oldcpu

1 hour ago, ronnie50 said:

For those who haven't seen this before, UOB bank (Thailand) has this basic tax calculator. It seems to insist on a monthly 'salary' in the top field, so I just put in 1.00 baht then in the part it asks for other annual income, I entered the amount in baht that I would probably remit once a year. A bit crude, but could be somewhat informative/helpful. It's only a couple of pages long, quite basic and includes your general deductions. and predicts the total amount of tax owing.

 

https://www.uobam.co.th/en/tax-calculation 

I could not see any place to enter 'age'. 

Still, I found it useful for assessing if any tax on income from money in Thailand Banks/Bonds - and it suggests I have no tax owed for my small Thai income from such. 

IMHO that is good in my case, where I did not remit any foreign money into Thailand in 2024 (and even if I did, I believe such should be tax free as some (not all) covered by DTAs, and all should be covered by PAW.161 and also covered by my being on an LTR visa).  In my specific case it supports my assessment that I need not for tax-year-2024 file a Thai tax return for my small Thai income. ... 

Like many others I will wait and see how year 2025 turns out.

Best wishes to all in your assessments as to whether it is necessary for you to obtain a tax-ID and if necessary to file a tax return.

26 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

We just filed our taxes online, using the Thai forms.  Took just under half an hour, as taking notes. 

 

All my remittances were prior 2024 savings, so not declared.  Listing only Thai sourced interest and dividends, and requesting a refund of tax withheld.

 

Logged in with pink ID number, selected file form 90.

 

I suspect your pink ID # has already been activated as a Thai TIN. 

When my and I tried that over a month ago, the pink ID # was rejected.  When later (in a phone call) my wife asked a Phuket RD official why the pink-ID # was rejected, he stated because mine was not yet activated as a Thai TIN.

Glad to read you had some success.

17 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I knew someone would bring up the "heroines."  That's Thailand's only claim to fame. 

Since we are off topic here ... How much time have you spent to study Thai history  - and in particular military history?  I suspect you did not read up on the 1547 to 1549 Thailand-Burmese war, nor
..  the 1584 to 1593 Thailand-Burmese war, nor
.. the 1624 to 1636 Spanish-Siam war, nor
.. the June-1688 to Nov-1688 French failed seige of Bangkok
.. the 1700-to-1701 Burmese-Siamese War
.. the 1717 Siamese-Vietnamese War
.. the 1771-to-1773 Siamese-Vietnamese War
.. the 1775-to-1776 Burmese-Siamese War
.. the 1778-to-1779 Lao-Siamese War
..  the 1785-to-1786 Burmese-Siamese War
..  the 1797-to-1798 Burmese-Siamese War
..  the 1802-to-1805 Burmese-Siamese War
..  the 1809-to-1812 Burmese-Siamese War
..  the 1824-to-1826 Anglo Burmese War (which also involved Thailand)
.. the 1840 Cambodia rebellion (where there was Siamese intervention)
..  the 1940-41 Franco-Thailand war (I bet you NEVER even heard of this !)
..  the 1948-to-1960 Malayan Emergency (where Thailand participated to ensure independence of Malay)

After you have studied some Thai history - and read up on those noted conflicts (where I listed some to make it easier for you), then lets discuss this.

.

14 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Does it float in the air?  

 

What about the land it sits on.  Do you own that "freehold" as well? 

Do you know anything about condo ownership?  Based on that?  I suspect little.

14 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

So, you did have to report previously. Proves my point.

No. You have no point for such a generalization. I changed my visa. No more 90-days reports. Proves my point.

14 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Correct, but farang are "aliens" in Thailand.  Lower than a soi dog. 

Nonsense.

Just now, KhunHeineken said:

I knew someone would bring up the "heroines."  That's Thailand's only claim to fame. 

I guess you never studied the aftermath of the Vietnam war.

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

One where a country, take Vietnam for example, repels invading armies

 

Such as the mid-1980s Thailand repelling Vietnamese attack into Thailand?

perhaps something older?  How about 200 years prior, in 1786 ? :  https://www.jamiesphuketblog.com/2011/06/phuket-heroines-monument.html  (repelling a Burmese invasion)

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

According to other posters, having a Thai pink card automatically means you are identified to the TRD, although not necessarily with the same number.

That is not so clear to me , ..  according to what I understand based on what the Phuket RD official my wife talked to. ... Yes the official noted my pink-ID number could be my TIN number (for on-line tax submissions) if activated, but because I was remitting no money to Thailand, he would not activate the pink-ID # as a TIN number for on-line tax submissions.

According to RD website:  https://www.rd.go.th/14688.html

Quote

"The National Identification Number is used instead of the Taxpayer Identification Number ... for those liable to pay personal income tax and income payers who are liable to withhold tax at source. Only natural persons who have and use a National Identification Number in accordance with the Population Registration Act can use the National Identification Number to file personal income tax returns and file withholding tax returns without having to submit a request for an identification number and a taxpayer identification card."

I am puzzled by the term  'natural person' .. Does that refer to being borne in Thailand. But if referring to a 'real person' as opposed to a business, then yes a pink-ID holder may not have to request a TIN.

Frankly, I find this all very obscure and fuzzy.

When the time comes that I restart remitting money to Thailand, I may (or may not) try again applying for a Thai TIN.  I am also on an LTR visa which IMHO makes it even less clear (less likely ???? I don't know) that I will require a Thai TIN (as my Thai sourced income is too small).

1 minute ago, Gobbler said:

My son pays all the bills. I'm too feeble-minded to handle such a task, or so I was told.  I have a few thousand baht in my account. I am a pauper.  When I die, my son has it all. I don't want him going through the grief (save it for me) of trying to get money from the bank.  He has it now.

 

He keeps the gold, too.

 

I have found when I ask him to pay for something, that he does inquire now why the money needs to be spent at all. 

 

That was an added bonus.

I read the issue with this approach is if your son uses the money you gift him, to pay for your food and your accommodations, and your automobile (and any aspects other of your Thailand lifestyle) then that gift of remitted money is not a tax exemption, it is then assessable, and Thailand tax may be due on that dependent on when the income came (timewise), and dependent on any DTA with the source country.

However I am NO tax expert. That is just what I read.  I could be wrong.

1 minute ago, Phillip9 said:

 

The airline is required to check that you have an onward ticket.  If they fail to do that, they can be fined and responsible for returning you home.  If they check you have an onward ticket and you meet other entry requirements, they cannot be fined or responsible for returning you home even if immigration denies you entry for some random reason.

Interesting - yet my experience is the vast majority of airlines don't check for an onward ticket.

Yes some do check - but most don't (based on my experience and on my talking to other expats and to friends who have visited Thailand).

I guess some airlines just 'gamble' or they don't implement a 'safe' policy with their airline staff.

36 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

Yes I do understand these points. What I'm trying to say is assuming I had a USD 500k savings account slowly accumulating over 30  years (I don't), and I send USD 50k to Thailand in any tax year from that account, how do I judge if I'm sending freshly minted 50k, or 50k that I earned 10 years ago, was already taxed and was sitting in that account? This is largely rhetorical, as I don't think there is any clarity on this. Sure, I could show the bank statements if challenged. That doesn't answer if the money is new or old though... does it?

What I plan to do is keep a record (in a spreadsheet - call this spreadsheet-1) of my foreign savings as of end-of-business on 31-Dec-2023. 

I also plan to keep a separate record (in a separate spreadsheet - call this spreadsheet-2) of any foreign income after 31-Dec-2023.  I will deduct any withdrawals NOT brought into Thailand from spreadsheet-2. Only if spreadsheet-2 is about to go 'negative' will I deduct the remaining withdrawal money (not brought into Thailand) from spreadhseet-1.

And any money I bring into Thailand I will always deduct from Spreadsheet-1. 

The idea here to undo the 'commingled' aspects best possible via an accounting method - to prove all money brought into Thailand was before 1-Jan-2024.

Ideal?  No.  But that is my plan (although it may be totally unnecessary for me given I am on an LTR visa).

30 minutes ago, topt said:

Well here is a link to the Siam Rath article in Thai which is credited under his pic in the linked article

https://siamrath.co.th/n/591447

 

Just using a translate option definitely no specific mention there.

The article mentions the electronic forms P.N.D. 90 and Form P.N.D. 91 and states they can be submitted online.  However I believe that is only possible 'online' if one already has a Thailand Tax ID Number (TIN). (And if someone knows better, please correct me on that).

I suspect if one does not yet have a Thai TIN and one wishes to submit, then the one could fill in the forms (minus the Thai TIN), print them out, and take them to one's local Thai RD.   .... ( and then 'maybe' sit for an hour or more while they try to figure out what to do with a tax submission from someone who has no Thai TIN).

However I type the above noting tax year 2024 P.N.D. 90 and Form P.N.D. 91 forms are not as of yet (as of me typing this) on the Thai Revenue Department web site, so I make this post from how I understand the year-2023 tax forms to work (which require a Thai TIN, I believe).

Again - I am not 100% certain on this - but that is my understanding (that a Thai TIN is needed).

12 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Just a point of clarification. Airlines are fined they are also required to fly you out of Thailand even if you are unable to pay for your flight.

 

I have often puzzled over this explanation.  I am not saying it wrong - I simply puzzle a bit about it.

While I know of (and have on rare occasion encountered myself) case where (when at the airport on my way to Thailand, with me planning on visa exempt) I have been asked for an onward bound ticket (and I had such a ticket) ..  I struggle a bit to see how producing an onward bound ticket protects the airline. 

I guess its a 'policy' protection for the airline , but not an actual protection (as the onward ticket , even if a real ticket, may not be usable in practice)?

For example, Thai airways in Frankfurt, on occasion (not always) for Frankfurt to Phuket (or Frankfurt to Bangkok) flights are known to  have asked for onward tickets out of Thailand.  Typically if one has such a ticket (ie a REAL ticket) it is for a flight a few weeks or so after one's planned arrival in Thailand it may or may not be usable if there is a problem at Thai immigration. 

I don't recall Thai immigration ever ask me for an onward bound ticket, ... but If Thai immigration were to deny me entry (say hypothetical because I had entered Thailand too many times in the past in a recent time frame when trying visa exempt), how is a real ticket in 3 weeks time going to help the airline?  At most it 'might' help me get through immigration to enter Thailand (hypothetically).

Hypothetical , if entry is denied now by immigration  - then a ticket 3 weeks later won't help one leave Thailand now.  The flight departure date must be changed.  And often many of us book cheap tickets where a change to the ticket's flight date can not be changed.

I assume being required to get an onward bound ticket, is to just give the airline confidence that one has a better chance of entering Thailand (if one has done so multiple times in the past).  I can't see it getting the airline off the hook for having to fly one out of Thailand (other than a possibly get out of a fine to the airline by immigration).  I suspect also, anyone in that situation (denied entry) even if the Airline is on the hook, one will have the Airline chase after them for the unplanned ASAP exit flight costs for flying out of the country.

I sometimes think this is just one of those "This is Thailand" sort of things. i.e. something one should know about and be prepared for, but the logic behind such does leave some unanswered questions - where indeed there may be answers - but just not obvious to all of us.

.

9 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

I assume online English language version is available now?

Not yet as far as I can tell.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

Year 2023 appears to be the latest at present time.

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

If not "colonized" what do you call it? 

Influenced.

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

You have no idea.   

That was not called for. 

I won't be dragged into the insult vs insult route.  A route that you have now indicated that you want to go. That's a sign of weak view point when one needs to resort to such.

You might be surprised as to what I know - where I've lived - where I have travelled - but I think you have insults in your mind to cast about  - so I will leave this aspect of this thread now.

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I would also think long and hard about whether you really need to buy a home here instead of renting.

 

IMHO thats good advice all the time - regardless as to timing.  Typically, the vast majority of people spend a substantial amount of money on a home, so clearly a long and hard think is appropriate.

But the question I see ... is doing such a hard and long think today (when such is a good idea) different from doing such a long and hard think 10 years ago?  ... and if it is different today, ... then why is it different today?

52 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Best advice is to do nothing this year.  Keep the status quo and see how this unfolds.  Be patient.

Why ?  Because ONLY of concerns over future taxation implementations?  Or because of other factors (such as market value, interest rates .. etc) ?

13 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

You seem to be one of those holier than thou posters.  Sure, you have never had a happy ending in Thailand, or done "the girlfriend experience."  What BS.

 

Yeah, I have had interactions ....

As noted in my post, revealing one's knowledge of the demographics of the people working the Thailand, Holland, and Germany sex trade is not a topic I would nominally touch on a forum such as this, unless I could plausibly point to some study. In general news sources tend to be unreliable/axe-grinding editorials ... so one either needs 1st hand experience or can point to a proper peer reviewed study.

This is a moderately free forum here for putting out one's opinion.  BUT on this topic, I am not going to get into debating nor discussing this with you, and I already (by inference) provided my reasons.   (Edit : and to clarify :  a very specific few words phrase in William Shakespeare's Henry IV, Act V, Scene 4 refers).

You are welcome to provide from where comes your knowledge, and I cast no judgement there - but given the open nature of this, its not a topic I will touch on either side of the moral equation. 

26 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Hamburg, Amsterdam etc have nothing on Bangkok / Thailand.  Both of these countries, and countless others, have Thai sex workers. 

 

Many use an agent where it's organized crime, many also use such visas as student visas, but their focus is working in the sex trade.  Do you deny this????

Lol !

Revealing one's knowledge of the demographics of the people working the Thailand, Holland, and Germany sex trade is not a topic I would nominally touch on a forum such as this, unless I could plausibly point to some study. In general news sources tend to be unreliable/axe-grinding editorials ... so one either needs 1st hand experience or can point to a proper peer reviewed study.

I'll let others display their knowledge of the demographics (so one can infer from where comes their knowledge).  😄 

30 minutes ago, Keith5588 said:

My question’s are:-

1. Can I transfer all of the money from the sale of my house to my Thai bank account via Wise in year 2025 or future years without any need to declare it to the Thai tax department? Basically it will not be assessable?

2. Should I definitely make sure that this year I spend less than 180 days in Thailand to be on the safe side?

3. Keep the money from the sale of my house in a UK bank or Wise, somewhere that I can receive a higher interest than in Thailand. Would I be confident that I could then transfer this to Thailand in a future year without paying any Thai tax, that it would not be assessable for Thai tax?

4. Should I forget about transferring money from the sale of my house to Thailand and just invest it in the UK. I would still want to look to buy a house in Thailand but could move my savings across confident after reading this thread that it would not be assessable for Thai tax?

 

 

My take on those questions , noting I am NOT a tax expert, nor do I know the UK-Thai Double Tax Agreement (DTA).  Hopefully some who are familiar with that DTA will chime in.  And hopefully those and others will correct my assessment  if I am wrong.

My opinion correspond to your questions

.

1.  If you are a non-resident to Thailand, you can transfer the money from the sale of your house to your Thailand bank tax free in Thailand in the year in which you are a non-resident to Thailand (I know nothing about UK tax on such a sale).  However (ignoring the Thai-UK DTA) if you bring the money into Thailand in a year in which you are a resident of Thailand, then profit on the sale of that house may be taxable in Thailand. IMHO you need to consult the UK-Thai DTA to assess this.

2. To be on the safe side, spend less than 180 days in Thailand in the year in which you bring the money from the (profit of ? the ) sale of your house, into Thailand.

3. Yes, you can also keep the money (in particular, I believe keep the profit) from the sale of your house in a UK bank, so to receive a higher interest. I do NOT recommend keeping large amounts of money in Wise as I believe funds there are not-insured.   However once you bring this money (from a UK bank) into Thailand, then it could be considered assessable and taxable and the paper trail on this (to prove money comes from before 1-Jan-2024) could be complex. 

Its possible you could keep a record of proof of the ORIGINAL purchase price ... and maybe bring that amount in tax free into Thailand when a resident of Thailand.  BUT I do not know if that opinion is accurate

4.   You could keep the money in the UK, but there are ways to bring the money into Thailand if you do so when not a resident of Thailand.

3 minutes ago, stat said:

FYI officially Cambodia taxes the ww income not just the remitted income. I understand that currently this is seldom if ever enforced however the potential tax bill could be far bigger in Cambodia.

with respect to Cambodia, what is their residency definition for filing taxes?  Greater 182 days per calendar/taxation year in Cambodia? or do they have additional requirements to include as residency?  No worries if not known - I am just curious.

I confess I have the same curiousity with respect to Vietnam - and do they tax ww income?

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

 

"An medical insurance is required for every retirement extension if it is based on a original Non-OA visa (Issued at the Thai Embassy in your home country)"

 

Does the above extract from your quote mean that Phuket are now enforcing the insurance requirement for retirees who originally entered Thailand on the basis of a non-OA visa issued before October 2019 (when this requirement was first introduced)? Thusfar they have been the only office who have not insisted on this requirement being complied with in these circumstances!

 

I wasn't intending to suggest that.

I don't know 1st hand Phuket immigration's current policy here in regards to providing (or not providing) a "grandfather" clause for those with a Type-OA issued prior to the implementation of the Thailand wide Type-OA health insurance requirement.

(A mute point, but i had thought the Phuket 'grandfather' implementation for not requiring Health Insurance under a Type-OA was for Visa  'valid-until' dates before Oct-2019  (ie for those already on extensions as before ~Oct-2020) - as my Type-OA was 28-March-2019 issue (with a 27-March-2020 valid until), and I was required to show Health Insurance from the Thai branch of a health insurance company for my 1st retirement extension in Feb-2021.  ie I was not grand fathered.

I did read a recent post on Asean now where someone claimed Phuket immigration was no longer implementing a grandfather clause for those whose 'valid-until' dates were before Oct-2020  - but they provided no details in regards to their visa issue date nor valid-until-date so its difficult to be certain if what they reported is indeed the case.