TallGuyJohninBKK

Think so! But one heck of a long way from Udon...

Thailand's on a "democratic countries" list? Really?

Indeed, for the whole inbound tourist scheme, it SHOULD have been simply policies that said YOU'RE COVERED for whatever measures are imposed on you by public health authorities -- up to whatever daily expense and total cover limits are specified in a particular policy... But no, they simply couldn't be that clear and transparent. Within the total and daily limits of the policy for basic necessities (transport, room, food, medical testing and care), in the event of a confirmed COVID case... --if the government sends you to a medical hospital, you're covered. --if the government sends you to a "hospitel," you're covered. --if the government requires you to quarantine in a regular hotel, you're covered. And of course, price the policies accordingly. And then let inbound travelers make their own decisions based on risk and finances.

Read their FAQs document via the link in my post just above.

I don't. And that's part of the reason why, I haven't traveled internationally or left Thailand for the past two+ years. Because the whole environment has been fraught with uncertainty. My own health insurer HAD been reasonably clear -- my policy covered MEDICAL expenses required if I happened to contract COVID, which is what I needed to know as someone living in Thailand. But the whole inbound travel scheme and the varying government policies about what happens when someone returning to Thailand happens to test positive for COVID created an entirely new and different set of unknowns.

https://www.axa.co.th/faq-sawasdee-thailand-inbound From their FAQ document linked to above: "Covid-19 > If I am tested positive for COVID-19 but I don’t have any symptom. Will AXA pay for the medical expense? AXA will cover for outpatient and inpatient medical expense incurred based on medical necessity and following the guideline published by Ministry of Public Health. For hospitalization, AXA uses a combination of factors including symptoms, age and underlying medical conditions to determine if the hospitalization is medically necessary. Only medically necessary inpatient expenses will be covered by AXA." Covid-19 > If I’m tested positive for COVID-19 and have to be quarantined in the hotel. Will AXA pay for this hotel cost? No, AXA will not cover for hotel accommodation cost. AXA will however cover for other medical costs such as physician fees and medicine,"

So in short, they're NOT covering asymptomatic or mild symptom cases placed in hotel/hospitel quarantine, and, they're NOT covering quarantine due to "close contact" exposure. The new guidelines from MoPH for COVID hospitalization require quite a bit of symptoms to be present -- difficulty breathing, high fever, etc... Not just sore throat and runny nose. So the insurance exclusion wouldn't necessarily only apply to those without any symptoms, but likely would also apply to those with mild symptoms who would still fall short of the hospitalization policy.

I agree with that in general. But, it's also true that the Thai government, its various public communications, and various Thai insurers and agencies have been far less than clear and transparent about just what the various policies will and won't cover. They helped create a marketplace where the customers have a very difficult time figuring out the details of just what will and won't be covered, given all the different scenarios that can come into play -- symptomatic vs asymptomatic, quarantine in a regular hospital vs "hospitel" vs some other kind of facility. What is deemed medically necessary and what isn't, etc etc.

What was the actual daily rate for that original 15 day booking? (even though you didn't end up using all of the days...)

In my country, emergency medical services, especially in bigger cities, are typically run the local government and staffed by licensed, professional paramedics or EMTs (usually in the Fire Department) who have undergone substantial medical training, and communicate in the field by radio with doctors at their base station hospital. In other words, they're professional medical personnel -- not street brawlers who have who knows what medical training and operate with the mentality of tow truck drivers. Unfortunately, what we have here right now with the so-called "foundations" is, in most cases aside from ambulances run by some private hospitals, the best Thailand has to offer when it comes to emergency medical services in the field.

The question is, was that guidance issued before or after the TH government recently revised their policy on COVID hospitalizations and its follow-on effect on what local insurers will and won't cover. The other day, I read the entire policy document for AXA Tune, which was listed on the insurance website as covering asymptomatic cases (again, that reference probably posted prior to the government's latest missive). Nowhere in the entire AXA Tune policy document are any of the following terms even mentioned -- COVID, quarantine, hospitel, etc etc. The only language in the policy related to medically necessary treatment provided in a regular hospital or medical facility (with a definition that wouldn't cover hospitels) or medical clinic. Hard to find anything in their policy language that would come even close to covering having an asymptomatic COVID infection quarantined sitting around a hotel room with delivered food for 10 days.

That appears to be a policy only for Canadian travelers issued by a Canadian insurance company, Manulife.

Thailand 2022 COVID hospitalizations (regular hospitals): Jan. 4 -- 17,280 Feb. 1 -- 40,590 Feb 10 -- 51,435 Feb 11 -- 55,058 Feb 12 -- 56,099 Thailand 2022 COVID patients in serious/critical condition: Jan. 4 -- 555 Feb. 1 -- 557 Feb. 10 -- 563 Feb. 11 -- 569 Feb. 12 -- 610 https://www.facebook.com/informationcovid19/photos/a.106142991004034/502478244703838/?type=3

The prior poster was probably mistakenly referring to this... It's not any vaccine safety issue that's under consideration, but rather, the effectiveness of the current vaccine regimen that's being trialed on children younger than age 5. They had been looking at a two mini-dose regimen, now they'll be looking at a three-mini dose regimen: "The Food and Drug Administration announced Friday it will not make a decision on whether to authorize a coronavirus vaccine for children younger than 5 until data on a third dose becomes available, a delay that means it could be mid-April at the earliest before shots are available for that age group. ... The FDA and the vaccine makers decided late Thursday night that the companies would not seek emergency authorization for now. A raft of two-shot data had just become available, reinforcing the shots’ safety but showing disappointing effectiveness, according to a person familiar with the situation who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe discussions among the parties. ... "Pfizer said data on the three-dose regimen could be available in early April, clearing the way for an FDA authorization within days or weeks." https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/02/11/covid-vaccine-young-children-delayed/

Same thing with Delta last year. The spikes in Thailand with Delta and now Omicron always seem to trail those in places like the US and UK in terms of timing. Cases and hospitalizations in the U.S. have just peaked lately, and now have begun trending downward... Thailand appears just on the beginning of its Omicron up-slope. source link:

Bangkok province "official" cases more than doubled since the start of February: https://www.facebook.com/informationcovid19/posts/501694248115571 https://www.facebook.com/informationcovid19/posts/495550238729972

Translated from the MoPH: "Dr. Chakrarat Pittayawong-anon, MD. Director of the Department of Epidemiology, Department of Disease Control, said that during the past week, children 0-9 years old and adolescents 10-19 years old have higher infections, with groups 0-4 years old and 5-9 years old mostly infected. Family infection, age groups 10-14 years and 15-19 years, are school infections. As for the exposure to infected people outside the home and in the community, it is a group of 15-19 years. especially young children. Please keep distance from the elderly and people with underlying diseases. because it may be infected and cause severe symptoms Especially the elderly over 70 years old will have a mortality rate 200 times higher than that of young children. Therefore, we have to campaign to get vaccinated for both children and the elderly. to reduce the risk of infection Reduce severe symptoms and death." https://www.facebook.com/informationcovid19/posts/501709224780740 As explained elsewhere and before, a good explanation of ONE of the reasons for vaccinating youngsters, apart from protecting their own health.

Thailand COVID hospitalization (real ones, not "hospitels" and such) -- more than tripled: Jan. 4 -- 17,280 Feb. 1 -- 40,590 Feb 10 -- 51,435 Feb 11 -- 55,058 (that's a pretty big one day jump in regular hospitalizations....) Thailand COVID patients in serious/critical condition -- slowly increasing: Jan. 4 -- 555 Feb. 1 -- 557 Feb. 10 -- 563 Feb. 11 -- 569

I ain't signing up for THAT! Wonder why anyone would?

That's why I included the IHME VE data that specifically looks in a separate category at VE against Omicron, which is still emerging because of the recency of that variant. Regardless of whether it's the Delta or Omicron variant, the AZ vaccine is coming out behind Moderna and Pfizer in various measurements in terms of vaccine effectiveness, as pretty much consistently shown in various studies.

The chart there on that page is an EARLIER (Dec 2021) version than the current (Jan. 2022) one I posted above. But even the version on the page you linked to notes: "We updated estimates of vaccine efficacy against infection and severe disease from the Delta variant using 10 studies covering six countries. The resulting pooled effect size is shown in Table 1." As I said above, they're combining actual study data results... Not just sticking their fingers in the wind. Their Jan 2022 version that I posted above is here: https://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary

I added the reference to my post above: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410 It's a study from last year, so presumably it's mostly pertaining to Delta.

I don't believe Thailand details their COVID hospitalization data that way.... But, something is driving the tripling of hospitalized patients with COVID since the start of the year... I would imagine, it's some combination of: a: there are lots more people with COVID who are getting hospitalized for some reason and/or b: there are lots more people with COVID who are needing hospitalization because of COVID. Either way, it suggests there are lots more people with COVID.

I didn't say the data I posted above was based on booster shot results. Actually, I believe both are based on fully vaccinated two-shot results.

As posted earlier in this thread, that's getting harder and harder to do in Thailand lately... Thailand COVID hospitalization (real ones, not "hospitels" and such) -- tripled: Jan. 4 -- 17,280 Feb. 1 -- 40,590 Feb 10 -- 51,435