oldcpu

Phuket.

This is Thailand and what works one time, may not work another time or not work in another place. When I went to renew my Thai driver's licence in Phuket a few years ago, I used my yellow book/pink-ID combo instead of a residence certificate from Thai immigration in Phuket. It was accepted for the renewal. I was a "happy camper". A short time later, I mentioned such to a Phuket based foreign friend, and he was surprised, as he had tried the same a couple of years prior, and the yellow book was not accepted. So maybe I was just lucky, with the right person on shift at the licence bureau at the right time. There appears to be no consistency - which is not a surprise. Fortunately the amount of money being mentioned in this thread for a residency certificate (from 0 to 800 THB) is not large.

They can say what they want. I did such. I changed my career 4 times ( and changed my work continent 4x) before settling down in the job that provided superb insurance. ... and I would have changed again had it made sence. No. You are just wrong.

No. I kept my eye on the job market the entire time I was employed ... and compared my benefits and salary to what was available elsewhere. Your generalization (?) view there, in the case of my employment and the experience of others I have talked to, could not be more wrong. .

Indeed health insurance does tend to go up for most when one gets older - but not for everyone. As has been pointed out, the knowledge that health insurance costs nominally go up is the reason why some of us, when we were much younger (and not in our 70s like myself now), when we went job hunting, we found a job that provided subsidized health insurance as part of a pension plan. In my case the job may have not had the best salary (at the time) but that subsidized health plan that came with the job was great (where in my case the rate does NOT go up when I get older). That assurance that I could have subsidized health insurance for the rest of my life was worth a lot to me - and after I spent a LOT of time cranking the numbers (decades ago) I came to the conclusion that it was worth taking a small salary cut to work for this organisation where they would subsidize my Health Insurance when I got older. I think that is something for those in their 30s, and 40s to take note of, is keep the possibility of a subsidized Health Insurance in mind (one that one can keep and still be subsidized when one retires), as a hiring 'perk' , when you go job hunting.

I suppose another risk, is that the "powers that be" might decide to crack down on the Agents and the IOs who together work to approve retirement extensions of a person who does not actually have the 400k (married to a Thai) or 800K, in the bank. I do believe there is a risk, if that happens, then in addition to going after the agents, and the IOs, they could go after the foreigners who used same agent's services. I recall back in the late 1990s, it was possible on a 30-day Visa-exempt status to never leave Thailand, and simply pay an IO (who one would meet discretely after office hours, in some location outside of immigration), to take one's passport and get the necessary entry/exit stamps for one - and do this every 30 days ... every month, month after month after month. However eventually, after some time, this was stopped. The IO was in a LOT of trouble, and the entry stamps in the passport were very slightly different such that it was detectable that such an illegal service was used. Anyone showing an IO their passport could land themselves in trouble if those stamps were spotted. Some foreigners discovered with those stamps in their passport, upon discovery, they were in essence made personna non-grata to Thailand ... I don't know for how long a period of time. Often those who used such an IO passport service (to stay in Thailand), immediately reported their passports lost. As soon as they obtained a new passport, they destroyed their old passport. This required a lot of paperwork, etc ... but it avoided being personna non-grata. Of course back in the late 1990s, there was not as much computer system tracking. So my view is there is always a risk, when trying to work around the system, that it could bite one in the end. That monologue of mine is NOT to say I think agents are bad. I have elderly friends who ALWAYS use an agent. They meet all the requirements but they find using an agent is much easier for them, and they don't mind one second in paying the money. So I fully believe using agents is suitable for some who also meet the requirements. Also, I (for one), am glad that the current approach works for you, but please do be aware it does carry some risks - if not now - then potentially in the future. Best wishes.

I note your points, but I don't believe either of us actually KNOW the financial average of statistics of those who applied for LTR-WP. So I dispute that a bit. In my case it was for an 40K pension (and NOT 80k) and a condo that mostly made up the $250K investment in Thailand. In fact my condo would have MORE than made up the $250K investment, but the condo was in both MY name and my wife's name, so I could only claim 50% of my condo's value. I suspect it is quite possible more than 50% of the LTR-WP are going the $40K passive pension route, as they, have a condo in Thailand worth $250K. After all , this is a "Wealthy Pensioner" LTR visa. It stands to reason such could afford a condo. But like you, I do not know the statistics here - we are both speculating. As for the comparison with nomad lifestyle vs TH. That is YOUR comparison. Fair enough. But it is NOT my comparison. I suspect it is NOT the comparison of MANY others. Please NOTE that I replied to a very specific quote of yours stating a LOT of people seemed ok ... you did NOT restrict it then to ONLY those with a nomad lifestyle. IF you decide to amend such and now restrict it to those with a nomad lifestyle, then possibly the LTR concerns you raise may be less OK to them (especially if they have managed their finances NOT to pay income tax anywhere in the world (to which I note good for them !! ) ), ... although even they, if over age-50, are likely considering a non-immigrant type-O or type-OA visa - dependent on how any possible tax changes may , or may not, pan out. .

I think almost everyone is watching this, but I think there are a few reasons why everyone is not overly excited about this: (1) this is not yet law - so far this is what? one or two Thai officials stating this 'their' plan? A lot can change between now and the implementation, and (2) I suspect most of us on an LTR-WP visa, already paid foreign tax (in country of source) on our income (pensions) and we are covered by a Double Tax Agreement, so the impact of any such law, IF it comes to pass, could be non-existant, and (3) even if such a possible change to taxation is implemented (AND even if LTR visa impacted), if one compares a LTR-WP to a non-immigrant Type-O/OA (for retirement extensions) the LTR-WP is still preferable over the Type-O/OA, even if taxed, and (4) given the Royal Decree backing the LTR Visa, it simply could be the LTR Visa will not see any such hypothetical new tax implementation, IF (note the IF) such is implemented. The above is not to say those of us on the LTR Visa are not watching this. I think clearly we are watching such, but there are reasons why we are not overly excited about such a prospect.

I don't think the vast majority of LTR visa holders on the forum are pensioners, but I note from the BoI website most recent statistic, they (the pensioners) are the largest group (if one ignores 'dependents'). There are 1,260 LTR-WP according to BoI (at end of May), and ignoring 'dependents' the next largest number is 922 highly skilled professionals, followed by 634 work from home professionals. The 'wealthy global citizens' are relatively a very small number, only 197. I also suspect the number of LTR-WP, whose passive income has not yet been taxed outside of Thailand, is relatively small. Yes, I know some have managed to legally work for employers where there is now no tax on their pension (and thats good for them !! ) , but I suspect that is a relatively small minority, and most LTR-WP holders have already paid tax on their pensions and are covered by a Double Tax Agreement (DTA). Still having typed that, I think most of us are very interested to learn how these tax implementations will 'pan out'. .

I think for an individual going for Health Insurance, that is a valid concern if forced to change insurance companies. I suspect thou there is a good possibility that the existing insurance company would still renew one's policy, BUT they MIGHT put a new clause that a new 'precondition' will not be covered. I am not 100% certain that would happen, as the pre-condition developed while one was under that Health Insurance company's coverage , but I guess such is possible. Someone who knows more about Health Insurance than myself would need to chime and and confirm that such is a BIG and VALID concern. It could very well be. Also whether or not a developing pre-condition creates a Health Insurance issue (with ones finances, or one's Visa approval (if one has a Visa requiring health insurance)) is not something I know. In my case there is no issue if I were to develop a pre-condition, as my insurance is part of a group package of possibly more than 1,000 people, and I have been on this insurance plan for over 20 years. I had no preconditions at the start over 20-year ago (nor since), so anything that develops now, that insurance company is obligated to cover (if they want to keep their +1,000 person contract). The biggest thing I have noted - as I mentioned, is the Thailand private hospitals, after a medical, will come up with all sorts of recommendations of extra examinations and tests so to make more money for the hospital. One needs to make a good assessment as to whether such recommendations are really necessary (ie go for a second opinion where possible) - or if one's insurance company covers it all and one is not worried about a renewal with the Insurance company, then I suppose one could go for the Thailand hospitals' possibly unnecessary recommendations.

My Thai wife and I went to MedPark at the end of May this year. She went for a routine (once every 5 years) colonoscopy, and I went for a routine annual medical examination. The cost for both were significantly more expensive than what we would pay for similar procedures in a private hospital in Phuket. But my wife was very curious about the hospital, and my excellent Health Insurance covers the extra expense, so we were only out of pocket the amount for the travel and the accommodations for a number of nights in Bangkok. I say a 'number of nights' as my wife used this opportunity to visit highschool & university friends (from decades ago) and also to visit relatives in Bangkok - plus do some shopping in Bangkok. MedPark is very luxurious. Very comfortable waiting areas with wifi in the hospital. The doctors appeared competent from what I could experience, but then at age 70 I am fortunate to still be very healthy. My wife was satisfied with their (MedPark's) colonoscopy procedure. My wife and I have been to Bummrungrad many years back for medicals, and the MedPark expensive cost is comparable to Bummrungrad's costs (maybe MedPark is even more expensive). My wife has 3 Thai doctor's in the family: a brother-in-law, a niece, and a nephew (who don't work in Bangkok). She was told that MedPark was going out of its way to attempt to hire Thailand's best doctors by paying the doctors more than what other hospitals pay their doctors, and also MedPark was making an effort to procure the best equipment for the doctors to use. I am no judge of that, I am just noting what my wife was told. Will I go to MedPark again for a routine examination? Unlikely IF by myself as Phuket's private hospitals are decent. But my wife was happy and she may want to go again, and if she does, I will go with her. Money is not an issue, and a happy wife is a happy life.

There are Health Insurance companies in Europe that take a different view - where for those over a certain age, they require the person to take an annual medical. If one does not do so, their health insurance can become invalid. What I was told was that these Health Insurance companies looked at the statistics, and their assessment was it was cheaper for them, if a medical problem was diagnosed early (and treated) as opposed to diagnosed later, when the treatment was often much more expensive. I appreciate there are many in this thread who have an entirely different view - but I think when a Health Insurance company looks at this from a straight $$ and cents point of view, one should give more consideration for going for an annual medical. Now having typed that - I also believe don't always follow through with every recommendation from a medical from a private Thailand hospital, as I believe they are often looking for money. ... Rather get a second opinion where appropriate. Often one's medical health insurance (I know mine will) pay for a second opinion. .

Yes - this is the sort of Health Insurance that I have (from a European government controlled/run organisation), and it covers both myself (now age-70) and my Thai wife (age-57). I pay about 240-euros/per month for 'Health Insurance' plus 'Long Term Care' insurance. This is deducted from my European pension and further, my former employer contributes over 200-euros per month to this as well (as part of a pension perk) where the former employer's amount increases as I get older, while my contribution does not increase. So overall the Health Insurance costs ~440 to 450 euros/month. Expensive, but its very good. As noted, the global health coverage that comes with this is excellent. Currently this is provided by Cigna, but every few years, the European 'government' organisation I used to work for, renegotiates the pension for the entire organisation (~800 or more employees and ~200 or more retirees), so to ensure competitive rates and 1st class health coverage. It is a nice pension perk, and this Health Insurance was one of the main reasons (2 decades ago) I went to work for this organisation, in the knowledge that I would get great health insurance when I retired. The 'downside' was the Health Insurance was not accepted by Thai immigration for the Type-O/OA visas, nor did I know enough how to get it accepted by BoI for the LTR visa (even thou coverage is unlimited). (I now know the 'trick' thou for the LTR visa - which is getting a letter from Cigna saying coverage exceeds $50k US$ equivalent coverage - which I may use when I go for the 2nd part of my 5-year permission to stay on my LTR visa). Of course this information on one should keep their Health Insurance upon retirement, does not help those who are already age-70 and hunting for new health insurance, BUT for those in the age of 30s to 40s, if looking for a different job, take special note if there is a pension and also in particular if there is subsidized health insurance that may come as part of a retirement package.

That is my understanding. When I had my type-O/OA visa, Phuket immigration required such on the same day. Hence when I had a Bangkok Bank account, I had to order the bank info a week advance (as they get this from Bangkok) and when they called stating such would be ready, I had to immediately go to the bank early the next morning, get the letter (dated that very same day), then rush to Phuket immigration. The fact that I had to wait for the information from Bangkok meant I never knew to the day prior, as to when I could go to immigration for the extension. I have friends who have have been rejected by Phuket immigration because their bank information was a couple of days old. They were annoyed given the information on the Phuket volunteers page. Given one of them was 89-year old at the time, having to do an extra trip to the bank and back to immigration, in a rush on the same day, was not so pleasant. If it were me, I would have considered an agent in such a case (ie if I am so lucky to reach age 89). The slowness in Bangkok Bank, lead me (while I had the Type-OA visa) to switch to using Krungsri Bank, for the proof of 800K THB in the bank. Krungsri Bank in Phuket will (and did for me) issue such same day , and not have to obtain the documents from Bangkok.

Wow ! only 15 minutes. EXCELLENT. While I was on a Type-OA visa (and then later a Type-O visa), it would typically take me a few hours minimum at Phuket immigration (and I had all the paperwork every time but once - but I note most of the time was spent waiting), albeit I concede I never went there on a rainy day (my timing always had me going for an extension during the dry season - no rainy days). I have a different Visa now so I don't have to do this annual extension of the permission to stay, but its GREAT to read this went so well in Phuket. Thanks for posting.

I still had the cough for a while after I recovered from COVID. I also thought I had more fatigue than normal after COVID, but my younger Thai wife just laughed at me and claimed I was just being my normal lazy self complaining of being tired. Perhaps she was right. I did find my times for my morning daily ~4km jogging times increased MASSIVELY once I restarted jogging after COVID (ie I was jogging slower), but I can't be certain it was just COVID - for there were other factors that could explain my jogging slower. I had COVID symptoms a couple of days after arriving in Thailand, where in the previous weeks I was traveling in Europe for 2 months, doing relatively minimal exercise in Europe while traveling around. So possibly it was the 2 months of not enough exercise, or possibly post-COVID, or both ? ... but its now a year later, and I also note my Vo2max has dropped (from 47.5) massively to 35.5 , in addition to my morning jog being much slower. This is not totally clear thou, because I also note thou, I changed smartwatches (Samsung Galaxy-3 to Samsung Galaxy-4 classic) so that may also have given a lower v02max. Maybe the Galaxy Watch-3 was giving me inflated vo2max values? And I am now age 70 instead of age-69. Many people believe age can be a factor. So the effect of these things can be hard to say/assess. I do suspect thou, COVID has contributed to my being a bit less fit.

My Thai wife was curious about MedPark hospital in Bangkok, so (last month) she went there for her routine (once every 5 years) colonoscopy, and dragged me along for me to go for my annual medical. In MedPark she had to show up early in the morning (around 9am), where she was assigned a hospital room (with an 'in-the-room' toilet), she was provided the medicine, and did the preparatory 'cleaning' before the colonoscopy. At around 3pm on the day, they conducted the colonoscopy. She had them put her to sleep for this, and so I showed up at her room at around 6pm (where I completed my annual medical in MedPark hours prior). This is a luxurious hospital, with incredible views of Bangkok and relatively luxurious waiting areas. Its also very expensive. I brought my laptop PC with me, and given the luxurious waiting areas, I was able to use my laptop PC in reasonable comfort while waiting for my wife. For her colonoscopy, the actual costs were * Colonoscopy : 23,100 THB (believe it or not - this was a promotion price !! (its already relatively expensive)) * Lab Pathologists fee : 600 THB (my wife had some polops that were snipped) * Physician fee (surgery and procedures): 1,000 THB * Laboratory - GI biopsy : 1,900 THB * Medical supplies : 2,225 THB ... Where the above all added up to 28,825 THB ( ~725-euro or ~$785 US$). A friend of mine in Germany noted it cost him 1/2 that price in Germany, also including some polops snipped and tested. He did thou have to do the preparation at home, the night before ... where (in my experience) on the trip from home to the hospital - one is always worried one could have to go to the toilet while traveling and not be able to make it to a toilet in time. Fortunately, for my wife and myself, our (expensive) medical health insurance paid for the all medical expenses. We were out of pocket for the air fare to/from Phuket, and for the accommodations in Bangkok, as we could have much easier (and for a less expensive outlay of money) stayed in Phuket and conducted such procedures in Phuket. But my wife also took the opportunity to visit friends in Bangkok (staying a few extra nights), do some shopping (which she loves). As I have posted elsewhere, a happy wife is a happy life (and she was happy), so this worked out to be a fun travel in the end. And my wife did get to checkout "MedPark" hospital, where she was VERY KEEN to see the hospital first hand.

Thankyou for your post. I thought the BoI reply to you was in part encouraging where they stated: " Please contact your local Immigration office if you wish to do a one-year report near your location, or visit the Immigration office at the Chamchuri Building in Bangkok. Each Immigration office may have different guidelines for the one-year report, so we recommend contacting them directly for specific information." It has been reported on this forum already of an individual who remained in Thailand for the entire year, and was able to do their one-year report at their local immigration office (sadly, I did not write down which office - and I am not about to dig through this long thread to find it). But given that story, and the quote from the BoI reply that you provided, I am hopeful that we could see more and more local immigration offices be willing to process the 1-year reporting (although I concede it may take a while - and I won't hold my breath). Fortunately in my case, as long as my health holds out, I am likely to travel out and back in Thailand a couple of times per year, which means I won't need to go to Bangkok. Now that's my perspective, where instead I note that my Thai wife loves going to Bangkok to visit high school and university friends and to shop - and a happy wife is a happy life ... so one could say there is still an optimistic outlook for some of us when it comes to this annual reporting.

In this case, for the sake of foreign women and Thai men who are married and live in Thailand, I hope you are right. Still - cynic that I can be at times, ... I still think an underlying nationalistic (and possibly subconscious anti-foreigner sentiment) , if there should ever be a case of "saving face", ... could make this an exception to your view. Cynically I wonder if there could be one-sided listening by the government. .... worst case resulting in foreign women could be required to show limited income, much like foreign men (married to Thai women) have to show reduced income. I say reduced as I am thinking of the 400k THB Type-O/OA non-immigrant financial requirements (for reason of foreign man married to Thai woman) as opposed to the 800K THB Type-O/OA non-immigrant financial requirement (for reason of retirement). ie The amount can be reduced for a foreign man (if married to a Thai woman) but not eliminated. .... So if the government is pushed into a 'loss of face' by too many public complaints, would a similar 400k THB requirement be applied to foreign women? I think not - unless of course there is a LOT of publicity around such - after which, I would not want to venture nor risk the outcome, for foreign women married to Thai men.

While there is definitely an imbalance here (arguably unfair to both married Thai women and to their foreign husbands), IMHO it may be best not to 'rock the boat'. Cynic that I am, I I suspect if this were to be addressed, the result would be to require the foreign woman to prove her income. ie I believe a Thai perception of foreigners (having wealth) would be stronger than the Thai perception in regards to a Thai men being the main bread earner in Thaliand. This then would make life difficult for foreign women in Thailand (who have Thai husbands - unless protected by a 'grandfather' clause). But as noted - i can be a cynic.

Thanks for the recommendation. I think thou, I will stick with my current Global Health Insurance with Cigna Europe. It does cost a LOT more than what you pay Hanse Merkur, but it has excellent coverage, and further it covers both my wife (age-57) and myself (age-70), and it is heavily subsidized as part of my pension. .

They sent me a letter - advising me NOT to file a tax return unless my income situation (globally) was to significantly change - they stated in the letter that was because I was a non-resident to Germany. However if one looks at the pension amount, and the statements they provide online, it is clear there is a withhold amount.

Please let us know if you get an updated reply.

Many of us do NOT rely on Capital gains for our income. I definitely do NOT. Those that do rely on such (IMHO) need to give serious consideration as to where they live - and not just in regards to Thailand.

May I ask (out of my curiosity) as to what (1) immigration office in Thailand, and (2) what non-Thai branch of a Health Insurance company? My understanding is the 'signed form' is ONLY applicable for the initial Type-OA visa application and not for the subsequent extensions. I know Phuket immigration do NOT accept that form for an extension. Instead they give one a list of Thai branches of Health Insurance companies and one MUST use one of those. Further, my Insurance company Cigna Europe FLAT OUT REFUSED to sign that form re: Thai cabinet rules. They replied they did not know the Thai cabinet rules (even thou I provided to them both Thai language and translations to English language version of the Cabinet ruling) and they further replied they had no interest in doing so. Instead they advised I had to use their 'stock ' form.