thaistocks

Agree with the just last post. No view, no sale.  But sea views can/is overrated...for sure vacationers want/adore ocean views. Long term residents (property buyers) can be bored with that over time even while they don't know this at the outset.  Lots of astute physiological studies have been done (mostly in the US) on what most people actually treasure most in views,  it's a valley with a lake and trees, a variety of green and beyond. Only a stale blue sea with blue horizon view is overrated in the long run, along with the more salty humid air...not least the nerdy touristy environment.

If you take the annual real estate taxes saved and invest this in a long say 5% annual return ETF fund (the SET has over many crisis average yieled almost 10% over say 20-25 years) at the end of 30 years, or 90 as the previous post mentions, you got compounded most of your money back, and then some, even if the lease at the end just expires.  Hence, from a pure finance/rational perspective its actually a wash and not the negative so many perceive at first look.

Some good comments, as usual most negative. Most all resorts around the world have traffic congestion, especially during the the high season!  I was in St. Tropez, considered one of France most exclusive resorts in April of 2016, (no not Easter) big traffic congestion at all times of the day getting out of there. The parking lot had holes, unfinished pavement.. just lousy.  Property prices are horrific, the food is unhealthy and overpriced by any standard,  taxes sky high.  The ocean not as nice as in Phuket.

Unlike most other resorts, Phuket real estate has no property taxes to speak of, and if you present value (PV) annual property taxes in other "more developed" resorts these amount to a huge amount! So factor that in.  Most of Phuket property have no bank mortgages' or other liens on it. Hence its very underleveraged vs. compared to other top resorts. This is important because if there ever is a global crisis of some sort people's property are all but paid for in Phuket,  no need for bail outs or forced sales. Again, compare that to other key tourist non-Thai destinations, which are chuck full of financial levearage.  Its true over the past couple of years there were traffic nightmares due to mega-infrastrucre undertaking,often delayed, but these have now been 90% completed..and traffic congestion is noticeable far less. Chalong being the last major bottle neck. The new airport is just about fantastic and so are the international direct flights.  Health care is tops with key and expanded major international hospitals and so are various top internationally rated English schools.

It is true there is an abundance of "nice houses" around, many have a sign up for sale. As these owners dreams of making a bundle, but in nor hurry. This has to do mostly with many expats coming here over the years and then only invest in their home or homes, thinking on making "good investment business". This is in good part because most have no clue to financial assets investing as an alternative, as they think bad about the SET (if you don't understand something you inherently don't like it) and so just think if "I build it, buyers will come"  and in the meantime one can see it, kick it, garden it.. and enjoy it. Too often lack of zoning laws, does not help.  Over time there has been a built up of homes, many are nothing to really get excited around. Walled up with a mini-pool and no view, often in a back alley.  Agreed those are in abundance and nearly unsellable.  But any special property with view and some real Wow factor, are moving and besides, renting well.

In most countries including Thailand smaller and mid cap companies make-up the bulk of the economy. That's a fact.

Yet, most institutional funds including ETF's only invest in the top tier stocks, so miss out on all the rest.  Further, most mid and small cap

companies grown on average faster then large more mature companies...while in Thailand often paying less in yields/dividends.  Big cap companies are over-analysed and over-chased by brokers and mega institutions alike, and by traders which want nice graphs and have huge liquidity. Hence often the best investor bargains are off the radar screens of most investors, evenwhile as a whole they make up the bulk of the economy. (not market cap), grow faster (on avearage) and here at least, pay nice dividends.

46 minutes ago, madmitch said:

I assume you are in the real estate business!

Nope not at all, read my user name.  :)

Yes, there likely is but these would most only invest in institutionally required high liquid top 50-100 SET stocks, hence exactly those which have run up already...while all but ignoring the rest which make some 70% of the Thai economy.  These have not moved much (yet!) as they usually catch up post an initial run up.   1.9% fee over 20 years is a bundle for sure, but if you make 10% per year during the same period its an exponentially if far, far bigger amount, especially compared to 1-2% interest in the Bank, taxed at 15%  vs. SET gains have no Thai income tax.  Low cost ETF's are all the rage of late because in good part they have done so well in the US.  No wonder, as that market roared up for years and years..and any money manager which prudently held cash reserves on hand was well, was left behind...evenwhile he/she took less risk.

2 1/2 years later after this topic was first pounded on,  since then: Phuket road new mega infrastructure is just about done.  The new Intl. Airport has opened with doubled capacity. The Chinese are coming in droves, some now to buy property...not least because Sydney and Melbourne are well, way over priced...and the Thai Baht currency is firm. The new mega Central multi billion Baht shopping center is about to open with fanfare -and not least the health and expanded hospital sector is just about fantastic. There are no to little property taxes here, the traffic has gotten better and at least to some extend the beach mafia has been cleaned up.  After some years of healthy consolidation, select properties with at least some views besides peace will re-surge...and many naysayers will miss it. Or worse get stuck in well overvalued other key global risky destinations like Toronto, Melbourne, Sydney and oh boy, London.

Transferring money outside Thailand is always a question of:  are you transferring funds into your own name, or to a third party. If you want to transfer money to another person or say a company (outside Thailand) and are known to your bank they will ask for some kind of bill or invoice, i.e. the reason for the transfer. If you transfer funds to your own name it should be a bit easier, within limitations.

But, When/if you transfer funds from a Thai brokerage account, and its from your name to your same name overseas, then there are no questions and its just about automatic, but few people know this here. Hence its very easy to transfer from most all Thai brokers to overseas, but not from Banks. It is what it is.

We understand the NGV buses new bid have been re-submitted are about to be awarded shortly. I still think CHO (1.81) has a good chance to get this mega-contract besides has many other good things brewing now, and so likely will show record revenues this and next year. This company's stock price has fallen from 4-5 Baht level 3 years ago- and is now an interesting turnaround stock, in my own view.

None seem to get the point here, or care: a competent local Thai company had the concession all wrapped up on competitive bidding, only to be muscled out.

What's really shameful of this whole NGV bus story is that a well qualified Thai listed company was awarded the concession on good merit, only to be muscled out later.  On page 4 of Cho Thavee's (CHO, 1.75) 2015 annual report the Chairman writes: "The company under joint venture has won the tender of NGV project..."  then on page 5 the President of CHO writes in its letter to shareholders: "However as you all have known, the NGV public transportation project...has been suspended therefore we need to take legal action against the government  agency further in 2016."

On page  74 of this same last annual report it further notes:   "The government agency announced the company has won the auction for the repair and maintenance of buses on July 27 2015.  Afterward, the company had received a canceling letter of the 489 unitsof natural gas (NGV) public transportation buses purchasing project contract.."

Phuket just in the past 2-3 days "Inclusion on the UNESCO Creative Cities listing for its gastronomic delights", ThaiVisa just today reports how BBC news thinks Thailand is among the 7th best places to live after retirement. Post the mega infrastructure projects completion here over the next 2 years, and the burnout of all those marginal homeowners posting here, Phuket will have a second wind. Watch see and learn.

Its exactly because of Pinot's point of view, shared by many here, that property ownership can make sense. Plenty want to come here, retire here and enjoy while "by God no, never invest anything"'; so the few that do can ha, realize nice rental income from those very naysayers. The key is to have a special and quiet place, not just a me too, "nie houe". In time that very bunch will have their ah ever so "safe" assets taxed back in their foreign countries regardless where they live, just like the US is setting the global trend on that of late. Mind you, one of the biggest property bust of all times was cooked up right in the US not so long ago.

Any property glut in Phuket is in good part because so many Expats come here from all walks of life and education and just build homes, buy land and condo's etc...without thinking of alternatives -or if these (homes) are needed to begin with. They have no real investor sense or education, call it the "revenge of the nerds": "We build and buyers will come" mentality. They own property because they can see it, kick it, admire it, brag to their friends...while paying no property taxes here, not because it necessarily makes investor sense! Result of their own doing so yes there has been a relative large (artificial) oversupply of average dwellings. Now that this is apparent, they like to kick on the perceived shortcomings of Phuket, vs. their own folly & mistakes besides lack of understanding regarding investor alternatives. Phuket still has many attractive reasons to live here and this is relevant to any property discussion. In time this glut in that segment will subside, as these expats burned themselves out.

As to Thai stocks just to squelch those nay sayers, at the current dire state today the SET index is still up some 40% over the past 7 years plus nice dividends, vs as for just one example Australia, where their index is stuck at similar levels today, during that same period. [Taking as a base 2008, just past the N. Atlantic induced global financial crisis i.e. cooked up by the developed country leader].

Yes, true currently the island is packed and full of tourists, so I can imagine parking is not easy there, just now. But then again how does this resolute with the statements that Phuket has peaked, tourists are coming far less and nobody loves this place anymore bla, bla.

Travel agents the world over regularly recommend tourists avoid Patong and book hotels elsewhere. "Phuket is fine, but don't go to Patong!" they tell their customers. Yet, when these tourists come here and despite all, they all want to go to Patong, evenwhile the place is "soo terrible".

Patong year after year is jam packed with all kinds of tourists, which when they go back home don't dare to say they spend much time there. It terrible but they all go there. Some of the most creative innovative places in the US, are also (as has been amply shown), some of the most avant guard places. Diversity breeds creativity.

Phuket has some of the best international schools anywhere in Thailand, and many more choices than even a few short years ago. It has great internet connection at most locations as well as Mobile Phone reach and 100% 3G-4G footprint. All this was severely lacking just a few short years ago, today taken for granted. The road to Phang Na is excellent which gives nature/beach/boat lovers a whole host of new alternative choices. Inflation in the hospitality industry the world over has been far above the rest of consumer inflation, so Phuket can't be singled out...except to those old/new timers which are still on the cheap, backpacking or on a shoe string. Yes, Phuket is no longer the cheap destination those would like it to be. The nostalgic times of the past are gone and yes PiPi island is a tourist trap to say the least, but some of the new, better, more developed ways along with the (new) international airport besides excellent health care and key infrastructure getting done deserves some objective praise. Besides, compare it to other places around the world -and re-appraise.

--I use the covered & secure with lifts Airport parking regularly and never have any problems finding a spot.

--Yes, the free bus maybe a few minutes but the walk to the terminal is not far at all, besides will be 2 min. -right across- when the new Airport terminal opens within 2-3 months. Soft opening is planned for next month?

--I live here for over 25 years and while the beaches are as busy/populated as never before, we don't find them dirty and the water is crystal clean at this time of the season, again more slanting on negativity.

--The expats have only themselves to blame for not checking out more investor options then just buying yet another plot, or condo or building a home on land they may not own correctly. Clearly no pitch here, only added value intelligence for what its worth...and to you maybe nothing.

Typical negatively slanted, by NamKanMan and more which seems to be the norm at this forum by so many.

While there is some truth, its sure not the full story. For one the global developing economies continue a prolonged lethargic lowest growth. This sort of caught up with the old guard tourists coming here; notably the collapse of the Russian currency & economy and all of EU being on the brinks. Hardly mentioned...this has nothing to with Phuket. The world has slowed down for some years now -and it cumulative effect is catching up.

The infrastructure issues are being broadly while never fully resolved likely mostly all over. The new Phuket Airport parking is great and the new Airport itself is being completed likely before this year end which will double capacity, as will various bypass/tunnel roads. Except for Chalong bypass which has just started. Hence Phuket traffic will likely improve as we can see at "Central Festival" which is an easy bypass now vs. a disaster 1-2 years ago when so many here stated it would flood and not solve the problem etc..again the example of over-negative. As to traffic: more all walks of people are taking mobile phone video clipps on bad driving and then posting these on Thai Facebook or other media..hardly available not long ago -and yes then action being taken. Just as most Van's now have their phone numbers listed on the back so to anybody can report bad driving to the owner/company. There is a new number to call 1158, to report any rogue driving, just as they are starting to confiscate cars by drunk drivers.

The island has no factories, many great pristine beaches easily accessible vastly cleaned up -or getting there. Phuket has been called the variety gastronomy of Thailand with its huge selection of many different restaurants, hardly expensive as compared to Western Europe, yet many just as good and/or with better service. Similar with Healthcare which purports a solidly growing retirement market. Retirees get an easy visa available at age 50 already, and pay no local or Thai taxes.

Yes there has been some overbuilding here on average on lower level housing, not least by expats whom are not very Thai investor wise. These only see an investment in property or real estate as viable -as they have no clue on interesting/valuable financial assets. Clear alternatives open to any foreign resident/investor here where many such choices pay high besides tax-favored regular dividends. Expats lack of more astute financial intermediation (savings/investment beyond property) has much to be desired and is a dire shortcoming by these, not a shortcoming of Phuket. And yet, dont' count on the local press to empower these.

We are all sorry to read the recent horrific news from Paris and now Belgium where they are on "highest alert". I do wonder sometimes why when something like this happens anywhere else in the developing world, most of EU and USA immediately issue highest travel alerts and recommend "not traveling there!" Regularly near-alarmist embassy releases' get send to anybody with their nationality and others stating to avoid traveling there, unless as they as they often state "its absolutely necessary". And the Western press routinely puts this on their front pages. Yet, we rarely see any alerts issued when its the other way around? USA increasingly has regular school movie theater and other public shootings; bombs are going off in Paris and other such places... Yet, no Western Embassies from there issues travel alerts? Am I missing something? Why is this and -what does this say? Is this not boarding on hypocrisy?

Similarly in other ways, when a large developed country stock drops in price. Example Apple computer stock which spend much of the year around $130. Then in early August dropped to 102, or -30%. Wow. Since then, the US stock market bounced back but only half so did this bellwether adored stock which is owned by more people than just about any other stock, worldwide. So well, underperforming. Yet most investors accept this, as well "its a great company". Agreed, but the fact is the fact, its been very volatile and has way under-performed of late. When a stock here in Thailand drops anywhere near this, its all narrowed down by western biz commentators: " oh well high risk developing country stocks...we told you to avoid that."

I've been taking Taxis in Bangkok for over 20 years, so to visit listed SET companies's management which I do on a regular basis. I can say I never had any troubles other then once when the AC went down and so had to change the taxi at no charge. I always tell them I want the meter but quickly add I tip well, which I do. I do not discuss or talk much while in the taxi, especially about politics!

Leading western Financial Press reports yesterday how Thai exports are falling "despite the Thai Baht's 9% depreciation this year". But then failing to point out that the Baht weakness just came in the past 3 months vs. the first 6 months of this year the Baht was one of the stronger global currencies, even rising a touch vs. the mighty US$. Much blame on the Thai economy is put on the current political transition, forgetting that China has dragged regional growth down more than anything, along with other economies not doing any better. Doom views prevail even while there are pockets of boom here, like the renewable energy sector where Thailand is a regional leader and corporate profits growing impressively. As always it's much of a market of stocks here vs. a stock market.

Pattaya46, just to correct: The site's database has over 251,033 GB of data. The website itself is 246,971 GB that would include the CMS. So the total size is almost 500,000 GB! There are +3,900 unique articles, regularly posted over time at the same site URL name, since April 1997. Uninterrupted. And well over 10,00 member forum posts. 98% of contributing members renew every year.

Following the ThaiVisa website rules, no sites are supposed to be mentioned here. The key is to find site(s) which are independent, professional and have the long on-location experience and reputation on qualitative insights through company visits and more, not just quantitative analysis from afar or graphs, which show the past but say nothing about what the companies' actually do, nor their valuation and future prospects, or what their reputation is etc...