IsaanAussie

These char ovens/gasifiers. Can they be set up to burn the gas that they are producing? Do they produce enough to become self sustaining?

Yes, almost. The closest I have seen was a drum on its side with a metal plate welded across near the bottom creating two chambers. The top chamber is crammed full of wood and has a chimney that comes out the top and then down where it enters the bottom chamber it narrows and becomes a burner. You light a small fire in the bottom chamber and then close the drum up. As the gas is given off the wood in the top it passes into the bottom where it ignites and so the process go on until all the gas is used up. The pictures I saw had a collection point in the chimney were the wood alchol was drawn off.

What are you on about.....you listen to too many wives tales.

Our land is chanote titled.....they will not be pulling anything down.

Because....there is a way about most things.......although we did not get a build permit or permission.....we had the electric connected before we even built and we now have an address book.

samaiam, not old wives tales plan law of usage. Charnote is not an open tile to do as you wish. Permission to build needs to be obtain from what ever Government agency controls the land. With charnote the controlling agency is not the local Government, but the lands department in BKK. Just because the wifes 2 cousin works in the Amphor office and says everythings OK doesn't mean the Amphor has control of the land. Believe me if the Government or some one with pull wants a building gone, it's gone. I have land thats zoned industrial and had to get 3 different agencys to approve it, guy next door put in a gas station, no permission. Knocked down before he finished. Jim

Definitely not a one eyed statement Jimbo. Well put.

These char ovens/gasifiers. Can they be set up to burn the gas that they are producing? Do they produce enough to become self sustaining?

That is the whole idea. The thermal efficiency can vary quite markedly depending on design and use.

............. If no one else is up for it then I will anti up again. Topic composting and the use of EM probiotics and whatever has happened since now. .............. The message is simple, lets keep it running. Sorry I couldnt make it this time but reliability and Thai labour do not always match, pigs first, such is life.

Come on, someone. I will give you a week then announce the next date at my place. Tentatively, before we all get busy with the rice season start, lets say early June?

IA I have PM'd you, but there are others who are giving thought to hosting the next meeting, so no need to jump the gun just yet. Everyone agreed it would be good to continue with such meetings, but early June would be too early I think as several who were at the meeting Sunday will be away then - late June early July seemed more popular.

Hi IA and others,

it now looks like those whom I thought may be able to host the next meeting cannot for one reason or another, so the floor is open to others who may wish to or to IsaanAussie who has graciously suggested he could do it again at his place.

Cheers

WF

The first meeting was really just a convenient place that most could justify attending hoping to see/learn something different. My operation has moved on towards self sufficiency and sustainability. Can I show the original participants something new, absolutely.

Our second meeting was closer to the reality most live, at AA1's, investment, patience and a field of ready to go rubber.

Third meeting more into agrotourism opportunities and the fourth some serious worm farming capacity.

So where to now?

My personal hope is we move towards commercial outcome. How the hell do we turn all this thought, effort and funding into a sustainable income base. Our Thai better halfs all have families and they have expectations of us.

If there is anyone amid our small network that has the keys to success here, not by bringing constant earnings in, but by doing it here, then please stand up and share your knowledge with those of us struggling to reach the bottom line.

Planet Earth to Major Tom, hello hello. Oh my, what have we carbon based organisms become? Humans or humus?

Ultimately? Same same...

OK, right here,right now. Come and look. My land treated with CRH has grass standing at two feet high inside two weeks. Forget the future carbon credits and the rest of the BS, carbon sequestering works.

Try having a look at this

http://horon.en.alib...griculture.html

I am waiting on a price but it seems that it will handle everything I need and more. I am looking at the 800 model.

Aussie, I would be interested in a cooker, but preferably one without a fan, to make outside use easier.

Hoping to have a unit here next month from Vietnam. The fan this uses can be run from mains or a motorcycle battery so portability really isnt an issue. It is top lit updraught in operation. Will post some pictures when available. Idea is to localise production.

There is a lot of information of a side draught unit that was built by the Asia Institute of Technology. It consists of the gasifier, a gas burning chamber and a series of cooking outlets where the hot gases do the work. That is a top feed unit that can be refuelled and has the capacity to be used for large catering, like schools etc... There are plans for that around somewhere on the net.

CRH contains two important elements for the soil, carbon and silica. Rice hulls rot slowly because of the lignin coating. It is the lignin that pellet making machines use as the binder. CRH in manure based compost is brillant because the carbon reacts with the ammonia and traps the nitrogen. No smells and higher nutrient value. The micrtobes in the compost then convert the nitrogen into a plant usable form. At least that is my understanding..

Well WF, it would seem that the surroundings rate pretty highly, impressive garden. So who is next guys? Who has something of value to add to our collective knowledge? Where and when?

If no one else is up for it then I will anti up again. Topic composting and the use of EM probiotics and whatever has happened since now. Things have moved on at the Aussie battlers farm but some things remain the same. Today that same sow stood in the same spot and pissed into the same watering pot as Bergen photographed last time.

The message is simple, lets keep it running. Sorry I couldnt make it this time but reliability and Thai labour do not always match, pigs first, such is life.

Come on, someone. I will give you a week then announce the next date at my place. Tentatively, before we all get busy with the rice season start, lets say early June?

You are right the forecasts can be a bit misleading. I tend to believe Billy Connelly when he said once, "If you want to know what the weather is like, take a look out the F@#king window!"

Sorry I couldnt make it yesterday. I hope everyone had a good time. So when is the next one, who is the host and where is it to be?

Hi, my name is Luc Dierickx and I am a homeroom teacher in Phuket, EP4. We, my wife and I, want to move to an ohter place in thailand and Sisaket is one of the options. Please could you guide us.

1. Head south on Thep Kasattri Rd towards Thalang Rd 110 m

2. Take the 1st right on to Thalang Rd 180 m

3. Take the 1st right on to Soi Rommanee 140 m

4. Turn right onto Dibuk Rd 150 m

5. Take the 1st left on to Thep Kasattri Rd 500 m

6. Continue onto Thep Krasattri 11.6 km

7. At the roundabout, take the 2nd exit onto Thep Krasattri/Route 402 heading to ./Thalang//Phang Nga Continue to follow Route 402 30.6 km

8. Slight left onto Thep Krasattri/Route 402 Continue to follow Route 402 5.9 km

9. Continue onto Route 4 5.1 km

10. Slight right to stay on Route 4 (signs for /Phang-nga//Surat Thani) 19.9 km

11. Slight left onto Thanon Phet Kasem/Route 4 (signs for /Phangnga//Krabi) 1.6 km

12. Slight left to stay on Thanon Phet Kasem/Route 4 (signs for /Phangnga//Krabi) Continue to follow Route 4 10.0 km

13. Turn right onto National Hwy No. 415/Route 415 (signs for /Suratthani//Krabi) Continue to follow Route 415 21.8 km

14. Turn right onto Thanon Phet Kasem/Route 4 550 m

15. Take the 1st left on to Route 4118 (signs for ./Phanom) 45.4 km

16. Turn right onto Route 401 54.3 km

17. Turn left onto Route 41/AH18/AH2 (signs for /Chumphon) Continue to follow AH2 472 km

18. Keep left at the fork 900 m

19. Keep left at the fork 14.1 km

20. Keep right at the fork 1.5 km

21. Keep right at the fork 1.2 km

22. Keep left at the fork 47.1 km

23. Take the ramp to 35//Samut Songkhram 130 m

24. Keep right at the fork to continue towards Route 35 110 m

25. Keep left at the fork, follow signs for 35//Samut Songkhram 190 m

26. Keep right at the fork and merge onto Route 35 30.9 km

27. Keep left at the fork 51.9 km

28. Continue onto Chalerm Maha Nakhon Expy (signs for /Bang Na//Din Daeng) Continue to follow Toll road 11.5 km

29. Keep left at the fork and merge onto 6.3 km

30. Continue onto Don Muang Tollway Partial toll road 28.0 km

31. Exit onto Route 1 Partial toll road 74.0 km

32. Continue onto Mittraphap Rd/Route 2/AH12 44.4 km

33. Keep left at the fork 57.2 km

34. Take the 24 exit towards /Buri Ram 270 m

35. Continue on the ramp and merge onto Route 24 39.4 km

36. Slight right to stay on Route 24 (signs for /Ubon Ratchathani) 14.2 km

37. Continue straight to stay on Route 24 (signs for /Buri Ram//Ubon Ratchathani) 73.9 km

38. Slight right onto Route 24/AH121 (signs for ./Chaloem Phrakiat) Continue to follow Route 24 64.8 km

39. Continue straight to stay on Route 24 104 km

40. Turn left onto Route 2111 (signs for ./Phrai Bueng) 7.0 km

41. Turn right onto . 3014 4.3 km

42. Turn left to stay on . 3014 2.1 km

43. Turn right towards . 3004 2.2 km

44. Turn left onto . 3004 1.3 km

45. Turn left to stay on . 3004 350 m

46. Take the 2nd right to stay on . 3004 1.9 km

47. Slight right 700 m

48. Turn right 950 m

49. Turn right 450 m

You are now in Si Sa Ket Thailand

It's a long trip, best take a car.

Hope this helps.

Now voted forum clown 2012,

The gasifiers are certainly interesting. I've been reading about the small units, could fit in very well here, save a lot of time and money buying gas/charcoal. If you've got any for sale let me know, I'll swap you for a pair of gloves .

This is the unit we've built http://biocharprojec...rl-frogner-phd/

The first run produced char, but also lots of smoke, I think the rice husks might be too fine and not allow enough air. I'll try it again with bamboo offcuts.

The compost you describe sounds good, but we have about three rai and I'm too lazy to do all the turning. My thoughts were to do everything on site, adding the biochar/manure then growing the legumes/NFTs and just chopping growth, creating humus layer.

The rice husks are just fine. The smoke is the result of the burning of gases coming from the husk. My burner, not stove, is a simple kero drum and a cement pipe. I pile 10-15 bags of rice hulls around the drum once a very small fire is alight inside. Got some pictures somewhere and some details to make one up including the smoke arrester. I am too lazy to worry about that!

Turning compost and moving it from box to box is a few hours a day for me, every day. My compost "in progress" totals around 6 cubic metres. Why do I do it? Because the sales cover more than ten per cent of my pig feed bill. Lots of alternate methods though where you dont need to turn it. I have tried a few but none produce the results anywhere near as quickly.

The gasifier stoves I have got an interest in come in 3 sizes, the smallest being 6inches in diameter and has a price tag under 1,500 baht. Now, they produce a lovely blue flame and definitely no smoke. They are supposed to allow about 45mins cooking time per fill and the temperature is regulated by the small fan speed setting.

Forgive me if I am wrong but this would only seem to be adding to the problem of smoke haze and global warming. Does it have a place in sustainable agriculture.

Well actually yes it does have a place in sustainable agriculture. If you burn your rice husks under your fruit trees the trees benefit.

If you want to reduce the smoke you can fit a collar on the chimney and fill it with sawdust.

Hi Jim, I have to say having met you and you telling me your life story over a beer, If you decide to write a book Id buy it. Your a true gent, god bless you.

Thanks for that Andy, will catch up soon, unfortunatly I am back in OZ till the end of May. Cataracts and have to say I should have had the ops in BKK, but too late now. See you all later. Jim

All is revealed at last. Now we know why you never needed an excuse to get blind. Interested in the new reason once the mince pies are done. Good luck, oh and, take the contacts out first mate.

A friend once described his optical operation as circumcision of the eyeballs. Maybe if you ask to keep the growths afterwards, you could make a tobacco pouch out of them?

Just bringing up an old post. IA, good to hear you've had success with the biochar. I've just built a gasifier, mainly for bamboo offcuts, but I will probably build a stove for rice husk.

Last year we were paying B3.5k for a small six wheel truck of 'gap dum'. The rice mill is charging 90 satang a kg for rice husks, so buying the ready made stuff is probably cheaper.

We tried to get another truckload, our regular supplier wanted B5.5k a truckload and we haven't been able to find anywhere else. I'm guessing the high price is seasonal, hopefully it will drop at harvest time. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if demand is increasing.

I'm interested in simple strategies for using biochar. When mixed with chook manure it absorbs all the odor and (I guess) this retains the nutrients. Does this mean it's better to use with fresh manure that has a stronger amonia smell? We have sheep and chook manure already bagged, to save work I was hoping to mix and spread on site, rather than composting it and then rebagging.

Ploughing in is difficult, so I was thinking to have a layer, then grow NFT/legumes and 'chop and drop', to add organic matter. Any thoughts?

Arh, me ol' boxing glove.

CRH is basically carbon so when you add it to manure the reaction between the N from the ammonia and the C from the biochar locks up ther nitrogen, less emission more NPK, less smell. My compost process is multistage. Raw manure, rice straw and hulls are added daily and always turned in the stage 1 box. That is covered with biochar (CRH) and sprayed with EM. Over the top is a layer of chopped straw to capture steam.

For manures you have bagged you could try a new process that I have started and now about to pelletise as organic fertiliser. You mix rice bran, soybean meal and the new PIG-EM I am brewing into the dried manure, or in my case pig manure composts. What happens is the probiotic or PIG-EM rips into both the manure and the protein in the other stuff and amplifies the NPK more than the local village sound system. Great stuff. Once it is mixed you rebag it for about ten days so it is almost anaerobic and it gets as hot as hell. When it cools down, good to go...

Producing CRH or carbonised rice hulls is a regular part of my week. I burn 20 odd bags of rice husk every week for a yield of 10 bags of CRH. I get my hulls from the local rice mill and pay about 20 baht for enough bags to fill my pickup. Only other equipment needed is a kero tim and a bit of pipe, plus enough water to stop the hulls becoming ash. One burn of 10 bags of hulls takes about 4 hours for me.

Gasifier stoves are a great interest to me. I have a friend in Vietnam who produces a stainless rice hull stove for sweet BUGGER all. I am waiting the commercial release of these units and hope to localise production here. Pardon the pun, but a little on the back burner at the moment.

I have started making my own soil. The local stuff is rubbish. Over the last few years I have baled the rice straw and have produced mushrooms and other stuff but always the straw ends up is humus rich soil. So I built up raised beds using bales as the edges and filled them with compost, soil, biochar, and worm compost blended together. Theory being that by the end of the wet this year this year I will rotary hoe the lot into the crappy stuff under it and start again.

smuggling ? Bob there was a lot of flasks at the show but everything was expensive, but there was one company here that were doing embryo transplants no they had no cards smart people..and no one spoke english and I was chasing a 40kg prime cut so I got side tracked back at my hotel....

Obviously tender loin? Bob had certain items in his suitcase removed, sausage skins I believe? Whatever, had something to do with spice...

yes mate ill be at wormfarmers, it is not to far for me to his place ill be off line chaps from tomorrow night for a few days as i have to go to pattaya for the livestock show and to pick my car up after the new engine has now been fitted

slapout you are right very good for small calves from the hereford and you can not help about thinking of the one on colmans mustard ad a few hundred years ago but if I can not find it and i have a year i will go down the black angus way as there is nothing better for marbled beef so I will not be to upset

Andy

Before the year is up I'll be back over. I'll bring you a few straws from this

Bob

Hope your next smuggling effort is better than the last

If you are determined, and still need it, I will give it to you free.

In lower Buriram province.

Needs lots of water for good production.

Best

Got the water, got the fertiliser, aint got the red bananas yet. Free? Trade you some of the new fetiliser? Mu babana are doing well but I am sure you already have those. Red ones, WOW!

Just a heads up from todays Newspaper items ...

http://www.thaivisa....ay-31-mar-2012/

Pork price likely to go up next week

BANGKOK, 31 March 2012 (NNT) – Consumers will soon have to spend more on food again, as pork raisers will be allowed to raise the pork price.

According to Internal Trade Department Director-General Watcharee Wimuktayon, the newly-appointed committee tasked with overseeing the pork pricing system will call a meeting next week and pork price adjustment is likely to be a topic of discussion.

Mrs. Watcharee explained that pork price rise should help relieve financial burdens of pig raisers, particularly the small ones who have to shoulder losses. Live pigs are sold for THB55 per kilo even if the cost of raising a pig is estimated at THB62 baht per kilo. At some markets, a kilo of pork is offered at THB120-130 despite the fact that the control price is between THB 105 and 110.

In its medium-term solutions, the Internal Trade Department is seeking an allocation of THB1.5 bil in the fiscal 2013 budget to stabilize prices of major agricultural products including pork, palm oil and eggs. The Department may specify the highest and the lowest prices of these staple foods to make sure that both producers and consumers are treated fairly.

In the long run, pig cooperatives will be registered in order to upgrade the farming system. To boost the competitive edge, they will also be urged to turn to a full-cycled farming system so that they can be financially stronger and that the consumers can buy pork at an affordable price.

Dont ya just love this country? Wonder when CP and Betagro will start selling the farms, because they are planning to do so. Then again it may just be piur coincidence? Muffled fart!

WF, I got my start in worm farming from you and your good lady. My wife learnt in Thai and I in English. We thank you both for that.

In answer to your question, no just the two of us at this stage. I was hoping that ForEverFord may join us but it seems the bat and ball will be in play for him (Hua HIn Cricket).

To others yet to decide, if you have any interest in worm farming, organic agriculture or integrated farming then this meeting is not to be missed. The information to be gained at this one is as good if not better than any of the previous three. Even if you havent thought about worms before, think about how you would benefit by using farm made fertilising and pest control products.

Join the growing throng guys, be there.

IA

Hi IA, Nice plug thanks but don't get people all worked up expecting something amazing because they'll only be disappointed when they get here and see the reality! Cheers WF

WF, as you know, I've only been there once but to me it was the scale of the operation and it's simplicity that impressed me. In fact I could use any surplus you have right now. New fertiliser product range, not enough castings. I have achieved good results with pig and cow manures. Those are easy for me. My castings output is meagre and I cant reach beyond samples.

By the way, any of you other guys that are interested in uping the NPK values of any manure you have, drop by WF's place for the meeting or send me a PM. But on this ocassion be warned, I have the key and I aint sharing that for free.

IA

Isn't it nice to be noticed? Yes, folks this little pig drink a bit too much last time after a very tiring few days. Bergens place was just what I needed to relax. In fact so good that I practiced "Irish" yoga.

WF, I got my start in worm farming from you and your good lady. My wife learnt in Thai and I in English. We thank you both for that.

In answer to your question, no just the two of us at this stage. I was hoping that ForEverFord may join us but it seems the bat and ball will be in play for him (Hua HIn Cricket).

To others yet to decide, if you have any interest in worm farming, organic agriculture or integrated farming then this meeting is not to be missed. The information to be gained at this one is as good if not better than any of the previous three. Even if you havent thought about worms before, think about how you would benefit by using farm made fertilising and pest control products.

Join the growing throng guys, be there.

IA

OK count the wife and I in as starters. Accomodation please, nothing flash, just close by, will take a worm bed but wont eat them.

IA

I think you have to work out how much water your family uses in a year and buy and fill tanks to supply that amount. It'll surprise you how little water you use for drinking and dish washing etc.

TPI,

I would be very interested in your numbers as I am of the opposite opinion that I am amazed by how much we use. I use a gravity feed water system in my pig farm (I know it is not the same application, but bear with me) To wash the floor with a bare minimum of water uses almost 1,000 litres of water. Each pig consumes 20 litres a day. Most people grossly underestimate their water consumption. A flush toilet uses 6 litres minimum, washing the dishes will use over 10, probably 20 if things are rinsed.

Back to the topic, 30 metres is the figure set to guarantee that the soils filter the water adequately. I draw drinking water at 30 metres from the nearest exit to the septic tank soak system and do not have any issues.