oldcpu

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I was going to bring up this very issue.  If the visa is so attractive, and sure to make all holders "content" then why didn't a lot, lot more people jump on it????  Serious question. 

You would have to bring that up with the BoI.

Perhaps they were hoping to attract a level of wealth to Thailand, that was not as interested as BoI hoped

Again - I have yet to meet one person, with the LTR who is disappointed.  ie. for each and everyone who obtained the LTR visa ,the LTR visa IS what it was cracked up to be.

The one's complaining are pretty much those who did not try, or tried and did not get the visa. 

It may be a 'sad' truth, but that is the truth.

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

That's the point though, isn't it. 

 

Many didn't get the LTR because the visa didn't suit them, therefore, they can not be disappoint with it. 

 

What's that say about the visa? 

It says those who obtained the video are very happy with it.

43 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

I don't think so.

 

How many LTR visa holders have you met who are disappointed with their visa?

To clarify - BoI may be discontent they did not achieve the statistics they wanted - but those who qualified and obtained the visa read to be reasonably content with the Visa.

13 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Everything. 

I don't think so.

How many LTR visa holders have you met who are disappointed with their visa?

2 hours ago, puck2 said:

There is a DTA (double Tay Agreement) between Thailand and Germany. If you want to read it:

https://doppelbesteuerung.eu/normen-dba/thailand/

 

In general: normal (public) Rents and pensions are here in TH tax free.

Thanks.

I did previously dig through the Thai-German DTA and quoted pension relevant sections out of the DTA in my post earlier. As near as I can determine some German sourced pensions are taxable in neither country.  But I am not certain about this.

4 hours ago, Upnotover said:

My Wise card is most certainly a VISA card.  It works like any other card.  And works in an ATM with the same 220 baht fee as any other foreign card.

I believe you will find it is a Visa Debit card.  Not a Visa credit card.  There is a difference.

I know in Northern Ireland, when I went to rent a car, and passed my Wise Debit card, it was immediately passed back to me, with the comment, this is a DEBIT card , and a loud insistence (from a tired rental car company agent) that I needed to pass them a credit card.

1 hour ago, roberterik said:

Question about a topic I did not find in all contributions.

I pay all tax on my pensions in the Nethelands, my home country.

Tax office want to see my documents about paid tax in English. 

Tax office even talks about verified documents.

Dutch tax office only provide Dutch language tax bill, and no proof of payments.

Embassy does not verify any tax document, as far as I found out.

 

You can find the double tax agreements here : 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/766.html

The Thai-Netherlands one has been around since 1976.  The DTAs tend to be a bit confusing, as they say one thing, and the add qualifications using the words "not with standing".

Article-18 of the Thai-Netherlands DTA notes :

Quote

 

Article-18

1.  Subject to provisions of paragraph 2 of this Article (18) and para-1 of Article-19, pensions and other similar remunderation paid in consideration of past employment to a resident of one the States (ie Thailand) and any annuity paid to such a resident (ie of Thailand), shall be taxable only in that State (ie Thailand).

 

2.  However, such income may also be taxed in the other state (ie Netherlands) in as far as it is charged as such against profits derived in that other State (ie Netherlands) by an enterprise that other State (Netherlands) or by an enterprise having a permanent establishment therein.

 

and para-1 of article-19 states:

Quote

 

Article-19.  GOVERNMENTAL FUNCTIONS:
1. Remuneration, including penions, paid by, or out of funds created by, one of the States (Netherlands) or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to any individual in respect of services rendered to that State or subdivision thereof in the discharge of function of a government nature "may" be taxed in that State (Netherlands).

2. However, the provisions of Articles .... and 18 shall apply to remuneration or pensions in respect of services rendered in connection with any trade or business arried on by one of its States (Netherlands) or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof.

 

I am no tax advisor. I find such wording confusing.  My interpretation is

(a) if you have a Netherlands civil service or military pension, it "may" be taxed in the Netherlands, and Thailand may also tax it.  And

(b) if you have another (not civil service nor military pension) from a Netherlands company for work in the Netherlands, then it can ONLY be taxed in Thailand (and not in the Netherlands) - as long as you don't use it as some sort of deduction in Netherlands tax return.  And

(c) if  have another (not civil service nor military pension) from a Netherlands company for work outside of the Netherlands - then ... its fuzy to me, but I believe that means both Netherlands and Thailand may tax such.

Of course in the case of (b) (ie article-18(1)) above, Netherlands should not tax such.  But for Netherlands not to tax that pension, you need to tell the Netherlands your residence is Thailand.  Else they will want tax money from you obtain in the Netherlands.

Likely, dependent on your pensions, if you remit your pension income in the year of earnings into Thailand or anytime having earned after 1-Jan-2024, you will need to file both Thai and Netherlands tax returns, if you remitted income is above the threshold noted.  In cases where Netherlands has already taxed you, then you need to apply a tax credit to not pay twice.

I don't know the details. Typically the country of residency gets 1st dibs on one's pension in cases where both can tax - so you will need to sort the details there.

And reference any documents not in English or Thai, if they are needed by Revenue Thailand, you will need to have translated to English or Thai , possibly via an official translation service? < unsure > I don't know there if google translation is acceptable.

I may have that wrong - that DTA was much different from others I have looked at so I could have made an error - others please chime in and correct me if wrong. I am no tax advisor - so lets be clear on that.  I am only an interested bystander hoping to help through this legalize maze.

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Did you not see my post where I said it's "in the mail?"

 

I recall that joke.  When something never shows up and  one asks: where is it?  The answer usually is: Its in the mail. 

31 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The LTR is not everything it's cracked up to be. 

What is it cracked up to be?

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Thai Retirement Visa

If you’re over 50 years of age, the Retirement Visa Thailand gives you the chance to spend your golden years in Thailand with fewer hassles. Before acquiring it, you will need to apply for a Non-Immigrant O Visa before converting it to a Thai Retirement Visa, which will allow you to extend your visa up to a year. You can also renew it every year, allowing you to extend your stay indefinitely, as long as you continue to meet the requirements

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-visa/1-Year-Thailand-Visa.php

Siam legal?  < sigh  >

28 minutes ago, potless said:

One of the questions that caught my eye. "If foreign sourced income is remitted into a foreign currency account in Thailand, then at a later date transferred into a Baht account, is the exchange rate to be used for income calculation the TT rate on the initial transfer date, or the second transfer date?" 

 

The answer given was "It is calculated on the date it arrives in Thailand (the initial date it arrives in your account); the currency is irrelevant, it is the date the funds are remitted and received in Thailand"

 

I asked that question in December in Mike Listers main forum and the regular poster CHIANG MAI felt that it only became assessable when converted to Thai Baht. There is obviously a significant difference between the two scenarios. 

 

 

My view is the answer in Mike Lister's main forum and that of the regular poster Chiang Mai was suspect, and I prefer the answer provided on the official Thai Revenue Department tax help line.

But I am no tax expert.  I have no Government documentation sources to back up my view.  It would not surprise me if this boils down to the Revenue Department Ministerial interpretation.

On 1/30/2025 at 12:04 PM, Cameroni said:

So I followed the advice of the resident visa guru here and obtained a retirement visa. My initial euphoria was that everything was now sorted out. But is this really the case, what problems have you encountered with the retirement visa?

 

I understand it has to be renewed, you have to do 90 days reporting and you need permission to leave and re-enter. I am also concerned if the agency I used goes under or disappears how that will affect things.

 

Anyway, have you found any problems that surprised you with the retirement visa?

Interesting thread.

Of course this is Thailand. There are always surprises at some times, and no surprises at other times.  It would not be Thailand if that not the case.

IMHO you can always find an agent if you are willing to pay for an agent.  Problems might only come up if you decide to not go for an agent and then you need to learn for the first time how to do this yourself (potentially cheaper dependent on how your financial assets structured).

Many of us do not use an agent - and there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum - so IMHO keep checking and asking from time to time if there are things you do not understand.

23 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Was it TRD, or one obscure officer within TRD? Unless BOI and/or TRD release a formal clarification we will have to wait another two or three years before RD's decisions shed light on this issue.

 

In the meantime remit Y-1 income, early in year Y, so it is easy to prove you've done things by their book.

 

 

He stated he phoned the RD Tax department tax help line. 

He stated the chat lasted at least an hour, and that there were many occasions when the RD official on the phone, had to 'put the phone down' and consult with someone else in the RD to get an answer.

He also noted the chat was in Thai language (so presumably nothing lost in translation).

To me, that reads to be far more official than a local tax office, and more official than a youtube blog of a tax advisor looking for business who did not also adopt the same or superior approach.

It all boils down to - in part - who does one believe?

8 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

This is my problem, I've been to the tax office 4 times each time thay have said "you don't need to pay tax" 

Told them what I bring in 2 government pensions (according to Google both can only be taxed once,London Fire Brigade, UK State pension) I pay tax on them in the UK, tax office also agreed that thay can not be taxed here, 3rd pension is from Tesco 1,800 bht per month so not enough for tax to be paid.

 

There are at least 61 Thailand Double Tax Agreements (DTAs) with other countries ( I read another source that stated 64 DTAs).  I doubt the RD officials at your local tax office are familiar with all of these DTAs.

If you wish an accurate answer, and not an off the cuff < don't bother us > answer, you will IMHO likely need to show up with a Thai language copy of the Great Britain and Northern DTA with Thailand, and highlight the relevant paragraphs associated with your pensions.

Else I believe there is a high probability that they could make a mistake.  I emphasize high probability that they could make a mistake.

Of course, just IMHO.

1 hour ago, maddox41 said:

Since the arrival of mother Russia in Phuket its fast catching up to Pattaya with its crime, misbehaving tourists. 

Throw in the dodgy English and French expats the pissed Australians, the rude chinese tourists it's going to be a absolute disaster

 ...

You forgot to mention the Canadian mafia / gangsters extending their conflicts to Phuket ..  😅

4 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Of course! You're beginning to overthink this situation, as it is one of the non gray areas. Sadly, not more are such.

I agree in part -BUT I disagree with your 'overthink' characterisation. 

Rather I am trying to head off any misinformation - and show yet again another example of proof that such Canadian sourced pension is not only not taxable by Thailand for resident expats in Thailand - and FURTHER prove it is not to be used as part of a monetary assessment if a Thai tax return is required and also not included in a Thai tax form as income (if one needs to file such a return for other reasons).

11 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

But that [tax exemption] remains the case, even if the income must be remitted in a year posterior to the year of earning.

 

Honestly I have given thought to this quite a while ago, and speculated that the tax reform was on the books when the LTR was being implemented, remember it was launched in September 2022 just one year before the first "Remittance tax". Government departments can mull over reform for years, waiting for a political opportunity to implement it. It isn't always the clueless politician who is in the driving seat. So in this case RD 743 was only needed to "grandfather" the old taxation rules on remittance.

Well - as noted, user Guavaman asked on the Thai RD Help Line did LTR visa holders (ie for LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP), whose only income was remitted foreign income, did they need to file a Tax return?

Best that I understand was the RD told him NO. (ie for LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP).  If there was some caveat that it only applied for income earned in the current tax year, or did not apply for income earned in the current tax year, they would have clearly warned of that caveat.

Best that I understand from user Guavaman's post, the Thai RD applied no such caveat.

Again, I suspect the tax advisor companies did not bother to ask the Thai RD this very question.

4 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

Is this all now law or is all this just scaremongering?

Is what law?

As of Thailand RD Ministerial instructions Por.161/162, any assessable income earned from 1-January-2024 and then remitted to Thailand from 1-Jan-2024 onward in time is subject to possible Thai taxation and if the remitted assessable income is over a certain monetary threshold, a Thai Tax return is required.  Por.161/162 is not Thai law, but one would need to take the Thai RD to court if one wanted to openly challenge it.

Most of the debate on this forum, has been what defines the words "assessable" given not only the Thai tax code is relevant, but also the noted Thai RD Ministerial instructions Por.161/162 are relevant, and also Royal Decrees are relevant (such as RD-18 (which references DTA exempt income) and RD-743 (LTR visa)).

I think there is no disagreement, that if one's only income is remitted foreign income/savings from before 1-Jan-2024, then such is not treated as assessable income, and there is no need to have a Thai TIN, and no need to file a Thai tax return.

However if one is remitting income earned from 1-Jan-2024 and onward in time , into Thailand, then one need to check the Thai tax code (which defines assessable income) and also check with further amplifying/clarifying documents, such as Royal Decrees and Ministerial instructions to more precisely define assessable income.  More precisely only should check the DTA of one's income source (re: RD-18) and also check with any other DTA's (such as RD-743) to assess if that remitted foreign earned income after 31-Dec-2023 is assessable income,  in addition to considering any Thai derived income.

Also other aspects (in regards to Thai derived income) is in regards to interest from Thai banks/bonds, where IF a 15% withholding tax has already been applied, as by having the withholding tax applied, its possible such interest does not factor into the assessable income assessment.  I don't know enough to be certain there, but it is a factor.

So in short - yes there is some scaremongering , but also yes, there is a need for some (but not all) to file income tax returns who were not required in the past to file.

AseanNow user "Guavaman" recently (possibly on 29-January-2025) called the Thai Revenue Department on their help line, and asked the RD a number of questions about taxation that has been puzzling foreign expats in Thailand , and been the topic of debate on this forum.  One of the questions he asked was this:
----

Quote

 

 Q1: If I remit U.S. Social Security benefit income, is it exempt from taxation?

A1: Remittance of U.S. Social Security benefit income is exempt from taxation.

 

----
ok, that is US income, not Canadian, and this thread is for Canadian income relevant to the Canada-Thai DTA.

In reply to their post, I did note that their discussion with the Thai RD help line was possibly relevant in areas where they did not specifically discuss such.  

What am I thinking of?  Well when discussing USA Social Security the Thai RD noted USA Social Security was not taxable in Thailand and a Thai Tax form not to be submitted it for that.   I believe that the Thai-USA DTA notes such is exclusively (or only taxed) in the USA which per Royal Decree-18 means such income is exempt Thailand tax.

I note other DTAs have somewhat similar wording. And if other incomes in Thai DTAs are also exclusively (or only taxed) in the source country, and not Thailand, and also exempt Thailand tax (pre Royal Decree-18) than I think one could extrapolate that  a  Thai tax form is not to be submitted for those.

Canadian pensions (and similar remunerations) are to be exclusively taxed in Canada.  So if such Canadian pensions is one's only income remitted to Thailand (and one has no local income), one could extrapolate from that a conclusion that an expatriate in Thailand in receipt of a Canadian pensions (or similar remuneration from Canada) as their only income, need not file a Thailand tax return.

Here is the post I am referencing:

Again I am no tax expert, nor a tax advisor. Everyone should research such themselves, but I find this encouraging given the wording of the Canada-Thailand DTA.

21 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

I am puzzling over the German-Thai DTA in regards to pensions. 

 

I have assumed my small German pension is nominally assessable income, based on an official letter from the German Tax office.  After looking at the German-Thai DTA, I am wondering, was i wrong in my assumption?

 

.....

 

if I made a mistake, if any are familiar with the Thai-German DTA, please point out my mistake?

 

Note - this is far too small (and too mute an observation at this time) to bother contacting any tax advisors.

I stumbled across a Youtube video (in German language) here.  Now this is an English language forum ... and also my German language skills are not adequate to understand the spoken German (I used subtitles and Google translate to observe the video):'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B0sZ4xq8UA

However according to that video (best i can understand), German pensions are taxed in Thailand (in general) for residents of Thailand in receipt of such Germany sourced pensions.

It is mostly a mute point for me (as my German pension amount is below the Thai taxation threshold), and i don't remit that pension to Thailand , and I have an LTR visa.  But it will dictate my financial planning for the future, in case in year 2033 (if i am still alive) I decide not to stay with an LTR visa.

1 hour ago, Pib said:

@oldcpu

    While I was of the same mindset as your observation until  a few weeks ago, I'm now of the mindset just as stated by Expat Tax that it only applies to remitted funds from the previous tax year with the previous tax year meaning 2023 or before since the tax year we are all talking about "right now" is tax year 2024. 

 

 

It would be good at some point in time to get a Thai RD ruling on this specific example.

This doesn't affect me as I have most my funds outside of Thailand (much more than a year's pension income outside of Thailand) so its easy for me to make the case (and prove such remitted income to Thailand) is income  from a prior year (more precisely from savings going back over a decade or more).  And in part por.161/162 makes this a bit of a mute point for myself as well.

Still - clarity would be nice.  Not everyone is as fortunate as myself.

I was scrolling through one of the (many) Thailand tax threads, and it pointed to a link on Expat Tax Thailand web page which lead me to a very good Expat Thailand FAQ (question and answer page).  The page was very good, but unfortunately I believe their interpretations on some LTR visa aspects are out of date given more recent clarifications. 

I posted my observations on that AseanNow tax page.

Note i am no tax expert. This is not tax advice. i recommend if the above affects one's financial strategy/actions, that one should take the time to confirm themselves, possibly by phoning the Thai tax help line (try to get a knowledgeable Thai speaker to translate for one).