IsaanAussie

Hey WF,

Give Pepper Soup a break, I doubt he is a troll. Probably more likely to be referring to his own current circumstances or an ugly memory. If my memory serves me correctly he didnt respond last time when challenged so he is either, if I am wrong, asleep under the bridge, or correct, hiding under the bed. If he does come out then maybe he will decide to risk all and join us on the day, in an advisory capacity of course.

Farming Day 4 is bound to be a success, put these nonsense issues behind you. Why should we worry, I have been insulted by experts and remain unimpressed.

For those who are thinking of attending, consider this! Here is a man that keeps cows just so their manure can be fed to the worms. How integrated and sustainable is that?

I guess I identify with farmer B

In normal times credit card companies charge 2-3%/month

My wife and I were owed some money we lent out interest free but it became clear we were not going to be repaid anytime soon so we ended up doing a written agreement with interest and amazingly the following year we were repaid in full.

As that borrower now had proved themselves we made a new agreement for the future.

It seems if there is no interest there is also no incentive to repay so borrowers don't repay. They actually seem to respect the lender more if interest is being charged.

We have since helped with the deposit on a tractor and for a Tuk Tuk. We give those borrowers all our ploughing and transport work so the benefit goes both ways. Both those borrowers now have better ways of making money.

We have a few others whom we have helped but all for specific verifiable reasons and with proper repayment plans.

I think that it is important to be able to see the benefits a borrower would get from a loan before making one if only because by doing so repayment is more likely. If something is mutually beneficial then surely it is a good thing.

I congratulate you on your good management and risk assessment. Unfortunately I have heard of too few cases where this applies.

Here's a sure-fire recipe, turned an in-parts-4m-down house excavation site of bare clay into a garden paradise in less than eight months. On all the below don't get too obsessive about chemical issues, but do avoid any obvious dangers.

Find a local chicken farm and arrange to take away their chicken manure. Other shit will work as well I'm sure, but probably best to avoid human waste.

Find a source of cardboard or other sheet paper waste - newspapers work fine.

Do the same with a sawmill to get their sawdust.

Obtain the plants you want to grow, or start off seedlings in liter+ sized cups of good soil mix. Buy bags of good soil mix, about say 10% of what you'd need if you were laying down 3 inches over the whole area.

If you don't already have them, buy a digging spade, a gardening trowel, and a long "straight crow bar" IOW iron spike, as heavy as you can work with, for me, five foot long was right.

Either yourself or through hired labor get it transported to your site by the truckload - do the chickenshit last, and only when you are ready to start on the below. It's OK to do small areas at a time if you need to, but do all three layers at once for any given area.

First lay down the paper or cardboard sheeting, overlapping so no parts bare clay.

Then the chickshit, at least 3-4 inches deep. If you have any other organic waste (stuff you would compost) put it down first, but usually this is the hardest to come by in bulk.

Put the sawdust on top, at least 8 inches deep.

Clear the sawdust a bit to mark planting holes at your desired spacing, use the spike to pierce though to the underlying clay - through the paper layer. Put a shovelful of soil in the hole, let it mound a bit above the top level of the sawdust. Tamp it down a bit with the flat of the shovel, and use the trowel to insert your plants into the middle of that.

Instant garden! Be sure to keep them well watered, especially at the early stages until their roots have penetrated the bottom layers and started breaking up the clay.

If you don't have the plants, you can start with everything but them and the soil and come back anytime within six months and everything will be that much more ready for planting, but it really isn't necessary to wait no matter what people will tell you about the roots being burned by the manure.

Don't worry about adding worms, believe me the place will be crawling with all kinds of beneficial wildlife under the paper layer.

Well said and done. Too hard for me though, I would be needing some crow bar accesories, a handle and a hose and a very large air compressor.

Just kidding, worms do not live in clay in my experience. Give a no dig garden a crack.

And I agree Khonwan with your definition. Two "collectors" armed with pistols who arrive in bell helmits on a large motorbike, as unannounced as possible early in the morning, certainly defines both menace and loan sharking. To be a loan shark you must have teeth and be prepared to use them or just be ignored.

Test it? A friend sent me a story about a guy that bought a taser for his wifes birthday. It ran on 2 AAA batteries and he wondered how it was possible to produce the bezillion volts the packaging stated. So he had two choices on how to test it out, the dog or himself. Supposedly a one second burst would be enough to have most people disabled. Since he liked the dog this idiot gave himself a jolt on the leg. Strangely the muscles in his hand contacted and he didnt let go until the batteries were flat, his house was trashed, had he awoke in a fetal position on the floor and a fecal position in his trousers. Test it? I'd love to see that.

Most organic repellants are made from essential oils. Here you could try chilli, garlic and lemongrass to make up a spray. Chuck some in a blender half full of water and mince it up. Let it sit for a day and then strain off the fluid. Spray that on the surfaces as close as you can get and see what happens. If the smell is strong enough your bees should start to leave. If you cant get close then point a fan at them and spray the mixture in front of the fan.

The topic of conversation is about working in Thailand,what about work permits ????

People are giving valuable infoand admitting to working ????

Have you been to a meeting? Do you know what is discussed at these meetings? If the answer is no, I suggest you restrict your posts to subjects you know something about.

Well put Bob straight to the point - But as subtle as a house brick in the face.

I am sure what our Pepper Soup friend meant to write was:

The topic of conversation is about FARMING in Thailand, what about FARM permits ????

People are giving valuable infoand admitting to FARMING ????

Well I suppose with those questions and answers "ground" into me, I can modify an old joke to suit the topic.

A woman walked into the barn on a diary farm wanting to buy milk. The farmer was hard at work milking a three legged cow and the amazed woman said, "That poor cow only has three legs! Isn't it cruel to leave her like that?" The farmer responded, "What would you have me do, put her down? She is the best milker I have." "How did she loose the leg?" "I told you, she is my best milker, surely you don't expect me to eat her all at once?"

The issue of repayments is not considered by most Thai people around here. They have no idea what to do to improve their lot or undertake any form of budgeting. They just keep doing what they always have and hope for the best.

Over the last few years more and more chilli is being grown in our village between rice crops. The return appears good but the costs are spiralling upwards and unless the grower is in early the market price falls quickly as more becomes available. So they then sun dry ripened chilli and store it until the fresh supplies run low and a new wave of pickup truck buyers comes along.

The few baht extra per Kg for the dried crop is already consumed by the moisture lost, hence the weight and further eroded by the accumulated interest costs. I have tried to explain this to several people who I thought would understand but all I get back is they think of it as the funds borrowed plus a mystery amount they call the tip. How much will it be? No idea, the lender will tell them "later".

Many Thais just walk away or even hide when the bank collectors come around. The loan sharks guys are a bit harder to shake off, but the point is there is little if any understanding by the general public of how bad their debt is. Many just know that they are maxed out at BAAC.

Going back to the OP's question after thinking about it again, and considering the circumstances in my area may well be different to his, neither Farmer A nor B is actually doing the community much good in the long run. At least not here in this village.

If there is anyone out there seriously reading this thread then listen to this guy J67. This is where the money will be made in the future, in this level of detail, right in those first few days when all your sat on losses happen.

Compost my son, compost. A drier mix will produce more fungal microbes. You can also use worm castings or the residual compost from the worm beds. EM and a little fish extract in an aerated compost tea as a soil drench is another to try to "fix" the nitrogen issue. Anything to get the microbes working with the roots.

Khonwan,

I think both are doing what they believe is best in their circumstances. Since the BAAC is basically not lending at the moment there really is no great choice for most people other than to accept whatever terms they can get. It is that or go hungry.

I would love the chance to get a bit of farmer B's action at 3% if I could. Times are tough and farming is like any other business, it needs cash flow to survive and capital to grow. So if there are any Farmer B's out there give me a yell.

Mathematics is not a strong point with most Thais here let alone budgeting and economic analysis. I went to a BAAC meeting a few months back where most of the lending groups and individuals were completely borrowed out past their individual and group limits. I know someone who thought they had approval to borrow against Chanote land from BAAC only to be told the maximum they could have was 50,000 baht. With the recent floods still stinging the national pocket it is hard for me to see when the brakes will be taken off.

Isaan Aussie

I have following cost:

* Gestration feed 3600 Bath/Sow

* Lactation feed 2600 Bath/Sow

* Medicine 400 Bath

* Insemination 400 Bath

Total 7000 Bath divided on 10 piglets = 700 bath/piglet (4 week old piglet).

Add another 400 bath for raising them up to 16kg.

Labor and electricity are not included.

Good numbers, I agree the detail numbers are close to my own, but at the moment my productivity is not good. Lost a litter and a few returns means the average survival rate per sow is way down. I am also carrying three boars at the moment as an additional cost.

However congratulations on your average of 10 per litter, that is above industry average as far as I know.

Take a minute to check out your own numbers on cost of production. Heres mine as a guide:

Cost of piglets. Based on my breeding stock numbers that have to be cared for and costs absorbed, currently every weaned piglet costs me 1500 baht on average. Todays national average price for weaned piglets remains at 1300 baht +/- 48 baht per Kg.

Feed costs. I use a 5 step feed system from weaning to 100 kg. For creep feed I use starter with milk powder added to boost the protein and help gut development, as well as save considerable money per bag instead of using a creep formulation. In summary each pig average an FCR of 2.65 at market weight, which mean they eat 265 kg of feed during raising at an average cost of 13 baht per kg. 3,445 baht per pig.

With most of the country now holding a 50.5 baht per kg live weight price, a 100 kg pig returns 5,050 baht. So with no other costs included I would be making 105 baht per head for every pig I raise out to market weight. If I bought the piglets that would improve to 305 baht.

Interested in anyone elses comparision.

These ideas exchanges require a good deal of thought. It is all much easier if the mental wheels are greased a bit. So when a disaster like this happens it could mean there is no oil, more importantly no Leo! God help us all, no Leo, no lies.... forget the wormfarm, no reason to live!

About time to light this topic up again. I am looking for volunteers who are willing to try my new organic fertiliser. I can supply a few kilos by post to the first five that PM me. All you have do is tell me if it is any good. I need geniune comments so please the stuff wont cost you anything but I expect the feedback.

Falang Cow-Nok... for the foreign unwashed one..

Arh, another one close to the heart. They call me, farang kee moo. Actually today has been a long tough one and I could use a shower.

Love it, well done, but I would be trying to integrate my cows as I try withall farming things (sold the real cows some time back) so they would have to contribute more... I would probably go for run, jump, fight, <deleted>, and then, wheel a barrow, and drive a truck!

Did you Know that Thai cows speak a different language to farang cows? In Oz they say Moooo... here they say Bayyyyy... amazing. Now I have never heard a buffalo speak in Oz, but here they definitely say Quay (spelling?) anyway pronounced the same as the bridge over the river.

Yes, the current prices are below cost of production for most people and remains a mystery to me. Given the Ag giants are getting out of pig farming might explain most of it but even that seems strange. As the big guys are also in the feed business and that is a way to reduce your costs, surely more people will turn to mixing their own feeds. I have started making a nano EM which improves FCR and reduces smell and am hopeful that I can start using raw materials to produce my own feed. A way off yet but now looking more possible.

An old Italian friend of many years ago, described the hard times he was going through as tightening his belt to the Mussoulini hole. Buckle up boys.

Thanks aussiedom and Crushdepth for the comments.

Aussie, I haven’t researched much about the Blue Claw Shrimp because the Thai gf put in limited numbers just to ‘see what would happen’.

They were tasty though.

Crushdepth, some really good information there, some excellent links, thanks for taking the time to add to this post.

Just something to mention that is related to Farming is the spread of an invasive pest known as the Golden Apple Snail.

Ref: http://www.qm.qld.go...ugs/Apple+Snail

You might know it as that friendly snail that crawls up and down inside the glass of your aquarium, but when released into the wild, it becomes an invasive pest species.

Eggs in the Rice Field

Ref: http://www.brrd.in.t..._animal_07.html

This pest snail is responsible for the wide spread dissemination of some of the rice fields in Thailand.

To quote from the Ecological Society of America’s extract from a Department of Ecology/Limnology, Lund University, Sweden study http://www.esajourna...10.1890/03-3146

We investigated the effects of the golden apple snail (which) has invaded large parts of Southeast Asia during recent decades. … the continuing aggressive invasion of this exotic species are detrimental to the integrity and functioning of wetland ecosystems, and to the services these provide in Southeast Asia.

Eggs at the Fish Farm

So have no qualms about destroying any eggs that you might find. Not the nicest thing to say but it is really just part of a natural pest control without the use of chemicals.

.

These snails are a valuable resource for protein. Local Thais eat them and some people sell the meat. However I tend to agree with David. Last year my pond became infested with the things so after some research I managed to get some chemical concoction which would kill the snails but not harm the few fish in the pond. Mind you they did a great job of cleaning up the last of the water lettuce crop. It took two goes but now all I have is shells, thousands of them.

Hi all. I am living in southern Thailand with my wife whose family have land. I asked if I could build a small chicken farm, and they said yes. I don't know the 1st thing about chickens, but I would love to have say 20-40 chickens for thier eggs and meat. How much would it initially cost for me to set this up? Any information would b greatly appriciated.

Thanks

Hey KC,

If you want the real deal of chickens talk to the man "andycrosby" a Thaivisa member, a personal friend and a thorough Gipsy. If he cant set you straight then bears have stopped using the forest as a toilet and the Pope is really a Protestant.

Send him a PM or try his website thai-farm.com

When I bougth a bag of Global House compost I tried to make tea too. Put about 3 kg in a cheesecloth bag, added 400g sugar and 8-10 gallons of water. Hookd up my trusty aerator (aquarium pump) and presto-- no bubbles indicating any microbial activity. Oh well-- it is a decent mulch. That's all.

Don't be too quick here. Most of the bubbles that come from this sort of mix are actually methane or rotten egg gas. They are anaerobic gases, like farts, the bad guys. Go buy a bottle of molasses at the feed store not Villa (80 baht 5 litres) and a 1 litre pot of EM for 50 baht. Local store will have some form of bran get some of that, the cheapest they have. Now you have your "bacteria" and "fungus" and their food. Mix all that together in your tank and turn on the bubble machine.

Next comes the big question, what are you going to use this brew for? A soil drench, root growth promoter, or foliage feeder, or lots of other things?

Go back to the start. Is the compost bacteria or fungal dominant? That is, does the bag of compost you bought meet your needs?

I apology if I seem to be on my high horse here but this is something that I have spent years trying to firstly even understand, and secondly, control the outcome. When I make compost I push it one way or the other to suit my need, bacteria or fungus, or even both. The moisture content here is key. When I brew teas, the time it takes to grow a bacteria population is much shorter than that for fungus.

Isaan Aussie

David,

Congratulations on a great topic presentation.

IA

I am still not able to confirm our attendence but would suggest to others that these meetings have been very helpful information exchanges and not hard work at all. This one is not to be missed for anyone interested in worm farming or using the products on your gardens. Get there if you can one and all.

I have two banks of three stage compost boxes (total 9 cubic metres) as well as worm beds. I use both types of compost to brew aerated teas and drenches.

The thing that has always tricked me is the store bought stuff is sold in plastic bags which allows the compost to turn anaerobic given time. Always check the date of packaging to make sure it is fresh. When you open the bag check the smell.

In the case of worm castings the product is stable and can be stored in a plastic bag. To me thermophillic compost should be used as soon as you see the insects in it not after it is fully decomposed.

Never let any compost dry out fully as not only will you lose most of the bacteria and fungus but it is difficult to rewet and you need to add a wetting agent.

I have just started using nano EM, rice bran and soybean meal to turn my pig manure compost into organic fertiliser. First ten bags ready to go into the new veggie patch and I am keen to brew some up.

Anyone wishing to try some real compost, send me a PM.