JAG

6 hours ago, madmitch said:

Here we see the big difference between developing countries like Thaiand and developed countries.

 

Many Western countries are breaking their budgets to compensate people who are laid off work, whether permanent or temporary, as a result of COVID-19 restrictions. Here most of those who will be sent home will receive not a single baht from the Government, whose generosity so far has extended to give a 3% discount on electricity and water bills. It's surely time to dig into the reserves and help Thai citizens.

 

And the situation has now been exacerbated with the closure of shopping malls and markets in Bangkok. How are market traders going to make any sort of living and will stores continue to pay their stay-at-home staff? Come on Prayut, you need to help them....and that doesn't mean giving them a 1,000 baht shopping voucher!

Think about those to whom this government is beholden. There will be no real effort to relieve those affected. They will be expected to "go home to their farms".

Father Winai ( Parish Priest) at the Cathedral of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Chiang Rai, issued the following:

2 hours ago, stouricks said:

Common sense?  A CURFEW on TOURISTS. Can they, and only they catch the virus at night time?

No, I think he is proposing a "general curfew" which will apply to everyone in Thailand.

He is also proposing that further tourists are not admitted to Thailand whilst the curfew is in place.

14 hours ago, YetAnother said:

as usual , in his ideology, all non-thai are of no consideration

To be fair to Anutin (you just won't believe how difficult that was to write!) He was addressing the Thai population on a Thai broadcasting station. It goes without saying that those of us who live or are visiting should simply follow the measures that are put in place for the Thais, whatever we think of them.

14 hours ago, DLock said:

 

...as opposed to all the foreigners trying to bend the rules in tourist areas looking for places to congregate and drink beer out of coffee mugs and meet girls...

 

...best get that big stick out.

Yes, wasn't that utterly stupid, as utterly stupid as Anutin's outbursts.

3 hours ago, Woolsgibb60 said:

Exstension how much 1900 baht I expect so they will not let 1900 baht slip  through there fingers got to get the millions back what they are losing 

That is exactly what Chiang Rai Immigration have done for me. I have a multi entry type O. On Tuesday ( the day my entry stamp expired) I went up to Mae Sai to spend a couple of hours in Burma, and get another 90 day entry stamp, but the border was closed. Today they gave me an extension of stay for 60 days (B1900) and fined me for the 4 day overstay (B2000). My wife is away at the moment, and although they were not happy that she was not present, I had all the paperwork and my teenage daughter with me. They copied her ID card, included it in the dossier and questioned her in Thai before issuing the extension. My visa expires before the 60 days is up, and when I asked about how to renew it if the borders are still closed, they didn't know. Lucy tells me however that the immigration lady told her that next time she would have to come with me again. "Next time" - maybe they will be issuing further extensions if the borders remain closed? Who knows? Certainly the B1900s could be a windfall!

22 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Maye get a haircut and drop the mascara? Might help? Just putting it out there.

And the stud necklace.....a nice tie might help.

I wouldn't bank on it "mon ami". A few years ago i turned up there in my Blazer, Regimental tie, pressed flannels and highly polished brogues. i got lots of grins and salutes from the Gurkha Security boys, but once inside they still looked at me like something left on the pavement by a soi dog!

Well, the xenophobic racist in a suit look didn't work too well,

going for the man of action look now - labelled polo shirt and body warmer!

10 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

There's a big difference between treatment, cure and prevention. Clickbaits are now playing the cure playbook, they know how to pull people in.

 

I've put this here before...

 

Hoping there's a miracle cure belongs in the bargaining section. At least it's a move ahead. Humans are pretty hardwired to execute mental katas.

Looks pretty like an  older idea:

On 3/17/2020 at 2:34 PM, Basil B said:

Well, first of all the ventilators they use now are nothing like what I recall, they are all singing complicated and over engineered.

I recall a steel box with a bellows on top,  If I were designing I would start with, KISS (keep it simple, stupid), off the shelf parts, maybe an Arduino or Raspberry Pi as the controller, linked by WiFi to a remote monitoring station, as it is likely many people will end up being treated in their own homes by family, friends and volunteers.

Donkeys years ago in the army I remember being shown a device called, I think, a "Porton Ventilator". My memory of the details is hazy, but essentially it was a hand operated ventilator, which was designed to enable medics on the battlefield to keep chemical agent casualties breathing - such casualties usually die from impaired lung functions.

Something along those lines would be the starting point for the ideas you are suggesting. Low tech, quick and simple to make and use. Heaven knows,  the MOD probably has several sheds full of the damned things!

And before anyone gets too excited, the suggestion is to supplement in an emergency existing resources, not replace them.

5 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

 

i have to assume my description is what most normal well adjusted tourists and human beings do.

i have no actual empirical experience with this.  

So were you riding this horse along the road to Damascus then - when there was a thunderbolt which knocked you from the saddle, and a voice from the clouds spoke unto NCC1701A saying; "Go home, lock yourself away and <deleted> no more..."?

4 hours ago, OKF said:

I heard that the Britsh Government bought land to be able to burry all the dead from that virus. Yes you could call it pragmatic..... I think the way the UK deals with the Virus is worse or similar to Thailand. The UK will end up same or worse then Italy, that is actually clear already looking at statistics. And yes even specialized hospitals already run out of ventilators and have not even had a number of cases. But yeah all those  old people that voted for this Johnson nutter to leave the EU for a better life will soon feel what it means....in my opinion the UK and the US, Thailand and Japan are dealing inresponsible with the issues and they will face the consequences on this soon. BTW Mr. J and Mr. T seem to be brothers(?)

I wonder, could you stand up when you have something to say? When you speak from a sitting position, the meaning is somehow lost because it is muffled and indistinct...

8 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Jesus! At the very very least they could have staggered the start!

I come from Bath. Whilst in many ways a beautiful and wonderful City, it does regard itself as "special", and rather takes pride in being different. That can translate into a sense of entitlement - "The rules don't apply to us!" 

That probably was the approach taken to the Bath Half Marathon.

55 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't understand what you are suggesting. Of course no one should refuse treatment, but don't expect miracles. Hospital staff will do their best, but as is clear from Italy, best is not always good enough to save people's lives.

Just be realistic and don't expect to get a ventilator regardless.

I am suggesting  a programme which could markedly increase the number of available ventilators, and allow more people to be treated in the present and forthcoming emergency.

I accept that the standard of care, and indeed the quality and versatility of the machines may fall short of "best practice", but i believe that is preferable, and better, as it will allow for less stringent rationing of care. My comments about "St John's Cadets" were not perhaps the best analogy. Nevertheless, you drew attention to the situation in Italy, where many elderly patients are effectively unable to be treated. If this crisis/epidemic is to last for months, then "emergency trained" staff, working under supervision, using "emergency produced equipment" are one way of addressing that situation.

I don't think that the analogy of the inexperienced pilot holds water. I can choose not to board an airplane if I do not consider the pilot experienced. If I were seriously ill from this disease, and perhaps facing death, then I would not be likely to refuse any treatment which could be offered on similar grounds.

There, I don't see that i can put it any more clearly.

43 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Fortunately for the potential patients, that should never be allowed by the authorities. Would you fly in a plane piloted by a teenage St Johns cadet with a few days training? Trained health care workers know how to look after sick people, teenage St Johns cadet with a few days training do not. All that would happen is that they would themselves get infected and increase the burden on hospitals.

Seems to me that most people have no idea what is involved in nursing care from their rare visit to a hospital. People don't spend years as students because it is so easy to look after sick people.

So just what is your suggestion?

Refuse treatment?

41 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I thought I explained why it's not a good idea to just train a load of people to do a specific task that is normally done by people trained over years to look after sick people. To use the pilot example again, it's possible to train people to fly a plane quite easily, but would you want to fly in a plane when the pilot does not know what to do in an emergency? Anyone could be trained quite quickly to do many surgical procedures, but real surgeons know what to do when it all goes wrong.

Do you really want your elderly parents on a ventilator being operated by someone that only knows how to operate the machine and has no clue about nursing care?

 

It's possible that such a situation is being dealt with and more are being trained to use respirators as I write, but I have not heard if that is the case. It's certainly not going to work if they wait till it's all turned to doodoo and they suddenly decide it would be a good idea to have more ventilator operators.

 

Anyone that wants to know what it could be like in their country should read up on what is happening in Italy- it's turned into a disaster in hospitals with many staff infected and in isolation..

My point remains, in extreme circumstances - and after all that is what we are facing - then something less than the gold standard which you describe is far, far better than nothing. This applies to both personnel and equipment.

Yes you have explained your point, I have put forward an argument for specific action in these particular circumstances. I am not suggesting that experienced fully trained nurses are replaced by emergency trained staff - supplemented!

When this is all over, and, God willing, most of us have survived, then perhaps it will be time to take a long hard look at how we manage our society. Personally, whilst I believe in the effectiveness of free markets, some things are more important, and beyond, market forces. The fight against this virus is a classic example. So make the ventilators, train people to use them, and worry about the possible consequences afterwards. Personally I would rather, if I needed it, far rather be cared for by a teenage St Johns cadet with a few days training than be told to <deleted> off until a bed was available.

Be aware that this post has been made after several Sangsom Sodas!

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sooooo, they make loads of ventilators, then where are all the nurses to operate all the new ventilators going to come from? Does the government think loads of nurses qualified to operate ventilators are just hanging around waiting for the call?

You train them. Concentrated specific training. Of course it could be done, if those in charge were prepared to get a grip and rise to the challenge. We're not talking about eroding their professional standards, or heaven help us professional status, we're talking about meeting a very particular challenge, we can worry about professional standards and status once it is done. If anything, rising to and meeting the challenge will strengthen their professional status in the future.

The same is true for manufacturing. Of course we could make the bloody things - they are not that complicated. If our manufacturing concerns met that challenge I suspect that they could have them rolling off the production lines within weeks.

Start by slotting the "Health and Safety" blokes!

5 hours ago, Ian Nagle said:

Thailands response... No more cock fighting. That will fix the problem for sure.

Most "chicken boxing" as she who must be obeyed refers to it seems to be a pretty informal affair. My Father in Law occasionally takes me as a source of Samsong and soda for him and his mates. I go in the spirit of domestic harmony. I can't see edicts from Bangkok having much effect.

6 hours ago, metempsychotic said:

So the bars are being kept open by the pm, onlyto keep the policy in gravy.

 

Yeah that sounds right. 

 

 

Exactly that. The people who own the big and lucrative "entertainment venues", and the police (and army) who collect from (and in some cases own ) them are prominent in the circles which put and maintained them in power. It really goes all the way up, from the copper who turns up at closing time for his B200 from your local bar wherever, to the Generals who own the really big "go go" bars and huge massage operations in the red light districts. This will be a very big factor in making that decision. 

2 minutes ago, toper3jr said:

Pay it(payut) has to think about ramifications of decisions?  WHAT ABOUT RAMIFICATIONS OF NOT TAKING DECISIVE MEASURES Quickly?

What about ramifications of Ministers lack of working together(obvious), posting stupid comments blaming others for the spread? BIG JOK PAY IT!!!

The ramifications which he has to consider are the effects upon those who own and benefit from the businesses which would have to close. Whole swathes of businesses would have to cease operations, and amongst their owners, and those who draw income from them, are many who are amongst those who put him in power - who own him politically.

4 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Today when she called she was informed that from the 14th they were not massaging and ferangs because of the fears of catching Coronavirus. 
 

"Not massaging" full stop, or just not massaging foreigners?

2 hours ago, madmitch said:

Just seen on Twitter the PM has stated entertainment venues won't be shut down for the time being.

 

So we can expect an announcement saying the opposite tomorrow!

The income from profits from ownership and fees for "informal licencing and security provision"  with regard to entertainment venues are a very significant part of police income. It is a huge sophisticated operation, with the money distributed up and down the chain of command, rather as prize money was in Nelsons Navy. 

It would be a brave man who shuts that down, especially as the loyalty and support of the police may be needed in the near future...