IsaanAussie

I don't know if this is the same organic liquid fertilizer as the OP mentioned (back in 2008! Jeeze! It really is quiet around here, eh?!). But it's something I tried out last week, and so far seems to be working! Sounds a bit similar.

I ground up fish bones, prawn shells and any fish heads I had in my freezer (I usually keep them to make stock) in my blender then put them in a small barrel. With some blended fruit (sugar) and some sawdust and a little bit of water. I plan to leave it in there for two weeks...

So far, I have been giving it a little agitaion every day (burping the barrel) and surprisingly, the smell is sweet and not nasty at all.

I'm guessing the addition of sugar or 'Gut Numtarn' as the OP noted, helps keep the bad bacteria at bay, while feeding the good stuff. The container is sealed and the organic fertilizer is created. Voila!

OP asked: ''Does anyone have a clue what I'm talking about? I know it's really vague, but things are never clear in LOS. It looked very interesting.''

I'm guessing, they might have been making fish emulsion???

I am very interested in what sort of fertiliser you are attempting to make. I havent heard of this fermentation combination before. I have had of bones and shells being fermented anaerobically in vinegar to make foliar sprays for fruit trees etc...

But bones sugar and sawdust, you got my attention

How hard are those permits to get? People used to tell me that you could move pigs unless...... but the reality was the paperwork was easy to get and cheap. Same thing happened with the yearly excise tax approvals which we were told were so expense (40 baht for 3).

Has anyone tried to get the lumber movement approval?

Very hard to impossible. We are a national parks area and any hardwoods, teak etc have to be certifide plantation grown. Paper work starts when you plant the trees. Other trees like in a rice paddy you are supposed to get a forestry guy to see the tree before it;s cut down. If there is no paper work you go to jail. We have to pay a fee to transport the smoker wood to the factory. Locals make charcoal, but that is technically illegal and that can't be sold out side the 3 villages. Government turns a bit of a blind eye to the locals as this is how they have lived for a long time, but if anyone be it lumber or hunting trys to sell for profit you will go to jail. This year anyone found inside the national park on a motorbike and does not live local will lose the bike on the spot. Rangers and border soldiers are out and about at all times. Jim

Learn something new every day. Thanks, I cleared 12 rai years ago of maybe a hundred trees and always wondered why the "lumber" guy dragged them all off into the scrub to cut them up. TIT. Today you can buy a chainsaw not not one with a decent bar on it, that you have to buy separately. Same place, same day but different Bin!

Tattslotto, wow, now that was a while ago. I am pretty happy with this deal and the few returned favours that made it possible. The thing is rated to take up to 8" logs but that aint gonna happen with mine.

As a matter of interest the pellet maker is powered with another diesel. Talked about using one motor between th two but as the pellet mill uses a small electric motor anyway, and at that price I went for the second one as well.

In the process of buying a machine at the moment. Handles all sorts of biomass and a range of screen screens. Cuts in two stages, rough chip for the heavy stuff, then hammermill down to a 1mm screen if you want. 500Kg an hour 11KW Diesel electric start. About 1,300 USD.

IA At that price you oughta buy half a dozen and resell,a 10hp Kubota hand start stationary diesel is about $1300us.

Well Oz, there is a deal in it, so I am not revealing sources but if anyone wants a piece of the action I can see what I can do. Cannot guarantee the price will be quite so good.

And just when I thought the deal was pretty good, it got better. Fan and Cyclone included as well.

In the process of buying a machine at the moment. Handles all sorts of biomass and a range of screen screens. Cuts in two stages, rough chip for the heavy stuff, then hammermill down to a 1mm screen if you want. 500Kg an hour 11KW Diesel electric start. About 1,300 USD.

IA At that price you oughta buy half a dozen and resell,a 10hp Kubota hand start stationary diesel is about $1300us.

Well Oz, there is a deal in it, so I am not revealing sources but if anyone wants a piece of the action I can see what I can do. Cannot guarantee the price will be quite so good.

I have rerun the current prices and added the manufacturing cost to come up with 27 baht a kg for the fry blend, the most expensive. Substituting the alternate ingredients but at the same nutrient level I am aiming for about 21 baht. Or 420 baht a 20kg bag for fry feed. The others below that. Is that competitive?

In the process of buying a machine at the moment. Handles all sorts of biomass and a range of screen screens. Cuts in two stages, rough chip for the heavy stuff, then hammermill down to a 1mm screen if you want. 500Kg an hour 11KW Diesel electric start. About 1,300 USD.

How hard are those permits to get? People used to tell me that you could move pigs unless...... but the reality was the paperwork was easy to get and cheap. Same thing happened with the yearly excise tax approvals which we were told were so expense (40 baht for 3).

Has anyone tried to get the lumber movement approval?

Irrigator,

Where abouts are you. I am about start making Tilapia feed and need some guidance on formulation etc...Check the entry in Fish and Shrimp thread. There are five protein levels covering fry, fingerlings and a grow out for caged fish and two grow out ones for ponds. The real question is, is 30% protein enough?

Hopefully we should be running in a month and happy to supply samples.

By the way great description of your system

Isaanaussie

I think cashew is a resinous wood that has good insect defences, so I suppose it would be useful timber.

IA,That formulation looks the goods, as you say pricing would have to be updated.

The current best prices for main components I can buy at are

Rice Bran = 6 bt kg

soybean meal = 17.5 bt kg

fish meal = 25.5 bt kg

Agreed. The real answer is in using alternatives that arent being price driven by other uses. For instance, if I fertilise my pond properly from the pig sty I can push the protein content of duckweed up to over 40%. It has virtually no fibre and at that level can replace the soymeal. Fish meal is the same deal, I can use local trash fish and sun dry then or I can buy the fermented leftovers from a shell fish packing place near Rayong, either way a lot cheaper than the commercial stuff. There is always BSF larvae but I can find any around here.

But as with all things get it to work first and play around later. Many things I have been told and have read seem to suggest higher protein levels than 30%.

Check out the sausage shopping list attached. First Isaan release of all 13 flavours at Jims place. Preorder or buy on the day. My pork but someone elses magic. Read it through. My idea was to get to Jims for lunch and try a couple, few more for dinner and clean up trying the rest for breakfast.

Sausage Flyer.pdf

Isaanaussie

Hi Fish Farmers,

I am looking for some advice. I am starting to produce pelletised feed for my pigs and a range of other products. I have been asked by a friend if I can make floating feed for his Tilapia. The answer is yes I can but the components required seem to vary a lot. The attached is the latest information I have and am intending to use. Can anyone comment on the formulations or point at better information?

Tilapia feed.pdf

The pricing is a few years old so it will have to be reviewed.

Thanks for any help

Isaanaussie

Edit: My ultimate goal is to produce organic feed and use alternate materials [rpduced on farm. Hopefully I can produce a good feed at competitive prices.

When I retired, my friends told me that I would be bored to tears. They were wrong. I enjoy being lazy and although I have many things I could be doing, I prefer to just relax. We have a small weekend house (very small) built overlooking our pond. I like to sit on the front porch and watch the sun go down over the mountains. I'd enjoy staying there overnight once in a while but there is no electricity available. The generator interrupts the peace and quiet.

The other day the wife and I went shopping for some plumbing fittings to get more of the pigs drinking system installed. The girl at the shop asked why I hadn't gone home to Australia like all the other farangs? I was a bit puzzled and she explained that there had many many farangs build homes in our area in the last few years but they all end up getting bored and taking the new families with them back home.

I think living on a farm offers interests that dont have to be physical, you are watching stuff grow not in front of the TV. For me, doing things around the place is great fun. New projects include a cold room to hang carcasses and getting into pelletising our organic fertiliser and pig feed. Bored? No don't have time to think about that...

Some things are sent to try us, others to put us at risk. But for the Aussie Battlers amongst us, the thought will always be "It THAT all you Got?" muffled fart...

Today we had the press descend on us again, both local print and TV. Not to do with the farm but with us as a couple. After a day or so of thinking about it it isnt about the routine stuff that has to happen it is about what motivates you to get out of bed and start selling what you make, grow and add value to. (By the way that is usually around 4:30 and I wish it was brewed not instant coffee.)

I am motivated by my wife and have been for over ten years. She is why I am here. I enjoy the pigs and watching everything we get done reduce the workload. Oldest S I like my few quiet hours every day on the pitchfork turning compost.

What do I like best? Got to be the whole 9 yards...

Hey Guys,

Noticed a South African latex plant up for auction. Well wihin the reach of Australian hospital eye surgery patient I am sure, maybe for new chopper owners and almost for gun fight referees. Surgical gloves and condom lines included. Maybe the BAAC would fund the purchase for a collective buy?

Hey Jake,

Hold onto the dream. I have meet so many people that simply threw their dreams away. Guys that really thought they had found Utopia without cost. Found a mouldable haven where they very want would be done for a few baht. Your immediate future is great, new child in a few months. What's really important? You have it already, how well you can build on it is as the Thais say, "Up to you."

What do I like doing best? That is an extremely difficult question to answer for me. I have sat here with my morning coffee staring at it for an hour, and I still havent got a clue!

Now you know exactly where you are WTFAW. F troup and all, arh Thailand, what a mystery, never an answer...

Perhaps we all should take a breathe and have a look at the combination of things that have changed here and those that havent. Firstly, the farming communities are becoming more materialistic and require higher incomes. First it was fridges and TV's, then mobile phones and now tractors and pickup trucks. Ten years ago the same hard working farmer could get pass on a few thousand baht a month by selling a few bags of rice and living on the land. Now he has repayments to meet and needs more than pocket money each day. 300 baht is after all only $10.

The bit that hasnt changed is the need to establish and maintain face. The young Thai guys have always been given the period of grace where nothing is expected of them. If was explained to me years ago that up until 26 they could do whatever they liked. After that they were expected to be thinking family and housing of their own. To me it is the Peter Pans from this group that are causing the labour gap. With brothers and sisters away working they simply do not need to ever grow up.

So you have the aging population of farmers being subsidised by elder children working in the cities and returning less often to help on the farm. A lazy bunch of youngsters who have everything they want without lifting a finger. Net result, fewer people working the land and the seasonal nature of monocrop farming means everyone needs extra labour at the same time. Those without land or very small holdings become the only choice, why shouldn't they seize the chance to ask for more money?

Rice bran will be available in feed stores somwhere near you for sure. It is a prime ingredient for on farm feed mixers. There are several grades available, for bokashi get the cheapest you can.

Bone meal is harder, I haven't tried in Sisaket city yet but cannot get it here. If you can get bones then you can make your own, by burning or broiling them and then fermenting in vinegar.

Another way to up the pH value is to add biochar. Carbonised rice hulls will lift the pH. as will adding lime.

Well it looks like the slide in prices has started. Attached is the latest swine associtaion regional price list.

Personally I expected the drop to start early this year, hopefully it is just a blip.

Pig Prices 4 June 2012.pdf

IA

The difference is decomposition or fermentation, aerobic or anaerobic. Fermentation is more difficult. Bokashi bran is easy using it as a compost accelerator is also easy. The real problem is you cannot just dump in more stuff and close the lid like you can a compost heap fermentation can change to putrification if the micro biology goes wrong. Get it right and you have sauerkraut wrong and "Get this smelly sh1t out of here!"

Too many people look at composting and aeration as almost needing to have an air pump blowing through the pile all the time. Rubbish. You fish survive without as fan "dissolved" oxygen in water, same in compost.

Also forget the special buckets and devices. Anaerobic means without oxygen, completely is impossible and not needed. If you want to make an anaerobic heap just mix it on the floor and cover it with a tarp.

Sorry for you Yangsters but I cant wait to tell the guy over the road. Dont get mad get even 555555, hey I'm human!