JimGant

Prostate cancer is the second most prevalent cancer in non-Asian men, so many TV readers either have the disease -- or will someday. And as has been mentioned, treatment in Thailand is either scarce or expensive. And I would venture, when available, it is probably not world-class (but I hope I'm wrong in this assumption). The latter point is very important because, with all my reading about prostate cancer this past year, the one point that sticks out is that you need an artist physician to deal with it, whether or not you have it cut or fried. Why? To minimize the many possible side effects -- many of which sound worse than the disease (unless you've watched your father die in pain from PC that has spread to the bones).

Why my interest? Two years ago, at age 60, a PSA of 6.7 led me to a 12-core biopsy (the DRE was negative, but because of family history, I elected to skip the antibiotics step and go right to the biopsy, which, incidently, was relatively pain free). The odds were that nothing would show up (65-75% chance), but two cores were found to be cancerous -- but not too aggressive (Gleason 6) nor extensive. So, I had the option of brachytherapy (radioactive rice-sized seeds) without additional external radiation. This is what I finally chose (but living close to Johns Hopkins, the premiere hospital for PC surgery, I *almost* had DaVinci robotic surgery there -- but flipped a coin and radiation won).

Anyway, I'm now in another form of 'watchful waiting,' namely, watching the PSA numbers fall, a process that takes a couple of years before they know if they "got it." Except for a month of 'frequent and urgent,' I've had absolutely no side effects. (With radiation, it's possible I'll need Viagra in a few years -- but, hey, that apparently works for those who've had seeds.)

A month after my procedure, a friend (54 years old) had PC surgery at Johns Hopkins by one of the veteran surgeons there. Today he's impotent and incontinent. They're talking about an artificial sphincter for him. Just shows you that even with an artist (who maybe was having a bad day), dealing with PC can be tricky.

Which gets us back to Thailand. Fortunately, I still have one foot in the States, so I was lucky to be able to have this dealt with there. But what if I were full-time in Thailand?

Hmmm. Maybe the do have a world-class set-up here to deal with prostate cancer. I just don't know. I just know treatment requires talent and experience -- and for a country where DREs aren't routine (short, stubby fingers? ), dealing with prostate cancer probably isn't either.

Maybe the Boston honorary consulate has always done this. Don't really recall seeing much dialogue here about their operation.

But, from some other recent threads, seems there is some whip cracking going on with the honorary consulates. I guess the authorities *do* read this forum.

Nevertheless, honorary consulates -- all staffed by locals -- would seem to remain the most hassle free means of obtaining a visa. And the postmark on the envelope of your application doesn't seem to be a problem with any of them -- at least in the States.

However, "visiting my friend in Patpong" may no longer hack it as Non Imm O rationale.

Non-immigrant "O" visa.

Greg,

Admittedly, I don't read all that comes along on this forum -- but most of it. And I don't recall seeing anything in the past that showed Thai consulates in the US -- both MFA and honorary -- nor the Thai Embassy -- requiring proof of money in the bank as a requirement for a Non Imm O visa. Yes, a Non Imm O-A requires money in the bank. And recently Singapore started requiring money in the bank as a requirement for a Non Imm O. But your report, while certainly not a show stopper, just an added irritant, is interesting. I wonder if Singapore -- and now Boston -- are reacting to some MFA wisperings -- 'cause there's nothing out there in writing about bank account requirements for Non Imm O visas, at least that I'm familiar with.

What was the basis of your Non Imm O? Maybe that's where I'm bogging down, as I'm married to a Thai, and use that as my basis for getting my Non Imm O from Houston -- which two months ago didn't want to see my bank book.

And only $500? What comfort would that give to MFA authorities?

Anyway, another wrinkle in visa requirements keeps things interesting around here.

They only required that I show $500 in my account..

What were you applying for that requires $500 in a bank account?

Directional Driller? Hmmmm. Will have to ask the wife.

Generally speaking when it comes to exchange rates, isn't the best way to get the best rate a large transfer at the right time, or a maximum ATM withdrawal from an overseas bank that respects it's customers enough to not charge the sun and the moon

Yes, basically. It sometimes is a wash when comparing ATMs with wire transfers, and their differing exchange rates and fees. Often, when you've a good, low fee ATM card, the deciding difference (if you're a nickel-and-dimer) is the foregone interest earned on funds wired to a low interest-paying bank account.

For credit cards that waive their foreign transaction fees (or offset with a purchase rebate), you'll be better off using such in Thailand vice using Thai plastic from an account with wired-in funds. Why? Because you'll be getting a wholesale rate similar/same to the Interbank Exchange Rate, which is always slightly higher than the rate you get when you wire in money (the TT rate). Plus, wiring money has fees, usually at both ends. So, no fee foreign plastic has a slight edge. But such 'no fee' foreign cards are getting hard to find. And if holding a foreign address and other hassles are involved, the savings over Thai plastic aren't worth it.

(Today, the above applies only to Visa/Plus, which uses onshore rates. MC/Cirrus is using offshore rates -- a temporary situation, I would hope...)

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but what you describe sounds more like "Yet Another Way by Credit Card Companies to Shaft Their Customers" than anything Rimping or Home Pro would knowingly try to pull on their customers. (Question:) As such is the topic title in the title misleading?

Here's a quote re DCC from the Visa Website:

Some merchants now offer to convert your bill into your home currency. This is called dynamic currency conversion and means the merchant—and not Visa—is converting the currency. As a consumer you may value knowing the exact price in your home currency at the point of sale but you should also know you may be charged extra for this service by the merchant. Visa requires that you are provided a meaningful choice at the point of sale and you have the right to buy your purchase in the local currency so that you do not incur any additional fees the merchant may assess. Visa also requires merchants offering this service to inform you of the exchange rate including any applicable commission being charged. If you choose DCC for a transaction, you receive the merchant rate, not Visa's rate.

Ok, another rehash of DCC. But the part in bold says it all -- and Rimping (and Home Pro) made no effort to provide a "meaningful choice at the point of sale." And they can't plead language barrier (it was my Thai wife shopping).

The 'no cover up' presentation would have been: 'Mrs Gant, would you like to pay an additional 7% for the privilege of instant conversion into dollars?' Of course the truth won't sell. So, some merchants, in trying to comply with Visa/MC instructions to some degree, ask: "Would you like your transaction in foreign currency or your home currency?" For the occasional, unknowing tourist, home currency probably sounds good. But, Rimping didn't even go this far. Nope. Pure phuck the customer.

Bangkok Bank, who's operating the 'spread,' is getting at least half the gouge too.

And Visa (and MC)? Well, Visa no longer calls their 1% charge to issuing banks a "foreign conversion fee." It's now called an International Service Assessment. And they still charge the issuing bank 1%, even if under DCC no conversion took place. And, further serendipity, the issuing bank doesn't have to comply -- when DCC's involved -- with the [uS] law that says 'foreign conversion fees' must be disclosed on the statement.' (Hey, the law said "foreign conversion" fee, not foreign transaction fee.) Thus, for US cardholders, you'll no longer see a two-line entry for foreign purchases divulging conversion costs -- when DCC has occurred. Nice end-run, Visa/MC.

No, there's absolutely nothing in DCC favoring the consumer. It's a complete gouge. But, for the unknowing, it's an easy scam -- worth a lot. And it probably has signed up a lot of merchants unwilling to pay the 1-3% credit card fee on sales -- until DCC's magic wand made this disappear.

So, yes, the credit card companies were complicit in launching this scam.

Which doesn't let Rimping, Home Pro, and many others...... off the hook.

The Tricare office at JUSMAGTHAI helped me with all the paperwork. Since I stayed in the hospital for 16 days, they sent a promise note to CM Ram that they would pay the 75% of my hospital bill.

Richard,

That's encouraging news, as I thought we retirees had to pay upfront, then mail somewhere in Wisconsin for reimbursement. But if JUSMAG can not only negotiate Tricare rates, but also pay the 75%, this is great news!

Did staying in the hospital for 16 days have something to do with this -- or would JUSMAG ensure we'd also get Tricare rates for outpatient care? (I wouldn't mind paying upfront -- as long as I knew I wasn't overpaying the Tricare cap.)

There is nothing new in DCC in Thailand, and major establishments have been cashing in on it for a considerable time now

However, by specifically using the CM forum section, I was trying to give a 'heads up' on the local flavor of this scam. Hopefully, others will warn of their entanglements with CM merchants who are using DCC. Sorry to be repetitive for those aleady in the know.

By the way Jim, did you work as a DD, once upon a time..?

Uh, dunno... What in the world is a "DD?"

A note on dynamic currency conversion

Many merchants overseas have the ability to convert your purchase to the currency of the card's country of issue for you before charging it to your credit card. If a merchant offers this "service," you should almost always decline it, since the rates of conversion used are frequently much worse than any fees you'd incur for having the charge run in the local currency. Examples of rates up to 6.5% worse than those subsequently charged by the card company have been seen.

Some merchants (particularly higher end restaurants and merchants in more-developed parts of Asia and Europe) may even convert your purchase without asking you. Always check your receipt, and if you see anything involving your home currency in a country that doesn't use that currency, ask the merchant to re-do the transaction in the local currency. In some cases, the merchant may claim that their credit card terminal automatically does the conversion, but Visa/MC merchant agreements generally require the merchant to offer transactions in local currency.

Visa's spokeswoman has been quoted in the media saying that Visa "requires the merchant to disclose the fee and must provide the consumer with a choice" of getting the bill in dollars or the local currency.

Note that this can also happen when the billing currency of the card is the same as the country where the card is being used. For example, a UK-issued EUR-denominated card is automatically charged in GBP when DCC is applied by a merchant in the Eurozone. There is a electronic identifier on each card showing the country of issue (as opposed to the card's billing currency) and it is this identifier that DCC uses.

On Feb 7th, the wife used the new Rimping Supermarket for the first time. Usually, we use the two older stores -- and never have had a problem with the Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) scam. In fact, looking at the credit card slips, the two older stores don't even have the DCC option. (See the following post if DCC doesn't ring a bell.)

But I hadn't briefed the wife on DCC, and when she checked out of the new Rimping, they used DCC, instantly converting to dollars. The dollar amount was posted on the slip, along with the conversion rate and Thai baht amount. But they never asked if she wanted 'Thai baht or foreign currency,' as Visa and MC say they're supposed to. And even tho' the wife knew there was something a little different about the credit slip, she signed anyway, as, I suspect, would many folks have done if not fully aware of DCC.

Result. She paid over 7% more than she would have if she had been given -- and used -- the option for Thai baht!!! (The exchange rate they used: 32.573. The Interbank Exchange rate used by MasterCared that day: 34.90.)

Interestingly, on the credit slip, next to the signature, it says: "I have chosen not to use the MasterCard currency conversion process and agree that I will have no recourse against MasterCard concerning the currency conversion." Ah, now an ironclad screwjob, as before this was added apparently some disenchanted customers had gone after MasterCard for their 'overpayments.' Now, door shut.

The same day I bought a Nok Air ticket at the airport, using my MasterCard. The credit slip I signed had no dollars mentioned, but the signature line had the following: "I have choosen (sic) not to pay in USD but to settle the payment in THB." This statement, which I confirmed later, means the particular merchant *has* the DCC option, but the option was not used, either because the customer requested Thai baht only, or because (as in the Nok Air case) the merchant automatically gave the better deal to the customer.

Home Pro in CM will automatically use DCC -- unless you insist on Thai baht only. I had to get a supervisor to drive the point home with a particular cashier, but have had no problems since. A cashier even explained about how 'button 1' is for Thai baht only,' while 'button 2' is foreign currency. And that management 'would like us to use button 2.' I bet they would....!!

I have subsequently talked to a supervisor at the new Rimping, and she assures me the cashiers have been briefed about the customer's right to insist on Thai baht only. But I haven't been back to check it out. Would really be nice if the stores would do what they're supposed to and ask up front: "Thai baht or foreign currency?" Easier than having to void a slip that comes out in dollars and asks me to waive my rights.

So far, the 3 merchants mentioned above are the only ones I know of using DCC -- but I'm sure there are many others out there -- or will be. But so far I personally know that Carrefour, Robinson's, and Global don't -- or at least didn't as of January.

so I did try to get Ram cashier to charge my Visa Debit at Schwab in dollars in hopes of ensuring an onshore conversion rate

Be glad Ram *didn't* charge you in dollars, as that would have meant they've signed up for Dynamic Currency Conversion, which to use the new Rimping Supermarket as an example, would have cost you an additional 6.5%!!! As it turned out, you were lucky to be using a Visa Debit card, as their Plus network is using the more favorable onshore exchange rate. (MasterCard/Cirrus, on the other hand, are using the offshore rates, which are very unfavorable these days.)

They would only accept Visa card for payment.

PTE, Was this a Visa card from a US bank? If so, was the charge strictly in baht -- and did you have to remind them not to convert to dollars? (I ask because some hospitals in Bangkok are using the dynamic currency conversion scheme, whereby instant conversion winds up costing you 5-6% more -- and they're not giving the option of baht only, as is supposedly required.)

Richard, I seem to remember you're retired military. So, is the insurance you used Tricare? If so, did the hospital bill Tricare for you -- and you only had to pay your 25% co-share?

Thanx.

I would have thought that was obvious

If it was obvious, I (and Khun Bob) would not have asked..... Sure, it's easy to figure out in general terms what you asked. But Mr. Lock says that whatever you asked "doesn't apply." Hard to fit 'general terms' against that.

Anyway, maybe Mr. Lock doesn't appreciate "attitude" -- and maybe that's why he blew you away.

So whilst you're information is interesting it does not apply,

topfield, just what 'interesting' information did you provide him? I can't seem to find anything searching your posts here.

You are using a Nationwide Cash card . This uses the Cirrus network that clearly applies the offshore rate.

And so does MasterCard. But I put my Bank of America Visa away because they were charging a 3% foreign transaction fee, while my particular MC does not. But, when you compare the offshore with onshore rates, I guess......

Then, I have to deal with Dynamic Currency Conversion these days, that wonderful scam that adds 6.5% to my bill if I'm not careful......

I think I need a drink..........

Apparently, it's because of the current demarcation between 'offshore' and 'onshore' rates, with holders of foreign plastic getting the less favorable 'offshore' rate. This rate can be found at oanda.com, at least the Interbank Exchange Rate version, which is what my US bank uses for foreign transactions.

The rates shown on Thai bank websites, including Band of Thailand, plus in the newspapers, are the 'onshore' rates. And there's a big difference these days between offshore and onshore.

Actually, the key rate, IMO, is the Interbank Exchange Rate (IER). This is the baseline rate used when using your homecountry credit card, debit card, or ATM card in a foreign country (discounted by the 1% foreign transaction fee charged by Visa/MC, which some banks add on to, while a few (very few) absorb and don't pass on).

The IER used to be fairly straightforward. But with the volatile baht, there now seems to be an "offshore" and an "onshore" IER. For example, Bank of Thailand is showing an IER of 35.77 baht to the $ for Feb 12, while Oanda.com is showing 33.70!! And it is this latter rate that now applies to my ATM and credit card usage in Thailand. So, showing the offshore IER would seem to be pertinent these days.

The second important rate IMO is the telex rate. This, historically, has been slightly lower than the IER, thus giving credence to using homecountry plastic over here -- if you have one of the few 'no fee' cards anyway. These days, however, it would seem wiring money makes sense, even with the fees on both ends. Why? B of T reported a telex rate of 35.66 yesterday. Compare this to the offshore IER of 33.70. Actually, no comparison.

So, I vote for also showing the telex rate, if that can be squeezed in.

So I thought, I could not go to immigration before that time, but maybe it is to be understood as: minimum 21 days remaining

Yes, the operative word is "minimum."

The only "maximum" situation I'm aware of is where you must wait 60 days into your 90 day Non Imm O entry (i.e., a maximum of 30 days remaining) before applying for an extension of stay. This doesn't seem to be enforced too much when you convert to a Non Imm O in-country. But in at least one case (in CM), the chap was told to come back in 60 days following the day he got his tourist visa converted to a Non Imm O.

Don't know if you have to go to an MFA Consulate specifically....? There is an honorary Thai Consulate in Portland, OR, which certainly would be closer to Washington State than LA. Worth checking out.

Another option is to just come to Thailand on her US passport and then get her new Thai passport in Thailand. If doing a border run after she receives her new Thai passport is not convenient (to clear the entry in US passport), she can easily get a one year extension of stay by virtue of being a Thai national. Then, when she next travels abroad, she can re-enter on her Thai passport.

then around March 1st. I can go to immigration and apply for a visa change from tourist visa to Non Imm O.

Why wait until March 1st?

Lopburi, I downloaded the form TM86 as per your link but it doesn't open properly in Word - looks like a formatting issue. Is there a pdf somewhere?

Click on the following for a pdf TM86: TM86

My MSOffice also won't read the TM86.doc correctly (English rolls underneath the Thai script). I do have a Thai font loaded, which MS Word recognizes. However, I believe I need to do what the following link suggests (but which I'm lacking some of the dll's necessary -- I don't have the original XP discs -- so I can't determine whether or not this is the problem).

Click Here

After the link comes up, scroll down to the Windows XP hyperlinks, then click there.

(Hope someone can verify this can correct the problem with MS Word reading Thai documents.....)

You can convert a tourist visa or entry without visa to non immigrant type if you meet the rules for extension of stay (and currently they are using the old rules so even 400k bank balance will do.

Uh, now I'm confused. North is querying about a retirement extension: how does "they are using the old rules so even 400k bank balance will do" apply? And even if he were asking about a [first time] extension based on marriage -- how would the 400k bank balance apply now that they've switched to the 40k income requirement for first timers? Obviously I'm missing something here.

I hope someone will be able to tell me if I need proof of expenditure or I just need the income statement from the embassy ?

North,

I'm sure Lopburi will correct me if I'm wrong, but 'proof of expenditure' doesn't seem to be a requirement for retirement extensions these days. In fact, having to show a bankbook when you qualify solely on having retirement income of 65k plus, isn't a strict requirement -- but seems to be asked for by many of the Immigration offices recently (with 200k being the highest amount I've seen being looked for).

And, it's recently been reported that 30-day visa exemption stamps can still be converted to Non Imm O visas in-country if you otherwise qualify for an extension of stay, which you apparently do. So, it would seem, a quick over and back border run could do the trick for you. (But, to be sure, I'd check with the Immigration office you're dealing with to see what sheet of music they're on.)

Maybe it has changed, but the CMai immigration office gave me a residence cert in October or November, to get my Thai driver's license, for free.

PB,

What info did they want to see, if any? Thanx.