oldcpu

20 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, to get a TIN you needed a certificate from immigration, but absolutely NO WAY in the future in order to get an extension you will need a certificate from the TRD. 

Who can predict the future?  One can also NOT say it will ABSOLUTELY happen.  The future is not ours to see.

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

I did read something, some kind of clarification by one of the big accountancy firms about this very issue as it is important.

If you realise any asset during a resident year then they will tax it on remittance in any future year when it is remitted, regardless of whether you're resident or not during the year of remittance.

 

I don't believe that correct.   Its only for income realized (earned) in the year in which one was a resident of Thailand. That is consistent with Por.161.162, where it notes the remitted income must be assessable income to be taxed.

Please note, and this is very important .... Income earned, when one was not a resident is not assessable income, and it does not magically change to assessable income when brought into Thailand if one still a non-resident.

However income earned abroad, when one was a resident, will be assessable income when remitted to Thailand.

The officials from those 'big accounting firms' whose names you do not mention, would be well served to call the Thai RD help line and get their interpretation straightened.

Further,  ... don't forget with the caveat it needs to be income from 1-Jan-2024 onward, and it needs to be assessable in consideration as to what is in the foreign source income country's DTA with Thailand ... and also one's Visa (such as an LTR-WP, LTR-WGC, and LTR-WFTP) needs to be taken into account.

If what you type is accurate re accounting firm interpretations, it is disheartening to read of big accounting firms making such errors.

21 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Do not understand that at all.

The funds kept in Thai bank account do nothing. The appreciation against foreign currencies is cash in when? 

The math as I understand it ... (where it all boils down to the Thai baht currently being very strong compared to 1 year ago vs Australian dollar).

Looking at the Australian Dollar.

A year ago, 800k THB was worth 800,000 THB x 0.043191 = $34,553 AUD$

Today that 800k THB in a Thai bank is worth 800k THB x 0.047411 = $37,929 AUD$.  Add to that 1.5% interest (in THB & convert to AUS$) and one has $38,498 AUS$.  ie relative to the AUS$, one has seen the value of their THB (converted) to AUS$ increase by $3,945 AUD$

Conversely a year ago $34,553 AUD in an an Australian bank in Australia, at 8.5% interest, today is worth only $37,490 AUS$.

So the person who kept the 800K THB in a Thai bank actually saw their THB increase (compared to keeping in Australia) by $38,498 - $37,490 = $1,008 AUD$

They are better off by $1,008 AUS$ . i.e. ~2.9% better off on that 800K amount because the 800k THB  was kept in Thailand (instead of  keeping the money in Australia given a weak Australian currency).

Of course if the AUD$ had been stronger vs the Thai baht, this would have been different.

These things are not always as straight forward as one may think..

47 minutes ago, WingNut said:

 

The only potential issue I see in this situation is that you don’t have anything in writing,

No. No. No.

I have my bank statements showing no money coming into the country. The RD can access those if they want, or they can simply believe the statements that I provide them (if ever investigated - which given no income remitted is highly unlikely).

Are the typed (ie in writing) bank statements not good enough?

I believe one must not be too paranoid over this.

5 hours ago, save the frogs said:

People complain about having to keep the 800K in a local thai bank.

But it might actually be a hedge against currency depreciating back home? 

 

Well stated and very polite.

If I may  be a bit less polite, the past year the Thai baht is up:

* 9% vs the euro

*  6% vs the US$

*  9% vis the AUS$

* 11.8% vs the NZ$

800k THB in Thailand bank, for the past year has done better than similar in foreign accounts outside of Thailand.

So to think one is doing better with a foreign currency account in a foreign country, compared to a Thai bank account getting a measly 1.5% interest ?? is not always the full picture.  IMHO - of course.

11 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

You sign financial documents without knowing anything about them?

I was told they were associated with CRS requirements .. but I can't recall exact details ... nor can I be 100% certain they told the truth.  I was not going to spend hours (days ?? ) trying to find out what exact forms are needed for CRS to verify the bank was telling the truth.

They simply wanted Tax ID number, passport #, .. and certification that what I provided was accurate (they already previously had passport info).  They did not have me promise nor agree to anything OTHER than myself certifying I was providing correct information. The bank advised ALL other expatriate customers were required to fill in such.

14 hours ago, WingNut said:

...   as I discussed in a previous post, those who have taxable income and file tax returns might actually be in a better position down the line than those who don’t file at all. If someone doesn’t file for a few years and then gets questioned by the TRD or Immigration, they may have to get into a detailed discussion about the fact that they have only non-assessable income. At that point, the TRD could ask for proof. If the person cites double taxation treaties, they might find themselves at the discretion of the TRD at that point, which could still fine them or hold them liable for unpaid taxes. There could also be questions about how they are sustaining themselves financially in Thailand if their declared non-assessable income seems too low to live on.

 

 According to the Phuket RD official, in my case where I am a tax resident to Thailand, and in my case bringing in no income into Thailand, and not having assessable local Thai income to reach the Thai tax filing threshold ...  and hence I am NOT filing an income tax return, per THE RD DIRECTION, what you stated would not happen (in my case). They were clear on that for my case.

I am going to go with an official of the RD office directly told my wife and myself, and not your rather speculative concern.

As I have posted many times, each expat needs to evaluate this on their own.

5 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Depending on how this turns out, it might be a good option for retired folks to take a 185-day break from Thailand.  Become tax UN-resident for a year, during which you can sell a suitable portion of your portfolio and repurchase, resetting the cost basis if remitted in a later tax-resident year. 

UN ?  Did you mean UK ? US? ( ie a typo) . .. If you mean simply not a Thai tax resident, then perhaps add a caveat to that where it depends on the DTA of one's pension income source country, and also depends if on an LTR visa, as for some of us this is no an issue due to our DTA and/or Visa.

My apologies if that was a typo and I didn't follow through fully.  For those of us who do not have UK nor US incomes, we tend to gloss over a bit posts specific to those two countries.

6 hours ago, Hamus Yaigh said:

Quote

The tax officer informed me that filing a return is now required if you reside in Thailand for more than 180 days during the calendar year, even if no tax is owed.

 

If that is true, why wouldn't the tax authorities inform every expat retiree in Thailand on their obligations and failure to comply penalty up front, much like they are advised in advance on their immigration status? Without any notification upfront of this from authorities there must be thousands of expat retirees who know nothing at all and will continue as they have done in the past.

 

Its not totally accurate.

WingNut either misquoted the official, or IMHO the official made a mistake or did not provide enough amplifying information/caveats.

I believe it ONLY if one's ASSESSABLE income exceeds the tax filing threashold AND if one is a tax resident is a tax return required. 

We have had DOZENS of posts on this topic on this Forum.  One of the users PHONED the Thai RD help line and confirmed that a tax return is NOT required (even thou one resides in Thailand more than 180 days) if one's assessable income does not meet the reporting threshold.

Further, I was told by a Phuket RD official that if I remitted no money into Thailand, and if i had no Thai income, i did NOT have to file a Thai tax return.

11 hours ago, Presnock said:

For anyone with local banks, especially Bangkok Bank.   I know in december, that Kasicorn Bank sent out forms CRS and FATCA or their customers and said that it was mandantory to fill out and return the forms to the bank.  Has anyone with other local banks been informed about these international banking exchange systems?  just wondering as from what I have read about the systems, ALL international banks are affected and have to coordinate with their customers.

Krungsri had me fill in sign some forms when I went to update my bank book sometime back.  I think Bangkok Bank did something similar to me when I was in the branch.  I can't recall the exact form but it may have been CRS related.  I don't stress over such as I try my best to follow the tax laws of the countrys where I get my income from, and Thailand where I reside.  I do thou try to learn the relevant laws so i can best legally manage my tax exposure.

16 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Link????

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/030265guide91.pdf

... by omission (re: foreign income remitted by non-residents) , coupled with the Thai tax code.

17 hours ago, Rob Browder said:

The DTV is putting a dent in their racket; some guy just got hassled at the airport on only his 2nd VE entry, after returning to his home country in between - IO told him just one VE per 12-months (new made-up rule).  Just Be Prepared for how Immigration operates, and any problems they create are solve-able..

I wonder if this was a  'one of' occurrence, or if we will see more of this?

The hope was that for some it would be better to switch from a Type-O non-immigrant to a DTV ... but if this is to be the case it sort of makes such a switch not such a great idea after all.

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

You do know you can pay an agent to go from a 30 day visa exemption stamp to a retirement visa, right? 

Yes - to a Type-O non-immigrant visa for reason of retirement.  And they get new 'rights' then.  < lol >  But then they are no longer Visa exempt.  Are they - right?

On 1/30/2025 at 2:41 PM, timendres said:

Interestingly, the document states that even non-residents (less than 180days in TH) must file a return if they exceed the above

 

 I believe for non-residents, that is only for Thai sourced assessable income, and not for remitted foreign income, even if such remitted foreign income is assessable income.

1 hour ago, Yumthai said:

You're actually hiding your current tax residence(s) because this is what Wise is required to know to comply with OECD standards.

But as long as they don't address you directly to update/confirm your residence I guess it's OK.

Fair enough.  When I do visit Europe (typically for 6 weeks a year) that is my residence.  i see your point.

I actually did change my address to Thailand for a couple of years, but when I needed to change my Wise debit card, I had a problem (they would not ship to Thailand), so I changed my address back to Germany ... and they happily shipped my card there. i picked it up a few weeks later when visiting Europe (and staying at that address).

Perhaps Wise has changed their policy  since when I was using a Thai address ...   (I received a replacement card late last year @  German address and I have not changed my address back to Thailand again).

9 hours ago, PumpkinEater said:

Any other folks out there having this problem?

 

Do you have any friends or relatives in the USA who will let you use their address?  Other countries you could try (with relatives and friends are most EU countries, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, New Zealand (and I suspect some others).  Find someone you can really trust.  Note you still use YOUR NAME, you just note the address is 'care-of' your relative or friend.

I originally obtained my Wise account (and debit card) while living/working in Germany.  When I moved to Thailand, I changed my mailing address to good friend in Germany  ... To something like:

Mr. oldcpu

z.H.d. oldcpu's friend's name (where z.H.d. is like c/o in English)

street address

city, germany

postal code

So I am not hiding anything.  Its clear the address is at care-of another person's address.

That has worked for me.

.

10 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

Many who could meet the criteria, including myself, didn't go for it.  Why?

and that is why you try to put the Visa 'down' .  Because you don't have the visa. 

You need to get out more.

10 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

You need to broaden your circle of acquaintances.

You could not be more wrong.

I repeat , those who have the Visa think it is what it is cracked up to be - and again you were proven wrong. 

16 minutes ago, WingNut said:

That said, as I mentioned in a previous post, I already discussed this with a woman at the tax office. I showed her one of my overseas statements that displayed both income and tax withholding from a couple of years ago as an example, and she told me that I could report the withheld tax as a credit on page 4, section 11, line 13, which is the section where one can enter foreign tax credits to offset Thai tax liability. However, as others have pointed out within this topic, that may not technically be the correct place to report it. So, as you said, hopefully, we’ll get more clarity on this matter going forward from the TRD to where they address the issue of DTAs within the PRD90 forms and with greater precision. 

. 

I recommend you give consideration to what other's have noted. There is a guide that gives more detail as to what goes in each of the fields in a Thai tax form.  I have a partial copy of what I believe to be the wording ( but unfortunately do not have the referenced image😞

Quote

 

No. 11 item 13. Withholding tax credit and tax credit for tax paid in accordance with ภ.ง.ด. 93 and ภ.ง.ด. 94

 

When you received income during a tax year, the law requires the payer to withhold income tax for some types of income. In some countries, this is called “pay as you go” or “pay as you earn”. In Thailand, it is called “withholding tax”. The payer is also required to issue you a withholding tax certificate similar to this picture.

 

If the payer refused to issue a withholding tax certificate, the payer is subject to a criminal penalty. You may receive many withholding tax certificates if you have received income from different payers.

 

The form should tell you how much of income tax was withheld. The withholding tax can be used as a tax credit.

 

Other items may also be used as a tax credit, such as:
    1. Income tax that you have paid using ภ.ง.ด. 94 (half year filing).
    2. Income tax that you have paid using ภ.ง.ด. 93 (advanced filing).
    3. Dividend tax credit (only in the case that you have filled in No. 3 item 5. and item 6. The amount is the same amount in No. 3 item 6.

 

Please add up all the creditable tax in No. 11 item 15. This amount will then be deducted from your tax payable in No. 11 item 14. You will have to provide documents to the Revenue Department to prove the amount of withholding tax.

 

I believe you need a tax certificate if one wishes to use this field?  The English language translation is not good but it does read to threaten a 'criminal penalty' if tax certificate not provided.

I would not enjoy an audit in such a case if it were me and I used that field without the appropriate tax certificate.

15 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

And I  just asked you to name something else. 

and I did.

15 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yes, all very relevant to most expats. 

You asked for something that those on a visa exempt can't do.

I named it.  Clear enough?

15 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, now it's all about the yellow book, not the retirement visa.  Nice try, but let's get back to general case scenarios and not $40k USD stock trading.  Talk about a deflection. 

You can't shift the fact you are wrong.  You can not get a yellow book on Visa Exempt.

You can't shift the fact that those on a type-O/OA visa, will have the right of having extra $$ in their hand after opening a bank account, while those Visa exempt will be $$ more poor after paying the agent.

and I have YET to see anyone visa exempt, pay an agent to give them a one year extension.

You clearly stated no additional rights.  You have been proven wrong.

.

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

I asked about what extra "rights" does a retirement visa holder have that someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp have, other than not having to leave Thailand and getting a 5 year driving license as opposed to a 2 year driving license.  Simple question, really.

 

Nothing paying an agent can't fix.  Do you deny this? 

Living in Thailand for 1 year can be considered a 'right' that Visa Exempt does not have.

An agent won't get you a Yellow Book.

An agent requires $$$ to open a bank account for Visa exempt.  Those on the Type-O/OA can open without that and they have the 'right' to keep their money -as opposed to Visa exempt who has to give up that money to open the bank account.

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Not having to leave Thailand, and a 5 year driving license, as opposed to a 2 year driving license. That's it. 

I just told you.  Try to get a one year extension on your permission to stay in Thailand on a visa exempt.

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Can you think of any other thing the retirement visa holder can do that a 30 day visa exempt stamp holder can not do? 

I just told you.

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

It can be done with an agent, therefore it can be done.  Do you agree?  Yes, or no?

Sure if you want to pay a bunch of extra $$$$$ that those on the 1-year visa don't have to pay. Those on the Non-O / OA visas are out drinking and eating with that money, while those Visa exempt have to hand it to an agent in order to circumvent bank policy.

AGAIN, without an agent, visa exempt you can't open a bank account.

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

Same thing, agents cover it, therefore, why would one need a yellow book?

Having a yellow book, allowed me to use that# as a tax-ID, unfreeze a foreign bank/trading account, and make a timely stock trade earning me $40,000 US.  Without the yellow book ? Nope.  The local RD office denied me a Thai TIN.

Is that clear enough for you.

So I ask you again, try to get a yellow book on a Visa exempt.  Try.

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, please do tell me, what can someone on a retirement visa do that someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp not do, other than the two things I have mentioned? 

I just did.

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Bank account was easy on tourist visa

Glad to read that. 

Of course 30-day visa exemption stamp (and even on newer 60-day visa exempt) is no longer easy.  It was possible 9 years ago ( I did such without an agent) but not so anymore.

32 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Just be aware the retirement visa gives you no more rights here than someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp, except for getting a 5 year Thai drivers license, as opposed to a 2 year driving license.  It is, in effect, nothing more than a 12 month tourist visa. 

I have yet to see anyone on a 30-day visa exemption stamp get a 1-year extension.

Further, when on a 30-day visa exemption stamp, without use of an agent, try to open a bank account here.

When on a 30-day visa exemption stamp, try to get a Yellow Book.

All of those can be done with a Type-O or Type-OA visa for reason of retirement (albeit the yellow book can be a bit problematic at times to get).

37 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I'm bringing it up with you, because you are the one singing its praises. 

OK. Its a great visa. For those who have it, the Visa is what it is cracked up to be.

37 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I have yet to meet a foreigner ever admit to making a bad decision in Thailand. 

You need to get out more.

37 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I didn't know there were any complaints.  I thought everyone was "content." 

Everyone with the visa is content. Re-read what I posted.   Those who complain are those who don't have it.

37 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Sad, or happy, I'll just stick to the truth / facts. 

Glad to read that.  The truth is, those with the Visa are happy.

.

1 hour ago, WingNut said:

The only money I will ever bring in each year will be an amount that qualifies as tax exempt because of the standard deductions and allowances, unless it becomes clear in the future that they start recognizing DTAs and allow tax that was already paid overseas to properly be declared and credited on an annual Thai tax return. But that still remains to be seen.

 

I commend you for your prudent approach - but I speculate you may have a long wait to see DTAs noted on the Thai taxation forms.  ... .. Of course I too would like clarity, and I would even like to be proven wrong in the 2025, 2026 ... etc tax return form ... but I wont' hold my breath waiting for that to happen, despite my desire to see more clarity.