oldcpu

Thankyou for noting that publication article. I went and searched and found it. Of interest to me, is the article states in excess of 4,000 holders of the LTR visa. Note the word "holders". Now if one goes to the BoI website for the LTR visa, one will read as of the end of April-2024 there were 7,322 applicants for the LTR visa. Basic math (assuming both those websites are accurate), suggest there could be about 3,000 applicants for the LTR visa who either had the application declined, or who are still waiting the LTR visa approval.

I wonder if this also may dependent on the BoI 'screening' officer. When I applied in Jan-2023, I sent both 2020 and 2021 taxation documents - and they insisted on receiving my 2022 taxation documents (which nominally is not due in Canada until April-2023). By the time the dust settled to obtain my LTR-WP visa, I ended up sending BoI taxation documents for 3 years. I concede thou, it may have just been bad timing on my part. Applying in January or February of a year may not be the best time when applying for an LTR visa (as BoI will ask for most recent tax documents, even if not yet available). .

I think, in practice, that was true for most, but it was not true for all. It was not true in my case. One of my pensions is from a multi-national organisation, where I am required to pay tax in accordance with the law of the country in which I am a resident. Before obtaining the LTR visa, I would always leave my income in Europe (and live in Thailand off of savings) and hence I believe I was in practice not in trouble with Thai authorities (for as you note, the remittance taxation practice applied to everyone before the more recent clarification/change). However the multi-organisation which provided that pension, queried me about my taxation, and they were a bit skeptical when I noted I was compliant with Thai law (as I was not bringing my income into Thailand). Before the LTR visa I could not then easily point to any Thai tax document. They did in the end accept I was legally compliant (based more on faith than me having any revenue document to prove), but it did require a bit of convincing. The same was true with an investment I made in Canada. They wanted proof of my paying tax on my global incomes, and they were skeptical in regards to the 'remittance taxation practice' of Thailand in regards to my taxation practice for Thailand (the country of my residence) - in particular for some of my European income. Again, they did in the end accept I was legally compliant, but it did require a bit of convincing. This was a bit annoying to me to have to convince people I was legally compliant in regards to tax. I would get strange looks and queries, and I was on the receiving end of inferences that I was avoiding paying tax (which was not the case - I was taxation compliant). Now with the LTR Visa, and RD 743, I can show them such and its much easier for me. Its much more clear than before (albeit not perfectly clear, as has been pointed out by the concerns of some in this LTR thread). As often is the case in life, any given legislation will be helpful for some, and not helpful for others.

True for the 2023 tax year (where tax returns would nominally be filed early in year 2024) ... although I believe your point not true for the 2022 tax year (where tax returns nominally filed early in year 2023), as I believe that recent note about foreign income brought into Thailand had not yet been announced in very early 2023. Correct me if I am wrong re: the 2022 tax year. Also I note dependent on how much financial information one provided to BoI during their LTR visa application, the BoI may have a good insight into one's finances, and BoI might spot that year 2022 income was brought into Thailand (by a foreigner) was brought into Thailnd in the same year it was earned - and they could 'theoretically' (albeit I don't believe it) have passed such to the Thai Revenue Department. Again, I don't believe this. But in such a case, the Thai RD would then have clear evidence for enforcement of taxation under the previous tax interpretation, if they wanted. I have heard of no such cases. I believe that is consistent with the view - no taxation on money brought into Thailand by LTR visa holders. Also, the Thai RD tax clarification for foreigner tax residents to pay tax (on money brought into Thailand) was after the LTR visa first came out, and as I noted there was a time window where I believe my comment applied. So I think the 'comment' of mine (that you quote) was valid for one taxation year (before the recent tax announcements, that I assume you are noting). Regardless, as noted multiple times on this thread, BoI have made it clear for LTR visa holders (such as LTR-WP) that foreign money brought into Thailand is not taxed by Thailand. Again, when one nominally files an income tax return, the income noted in one's income tax return is for the PREVIOUS year. One does not file a tax return for income still being earned in the current year. Hence many of us interpret this as confirming no Thai tax on that income for the noted LTR visa holders. This is FULLY CONSISTENT with what BoI have stated. I also agree, as also noted in this thread, if one is concerned, then simply wait a year (as in the past) after earning the money, before bringing the money into Thailand. The tax understanding of the situation should be more clear in a year or two from now. A further point I want to make, is that the very same as in the past, its also difficult for Thailand RD to know which year money brought into Thailand was earned (and whether such covered by a DTA), unless one has already passed such information to BoI or to the Thai RD , and if in the case of BoI, ... only if BoI then went and passed such information to the Thai RD there might (?) for some, be a concern? That all reads to be very unlikely and problematical to me. Still, I agree with all that it would be more re-assuring for some, if the Thai RD, in addition to BoI, would simply state ( 'no Thai taxation on any foreign money brought into Thailand' ) for LTR visa holders, just like BoI have stated). I am not worried about such, but my financial situation is likely very different from others.

Indeed, as I typed : " I assume its those, who want to bring a large amount of money into Thailand at one time, and do so immediately upon obtaining the LTR Visa, who are mostly concerned about how the taxation law is applied. " How Jim Tripper believes that is a bad assumption to be concerned , and because one is concerned one could be hit with a huge tax bill all at once (for their concern) - makes ZERO sense to me. "Concern" implies one needs to be careful (and act accordingly to manage not paying unnecessary tax). I can only assume he read my post too quickly and misunderstood the word 'concerned'.

What assumption are you referring to? DId you read my post correctly?

I mostly thought the same - but it turns out, for the income documents I provided, they misunderstood what they read? ... < I am unsure > . Maybe I summarized things badly in my cover 'PDF' files. For example, I listed in a simple cover PDF (supported in subsequent pages in the PDF) how I met the $40K US$ equivalent income for a wealthy pensioner (I received income from different sources, from both Canada and Europe). I clearly listed all my income (including tax documents) and supported this in subsequent pages with copies of official government documents noting the pensions. In the case of Canada, I listed my "Old Age Security" (and I provided the appropriate Canadian government tax document). I did not receive a Canadian Pension yet, so I did not obviously list that as part of my income. Yet BOI sent me an Information Request, asking to see the taxation document for my Canadian Pension ! I first phoned them, and then followed up with a PDF reply to their document request, noting I did not yet receive a Canadian Pension, nor did I need a Canadian Pension to meet the $40K US$ equivalent - where I again listed the exact sources (with supporting documents) as to where my income came from (all passive pensions). They only then accepted my answer - but I am still puzzled to this day, why did they ask for my taxation proof of a Canadian pension, when I never claimed to have such a pension. .... I can only assume they read, were puzzled, and wanted more information? Or maybe the BoI screening officer wanted me to show significantly more income than I was already showing, so they could get my LTR-WP visa approved by their superior? i don't know. It was/is a puzzle.

That is true. I think for many of the expats on an LTR visa, we have no desire to bring all of our money into Thailand. I have been an expat, mostly since 1989, and I have lived in various countries. Ever since becoming an expat, I have adopted a policy of never keeping all my money in any one country. That approach of mine has complicated my life a bit (in my needing to file tax returns to multiple countries every year), but I massively prefer the diversification that it provides me. I assume its those, who want to bring a large amount of money into Thailand at one time, and do so immediately upon obtaining the LTR Visa, who are mostly concerned about how the taxation law is applied. I note two years have mostly gone by since the LTR visa was announced, and I have not yet heard nor read of any case (not even one case) where an LTR visa holder had to pay tax on money that that they brought into Thailand since getting the LTR Visa. .... Hopefully as time goes by, there will be more confidence on this - and the various taxation companies, will update their initial (likely overly conservative) statements/assessments.

I note that the first LTR visas were issued in late 2022, where such income (for the 2022 taxation year) should have had income tax returns filed (if needed) by March/April 2023. And further there were many LTR visas issued in 2023, where this being June-2024, taxation submissions for taxation year 2023 (if needed) should have been submitted by March/April-2024. If there was an issue with bringing money into Thailand for LTR visa holders, given there have been 2 taxation years since the LTR visa came out, I suspect we would have heard of such by now. I have read no news where Thai RD went chasing after LTR visa holders for money brought into Thailand. But that is just my opinion - maybe I missed reading an official RD notice specific to LTR visa holders needing to pay tax in the scenario that concerns you .. ... and further I note my opinion is no better nor worse than anyone else's. I assume we may find out more in the coming year or two, either by total silence on this, or by some active news on taxation. My speculation is that Deloitte will need to update their (June-2022) legal opinion on taxation aspects of RD 743 as the months go by. But again this is speculation on my part - and I have no more insight than anyone else.

Let me 'rephrase that'. "Frankly, I think Deloitte, due to an abundance over caution, have this incorrect - and they are giving their customers a less than fully accurate assessment.".

I think the time to obtain the LTR visa can very drastically, dependent on how one is going about to meet the LTR visa requirements. In my case I applied in January-2023 and obtained my LTR Visa in June-2023. I had a total of 11 information requests from BoI. As part of a deliberate (maybe mistaken) effort on my part, I was trying to give BoI the minimum necessary (about my finances) to meet the requirements, and further I likely made insufficient effort to explain my PDF uploads in full filling the LTR-WP visa financial requirements. Also my timing was bad. When I applied in January 2023, I gave BOI copy of my 2020 and 2021 tax returns , but they wanted my 2022 tax return which was not due until end-April-2023. I did not yet have most of my 2022 receipts to enable me to submit a 2022 tax return. So that took me time to submit a 2022 tax return, have it accepted by the Canadian government, and then provide that back to BoI. And as part of proof of investment in Thailand, I purchased some Thai government savings bonds, where currently only a Bond Bank Book is nominally provided as proof of one's bond ownership. I believe BoI were not used to that, and they demanded a Bond Certificate which nominally has a bit extra information (where Bangkok Bank refused to provide a Bond Certificate, after a 5 week or so go-around ) , and overall that took me about 6-weeks to sort (albeit it could have been sorted much quicker, possibly in a week to sort, had I simply picked up the phone and called BoI a few times followed by trips to the Bank). I also took too much time to prove Self Health Insurance as I kept trying to get BoI to accept different accounts (with the prerequisite cash) where stock trading is possible ( as Self Health Insurance) , and BoI kept saying not acceptable. That also added a few weeks before I 'caved' and provided them more exactly what they wanted. So if an agent is taking time to sort an issue, one never knows what is slowing down the process. At least in my case, I always knew what was taking the extra time. Hence that is, I believe, a good reason for one to do this all themselves. I am not convinced an Agent provides any advantage in the case of an LTR visa application. .

Thai BoI working with Thai immigration grant the LTR visa. BoI say no tax on any money brought into Thailand for LTR visa holders. Who is right? Deloitte? or BoI working with immigration? Do Deloitte dictate terms to BoI ? I think not. Frankly, I think Deloitte have this VERY wrong - and they are misleading their customers.

Hmm ... RD 743 says more than just information about no taxation in previous year - so RD 743 was needed for other aspects - lets not go too far here. Further when RD 743 was put out, I speculate that maybe it was already 'confidentially' known within government how they were then going to start taxing anyone deemed a tax resident (for the 'tax residents' foreign money brought into Thailand, under certain circumstances (ie not covered by DTA, and not a foreign saving before 1-Jan-2024). So given the knowledge of taxation efforts (for tax residents) that was to come soon, the RD 743 had information on taxation added to other items in RD 743. That is my speculation, but the main point I want to make is RD 743 is about much more than just the taxation concern you have. Much more. Further - I want to make the point again. When does one pay tax? If one brings money into the country in year 2025, one does NOT pay tax on such in the same year ( 2025 ) when it was brought into Thailand, unless there is a with holding tax. There has been NO announcements of holding tax. So logically, one submits their tax return in year 2026 (for the 2025 money brought into Thailand), at that point in time, the money brought into the country in year 2025 was the PREVIOUS year. Further there is NO mention in the RD 743 about taxing current year foreign money brought into Thailand for LTR visa holders. I think it falacious to assume that one will be subject to tax on something where there are no legal statements saying one will be taxed. Else one could be taxed on all sorts of aspects where is no law saying one must be taxed on such. So by that logic to tax money on the same year in which the money is brought into Thailand, there needs to be a Royal Gazette statement (or Thai revenue department statement) stating one is to be taxed on such. There is no such statement for the LTR visa saying taxed on the year it is brought into Thailand. If the intent was to tax LTR visa holders on money, in the year in which they bring the money into Thailand, then I believe the BoI and the Revenue Department would make announcements of requirements of holding tax for money brought in. There was no such announcement. That means tax accounting for tax residents is the year AFTER the money is brought into to Thailand, and that makes such income the PREVIOUS year. Again - BoI have been clear for LTR visa holders - no taxation of money brought into Thailand, every time they have been asked. Other than concerned speculation on the internet, has anyone read an OFFICIAL Royal Gazette post (or Thai Revenue department, or Boi Statement) stating there would be a withholding tax specifically for LTR visa holders? I think not.

Well - this is Thailand ... and things can get lost in translation. I think that would be nice for many, but I suspect that assessment may be too optimistic. While I am not affected - like many I am curious - and I guess with time we will learn the actual interpretation by immigration.

I believe that it is simple logic - if one is required to pay tax, then one files their tax return the year after one brings money into the country. So if one brings money into the country in year 2024, the tax return (if it was required) is only filed in year 2025. Or if one brings money into the country in year 2025, then the tax return, if it was necessary, would only be filed in year 2026. i.e. its always the following year for filing a tax return ( if a tax return needed to be filed ) , for money brought into the country. One does not file a tax return to list income the year in which income is earned. That then means the previous year's foreign income is tax exempt ( for the relevant LTR categories). Hence the "statement about the previous year's income". At least that is my interpretation. I am also not worried about such.

I agree. Further my old Type-O visa clearly states "NON-IMMIGRANT VISA" stamped at the very top of the stamp (and as noted, the LTR visa has no such reference to 'non-immigrant' ) . My 'wealthy pensioner' LTR visa has "LTR" stamped with a hand written "P" afterward - to make it "LTR P". NO WHERE dose it have a stamp nor hand written words stating "Non-immigrant". Given other visas (such as NON-IMMIGRANT-B, and NON-IMMIGRANT-O clearly have "NON-IMMIGRANT" stamped on the visa, one would think they would do the same, if they wanted LTR visa to be included in the same booking keeping category as "NON-IMMIGRANT". However they did not include such a stamp on the LTR Visa. I agree that as noted elsewhere on this thread, the Thai immigration visa implementations of Non-Immigrant and Resident don't necessary match the dictionary definitions of the same terms. I won't go into 'tax definitions' of 'resident' as that opens a massive kettle of fish and not directly relevant to this thread, other than to note that one simply can not go by the dictionary definitions of resident and non-immigrant, in considering how Thailand has chosen to group its different visa categories.

Absolutely true about private hospitals in Thailand being very very good. One can thou, run up a large bill, and health insurance can be of a big financial assist. On the other hand, a public hospital in a small Thai city (which has no private hospital) while significantly less expensive, can be crowded and not so pleasant. I was pleasantly surprised to read the reduction of health insurance for the Type-OA visa, and I thought that good news. I was disappointed that they did not go a step further and allow 'self insurance', like they do for the LTR visa. I was also happy to read that they did not merge the Type-O and Type-OA visas (while retaining the Type-OA health insurance requirement), as that was a concern of mine (not for myself, but for friends I have who are on Type-O visas). Most my friends on Type-O visas have excellent health insurance from abroad, that is superior to the Thai Type-OA visa requirements, but it is not accepted by Thai immigration (if one were on a Type-OA). For long stay extensions, on a Type-OA visa, one pretty much needs to purchase health insurance from the Thai branch of a health insurance company, which can mean double health insurance required for those foreigners who do not want to dump their superior foreign (branch) health insurance. So my friends are happy to stay on the Type-O visa where one need not prove health insurance.

The LTR visa is not a non-immigrant visa.

If you are doing so on a non-immigrant type-OA visa, then the answer is YES. Otherwise, on other relatively short duration visas (or visa exempt) I am not aware of such a requirement. HOWEVER you really really really should have health insurance covering you when in Thailand. I could pontificate on a story of a western man (in his early 20s - but for that matter it would have been the same had he been in his 50s ) who got into a motorcycle accident a couple of years ago, when in Thailand, and ran up a MASSIVE medical bill, before he was finally repatriated back to his home country for more treatment (where back in his home country the public medicare covered him - but it did NOT cover him in Thailand). And the story I know of first hand is only one of many.

When applying for the LTR visa one has to upload documents. It's easy to create a one page explanation ( or cover) letter to any PDF upload. I did that toward the end of my LTR application ( after different BoI requests ), and possibly I should have included such PDF upload explanations sooner.

Yes. I have to list her name. My Thai wife also files a separate income tax return to Canada (and to Thailand). Her income is relatively small. Unfortunately, in the case of my Canadian taxes, I can NOT include her as a dependent for deductions, as I am not a Canadian tax resident. And after cranking the numbers, it makes no financial sense for me to change to be a Canadian tax resident. I have no experience with joint tax returns. I don't think it will be a problem - but honestly, I think the easiest approach is to simply contact BoI. Phone them if you are in Thailand, and email them if outside of Thailand. Ask them first.

That makes sense to me ... as they only require 2 years going back when 1st applying for the LTR Visa. ... But I guess we won't know for certain until some of those with the LTR visa reach the 5 year mark. A further point to this, I believe many (most ? ) countries (such as Canada) where one is still required to file a tax return , even if one is not a 'tax resident' of that country, where this can occur when one has any derived income (over a certain amount) from that country (where one is not a resident). In the case of Canada, I am a non-tax resident to Canada. But I am required to file a tax return to Canada because I receive Canadian Old Age Security and a Canadian pension. On that same tax return I am obligated to state ALL my global income (even thou I do not pay tax to Canada on any of my global income earned outside of Canada). Canada wants to know my global income total, so they can decide if the 'withholding tax' they already applied was enough, and whether they should tax me more (than the with-holding tax) on my Old Age Security and on my Canadian derived pension. Also, because I am NOT a Canadian tax resident, I can NOT apply all of the nominal Canadian resident tax deductions against my Canadian pension nor against my Canadian Old Age Security payments, so in that regard I pay a higher % tax than most Canadian tax residents would pay, if they received the same Canadian income as myself. I did receive a notification from the Canadian Revenue Service offering to treat me as a Canadian tax resident even thou I resided outside of Canada (this was presumably offered by them so that I could use more of the Canadian tax deductions ??? ) , BUT if I did that, I would have to pay tax on my global income from outside of Canada to Canada. I did a quick check of the numbers, and for me to be treated as a Canadian tax resident (who actually resides outside of Canada), the tax to Canada on my non-Canadian income (that I receive from outside of Canada) would be large, so it made no sense to agree to be treated as a Canadian tax resident. I do thou, file an income tax return to Canada every year, and when I applied for the LTR visa, the official Canadian assessment of my taxes from that did come in handy (as it states my total global income). This is even thou I am not a tax resident of Canada.

In Canada there is a plan called "RRIF" (Registered Retirement Income Fund" ). In the case of this 'government' registered fund, one is required to withdraw a minimum amount out of the fund every year. Money inside the RRIF is allowed to grow tax free in Canada, but once one brings money out of the RRIF it is taxed by Canada. This withdrawal of money would then show up on one's Canadian Tax return as a form of income (where Canada requires one to file a tax return in such a case). So for the Canadian RRIF, I believe the Canadian tax return might possibly suffice as RRIF income proof (for the Thai BoI, albeit I am unsure). Also, in the case of Canada, if one has a "RRSP" (Registered Retirement Savings Plan) , which I believe conceptually similar to a US 401(k), money inside that 'savings plan' is allowed to grow tax free. But when one is age-71, one is required to convert that RRSP to an RRIF (which I described above) and take a minimum amount out of the RRIF every year. Again, I assume the RRIF income could be used as income proof for the LTR-WP visa (as Canadian tax returns would be available), but I don't know. In my case, I decided to not use an RRIF as proof of my income (as I could qualify via the $40k income and $250k investment route for the Wealthy Pensioner LTR category, without having to resort to an RRIF). But I am curious if there are any Canadians who successfully used an RRIF as income proof for an LTR visa? If they have, then that opens a possibility for me when I have to reprove my finances (and go to renew my LTR visa permission to stay) in 4 years time (as I obtained my LTR visa one year ago)..

I mistakenly typed "private" when I should have typed "public". He works in a public hospital. There is no private hospital in the city where he works.. He has been warned more than once by hospital management about prescribing drugs not covered by Thai medical care.

I totally agree there are more places than Patong in Phuket. Yes there are areas of Phuket where the traffic maham and tourist masses would drive me to depart those Phuket areas. But there are other Phuket areas (such as where I live in the far south) that I like a lot and here it does not have such issues. Phuket is not for everyone. A good friend I know is leaving Phuket, because she can't find a good French language school that is close to where she prefers to live in Phuket. She did find one in Jometien (close to Pattaya). I lived in Phuket from 1997-to-1999 (close to Chalong circle) when it was far far less crowded, and now I am retired here in Khao Khad/AoYon area since summer 2019. Retiring here was one of the best decisions I have made. I don't have the taxation concerns some have, as most of my pension income is covered by Double Tax Agreements and further, I also have an LTR visa. Each person needs to find their own best location. For some its Phuket. For some Phuket is the last place. For some living in some other place than Phuket (but still in Thailand) is ideal, and for some, it can't possibly be anywhere in Thailand. If everyone wanted to retire where I live now, the place where I live would not be as nice as it is. .