Gaccha

Simply listen to each sentence 10 times or so, write down what you understand, then look at the Thai transcript

Yes, this is the method which was known as 'dictée' (dictation) when I was learning French at school, and is a good, challenging way to learn.

(By the way, I downloaded it, but because I use Chrome, which opens PDFs directly in the browser, it doesn't add to the 'number of downloads' figure.)

That means two downloads so far

I really like this method. When I was learning Japanese I went through the Hollywood movie Apollo 13. Interestingly there is still one sentence in this movie that I cannot catch (by the way, if anyone has seen this movie on sale anywhere in Bangkok let me know as it is proving incredibly difficult to find...). I can now without a second's thought understand "orbital re-enty plan" in japanese, but unfortunately, not many people say that.

Here is what you have been waiting for: Intermediate/Advanced listening practice book-- Desert Fox and Commando

Features

the English language transcript

a Thai language transcript

(in two font styles)

a romanization of the Thai (sentence by sentence)

a breakdown of every single word

all tricky words translated

How to use

Do not read the English script first. Simply listen to each sentence 10 times or so, write down what you understand, then look at the Thai transcript. If still difficult look at romanization if tricky spelling, or English translation if tricky meaning.

Listen to them all in this way, should be extremely enjoyable (you will feel a thrill of success when you can listen to the whole transcript and understand everything).

It took hours to do it so download it just to make me feel better Cheers

The same style can be found in an earlier post by me of 'Ghandi and the reverend' and the "redshirt protests'. Because of the level of detail it is 20 pages long.

D_Day_Rommel_and_Commando_FINAL1.PDF

Your responses concerning my decision to take a risk are, if nothing else, reassuringly predictable.

The obsessive and fetishized Western obsession with 'risk', where risk has become confused with 'hazard' is one of the great new tropes to rot Western thinking in the early part of this new century. Where just ten years ago, someone could speak of 'that being a good risk to take' it now seems an absurd sentence, since now all risk is unacceptable. The preaching of no risk has reached such a point that a reaction of being treated as just slightly more moral than a paedophile is now common.

One of the great things about Thailand is that it is not locked into a tiresome biocapture by a state keen to create the docile, productive citizens of which, no doubt, some responders on this forum are healthy members. You go for health checks, eat the right greens, read magazine articles on cancer treatment brealkthroughs as you have bag and baggage allowed yourselves to be subject to this biopolitics of the neo-liberal state.

I do not have have to justify my experiencing of life, it is you that attack me so vehemently when I dare to reject the mollycoddling of the biopolitical state that should be ashamed of yourselves.

So why did I do it? Well, at an intellectual level I am very interested in the notion of the 'State of Exception' pushed by Giorgio Agamben. I conceive the Redshirt demonstration as a perfect example of Jacques Ranciere's breaking of the 'partition of the sensible'. No doubt, at a more biological level, I am obviously more of a risk-seeker than others. And at a rational level, I don't have any children, so the only risk is my own. At an experience level, I am experienced in much worse (Kosovo, Algeria, West Bank).

Let me leave you with this:

"To efficiently manage a diverse culture, mechanisms of social control and surveillance must be noninvasive. Hegemonic control (Gramsci, 1971), therefore, must manifest in seemingly benign patterns of behavioral regulation. These will be expressed as actions necessary to preserve the peace and will carry the weight ofmoral authority characteristic of utilitarian motivations to preserve the “greater good.” Here, Foucault’s (1979) articulation of docile bodies, serial space, and panopticism is illustrative. Similar to Garland (2001), Foucault (1979) associated the proliferation of docility in direct proportion to the state’s interest in enhancing discipline and social control."

[Conventional Risk Discourse and the Proliferation of Fear, Robert Carl Schehr, 2005; 16; 38 Criminal Justice Policy Review]

Thank for the good post Gaccha, much more informative as

Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

OR

Yes, (The) Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok (Thaivisa) In Virtual Warzone

Where only feral people post, you did attract one by the way in your post!

Can we get transparency bubble next time? Could see more of the street map behind

I always find interesting the odd little points that residents in Thailand would spot but a reporter flown in would be none the wiser.

Your 'transparency bubble' thought is an excellent idea. I just forgot to do it.

And then on way out saw the police and military from MBK onwards. They have been notable by their absence, and even now are very wary to go near the Redshirts. Somehow at some point they have managed to lay 4 lines of barbed wire across the road heading West.

Bizarrely, a 7/11 remains resolutely open between the Redshirts and the military. It is exactly at the point that either side could hit you. They cannot see each other as too much street furniture between them. The beggars outside the 7/11 are the most aggressive I have ever experienced. They are obviously quite desperate from the lack of pedestrians. There is virtually nobody around...

And then a surprise at the last military checkpoint. An officer with a old-wooden desk taking the details of arrested pedestrians. The farang is just ignored....

After this, a detachment of police are seen emptying and reloading their shotgun rounds (i.e. rubber pellets in shotgun shell cases).

My guess is an early start tomorrow for the crackdown.

Got to the Redshirt barricade. Nobody in sight. technically in a live fire zone. But I was most scared of the Redshirts just shooting me. If I was nervously awaiting troops I think I would just fire...

Finally saw some reporters. Not impressed:

The mobile reception is extremely unreliable. And only 100 metres south of the main stage there is a deliberate blackout in place. The scooters have covered their lights over. At Lumpini I was blocked for the only time by a group of Blackshirts. They really did not want me to see past that point. They were keen to show me the place where Sah Deang was taken out.

I wanted to see how close to reality the news reports are.

I did this walk:

Walking towards the Live Fire Zone was certainly the scariest moment. Then, I walked into a Japanese reporter friend walking the other way. He said: don't turn left or they will kill you, that's what the soldiers told me. So I didn't. The small squads of soldiers were no more and then in a distance a large barricade with a Red Flag flying. I kept walking.

About 50m further down it was not possible to see anything. All the lights were out. There was pure silence, no bangs and no explosions, despite me being there at a time that The Nation described loud explosions (although they may well have meant nearer Victory Monument):

The danger zone as I understood it was here:

The slurring defeats me, too. I can pretty much understand Abhisit on TV, but not Noi when she gets angry in the Thai soapie 'Sky Dragon'.....

EDIT: In the first narration bit, doesn't he say 'ข้อมูล' for information, not 'ข้อมี'

Sorry for the typo. ข้อมูล is correct.

Back to ผมคิดว่า part. For me the ม and ด are definitely there. Unlike their counter part in English plosive in Thai at the end of a syllable are not released.

They might be difficult to pick up.

I think it is a matter of training you ears. The first time I heard people say "god dam_n it". I thought they said "God damaged".

A few of my friends have difficulty picking up O in "double O seven" in 007 movies but for me the O is loud and clear.

Crikey, that just raises the issue of variations within the population. It seems there are various 'speak styles' and one is, as above, like a slur to my untrained ear. Or perhaps... if we consider your 007 comment I might still be right.

I would say the 'O' in double O is not there, at least it is pronounced so differently that is slurred out of existence, even though native speakers are convinced it is there. Record it and cut it from context. Then ask a native speaker what the sound is-- bet they can't.

A native speaker 'hears' gaps between words, even though there are definitely no gaps. I have noticed that for the first week or two listening to a new language it just sounds like an unintellgible slur of sounds with no gaps. But that sense is soon lost (in just two weeks) with a definite feeling of gaps between words arising.

Let's seize an analogy. A pitch tuner to the untrained musical ear just sounds like a noise. But musically trained people say they can hear a 'double' vibration sound. The gap of languages and the double vibration are, it seems to be, ephiphenomena of your brain conquering new issues.

Still, could be completely wrong...

I am not going to let this drop so easily. I am convinced that Thai, just like English, as a tactic for quickening speech, completely distorts the original word pronunications.

Take a listen to this:

Evidence_of_slurring_Part_2.mp3

"ผมคิดว่าทหารที่ดีคือทหารที่มีเกียรติ"

"I think a good soldier is an honourable soldier."

The ผมคิดว่า is utterly slurred. It sounds like this: "ผคิว-า"

Now, the point I am making is quite striking if true. Most languages contract/abbreviate/drop words but very few actually slur. English does this. If you listen to an English speaker say "I am going to the train station" then the "--am going to the--" becomes just one great slur that if recorded and played back slowly has no sounds close to the original words. Of course, this slur is easily identificable and guessable by a native speaker of English. And just as native English speakers don't know they are doing it, so is the same with Thai (I am arguing).

Are there any linguists that can confirm/deny this?

If true, it also brings into question whether it is worth learning the words via flashcard audios of individual words.

Throughout the listening I am startled how hard it is to hear the words, despite the narrator and voiceovers being very clear. The way the consonants are dropped or blurred is astonishing in its level.

Here is a short phrase that most will understand on paper but is a shock to my ear when recorded and repeated. I have recorded it repeated around 20 times in the MP3 file below. Enjoy.

ถ้าคิดว่าผมการ...

"If (you) think that I..."

ta_kit_wa.mp3

(nb. "การ"is the beginning of the word "การก่อวินาศกรรม", act of sabotage)

Proof if proof is needed that it just isn't enough to have subtitles, you have to have a transliteration.

That's fantastic. I'll stick it on YouTube when I have a spare few hours.

I would congratulate you on your Thai skills, but I think you're a native Thai speaker so that might sound a bit silly...

As for the rest of us: this is now a great learning tool for intermediate learners...

Field Marshall Rommel has been put in charge of the defence of the coast of Northern France against the inevitable allied invasion. A commando mapping out the French coast defences is captured and brought to him for interrogation.

Listen to this BBC re-dramatisation of the actual event which is recorded in the German Army archives. Please post your Thai version on here.

D_Day_Rommel_and_Commando.mp3

Be aware that there is in the scene:

Narrator

Rommel

Commando (played by an actor)

The actual commando commenting on his thoughts of the time

Rommel's subordinate (but he says only one word)

And if you are not sure, here is the English script that I typed out (I believe the Thai script simply has long pauses of silence where Rommel speaks German):

Narrator: Rommel often makes a point of personally interrogating captured officers. Not only to extract information but better to judge the calibre of the men he is fighting.

R: These are gangster commandos.

We have orders to [pause- German]… execute saboteurs

C: If you think I am a saboteur then why did you invite me here?

R: [German] So this is an invitation?

C: Yes, and an honour.

R: So, you are ‘commando’?

C:The best soldiers in the World.

C-old: [Then we had this extraordinary conversation which is recorded in the archives of the German High Command word by word. ]

R: How is my friend? Montgomery.

C:Fine, I believe. I only know what I read in the paper.

R: So when is it coming? The invasion.

C: I have no idea. Nobody tells me anything. But if it were up to me I would probably go for the shortest crossing.

R: Hm hm hm hm .

C-old:

C:May I ask a question?

[There I was sitting talking to the top dog general in Germany]

R: Of course.

C:Do you think soldiers are the right people to occupy a country once it has been conquered?

R: Yes, I do.

Of course, we are trained to fight but we are also nah… [German]

General 2: Adaptable

R: I believe a good soldier has a sense of duty, a sense of responsibility… do you agree?

C:I think a good soldier is an honourable soldier.

C-old: [And I said to myself as long as he is enjoying it, I think that might save my neck. ]

R: (Yahult?) It is a pity that Germans and British are not fighting together.

C: Against who?

R: The Russians of course.

C:I thought there are too many differences between us for us to be able to be allies.

R: No. What differences?

C:The treatment of the Jews for example.

[long pause]

R: Now you are talking about politics. It has nothing to do with us.

[commando marched away by guards] Halt. Don’t worry, you’ll not be harmed. You have my word as a fellow soldier.

[German-- ‘They’re coming’]

Ok, chok dee.

I would think helicopters in the town centre are useless, otherwise than to spot what's happening on the ground - or who is hiding on the rooftops.

they can't be part of any other policing operation

Ah, the innocence.

They were used to drop tear gas grenades on April 10th.

Unquestionably the best supplied and largest pharamacy in Bangkok is on the 'pharmacy road' (there are about 20 pharamacies on it) on the South side of Siriraj Hospital (the largest state hospital in Thailand). This is where you go for newly imported or rare medicine.

To find them:

Go to Wanglang pier. The road leading off from that pier is the road the pharmacy are on. Walk to the the South West edge of the hospital to where its final south entrance is to be found, and the pharamacy is just to the East of it.

I hunted long and hard for this. In theory they should be everywhere since there are a vast number of copyshops particularly around universities. The price should be 1 baht a copy as that is the photocopy price. It costs less to convert to a PDF.

What you need is a machine that simply looks like a mass copier that turns the document into a PDF file within 1 or 2 minutes. This appears to be pretty rare here or the technology while available is not set up to do it even though they can.

I was offered the ludicrous price of 20 baht a copy on a place around Ekkamai. Please let me know how it goes. It is important to me that it is offered with Thai/Japanese/English OCR (script ) reading software. Again, this is totally routine with any photocopier bought in the last 5 years.

I love it when people who are obviously lacking in clue try to pretend to be intellectual on the internet. It never fails to crack me up. Parroting someone else's ideas doesn't make you an intellectual, forming your own ideas does. Thank you for the laughs Gaccha.

Pot, kettle, black I think.. Another for the ignore filter.

Thanks tw25rw. I suspect 10027586 (are you a SpamBot?) thinks Ranciere is a type of wall sealing gell.

Some of 10027586 ideas include:

"Until there is substantial reform of the police and the army there will be no functioning government in Thailand." >Groan<

"governments of any colour cannot command either the police or military, so maybe it's time to disband both?" >Eh??<

"There is no government it seems." >oh dear<

"not sure democracy works anywhere to be honest" >yawn<

Ad nauseum.

His comments are on an intellectual par with the insubstantial nonsense found on the Daily Mail comments page.

Dear 10027586 when you perceive yourself as bright and then come across something you don't understand the brain suffers from an immediate cognito dissonance. Your brain computed that since you are bright it must be my argument that is 'pretend', rather than you not being able to understand. There is life beyond the simple arguments of A-Levels you know.

those vehicles stand against the traffic flow, so most probably placed there not by the fleeing soldiers, but by the protesters, already after the bloody shootings - to prevent more of the army vehicles coming to the area. They are sort of soft barricades.

They were placed there by protesters but it was before the shootings. They were in place by Saturday 5pm several hours before the mayhem began. I am an eyewitness to this.

Where did they get them from before the mayhem started?

The army started to set-up its pushback operation very early in the afternoon on teh West and North side of the protest. The Redshirts pre-empted their attack them by rushing up towards the bridge. They had captured prior to the shootings a fair amount of the 2nd army regiment inventory...

Those photos of the bus look like a bunch of hooligans and vandals have done the damage.

And how should they have 'done the damage'? Are there manuals out there for doing it in such a way as not appear as 'hooligans and vandals'.

I suspect you have not thought before writing your post.

They are attempting in a Rancierian sense to create a dissensus, they must perform acts that appear to delegitimise the state. Those words (hooligan and vandal) are all part of the statist discourse of control.

I think you would have to agree that they should not have done the damage in the first place.

It only damages the cause of the reds, whatever that may be.

Yes, thugs, hooligans & vandals are the right words, no matter which side you are observing from, especially from where I am sitting.

Interesting that you would make comparison with Jacques Rancière's theories/works, however, not really the point of this particular topic.

Au contraire, I do not believe it damages their cause at all. What you are viewing is a drama, a play, a 'scriptwrite' that is materialised in these burnt out Humvees. The pictures create a frenzy of paranoia among the elite because they understand the state only remains legitimate so long as it can provide 'security'.

However, the elite can rely on people like you. The dominant narrative of the state in portraying its opponents as a mob, as hooligans, vandals, heck, now they are terrorists, is dutifully passed on by you through this forum. You need to 'dis-entrap' yourself from either sides' discourses and look for the deeper issues.

When I see the photos of the crowds I don't see vandals, and when I spoke to crowd members I heard a deep sense of injustice that needed to be corrected.

And this issue is exactly the very essence of this post. Inferring the photos as a materialisation of these years of a suppressed narrative is one of the most exciting things a third party observer can do. This is political anthropology par excellence. And as Ranciere may have said, this is a scene of revelation, where the dominated can break the "partition of the sensible".

Those photos of the bus look like a bunch of hooligans and vandals have done the damage.

And how should they have 'done the damage'? Are there manuals out there for doing it in such a way as not appear as 'hooligans and vandals'.

I suspect you have not thought before writing your post.

They are attempting in a Rancierian sense to create a dissensus, they must perform acts that appear to delegitimise the state. Those words (hooligan and vandal) are all part of the statist discourse of control.

those vehicles stand against the traffic flow, so most probably placed there not by the fleeing soldiers, but by the protesters, already after the bloody shootings - to prevent more of the army vehicles coming to the area. They are sort of soft barricades.

They were placed there by protesters but it was before the shootings. They were in place by Saturday 5pm several hours before the mayhem began. I am an eyewitness to this.

I've heard some pretty stupid advice given in my time but some of the comments here are simply incredible. I have recently spent a, shall we say, interesting evening listening to explosions and gunfire not so far from my bedroom window. The day before that people were saying exactly what these clowns here are saying. No problem here, it will be ok etc etc. The simple facts are: No-one, not the redshirts, not the police, the army, the government have a clue, when, if, where, the next round of rioting and killings are going to take place. I don't mean just Bangkok either! You pay your money and take your chances... And no! I am not shaking and shivering in some paranoiac fear, just being realistic...

Right, exactly. I am but a footstep away from it all, I understand things could spark off but unlike many of the posts on here I have credible first hand experience. I spent 5 hours in the Redshirt 'mob' on Saturday, then walked around in a 12km circle on Sunday. This means, fro example, I know there is no Red hatred of Westerners. I was invited to many people's homes after chatting about the situation (between tear gas greanades).

Yes, there is real danger if you stay at Khao San, but if you use caution and think on your feet you are far more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than get shot.

If you have responsibility for other (e.g. children, old relatives) it would be irresponsible for you to hang around in Bangkok if you need not be there. But if not, I think it is important to override this recent epidemic of irrational higher superstition sweeping the Western World that says no risk is worth it. The very expression "a good risk to take" now seems absurd to the Westerner's ear because the word risk has now so strongly being associated with danger. The upside of taking a risk is forgotten. In academic journals right now it is pointed out that except for Paedophilia a person taking a risk is one of the most loathsome fingers in the popular imagination-- just look at the sheer anger aimed at such a person.

So go for it. This is what life is about. This is history in the making.

Since April 10th my Facebook account is overrun with commentary by friends making comments on the political crisis. They are typically upper-middle class and this has two consequences:

1. they normally write in English

2. they are anti-red

But since April 10th they have given up writing English to keep up with the pace of events. And their views have gained some interesting nuances.

May I start with one. I just don't get it but it seems quite profound. I am guessing it is a translation by somebody called Yuwadee:

ไห้เหือดเมื่อเลือดห่ม แดนตรมตะวันหมอง ชาติช้ำร่ำตริตรอง ใครจะ "ครอง" ไปเพื่อใคร? (ปล. ลอกของคุณ Yuwadee มาอะ)

The tears dry when the blood is wrapped, the area mourns, the sun is darkened, the bruised people are beaten and left to reflect who will govern for anyone (Translated copy comes from your Yuwadee)

In addition to correcting my translation can you please explain the particular purpose of มา here, thanks. I don't believe it is serving as a temporal marker but I want this confirmed.

I think this is because the forums were not split into different categories until 2005, so posts prior to that become impossible/difficult to find.

I wanted to analyse the responses to Thaksin's drug wars but there is nothing as it was too early on, Thaivisa forum wasn't really a forum for discussing political issues back then, and it didn't have many members.

You need special war insurance if you want to be covered for bomb/bullet injuries. Simply google "war broker insurance" and you will discover how exceptionally expensive the whole thing is.

cheers for that Gaccha

Thanks Mig16. I think it clears up some issues (was there gunfire on Khao San or not) and also places question marks on the maps provided on the mainstream media.

People when interviewed after these sorts of events say that it was 'just like a movie", but it is exactly not like a movie; there is no dramatic music to indicate the coming danger, there is no narrative build-up, it is just random mayhem. The way you can walk from a place of safety into the danger without any warnings always interests me (I have done it many times in such places as the West Bank, Kosovo and Algeria). The banal mechanics can be quite odd. I remember paying my 10 shekels (or whatever) to catch a bus to Ramallah where I was then shot at... There was, of course, no "PG warning (Parental Guidance)" like a cinema movie would have. I just got on the bus with the Arab residents.