rubl

Don't worry Baboon. You're still #1 with your one liners and non-own-opinion.

Anyway, Ms. Yingluck had fun with the kids, that's nice. Maybe she asked them how they spent the holidays.

Yet more off topic twisting and turning from you, and nothing to do with sticking with the topic of 'Yingluck stepping back into the political arena.' It might be seen by some that you are deliberately trying to divert the thread.

But don't worry, rubl. You are still #1 with your smears and barrack room layering.

Interesting reasoning, my dear baboon.

As for the topic, Well I for one didn't know that a kid's school was a political arena. Actually I dislike would-be politicians to misuse kids as such.

Good to see that the PM doesn't fall into the usual trap of ' helping the poor farmers ' fiasco and that

he learned the lesson from his predecessor who squanders zillions on those farmers, and guess what.

they're still the same poor farmers as they were years ago and will be for generations to come, as they

keep doing the same mistakes over and over again hoping for different outcomes......

So helping the poor rubber farmers by pledging to buy at premium prices is ok by you?

It's just politics.

"More than 60 per cent of rubber plantations are in the South. Trading and pricing are mostly determined in the southern markets. The South is also a major stronghold of the Democrat Party. People in the South have been voting solidly for the Democrats for decades. The party exploits this support from southerners’ for its gain, while Democrat politicians remain involved in rubber market and trading."¹

Guess who heads the Democrat Party in the South? Suthep.

Guess what farmers in the South backed the military coup? Rubber²

In January 2016 Suthep requested that Prayut subsidize the price of rubber sheets at 60Bt/kg. After Prayut complained about where he would find the money to pay that price when rubber sheets price 40Bt/kg, Prayut paid 45Bt/kg.³

^{1 http://www.asianews.network/content/opinion-sad-tale-thai-rubber-farmers-plunging-prices-and-deaf-politicians-7314}

^{2 http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/767657-thai-rubber-farmers-wheeze-as-prices-slump/}

^{3 http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/885832-thai-cabinet-meets-to-discuss-rubber-prices/}

And all complained that with the government inspired administration it was not worthwhile and just a token.

So, no rice subsidy either. Just funding for 'quality', 'alternative crops', etc., etc. Loans to be paid back.

Maybe the PM should be informed that some crops need more than a few days of reliable weather forecast. At least he would tell the Meteorological Bureau to clean up their act I think.

Always nice to see an Ample Rich nearly billionair playing with kids. Royalty and other elite figures do the same.

A few years ago she even had some help her with her iPad. Did she bring the kids some self-backed cookies?

Careful Rubl, you're beginning to sound like Baerboxer, unless it's a parody of course!

Now I have to wonder if I'm insulted or you're just trying to divert from the topic

And after all, who would 'know' better than you?

All in the name of democracy of course.

Don't worry Baboon. You're still #1 with your one liners and non-own-opinion.

Anyway, Ms. Yingluck had fun with the kids, that's nice. Maybe she asked them how they spent the holidays.

Always nice to see an Ample Rich nearly billionair playing with kids. Royalty and other elite figures do the same.

A few years ago she even had some help her with her iPad. Did she bring the kids some self-backed cookies?

Careful Rubl, you're beginning to sound like Baerboxer, unless it's a parody of course!

Now I have to wonder if I'm insulted or you're just trying to divert from the topic

Well, wouldn't anyone here like to hear the justification for the contents of the draft charter? Should make is easier to point out possible errors in the justification and/or the charter.

Of course. As well, people are entitled to hear criticism of the Draft Charter, including a rejection of the official justifications.

And this is the point: there is nothing sacrosanct about the justifications.

Absolutely, that's why you should hear their justifications in order to investigate, check, compare, etc., etc. The usual "It's the junta, so I'm against" sounds nice only.

Well, wouldn't anyone here like to hear the justification for the contents of the draft charter? Should make is easier to point out possible errors in the justification and/or the charter.

I think everybody already knows the justification, its not rocket science when you can read english and dont stick to just local sources.

And they will only highlight the parts that look solid, the small print will not be mentioned or explained.

English? Does that mean you found a reasonable English translation of the draft charter?

To judge the charter by the selected bits and pieces opponents translated seems not the right way.

It might come as a surprise to you but most people understand that every re-write of the constitution by the army has the goal to at least keep the perks for the army there, and at best/worst to increase their perks (money, power, etc).

That's the same as and has the same value as saying "obviously and as everyone knows'. No real value.

Well, wouldn't anyone here like to hear the justification for the contents of the draft charter? Should make is easier to point out possible errors in the justification and/or the charter.

True, but since criticizing the draft in a manner the junta considers "impolite" is punishable by up to ten years in prison, I don't think people will feel free to point out the errors. http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-thailand-politics-idUKKCN0XU0PA

But pointing out errors and inconsistences is not the same as critisising with "not want we (are told to) want".

Are you willing to bet ten years of your life that pointing out errors and inconsistencies will not be taken as impolite? Remember this is a thin skinned junta that threatens prosecution for a thumbs up on Facebook.

Apart from being against forums rules I'm not a betting man.

Mind you with all the 'nice' things some here have to say about the junta and nothing happening, I wonder a lot.

It seems to be a bit more subtle (did I say biased?), as shown by 2 cases reported today in the BP. On the one hand, Jutaporn was condemned because his remark was not made in good faith. On the other hand, because his criticism and expression of opinion were carried in good faith, Sondhi was acquitted.

So it's not only the intent to defame, but also whether it was done in "good faith" or not, which seems to be a very subjective notion. And very convenient too.

"Four legs good, two legs bad."

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Reconciliation?

Luckily we do not need to rely on what newspapers report on Law cases, nor on the selected quotes from such newspapers' descriptions.

"Well, I guess we should stop having elections. People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politicians.

"

That's exactly what happened of course. The trouble is, those naïve and corrupt politicians have been replaced by even more naïve and corrupt military types. And, we cannot possibly vote them out of office.

You're ignoring the part you didn't like, the "People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politician

"

That part IS democracy dear Rubl. The electorate has every right to elect the same sort of politicians each and every time. And they probably elect them for very good reasons.

The problem arises when certain people cannot accept and respect this very fact. Especially in the case of Thailand where such people have the power and means to do something about their disrespect for the electorate like stage a coup every now and then.

In a nutshell the difference between true democrats and democrats that only talk about democracy whilst cementing their power base without any electoral mandate, all the while pretending to return Thailand to democracy. Trouble is, they have not understood democracy, whilst at the same time accusing the large majority of the electorate from not understanding it. I still don't understand who they think they are kidding. Maybe themselves, if you repeat lies often enough they become true sort of thing...

You give all the right reasons why Thailand is not ready for democracy. Couldn't have said it better.

"cementing with electoral mandate" with Winnies "naive and corrupt politicians" people keep electing.

Well, wouldn't anyone here like to hear the justification for the contents of the draft charter? Should make is easier to point out possible errors in the justification and/or the charter.

True, but since criticizing the draft in a manner the junta considers "impolite" is punishable by up to ten years in prison, I don't think people will feel free to point out the errors. http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-thailand-politics-idUKKCN0XU0PA

But pointing out errors and inconsistences is not the same as critisising with "not want we (are told to) want".

Well, wouldn't anyone here like to hear the justification for the contents of the draft charter? Should make is easier to point out possible errors in the justification and/or the charter.

I think everybody already knows the justification, its not rocket science when you can read english and dont stick to just local sources.

And they will only highlight the parts that look solid, the small print will not be mentioned or explained.

English? Does that mean you found a reasonable English translation of the draft charter?

To judge the charter by the selected bits and pieces opponents translated seems not the right way.

So, funding. With attachments like 'loan', 'repayment', 'oversight', 'quality rather than quantity', I assume.

Sounds about right. Even in the West we (i.e. non-farmers) like that more than subsidies or self-financing scams.

Always nice to see an Ample Rich nearly billionair playing with kids. Royalty and other elite figures do the same.

A few years ago she even had some help her with her iPad. Did she bring the kids some self-backed cookies?

"Well, I guess we should stop having elections. People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politicians.

"

That's exactly what happened of course. The trouble is, those naïve and corrupt politicians have been replaced by even more naïve and corrupt military types. And, we cannot possibly vote them out of office.

You're ignoring the part you didn't like, the "People keep on electing 'naive' and 'corrupt' politician"

But you are a supporter of an organisation which staged a military coup, which many people would consider treason?

But you're a supporter of corrupt police and military officers ? because it's only corrupt politicians who are an issue?

That mess being created is made by a military that cannot stay out of politics who have 19 times in the past stepped over that line.

That mess is caused when you have the likes of Suthep and Juttaporn as pit bulls for people in higher positions.

That mess is caused when you have monks who have become political mouth pieces and who have forgotten why they become monks in the first place and what it means to be a Buddhist.

That mess is only going to get worse in the very near future.

The stakes are very high, very high indeed.

Where did I ever say I supported corrupt police and military officers? The mess was made by corrupt politicians. Period.

Be nice.

I don't agree, there is a difference between the reason and the excuse.

Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

This mess was caused by a wide conspiracy, co-ordinated by Prem but involving a broad swathe of the business, familial, judicial and bureaucratic elites, and was triggered when the police and the army were instructed not to arrest the seditious and treasonous PDRC or break up the conflicts which arose when the redshirts fought back. Yingluck for her part was naive and much too preoccupied by trying to get the elites onside, which was always going to fail because of her name.

Nobody was blameless in Thailand, for either fighting or for sitting on their hands, but make no mistake, Prem, Suthep, Prawit, Udomdej, Paochinda and Prayuth were the major treasonous guiding hands, even though it was not their idea and they were not the chief beneficiaries of first instance.

Sorry I couldn't be nice. I'd rather be accurate.

W

"Politicians did not cause this problem, they were, at worst naive in this instance. And corrupt, but every government in Thai history has been corrupt so that's a red herring.

"

Well, wouldn't anyone here like to hear the justification for the contents of the draft charter? Should make is easier to point out possible errors in the justification and/or the charter.

I think the Thai government has had contacts with their American counterparts

2016-05-30

"The Federal Bureau of Investigation wants to be able to obtain information on individuals’ e-mails, and possibly their Web-browsing history, without a warrant, and now two bills in the Senate — one of them, ironically, aimed at strengthening e-mail-privacy protections — have been amended to give the agency this power."

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/congress/item/23295-fbi-gets-warrantless-email-snooping-added-to-two-senate-bills

OTOH a person that never offers criticism of an electoral system that regularly allowed a criminal billionaire to buy his way to power, and even more illegal gains, but harps on and on about the junta trying to prevent that happening, shouldn't be offended when called a Thaksin sycophant.

And I would be surprised if 98% of the population didn't criticise any government. But they aren't concerned enough to take to the streets as they did against the corrupt Thaksin governments, even though they were more likely to suffer violence from Thaksin's mercenary thugs then from the RTA.

More diversions. Must be tough to have to revert to that so frequently. If you had paid ANY attention you would have known how critical I've been of the Shin administrations. You, OTOH, have (and correct me if I'm wrong) never been critical of the junta. And how could you given that you have stated that you don't care who is in power as long as it's not Thaksin

I will repeat:

Were you, perhaps, brought up in the East? Or are you claiming that those who call for elections don't understand Thailand? What about all the Thais that want elections? Do you understand their country better than they do?

What about all those foreign posters who keep on telling us "let's have an election" as if that would solve what some see as fundamental problems in Thai society and it's flimsy democracy as it was?

So, the NE not happy, at least not as happy as when the government spent lots of money on them without any thought for structure and future and with some UDD leaders turned politicians encouraging them to be happy. The previous government paid 870 billion Baht directly to rice farmers according to a Pheu Thai statement. Did that help the country, or more specific the NE? Any new infra structure build with that 870 billion Baht? New industries setup? Rice farmers still poor, no wonder they're not happy.

" What about all those foreign posters who keep on telling us "let's have an election" as if that would solve what some see as fundamental problems in Thai society and it's flimsy democracy as it was?"

The most fundamental problem Thailand has is an elite that won't relinquish power seemingly at any price.

Left alone Thai democracy migh evolve and improve. With the constant interference of the old elite this will be impossible.

Or maybe you can point to a coup that solved any problems at all?

While you're at it why don't you explain why this time around things will be different (not holding my breath)?

Still the same off topic question. Get's a bit boring, MZurf.

Just as boring as ignoring the lack of infrastructure to the NE which hampers further broadening of industrial activity and economy. The current government decided to put less emphasise on the Bangkok - ChiangMai link but concentrate more on the Bangkok - NongKhai link. With pre-financing by the Chinese having been ruled out the government goes it alone (finance wise that is) and decided to start with the Bangkok - Nakhon Ratchachima part. As I've been told Bangkok is Central Region and following the same reasoning that makes Nakhon Ratchachima the NorthEast. All will be happy now.

"He said the decision was made to alleviate tension in the nation but noted that the individuals are still banned from conducting political activities."

And he really thinks that will work? Wow. He should be more honest and say it is an effort to mitigate the appalling reputation this government has earned for itself in the international community. At least if they were to say that, they would get some points for responding to international opinion. maybe.

But Thainess is so ingrained, it's very hard to over-ride. So they dissemble.

W

Dream on. What international community? Russia, China, India, Japan, and other ASEAN countries aren't saying much. They hypocritical West, the US, it's lap dog Australia and the dubious EU are saying one thing whilst doing and building business, technical and education ties as normal.

The West isn't the "international community" although they love to portray themselves as such. Champions of democracy and freedom yet most enriched themselves from the exploitation of slaves. countries they colonized or treating native peoples as animals. Suddenly they became holier than thou. Leaves a bad taste somehow when they lecture others.

I don't think I fully agree. I do agree that they do *almost* the square root of bugger all. I think I disagree in that they do something, albeit not nearly enough.

When the delegation from the EP was here with nine MEPs they talked with Ms. Yingluck, Abhisit but also with officials of the Department of Foreign Affairs. Not much info, but KhaoSod had

"“It’s quite difficult to see the military regime [hanging on] in a longer term basis,” Langen said, adding however that it’s not the role of the EU to be lecturing Thailand.

“But we don’t want to come here to preach lessons,” he said."

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1463630249

I live in the NE and the only difference I can see between the pre and post military takeover is the crackdown on gambling such as hi-low and Bok. Otherwise nothing has changed. I would like to see the reasons why the people are not happy.

having their red shirt leaders nullified, no more red shirt favouratism for them and their red brothers from the ptp, having to comply with the laws like everyone else, just a guess of course.......

I'm glad you brought up the issue of regional favouritism - from the World Bank report 2012 - http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report

'Currently, 72 % of Thailand's general public expenditures are being spent in Bangkok, which is home to 17% of the country’s population and produces 26% of the GDP. In contrast, the Northeast, which holds 34 % of the country's population, receives 6% of the expenditures.'

I'm sure that'll make some people happy.

The previous government tried to rectify that by paying 870 billion Baht directly to rice farmers. Mind you, none ended up as still visible infra structure or industry. Money gone, NE unhappy.

"If you label anyone who doesn't critisise the junta as you do as 'junta supporters" 98% of the Thai population may carry the same label."

A person who never criticizes the junta (correct me if I'm wrong) but continuously harp on about Thaksin this and Thaksin that shouldn't be offended by being labeled a junta supporter. And I very much doubt if 98% of the population in Thailand don't criticize the junta. Again, too bad there are no elections that can prove me wrong.

"Furthermore apart from some MEPs in Brussels the European population doesn't seem to discuss and critisise the junta."

And why should they? Most people in Europe don't give a rodent's behind what the junta does, just as they don't go around criticizing North Korea and other friends of Thailand. You, OTOH, participate in a forum about Thailand so the comparison you make is laughable.

"As for "let's have an election", reasoned from a Western background as usual."

Yes, those pesky elections - wrong people being elected all the time! Although spending more than two decades here I am of course reasoning from a Western background - I was brought up there. Were you, perhaps, brought up in the East? Or are you claiming that those who call for elections don't understand Thailand? What about all the Thais that want elections? Do you understand their country better than they do?

OTOH a person that never offers criticism of an electoral system that regularly allowed a criminal billionaire to buy his way to power, and even more illegal gains, but harps on and on about the junta trying to prevent that happening, shouldn't be offended when called a Thaksin sycophant.

And I would be surprised if 98% of the population didn't criticise any government. But they aren't concerned enough to take to the streets as they did against the corrupt Thaksin governments, even though they were more likely to suffer violence from Thaksin's mercenary thugs then from the RTA.

More diversions. Must be tough to have to revert to that so frequently. If you had paid ANY attention you would have known how critical I've been of the Shin administrations. You, OTOH, have (and correct me if I'm wrong) never been critical of the junta. And how could you given that you have stated that you don't care who is in power as long as it's not Thaksin

I will repeat:

Were you, perhaps, brought up in the East? Or are you claiming that those who call for elections don't understand Thailand? What about all the Thais that want elections? Do you understand their country better than they do?

What about all those foreign posters who keep on telling us "let's have an election" as if that would solve what some see as fundamental problems in Thai society and it's flimsy democracy as it was?

So, the NE not happy, at least not as happy as when the government spent lots of money on them without any thought for structure and future and with some UDD leaders turned politicians encouraging them to be happy. The previous government paid 870 billion Baht directly to rice farmers according to a Pheu Thai statement. Did that help the country, or more specific the NE? Any new infra structure build with that 870 billion Baht? New industries setup? Rice farmers still poor, no wonder they're not happy.

Indeed. Consider the contrast between Thailand and Japan, two of the world's most Buddhist countries.

In Japan, taking responsibility and offering to resign is expected. In Thailand, avoiding responsibility is expected.

Can you imagine, given the failure of this rice auction and the attendant embarrassment, if the current Commerce minister stepped up to a microphone today, apologized to the country, and resigned?

(Now I would say Japan is probably the exception, and government officials in most places show an incredible tenacity for holding on.)

"Can you imagine, given the failure of this rice auction and the attendant embarrassment, if the current Commerce minister stepped up to a microphone today, apologized to the country, and resigned?"

I do have a lively imagination but that's too much even for me!

I'd rather see him made personally inspecting all warehouses still used, crawling through piles of sacks of rice, opening quiet a few of them, using the same tools and 'protective' clothing the normal workers there use.

Old jeans, safety flip flops and a broken hacksaw blade? All for ThB7000 a month?

I'm a softy. When the current MoC does all the crawling as described I'm willing to allow him his normal monthly salary

"First forum on draft charter hears a slew of concerns"

So what! The charter has been written, copies have been printed, teachers etc have been "educated", and the ballot tickets have been printed plus the referendum date is final.

Therefore, complain as much as you want because the military ain't changing anything.

Oh I'm sure the NCPO is willing to delay the referendum for another year if the public thinks that's a good idea

I'm sure you're right. But they are changing imperceptibly as the pressure ramps up. They're doing lots of things I did not think they would, but thought they should. It's fear.

They do say that a frog being cooked does not notice the temperature rising if it happens slowly. I see the NCPO changing and hoping the population are like frogs.

Your posts too. Change is a funny thing sometimes, it kind of creeps up on you.

Unlike the junta. There's nothing very nice in their tea-leaves and I think that realisation is dawning on them.

W

"They're doing lots of things I did not think they would, but thought they should. It's fear."

This sentence needs rephrasing I think.

What is unreasonable is taking for granted that having an unelected government is a major source of their unhappiness, when there are so many other factors of much higher significance to daily life.

Good to see you have rubl's back - you dwindling band of junta supporters need each other's support.

So, where has this been taken for granted and how come you can speak for the rural poor regarding what factors have a significance in their daily lives? How have you gained this profound knowledge (I must admit I'm impressed)?

PS. Please urge rubl to be straight regarding why he's supporting the junta. You admitted that you don't care who's in power as long as it's not Thaksin, but rubl doesn't have the reproductive stones to admit this. Kudos to you BTW for admitting this - you're the only junta supporter so far that has been honest.

Please refrain from such insinuations. The very fact I have an opinion different from yours and a few other 'nice' posters here doesn't make me a junta supporter, nor a fascist, nor someone who should be ashamed of himself, etc., etc. Just someone with a different opinion.

Now back to the OP we do not have much to go on. Blaming the junta is easy, but possibly a drying up of the 870 billion Baht Pheu Thai paid directly to rice farmers is more of a reason.

"Please refrain from such insinuations. The very fact I have an opinion different from yours and a few other 'nice' posters here doesn't make me a junta supporter..."

Well, you could have fooled me (and, I guess, a number of other posters). I don't think I've ever read serious criticism of the junta by you.

"...nor a fascist, nor someone who should be ashamed of himself..."

Never claimed you were or should. Touchy, are we?

" Now back to the OP we do not have much to go on."

Totally agree. That's why I'm advocating holding an election so that we can find out once and for all. I mean, according to the government polls any elections should be a formality for the ruling junta, right?

The 'fascist' comes from some of the other 'nice' posters.

If you label anyone who doesn't critisise the junta as you do as 'junta supporters" 98% of the Thai population may carry the same label. Furthermore apart from some MEPs in Brussels the European population doesn't seem to discuss and critisise the junta. All junta supporters, or just afraid they can't go to Thailand on holiday if they critisise?

As for "let's have an election", reasoned from a Western background as usual.