Gaccha

I'll put my cards on the table and admit that in providing gay holiday destinations I might not be the best person for it since I don't like men, but having just got back from Yala and the insurgency area I need to send a message of quiet desperation from the folks of Yala.

I had anticipated that Islam would effectively and quietly shut down the public appearance of gayness. And it has--- in Pattani, down the road about 70 clicks. But at Yala I left jaw-dropped.

The central road (*) for the nightlife and trendy shopping must be Thailand's primary pick-up joint. The young femboy men on their scooters ride up and down in all hours and it seems every single one has a dream of a farang man.

They are so keen they forget to ask if you are interested in them. The conversation upon the abrupt stopping of their scooter and their quick flounce to you runs like this:

"how long here?"

"where you stay?"

And perhaps out of courtesy,"what's your name?"

Now if I am right, and I am never wrong, this is a social disaster. Every sweet femboy in Yala is either looking for, planning on, dreaming of a farang man. Yet from a quick bodycount in my 3 days there I counted, eh, one farang (me).

So there you are, buses leave from South Bus Station Bangkok, lots of sleeper trains stop at the railway station in Yala. And watch out for insurgents. Run, run, run.

(* the road runs parallel to the roads of Siroros and Phiphit Pakdi)

That whole area is heavily mined on both sides of the border. Has got to be "one" of the largest minefield areas in the world.

LL

I suspect you are just misreading the map; the person who made the map owns the area and had a mushroom field.

00:46 of this video onwards.

"It says 'mine'. So... these mushrooms must belong to the man who made the map."

i bought a mosquito light at tesco fo 200 baht shaped liked a panda for kids room i suppose

it probably works better in the dark at night

I have the same panda thingy. I swear by it. It kills every mosquito in the room. There is also a lovely positive feedback, with the electrocuted bodies fused to the surface of the electric coils. My worst night had a 20 body count...

Not that I know about, we've not many farang in Hat Yai and I don't really know how our Chinese Christian community celebrates Christmas, but I don't think it extends to turkey and brussel sprouts!

It was worth a try. I'll be on location on Christmas Day. Might head for the cabaret...

Is there a fanatical farang blog/website that deals with the details of the thai boxing. It would have detailed discussions on each thai boxer, their current performance, the inside gossip, photos, the stats....

there must be...

Any other places...?

Can I obtain a multiple re-entry permit from any immigration office in Thailand, or only at the office in my area of residence (Bangkok)?

Note: I have a one year visa. I am not talking about a multiple reentry visa (3 monthly or whatever they are).

I want to go to Hat Yai and go to the immigration office there, so that if I choose to cross to Malaysia I can do it on the spot.

Thank you in advance.

As I understand it, the original controversy over the calendar was that it was illegal under legislation to control the promotion of alcoholic drinks. I understand that the legislation bans advertising or promotion intended to increase the consumption of alcoholic beverages, and the court presumably felt that the calendar might do that - in which case, money well spent by the advertisers.

Exactly. This legislation is identical to British legislation that forbids any association of 'success' with women and drink, youth and drink etc. that are found in the guidelines to the Advertising Standards Agency.

It is interesting that this is not though the topic for discussion, instead the topic has become-- isn't it awful how women's bodies are objectified. Besides this being a pointless complaint as it merely comments on a social totality, I would point out that the exact opposite complaint has recently reached the headlines in the British press. Young men have now such astonishing access to photos of girls in various poses and of exceptional quality they have lost interest in the women around them.

The woman today must then position herself as agreeing with two contradictory positions: they must object to objectification and must complain of not being objectified any longer.

At least Thailand has kept a relaxed approach to this area of advertising.

Easy for legal-regime obsessed Westerners to make criticism of ASEAN's light touch.

The fact is the ASEAN states are chronically at peace. Cambodia and Thailand did not end up at war.

Tell that to the people of Burma especially the hill tribes.

Tell that to the people of southern Thailand.

Tell that to the Filippinos in the outlying islands.

Take off those rose tinted specs and look around at the real world.

The states with each other are chronically at peace, but within the states are major conflicts. How would a stronger, more regime-based organisation be any better at dealing with this...?

What you fail to understand is that ASEAN's position of non-intervention in the domestic situation of onther states is fundamental to these internal conflicts not getting out of hand. Malaysia does not openly and actively assist the southern Thailand groups. The Muslim states do not support the rebels in Mindano and so on.

My win.

Easy for legal-regime obsessed Westerners to make criticism of ASEAN's light touch.

The fact is the ASEAN states are chronically at peace. Cambodia and Thailand did not end up at war.

I can beat you all.

I stayed at the only hotel recommended by the Rough Guide's South East Asia guide for Udon Thani, and I am going to hazard a guess the author never stayed at it.

I was the only guest. It took 3 viewings before I found a room with either a mosquito net or a window. But I should have been concentrating on the fundamentals. The sink had no plumbing anywhere. You switched the tap on and the water simply poured onto the carpet floor.

Yet the hotel owner is a genial old man. He told me that every year he goes to watch Manchester United play at Old Trafford. How can this be? The hotel has but one guest for 150 baht.

I got my answer at midnight when I arrived back at the hotel to find a line of Thai men waiting for 6 Laotian girls in the downstairs rooms-- while I sat in the porche area watching the telly, with the line of Thais snaking around me, the Laotians kindly offered me a pop at 300 baht. I declined. The police drove by and did nothing. The next morning I came downstairs to find the police chatting with the girls and the owner over a nice cup of coffee.

A great experience. Multi-culturalism, returning back to nature, interacting with the State, watching the locals at play. And only 150 baht a night.

Your reactions fascinate me.

We know from the Stanford Prison Experiments onwards that humans can be readily manipulated into torturing others/ being corrupted/ being gamed or scammed.

We would all like to believe that we are too clever for it, too superior, too morally aware. But you are not. If you are even slighty group-orientated (played for your school football team, work in a conventional office environment, have 'mates' that you hang out with) then you will definitely fall for any of these.

Only if you are the outsider, the loner, the rebel, is there a possibility that you can resist. Typically these people become professors/reporters/mercenaries... etc. If on the other hand you are an accounts manager at a British coroporation then forget it. You are already ready to be chewed apart by these sellers.

"the proposed bill criminalizes attempted homosexuality"

I appreciate I should be in a state of upset condemning this bill but I will leave that to everyone else, instead I have a few geeky observations.

1. The tendency to use 'homosexual' as a noun is seriously objectionable. It locates and ties that human being as nothing but that descriptor-- it suggests there is nothing more to say. At one point, althougth for some reason not now, newspapers starting to observe this point, and the Guardian Style Guide did (but now doesn't) mention that it should be restricted to an adjective form. But even then.... e.g. The murderer is door-stepped by the press reporter. The reporter solemnly turns to the camera,"this is the homosexual murderer Vincent....". Wait a minute says the murderer:"I am a murderer who just happens to be gay".

2. I find it amusing that the Ugandan authorities believe you can 'attempt homosexuality'. It sounds deliciously a la carte. A simple physical manouevre that if not undertaken you remain, presumably, ruggedly masculine.

3. Now this final geeky point is a wide digression, but stay with me. I wonder what would happen if aliens landed. What of the inter-species sexual relations. Say, the aliens were dead ringers for perfect humans (e.g. the Hoff or Britney ). Would there be horror and outrage at such acts? I have discovered that the Vatican has actually written up protocol for this eventuality. Obviously their priority is to baptise these uber-advanced alien species into believers of Christ, but they also object to the aliens having sex with men because humans are the image of God and chosen by God. God help us. If only the Church spent a little bit less time on these issues and a little more dissuading the backwaters like Uganda about the demerits of intolerance and encouraged acceptance then things might run a bit better.

I "have a legal background".

No 1 You seem genuinely worried about them getting the rest of the money off you besides the deposit money. Don't worry. How are you expected to pay this? By credit card? By direct debit? How? If by credit card, explain this is a fraudulent misrepresentation to the credit card company and have them cancel the payment (in other words, they will dishonour the payment). If you are simply expected to pay via a bank transfer, then don't do it.

No 2 The only way they could reasonably get the money off you is to instigate a civil action against you in Thailand, then have the debt placed against you through the Australian courts. If they should give you notice of this (i.e. you actually see papers from the court with the date of action) then defend this action but I think this very unlikely, it is simply too expensive for them to pull if off. If they should, counter-claim that they owe you the deposit as it is at least a negligent misrepresentation in civil law.

No 3 Place an official complaint with the police that is a criminal fraud. Write this complaint to the major-general of the province and cc. in the governor of the province. Get any response and use this response as part of your defence in any civil action.

No 4 Unless you are prepared to go through the courts to get the money off them then your deposit is lost. It is certainly well below the amount that would be worthwhile to sue in the UK unless you DIY. But that is just not possible here in Thailand.

No 5 The informal route with the local police officer is valid and normal. You might speak to your embassy to see if they have better connections with the police, local judges.

Wish you well.

New quote to replace the overused Disraeli quote (see around reply #6):

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts -- for support rather than for illumination. "-- Andrew Lang

"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"

- George Orwell, Animal Farm, Ch. 5

I have turned the first 3 paragraphs into an easy reading exercise for intermediate learners. I have put the Thai and English paragraph by paragraph, and then placed a transliteration of the Thai at the end.

Animal_Farm_first_three_paragraphs_in_Thai_and_English.pdf

(nothing special, just used the tools and technologies available on the internet)

This store and its sister store have just been busted by the ever-alert Thai police for renting pirated DVDs.

http://www.tannetwork.tv/

(see under Crime section: "Police Bust Pirated DVDs in Bangkok: Police bust a store in Bangkok for selling pirated DVDs. Seized items are said to be worth as much as 30 million baht.")

A real shame, since obviously there is no other way of getting this type of DVD...

Any updates ?

As in, will they survive the week...??

The wildly anticipated quarterly filings are now available at the Stock Exchange of Thailand website, telling a story of a company in wild freefall with a cash flow of minus 505 million baht in the third quarter... and revenue down a quarter on last year...

(http://www.set.or.th/set/companyfinance.do...&country=US)

So if you fancy a gamble you should throw money on the horse races in Royal Jockey Club. But if you want a *dead* certainty then lifetime membership at Cal Wow is the way to go... there is some astonishly frenetic trading this month in the shares... (84 million shares on 13 November traded)

OF COURSE Johnny made #1

Oh Johnny...Johnny...Johnny......

There go my chances with Eek. I always get told I look like Keanu Reeves.

Ah, I just spotted my typo and corrected it. Thanks. "Does" should have read "doesn't", but it seems you understood what I meant anyhow.

There's a difference between denotation and connotation. Roughly speaking, denotation means to state explicitly, and connotation means to imply or state implicitly. Usually a metaphor is implicit. Shakespeare wrote "All the world's a stage" -- he's making an implicitly metaphorical statement.

Adding "so to speak" makes it rhetorically explicit that one is being metaphorical, rather than just implying as much based on the context. At least, that's how I would put it.

Amusingly in modern vernacular, we can say "quite literally, all the world is a stage" despite this not possibly being the case (unless, of course, the whole world really is a stage). I have noticed an adaption of this which makes it at least logically correct: "it's literally like all the world is a stage" or the slightly varied meaning: "it's like literally all the world is a stage".

This adds not a dime to the debate, but is amusing.

given the derisive nature of your reply, not to bother contributing to your OPs in future (which no doubt will please you).

I post here only to remove a confusion: I didn't say the the concepts didn't exist in Thai, I said they were not used as rhetorical flourishes in Thai in the way that they are in English. A Thai teacher at AAA Pasawes School told me that, as did a private Thai teacher who speaks very good English. Are they both wrong? I don't know - I'm just sharing what I have been told.

'Furthermore, In addition, Moreover' etc are known as logical transitions. There are perfectly good equivalents of these in Thai and probably every other language I would suspect - but these weren't what either you or I were talking about.

ทำไมถึงคิดอย่างนั้นล่ะ

Relax, my friend. My comment of 'laughable' wasn't an aside against you, or your friends, it was a feeling I have for the game of language learning. I find within this system certain odd points constantly arise, often connected to the wrong decision of the teacher-agent to socially engineer. Words and ideas are denied to exist in the target language; the famous case is the bizarre insistence that Japanese does not have swear words. I am suggesting that your friends' positioning is almost certainly an element of the nature of teaching. I feel it inevitable that in 6 months time I will come across the exact words I wanted, Thai friends will grunt their misunderstanding of my original request for help and life will move on.

I really don't see what I have described as flourishes. Actually it is their ability to circumscribe a thought that makes them so practical.

Come on back in to the debate.

so to speak

Adverb

1. as if it were really so; "she lives here, as it were"

(synonym) as it were

2. in a manner of speaking; "the feeling is, as we say, quite dead"

(synonym) as we say

Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)So-called

(a.)

So named; called by such a name (but perhaps called thus with doubtful propriety).

This thread is bizarre. Just two days ago for the first time in an act of pure spite I decided to ruin a newcomers day after they got in a handbag fight with Neverdie. I giggled when I gave them their only rating, and now they proudly sit with a one star, just like me.

A couple of teachers have tried to knock this idea out of me. When I first started learning to write Thai at a school, I wanted to add the kind of rhetorical flourishes that I would use in English 'and another thing', 'besides', and, indeed some of the ones you give above.

Some Thai friends have provided me with equivalents of one or two after some pressing, but the response has always been the same: for the most part, these are not Thai expressions, and Thais often won't get them if you try to use them.

The only one I can think of that has a Thai counterpart (at least in writing, I'm not so good on colloquial speech)

is

'For starters' = the first thing (to do/ to say) ส่ิงแรก(ที่จะทำ / ที่จะบอก)

I think your confusing two points. A literal translation of the English will be barely comprehensible. But for Thai friends to claim the concepts don't exist/are not used in Thai is laughable.

'So-called' 'so to be speak': いわば　　いわゆる are perfectly translated into one word in japanese.

These are simple concepts that humans utilise to understand the world.

But in contradistinction, had you asked them how to say "and another thing" then it would seem bizarre if it was literal, but the concept is the same as "in addition", "futhermore" etc., and these are used all the time. I suspect your Thai friends simply didn't understand the request.

I note confiusion in the responses. I am driving at the tendency for English to use several words when one would be adequate.

There are some concepts that require a bunching of words in English, which make it impossible to find the concept in a dictionary, but also it is not then considered a grammar point. So for starters can I have these concepts translated to Thai please:

so to speak

so-called

in a sense

for starters

have a tendency to

Thanks, and I would like to see more listed if others can think of any...

I can't help but feel sorry for the bar.

Here they are trying to earn an honest living when all of a sudden the worst elements of humankind spill into their bar to watch them perform their daily night time shift activities.The bar must be so embarrassed by its association with British teenagers.

If I was the bar owner I would write a press release condemning Thailand in allowing the scum of the earth (British teenagers) into the country and violate the good bar scene of beloved Thailand, and expressing my hope that these teenagers can be contained in the vast human nursery called "the UK".