a television station in Thailand owned and operated by the National Broadcasting Services of Thailand (NBT), a division of the Thai Government.

You could hardly expect Goebbels to inform the public without taking sides.

Channels 7, 3 and 9 (your ordering) actually operate independently, under leases from the actual owners - the army, the government and a government corporation in your ordering.

Channel 5 is operated *by* the army (not the military; the army) and Channel 11 belongs to whatever government is in power. There are at least two dozen other TV broadcasters with significant but much smaller audiences, most of which also have government or military licences but are equally independent to all stations except Channels 5 and 11. You missed ThaiPBS for example, which is quite influential right now..

"Independent" for broadcasters in Thailand is "independent" as in almost all countries except America, the Philippines and (in most cases, not all) Britain. Which is to say the government "keeps an eye" on what is going on at these very influential outlets, and in Thailand, the army also "keeps an eye" on Channel 7. But the government/military does not directly run any stations except the two, and is not (currently) ham-fisted about controlling output, which is EXTREMELY diverse across the broadcast bands.

Even today, the only censorship is self-censorship. I happen to consider that much worse than straight censorship, but my point is there are no censors to watch over the broadcasts of any TV stations, which actually have, even in this crisis (or especially in this crisis) much more freedom to broadcast than much of the world.

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I use the world "insurgency" academically, and yes, it is an insurgency by definition. But insurgencies are not necessarily violent. I use this word IAW with Merriam Webster, not "armed" insurgency.

Check "humility". Good grief. I've always thought that bringing a dictionary to an argument is pretty much like mentioning how it was with the Nazis. You're kind of disqualified from that point. You really need a dictionary?

But, well, no complaint, but why ditch the OED so beloved in these parts?

Well that's a change, and maybe you did check "humility" in that book. Now check "weasely". That's not what you said "yesterday", as you well know. "Yesterday" you most certainly did (claim to) know all about the TJA and me, both. But I'll take the above in the spirit I think you're offering it.

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Angry/disgruntled/offended Muslims, oh what a surprise...

I'm almost certain the RAF is not a Muslim organisation. Although with Britain this century, one must check frequently to be certain. Please focus on who the villains are in this one, particular incident.

Speaking of road blocks along hwy 2, where are the Red Shirts? I thought they were suppose to have a demonstration in BKK today. It is now after 10AM and no sign of a red rally. Have the police stopped them at the road blocks as Ginjag suggest? Just wondering.

Are you at the Buddhamonthon area then? Because that is where the rally *IS* including preparations at 10am. It was it the newspapers and so on.

Why would the police (or army) stop Thai citizens going about their legal life? It wouldn't just be illegal. In the current situation it would be also dangerous for the security forces doing it, and it would be very inflammatory. Anyone who advises that right now is a flat fool or a dangerous inciter to violence.

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Well... that day has finally come.

One wonders if immigration, in their usual farsightedness, has increased the capacity of neighbouring Thai consulates to deal with the huge influx of proper visa-seekers. Of course, each consulate has the autonomy to refuse to issue visas if the crowds prove too inconvenient for them. Expect chaos on your next visa run.

But don't blame immigration. That department has no power to give visas and no one stationed in consulates. Only the foreign ministry can give visas - and it cannot extend them. As you say, the foreign ministry can not only refuse visas for any reason, or no reason, it also has no connection with immigration.

It's pretty much the same in all countries.

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It's tragic that we have to read such sad news practically on an almost daily basis. The violence of teen gangs and other lowlifes in this country has taken on unprecedented proportions.

In addition to to the fact that a lot of Thai people are extremely short-tempered and can go off like a lose cannon in the blink of an eye, more citizens than we care to admit seem to have stashed away one or several illegal guns - and do not hesitate to use them at any inappropriate "opportunity".

It's about time all these myriads of guidebooks out there lyrically waxing on about the mild manners and gentle attitudes of the locals would finally care to update their forthcoming editions and let unsuspecting travelers know what's really ins store for them if they're not careful enough - or are at the wrong place at the wrong time, as this unfortunate actress appears to have been.

Good post,agree when Thai's blow they really do,and often some one ends up dead,like this poor lass.

It's very much a shame for Thailand. This young woman, and her surviving family, deserved none of it.

On the other hand, though, it is fortunate for all of us here at the Thai Visa World Behaviour Headquarters to have a Bad Example to hold up for the rest of the world, which now knows how fortunate it is not to have armed gangs, problem with high tempers, gang violence, innocent people shot. If only all the rest of the world would realise how lucky they are compared with those of us living in this hellhole of short-tempered armed gangs.

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When the PTP set the example that the Right Honorable Ahbisit is guilty of murder then this is by no means a stretch of an accusation.

Well... there is the missing dead bodies from the 2014 murder scene. They were present in 2010 you'll admit?

Without reference to whether Abhisit *is* a murderer, which the PTP cannot decide no matter how highly you yourself might think of their legal power, it seems a rather elastic comparison that a murder case with 90 dead bodies is similar to a murder case with every single body accounted for and still living.

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Are Thai citizens authorised to engage in pursuits and break road rules to make a citizens arrest? Definitely are not where I come from and will be prosecuted if they did.

They mugger got hit with Karma and no argument from me on that one.

I'm not clear how you know the car driver broke the law. Where you come from and in Thailand, both, "well, your honour, common sense..." is not admissible evidence. "I saw him and he looked like he was going fast" is equally unhelpful. Seems more like you want this man persecuted rather than prosecuted.

HE says he was following the thief, which is most certainly 100% legal, and the darn thief made a quick turn and he had an accident trying to avoid him. Sounds like no one one is going to crack that version of the story "beyond a shadow of a doubt". I think the car driver got himself a really good story to tell the police and he's sticking to it. Not that there will be any outcry to persecute him except here anyway. But my point is he has a terrific story of innocence, and I don't see how you figure you've broken that story to get him into prison.

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8 mths just to begin investigation? BIB are seriously useless.

A very good friend of mine was killed in a California remand lockup by ... well, she was killed. The facts were printed in the local and national press, and at some length. In three days, it will be the sixth anniversary of her death. There has been no investigation and of course no legal action whatsoever against those fully responsible and actually named in the press. No investigation at all. The chances there will be one are less than if I rubbed a lamp to call forth the investigation genie.

I suppose British people get favoured treatment in such a case? But life is hardly fair, and that's a fact.

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Its interesting that the US State Dept 2013 Country Reports on Terrorism asserts the deep South conflict there are no proven links with other terror organisations outside of Thailand, nor proven links for funding by Wahhabi fundamentalists.

More often than not Sunni extremist ideology is driven by sectarianism, I suggest has minimal or no relevance to the conflict in the deep South. Sunni separatists/insurgents have agreed to a road map to peace in the Philippines after 30+ years of conflict, Aceh that is primarily Sunni also has negotiated a peace settlement via autonomy

What reliable info do you have that counters the US State Dept advisory regarding the deep South?

Good question, but wrong assumption most of the way through. You are saying (or granting to Khun mackie) that the conflict in the South is driven by, or partly motivated by religious extremism. And actually, THAT is what everyone including the US State Department finds no proof of. The gangs and groups in the South happen to be Muslims. They don't use that in their statements or propaganda. They have no aim to set up an Islamic state. They do not recruit by use of the religion. They are an ethnic group whose territory was carved off and subsumed by Thailand (Siam as they insist), and THAT is what they don't like.

At no time, in no way, have any of these groups ever used religion as complaint or justification. Every Pulo/BRN/etc official says there is no problem with practice or freedom of religion, but they don't want Siamese occupation.

The US and many others have it backwards.

The lack of religious motivation in the entire "struggle" of these separatists is WHY there is no indication of outside ties or help.

There is no more help from, say, Jemaah Islamiya or al-Qaeda for the gangs in southern Thailand than there is help from these groups for the PDRC of Mr Suthep - and for exactly the same reason. Religion and religious freedom is not an issue. The euphemistic "problem" in the South is ethnic and racial and historical, and does not touch on the religion in any important manner.

Tiny example. When the field commander Hambali of Jemaah Islamiyah went on the run in 2003 because Indonesia finally got serious about anti-terrorism, he fled to Thailand to try to find shelter and hide out. There was zero welcome for that Islamist extremist in the deep South. (Or anywhere else. Not only did Muslims throughout ALL of Thailand shun him, Ayutthaya Muslims turned him in when he turned up and tried to pray at their mosque. That is why he's in Guantanamo.)

The Philippines but particularly Aceh had far different problems than are present in Thailand's South. It may be that some kind of autonomy will *also* stop the violence in Thailand, but it isn't because the Thai South wants an Islamic territory/state of the Aceh variety.

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Yet, no one has ever been disciplined for those deaths....

... through a government that overthrew Thaksin for his conduct, and another government that was/is bitterly opposed to Thaksin in all ways. And of course yet another government that was pro-Thaksin. Four governments, two of them opposed to Thaksin, one of whom ousted the Thaksin government at gunpoint. No discipline. It's not a problem, it's shameful. You would think there was some kind of conspiracy at some sort of high level somewhere to protect the power and the glory of serving the deep South, and never rock the power boat.

[snip] [snip] etc...etc...

Nothing will ever change unless the local population comes out in the open and denounces extremists instead of helping them out. Furthermore, someone must finance all those insurgents in the deep south. Nothing happens without the money. There is considerable evidence pointing out to Saudi Arabia and Wahabbists being involved in financing terrorists not only in Thailand but also in Indonesia and Malaysia.

Oh my. I guess you don't follow news of the South. What you say doesn't happen, in fact, happens. Frequently. Often. I don't have time to do chapter and verse on this, but here is the first photo I found on my own personal computer from a couple or three months ago. It is in Narathiwat, which is in the deep South. The banner says "We condemn groups who use violence."

Saudi Arabia stopped funding EVERYTHING in Thailand years ago, and so did Libya before that. If you think this southern "problem" is because of outsiders, you are sadly, badly, madly mistaken. (Except that, obviously, some Malaysian citizens are involved.)

If you are so concerned about this (and I wish everyone was), please do basic research on it so you come across as reasonably informed.

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Of course the Thais are entitled to their own rules, but the methods of enforcement really aren't the ticket at times. Why would the authorities want to unnecessarily piss off other ASEAN citizens like this?

Without disagreeing with you in any manner, it is a parallel truth that Vietnamese under a quite vicious and sometimes deadly Vietnamese mafia have taken hold in the "illegal immigrant community" up and down Thailand, but particularly in Bangkok. This crude Aranyaprathet border rule is an offensive way to try to sort out tourists from Robin Hoods, as the Thais call them.

There is both method and madness to be sure, but there also is an underlying reason.

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Clearly, you lost the account because who would do business with a man that doesn't even have a key to his own office?

A very good point. Pay attention OP, get a key, unless the door can't be unlocked from the inside...555.

I suppose somewhere there is such a door, but any half-decent half-drunk barely attentive boss/manager, even a man, would realise the problem if staff LIKE HIMSELF cannot get out if there is a fire, earthquake, etc. The word I would use for a boss unable to get out of his own building is "justice".

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