BugJackBaron

Can anyone be a bit more specific, what does Mint do out of the box that Ubuntu doesn't?

Already mentioned

Flash

MP3

How easy is it to change to Thai after it has been setup in English?

Very easy, start language support and install Thai

For Thai INPUT you may need to run ibus-setup(This is the Ubuntu way)

but I'm not sure for mint.

Other than that, Mint has the best java by default(Sun) and all codecs, flash etc, preinstalled so in a way it's easier.

Another important thing is that Mint 10 comes with a better kernel(linux engine) designed for interactive desktop use than stock Ubuntu.

Lets make it Thursday January 13th - same time / same place - and see whap happens.

I was going to come today.

OK, see you all Thursday.

Cheers.

If you are looking for a popular disro with a live CD/DVD I would

go with Linux Mint (64 bit). It has everything you need and looks pretty.

You can install from the live CD.

You can get the standard Mint which is based on Ubuntu or the new Debian edition

which is fast overtaking the others in popularity.

I take em from Victory all the time and 99% of the time the driver is good.

A few weeks ago however, the van almost hit the curb and a couple of motorbikes.

Two Thai ladies in the front screamed in horror and asked to be let out before their destination.(they beckoned me to come but I felt lucky).

I am going to switch to the slower(as in futher from victory monument) but infinitely safer government bus at Ekamai whenever possible.

Which bars? Going to Naklua last week to see Raro's performance it struck me how packed all the German bars were. Could be it's just the bars frequented by UK visitors that are not doing so well?

pretty much all of them down soi 7 & 8 last night and monday

monday walking street also quiet, started to fill up a little after 10:30

Yes, some areas like Naklua seem to have people permanently glued to a bar seat.

But overall it's pathetic. Jomtien plaza for example is EMPTY. One bar out of maybe 30 is still open

Last year it was full.

If you are reading this from shores afar, now is the time to come..Pattaya needs you!

I've tried a handful Most come across as so-so but expensive. The one on the top floor

of the new central on beach road for example.

For Jomtien, there was one that was ok though the atmosphere seemed more like

"you ain't Russian(though I do speak some), why are you here?"

This was about half way up that mini "Russian Street" (it seems to have no name on the map) connecting one entrance to Pattaya Park and Thappraya Rd.

That's interesting. I know the road. Can you describe the place better? I am not put off at all by unwelcoming hosts. It's so rude to assume you need to be a certain nationality to want to eat a certain food. They need learnin' and I'm the man to learn 'em. Well that is unless they totally refused entrance which happened to me at a Korean restaurant in town. It's hard to argue with GO AWAY! NOT FOR YOU! If it happened to be "bow wow stew" night, they would be right! Oh by the way, is there an English menu? Because otherwise I really can't eat there as I don't speak Russkie.

There is another place that looked quite nice to me but I haven't eaten there. It's off 2nd road between Pattaya Klang and Pattaya North on the left side in the same business type area as that large Japanese place was (maybe the Japanese place went out of business). Anyway, Russians would know that place, they advertise a lot in Russian, but they do have an English menu. Also not welcoming, but I think if you ordered they would serve.

Also worth mentioning is the Uzbeki and Russian "Horseshoe" place on Thappraya road on the road to Jomtien. They have an interesting looking menu, though haven't been there yet. It seems fairly popular, maybe it's good?

It's caled "Populai" cafe and is the 1st cafe on the left were you to walk out of the gate to Pattaya Park.The prices aer OK for western food but I haven't been inside in a couple of years.

I've tried a handful Most come across as so-so but expensive. The one on the top floor

of the new central on beach road for example.

For Jomtien, there was one that was ok though the atmosphere seemed more like

"you ain't Russian(though I do speak some), why are you here?"

This was about half way up that mini "Russian Street" (it seems to have no name on the map) connecting one entrance to Pattaya Park and Thappraya Rd.

Again, so what?

so the 64bit desktop is no there yet except if you want to use ugly hacks that double the chance of vulnerabilities when a library is affected and clutter your machine. Also, you mentioned mediabuntu which I guess is an unofficial repo so you better trust those guys and you'd better have some packaging skills if they disappear or do not offer updates quickly in case of security issue.

Do you think google supports buggy software? Their releases are solid, often even in beta.

I really, really do. Their installer is pure crap.

http://www.webupd8.o...untu-linux.html

In Ubuntu this is all done for you now and the process is transparent. If there are any bugs in them - and all software has some - , they are

linux bugs(or just bugs) and not due to being 64 bit.

there are, of course, bugs that only hit a specific architecture.

not so long time ago: http://linux.slashdo...4-Bit-Machines.

Not a bug but it also took a long time for 64bit Firefox user to get spidermonkey to be implemented... way after 32bit...

Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I have nothing against 64bit and I even run a 64bit torrentbox/HTPC/SSH server, but no desktop.

Anyway, let's just use what's best for each one of us, thanks to FOSS, it's easy to do.

OK fair enough but we seem to be down to how much to trust the ia32 libs(which run a handfull of applications). Like you say, to each there own but I am puzzled when you say you run a server with 64 but not a desktop. Surely, servers if anything should be more conservative

about security than desktops and therefor stick to 32 bit.

As for google Earth, well ok there installer isn't elegant but neither are most

solutions for instaling softare on linux given the diverse ways to install stuff depending on distribution(deb , rpm, etc )

However, it would be nice if they packaged some good ways of installing for the most commio distros.

And yes I trust medibuntu...they have been around for a long time and if they were to go there are at least a couple

of ways to install GE so it would not be the end of the world.

i did a (very) little research about this today, particularly about flashplayer, and it does appear that ubuntu is using the (beta) 64bit flashplayer plugin in their stable repos. not being an ubutu user, i don't really know (or care) what they are doing with the rest of it, but i am still using flashplayer and skype from multilib in the arch repos, which is a pain i admit, but if the arch developers don't trust the adobe beta then i don't either. personally, i am still hoping for an alternative to flash (and praying for the demise of adobe), but regardless i cannot do without skype, so have to deal with the lib32 bloat, and for now there isn't much choice (unless i want to build the package myself, which i am far too lazy to do).

anyway BugJack, why don't you meet us @ soi8 on wednesday, and we can discuss this all in a (relatively) civilized manner? ;>}

peas and carrots,

k

I think your post shows part of the problem with linux. You seem to be an arch user which is al fine and well. But in my opinion

the best desktop distro in the sense of being transparent and easy to the desktop user is Ubuntu.

Flash 64 square works fine - even in fullscreen with a modest computer - and i've been using it since it came out.

And like I said, java seems more stable on 64 bit.

Ah the evil lib32 through which bloat and darkness will descend on your distro like a virus onto a winbox

It's not that bad folks. And believe it or not if there is a security problem there are security updates, especially in Debian and Ubuntu.

Hard Drives are enormous these days with any machine from the last 5 years.

And at least in Ubuntu, there are native 64 packages for all but a handfull of software.

I really don't get it.I mean not to belabour the point here or anything

but compare the security to any program for windows. Most of course are closed source. Do you trust your bank ATM?

Closed source software runs it for sure. Yes there will always be some security concerns but c'est la vie.

BTW I would love to come to the meeting on Wednsday but not sure if I can make it. Where exactly is it? PM me if that's private.

Any chance of meeting in Pattaya?

I

you are not using native 64bit builds. just 32bit ones with multilibs. even the 64bit skype version on skype's website is just the packaged 32bit build+multilib

Again, so what?

Do you think google supports buggy software? Their releases are solid, often even in beta.

Wine, Google Earth and Skype seem to be the three main open source applications that are run via 32 bit libs.

In Ubuntu this is all done for you now and the process is transparent. If there are any bugs in them - and all software has some - , they are

linux bugs(or just bugs) and not due to being 64 bit.

Linux in 64 bit has had a bad reputation but that is clearly changing.

Even the popular but conservative distribution PC-LinuxOS is finally getting a 64 bit version due to popular demand.

another possibility, if you want to get the best of both worlds (let's face it, 32 bit userland is way better for the desktop ATM - think flash, skype, google earth, wine, etc.. - ) is to use a 64bit kernel on 32bit userland, i've been doing this for years without any issue (PAE has some performance impact so I would not recommend it). it becomes a bit more complicated only if you have out of tree modules like proprietary nvidia drivers and so on but it's still possible to do it anyway. vmware may be one those too (anyway, with an i7 cpu, you could use kvm which is in-kernel as well)

edit/ typos

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree about 32 bit being better. That was certainly true five years ago and many people seem never

to check if the situation has improved.

*ahem*

Well, it has. Flash, google earth, wine, skype(the last holdout) , java all are running in my

Lucid Lynx 64 bit Ubuntu with no problems.

there is *no* native version of skype or google-earth for 64bit. there is a 64bit wine which is highly experimental and that basically doesn't work. As far as flash is concerned, there is a pre-release available. What happened when the previous 64bit alpha release has been hit by a serious security flaw? Nothing, adobe just dropped the support for 64bit until the new square release. So you had few choices, using vulnerable software, going back to 32bit+wrapper or using one the non-working FOSS alternatives. What you are using to run all those apps is just multilibs which add more bloat, complexity and is just a hack.

Sorry but I can show you where ...check mediabuntu for 64 bit google earth. It works FINE! skype is in the repositories now and works ok.

Wine in 64 doesn't work you say?

Sorry but I use it for microsoft office and it works flawlessly. I have also used wine in 32 bit and could detect no difference.

Ubuntu Lucid lynx here. As for them using multilibs well maybe some do and maybe some don't but linking to a seprate lib

while not pretty is hardly a recipe for disaster.

about subj

and what?

may be you want make from PTT Parises Louvre? But in next day all foreign tourist (may be 90%) go to other country's - 100%

all world know about PTT: PTT best place for sex

or needed to kick out of town all bar girls, in the city to legalize prostitution, to put the price for women same in Europe, and after 10 years Pattaya will once again be the village, or the same other city, such as Nakhon Si Thammarat. Many in Nakhon Si Thammarat foreign tourists? What do you think?

how people have there work or buisness?

English Translation (because I got too much time this morning):

About the subject, so what? Maybe you want to turn Pattaya (PTT) into Paris' Louvre? But the consequence is 90% of tourists will go elsewhere - of that I am 100% sure.

The entire world knows that Pattaya is best place for sex.

If you kick out all the bar girls or legalise prostitution and put up prices for the women so that they cost like they do in Europe, then after 10 years, Pattaya will return to village status and become some other Nakorn Nowhere. Not many foreign tourists in Nakorn Nowhere, don't you think?

How many people have work or business in Nakorn Nowhere?

---end of translation---

:jap:

How did I do? And please, don't flame the translator!!!

Good translation, and oh so true.

For an idea of what Pattaya would be like without all the bars/ girls etc, see Hua Hin ( and I'd never live there ).

Not sure if that's the best example..seems to me there were at least a couple of very lively bar streets there last time I went....

Maybe Chan Am?

another possibility, if you want to get the best of both worlds (let's face it, 32 bit userland is way better for the desktop ATM - think flash, skype, google earth, wine, etc.. - ) is to use a 64bit kernel on 32bit userland, i've been doing this for years without any issue (PAE has some performance impact so I would not recommend it). it becomes a bit more complicated only if you have out of tree modules like proprietary nvidia drivers and so on but it's still possible to do it anyway. vmware may be one those too (anyway, with an i7 cpu, you could use kvm which is in-kernel as well)

edit/ typos

I'm sorry but I strongly disagree about 32 bit being better. That was certainly true five years ago and many people seem never

to check if the situation has improved. Well, it has. Flash, google earth, wine, skype(the last holdout) , java all are running in my

Lucid Lynx 64 bit Ubuntu with no problems.

Indeed I find that java (sun java) works better than the 32 bit version which always crashes on me(after certain apps are open for long periods)

It seems to be a persistent myth that 64 bit is not ready but if you search the forums you will find that most complaints date from many years ago.

There is no reason not to use 64 bit and some good ones to use it.(more than 4GB , faster for some operations, more stable)

So enjoy your 64 bit linux today!

(Finally if there is some application that is only 32 it you have the option of using compatibility layer libs or compiling from source )

Any chance of a similar meeting in Pattaya?

A few months ago I switched completely from XP to Xubuntu 10.10 64 bit edition. This is Ubuntu with Xfce which is more or less a lightweight Gnome. I run it on a laptop.

I have found that it does some things better. In particular, torrents are problematic in XP if you use your laptop for a long time. This is a well known registry bug that is not present in Vista/win 7 but I didn't want to try those on my limited HD(80GB) ram(aGB) and cpu(centrino).

Everyhting works , even suspend/hibernate which is great. There is a great deal of flexibility - for example I can configure the touchpad sensitivity but in XP that was firmware set and could not be changed(I did a lot of research on this)

HOWEVER ..unfortunately much open source software is woefully buggy..the media player Parole is crap. Fortunately there are usually alternatives and I would recommend VLC as the choice for movie playback.

By the way, try Koffice if you don't like openoffice(which is now called libreoffice ) You don't need to install KDE to run it. Another good alterantive - but not free - is Softmaker.

Finally, if you really need Word or Excel and have reasonable ram, I would try to run them in virtualbox.

As someone who has

just returned to live in Pattaya after two years in Bangkok, I will just comment on one point for now.

To each his own I guess, but the only legitimate downside I can see to BKK over Pattaya is the poor air quality in Bangkok. Most of the other arguments I've heard on this thread are simply not true or don't apply.

> You don't need to worry about the traffic in Bangkok as you have the BTS, the MRT, the new airport link, (mostly)honest motorcycle taxi drivers, METERED cabs and virtually no sawng taeows (baht busses). Sell your car and save the money.

> There are far many more interesting places and neighborhoods in the capital to explore not to mention many more and better restaurants of all kinds and places of entertainment (except perhaps for go go's but if you're into that sort of thing you know where to find them here too).

> The average Thai citizen of Bangkok is far better educated than in Pattaya. There is more respect shown toward foreigners and less violent crime perpetrated against them. Service of all kinds is generally better in Bangkok.

> The beaches in the immediate Pattaya area have been for years, are now and probably will remain for quite some time filthy and not fit to swim in.

> Bangkok is a vibrant international city whose expat population mostly works here and is happy to be here whereas Pattaya's expats are predominantly retired, bored and constantly complaining about something or another. Yeah, I know that's a sweeping generalization but if you read this forum much you know it's true.

I suggest you avoid moving to lower Sukhumvit as you will encounter many of the same things you don't like about Pattaya there. You can live in another cheaper and more peaceful part of the city and still have what Sukhumvit has to offer a short commute away if you so want it.

> And after awhile if you find that you still prefer Pattaya and want to return, there's nothing stopping you from going back.

Whatever you decide I hope you find what you're looking for and wish you the best of luck.

I found the BTS to be unpleasant unless you like being stuffed like sardines in a 3 car train that should be six cars long. And you will be bombarded with ads while inside. Just not pleasant.

The MRT is still better in some respects but where on earth does it go of any interest?

And there are places of interest that you will need to suffer through the traffic to get to. Bangkok really needs at least three more BRT or MRT lines.

However the one thing I do miss is the river boats.

Oh boy, a chance to vent!

Wednesday is 60 baht (or is it 80?) for movies in the new central at least.

So a few weeks ago I said, hey why not. Sure that is the minimum price and will get you a back seat but

most films are hardly even half full so just get a cheap ticket, wait a few minutes till after the movie starts,then

sit where you want.

Also they will try to get you to buy a big set of popcorn and even lie or mislead about a cheaper

set not being available

But you know what?... despite these hardships, I enjoyed the movie!

Great name! good dynamic area. Ok food that at least is not overpriced(but the continental bakery sux). Contrast beach road.

It's a fun spot that never sleeps.

Apparantly the victim was the owner of the popular Canary Bay restaurant/guesthouse on Jomtien soi 4.I ran into a former tenant by chance yesterday and he said they only know the runner's first name.

Are you complaining about the poor service or the difference in price or both?? Either way both prices seem very reasonable. If you want to carry your luggage to walking street and save 40 baht - more power to you. For either of those prices, I would not expect a red carpet service.

Luggage? If you are going to the airport surely it doesn't matter. But this is not the typical case.

Not only that, but unlike the big buses there is very little room for luggage.

Most people going to Victory

are going to work. The people who use these vans are mostly Thais commuting to work or visiting.

Minivan service from soi 4 jomtien to victory monument bangkok. 150 Baht

But if you take theminivan from In front of walking street it's just 100 Baht!

Baht bus to walking street 10 Baht . The math ain't hard.

Yet another rip-off in Jomtien.

Try a detox. Yes that means a day with no food or drink..possibly with a warm up by eating only fruit for a day or two.See how u feel after. Be sure to break the fast gently by drinking vegiie soup or soft fruits

Google glasnost and check to see if your connection is being throttled. You may be surprised to find out it isn't. A slow download could simply be that the computer you are connecting to is switched off. Remember that the notion of torrents is that you are getting parts of files from other users.

Thank you, that is quite interesting!

This is why torrents are arcaic

They work. TIn fact I would say they are a proven technology.

They may not be instant but for anything popular they almost are.

The fact that many people have the same part means that there is no single point of failure

unlike a central download location.

What's the rush anyways? Even something with1 or 2 seeders will eventually get downloaded.

I really don't understand the impatience of some people.

Here is another point some may agree or disagree with.

I am convinced the failure of my WD 1TB external was due in part to

the use of the built-in backup software. I was curious and now never use

the software any company provides.

The reason is it will run as a daemon(unix jargon) in the background so if u accidentally pull

out the plug so to speak u could mess up the heads of the platter.

They also waste a lot of space by backing up everything.

Finally they are windows specific and I run linux now.

I had a WD 1TB standalone(own power needed) fail after just a few months,

They were kind enough to give me a USB powered replacement for free though

data recovery was not free(I declined the data recovery)

My old 320 GB usb Seagate is still working well and just feels more solid

than the WD which I hope will last this time.

I will stick to Seagate in the future