JimGant

Strange that Washington was still using hand stamp visa in 2001

They had switched when I next got an 'O' visa in Dec 2002. And this time there was no argument over why I got only a 6-month duration -- the 1-year variety was issued without prompting.

But then there is always the error of the day so you could be right.

Nonimmigrant O Visa, Six Months

Lop,

The above link shows the 6-month 'O' visa, issued Jan 4, 2001, expired July 3, 2001. This only happened once, and I don't know if this was common then, or I just happened upon the immigration quirk-of-the-day. I think the price would have been the same had it been a 1-year model, as I recall getting a little irked when I didn't get it for one year. Oh well.

Gaz,

I think you're getting 'visa' and 'entry permit' mixed up. The first is issued by Thai embassies/consulates; the second by immigration.

Then there is the visas duration or "entry period permitted" which is the number of days the visa holder is allowed to be in the kingdom before the visa expires and they must then leave the kingdom, or obtain an extension

Here, you're talking about 'entry permit,' not visa. Also, you don't have to be a 'visa holder' to get a 30-day entry permit (for most countries).

It appears visas are issued in terms of months, while entry permits are by days. But both have day one as inclusive, e.g., visa is issued for one year on Dec 15 and expires on Dec 14th the next year -- good for 365 days (366 days in a leap year) inclusive of issue date.

Which brings up a question for the old hands here: If I enter Thailand on Dec 14th (which says "date of expiry" on my visa), is the visa still valid -- or do I need to arrive no later than Dec 13? Not that I would push it this close, but Dec 14th is day 365 of my visa duration, so I would think I'd be ok. However, older visas use to say: "must be utilized before 14 Dec." So, maybe you really only get a 364-day visa duration(?).

Also, when entry stamp says "Until 30 April 2004," I assume I can leave the country on 30 April without paying an overstay fine(?).

Oh, Doc, I once got a non-immigrant 'O' multiple entry good for only 6 months. This was a few years back from embassy in DC, and apparently was the policy of the day. All have been for one year ever since, however.

David,

Yes, it's the 'buying' rate you're looking for, i.e., what the Thai bank will 'buy' your British pounds for. If a Thai bank 'buys' 100 GBPs for x amount of baht, and 1 minute later you decide to 'sell' back all the x amt of baht, you'll get maybe 98 pounds back. The 'spread,' or forex profit margin, being the difference.

When wiring money, you usually get the telex rate. The following site shows 74.579 as the telex rate (as does the BB site) for 18 June.

http://www.bot.or.th/bothomepage/databank/.../exchange_e.asp

But this site shows one other figure that's useful -- the interbank exchange rate (in dollars, at this site). This is the very favorable rate used for ATM and credit card transactions; but it is disccounted by usually 1% for ATM transactions, and between 1 to 3% for credit card transactions, depending on the financial institution that issued your card.

The SWIFT rate (most telex transfers are between SWIFT coded institutions) is also the interbank exchange rate -- but only for huge sums of money that only Thaksin is familiar with. So, the telex rate is the one to watch for wire transfers -- and it's the rate in effect when the money arrives, not when sent.

According to Thai web site BBk are buying Pound Sterling notes for 75.49Bht!

Just who's trying to buy your pounds for 75.49bt? It's not Bangkok Bank (BBk?), as Lop's link shows. Is George Soros back in Thailand?

In the States, many trucking firms put a sign on the back of their trucks, "How's My Driving? Call: 1-800 xxxxxxx." Don't know how effective this is, but if you're a Yank, you're well familiar with seeing this. And there have been a few humorous takeoffs of this as well.

I can't read Thai, but if they put my favorite humorous takeoff on their trucks, it would read: "How's My Driving?" Call: 053 - GIN KEY."

Seems rather appropriate -- except you'd have to be going about the same speed as the truck to read it -- which is not likely.

I really don't know how easy it would be for someone else to use my card, The bank knows me and always has to see my passport or my thai drivers license with my passport number before they will piss a drop on any transactions.

A few years back, someone obtained my credit card number (a restaurant waiter? I don't know.) and made a duplicate card. I first learned of this when this phony was used in San Diego -- but I had used the real card in Virginia the same day. My card company caught the discrepancy, called me, then cancelled the phony charge and issued me a new card. Had this been a debit card, would my bank have put the stolen money back in my account -- or would I have to wait while matters took their course? And had this thief done his business in Virginia, and it was a debit card, I might not have known about it until my bank account was empty. With a credit card, at least your bank is not debited until you say so (either by monthly check or authorized direct debit).

Maybe I'm gun shy from this incident. But it seens safer to have separate ATM and credit cards (although maybe today there are safeguards in effect that would quickly restore your bank account after being fraudently debited. I don't know). However, the utility of transfering money from the States to Thailand with a debit card, as you do, has some real overriding attractiveness.

what I have seen on guarentees on stuff bought here I ain't to sure that your guarentee protection from your CC would do you much good here.

I would think my Visa credit card issued in the States would have all the guarantees for purchases in Thailand as in the US. And probably a Visa card issued by a Thai bank would too, since Visa has to stand behind the financial institutions it licenses. But I don't have any firsthand experience yet with Thai issued credit cards.

anyway going thru life worrying about what might happen just doesn't seem worth it to me.

Probably the bottom line. Life really is too short to worry about all the nitnoy crap that comes along.

meet 'em all; motor bikes, rice tractors, little farm lorries (with the same little diesel engine that the rice tractors use), buffaloes, saamlors, pickups loaded with water-melons, and various vendors using a sidecar attached to a motor bike.

Ah, but it's all part of the charm

Pro,

Would Bangkok Bank have accepted a stateside debit/ATM card with the Visa logo to make cash transfers? I.e., the only reason you switched banks was because of the 40k limit on ATM transactions?

My US bank tried to replace my ATM card with their "Suntrust Check Card." I said 'no' (although I may now change my mind knowing I can use it to transfer money to my Thai bank).

As Lop says, there are added dangers with a debit/ATM (DATM) card vice a plain vanilla ATM. The main danger is that since it can act as a 'credit' card, i.e., no pin required, just sign the slip, if someone gets your number and makes fraudulent purchases, the money is, presto, gone from your bank. Sure, banks today advertise 'zero liability' with their DATMs; but do they restock your bank account right away -- or do you fiddle around for several months with an empty bank account? With a credit card, no cash flow occurs when fraud occurs. Plus, with a credit card, you've got added warranty on most purchases, maybe frequent flier miles, etc. And with me, since I pay my Visa in full every period, it's just the same as a debit card, except I get up to a 60 day 'float' (although at today's interest rates, no big deal). No, I turned down their offer, as I didn't need a second 'credit' card with added liabilities. I guess if I did change my mind, I would keep it locked up in my Thai house, using it only to transfer funds from the States. Day to day, I would get a Thai ATM (not DATM) to use.

Running Kevin's numbers, it appears he pays the standard 1% foreign exchange fee that most credit and ATM card financial institutions charge. But some credit card issuers of Visa/Mastercharge charge 3% (possibly more), as I found out the hard way. So, it would be wise to ask before getting your DATM just what the foreign exchange fee is. My Suntrust ATM is the standard 1% -- but possibly their new DATM with the Visa logo now charges more than 1%. I haven't asked yet.

Oh, even at 1%, you're still ahead of the cost curve if you annually send one or two large chunks of change to your Thai bank. But having said that, having the 'option' of using a DATM to reload your bank account, if needed, certainly does seem attractive.

Driving a car on the left side of the road actually wasn't too much of a learning experience. But my car is an automatic transmission -- being nonambidextrous (is that a word?), I'm not really sure I could drive a stick shift while simultaneously weaving in and out of kamikaze traffic.

On the highway, I find staying in the right (fast) lane is the safest way to go. Yeah, you gotta watch your six for mach 2 macho types, then get over -- but this seems to be a lot safer than dodging all the Ray Charles types merging, or the slow food carts, or AT NIGHT, all the motorcycles trying to save electricity. But the main problem with right lane travel (cops have never been a problem) is on the older highways where the u-turn cutouts have NO indentation! Such is the case around Chiang Mai anyways, and watching out for protruding butts of turning cars can really get your attention.

The real eye opener, however, was my first time on the highway with a motorcycle. Staying left, natch, and doing my best to stay on the hard shoulder. Then, first time out, I see an approaching motorcycle on the hard shoulder. Almost disaster, until I figured out (somehow) that I was to pass to the RIGHT. So, I learned, driving on the shoulder has its own rules-of-the-road.

But, it's actually kind of fun anticipating all the nuances of driving in Thailand. I'm sure most of the close calls have been due to my lack of experience with Thai driving quirks -- but the great thing is that my screw-ups have not been met with even a horn or finger, let alone a .38, Stateside fashion.

Nice.

Pro, RDN,

I'm sure you guys are right, and it certainly makes sense that Thai immigration wouldn't care too much about movement velocity into the account.

I told myself not to rely on my memory, but I never can remember to remember that. Ah, senior moments.

Are you using a credit card issued by your Thai bank? If so, any noticeable differences from your farang credit cards? Can you pay your credit card bill via Internet, debiting your bank account?

RDN,

But now I have a Krung Thai bank account and use it's ATM card and top up every year from England using a SWIFT transfer

That would seem the way to go, as you sidestep any foreign exchange fees associated with non-Thai banks. A Krung Thai credit card, too, would seem prudent, saving on at least foreign exchange fees charged by non-Thai issued credit cards.

How often do you top up from England? To my thinking, one top up per year -- right before extension time in order to bring up to requirement level -- would be the best way to go. As such, you only pay one wire fee per year, not multiple fees (in my case, $50 per wire transfer).

However, if I understand what I read on this forum, Thai immigration likes to see multiple inflow activity to your bank account during the year. And, yes, we know what they're looking for. But I would think you would pass muster if your passbook showed a 13 month history as follows: -- initially brought up to requirement before last extension by a foreign transfer; then a series of ATM withdrawals during the next 12 months showing your ongoing expenses; and then right before renewal, another top up from abroad to bring you up to requirement level. And having such a 13 month history should seemingly work if in place prior to applying for your first ever long term visa extension.

Can't believe Thai immigration wouldn't be satisfied with the above. But, then again-------.

ando,

There was a thread here recently that pointed out some folks were getting a much lower exchange rate than they anticipated. For some, the reason was that they had checked the wrong block on the wire order, namely: they had checked the 'foreign currency' block, not the 'local currency' block. In your case, if you sent 'baht,' not Aussie dollars, you'd be in for a bad deal. I'm not sure why this is, nor whether your 10% situation is off the radarscope. But it might be something to consider.

RDN,

One last point, people who get their money from a bank outside Thailand using an ATM card MUST check the rate they are getting. But sit down first.

The ATM rate for cards issued on US banks is actually pretty fair. My bank (Suntrust), and most others I know of, use the "interbank exchange rate," which usually is in the running with the most favorable 'buy' rate. For June 10, it was 40.64 to the US dollar, while the Telex rate was 40.54.

http://www.bot.or.th/bothomepage/databank/.../exchange_e.asp

Yes, I pay a 1% fee for getting baht with my US ATM card, which lowers the effective exchange rate to 40.23. Then, tacking on the 2$ per transaction fee, the effective rate on a 20,000 baht withdrawal becomes about 40.07.

Because I pay $50 to wire money to Bangkok Bank from the US, I need to wire at least $4000 to make it worthwhile to live off my Bangkok Bank ATM card and not my Suntrust. And, of course, it's even more worthwhile if I send even larger chunks of money, like, one big chunk per year. Yeah, there are other considerations, like speculation risk and foregone interest. But it doesn't seem too important, particularly with today's paltry interest rates on my liquid accounts in the States.

But, back to subject, the ATM exchange rates haven't been too bad in my experience. Relatedly, credit card exchange rates are also usually around the 'interbank exchange rate.' BUT while most charge a 1% exchange rate fee, some charge more, and it's not usually apparent unless you run the numbers, or ask the card company. In my case, First USA Visa was charging me 3%, which escaped my knowledge for several months. I'm now with MBNA at 1%.

But I guess if I got a credit card from Bangkok Bank, I'd be even better off. But I haven't done that yet.

But the British Embassy letter does contain other information and

MAYBE ? will be asked for - even if one is applying on the basis

of Capital rather than Income?

Thanks, Roger. Don't know what the US embassy/consulate will put in any certification I request, other than I make x amount of dollars in a year. Sounds like your Foreign Service can 'anticipate' and thus can ease matters up-front with Thai immigration. What a nice touch -- would be "grateful for any assistance to extend stay in the Kingdom"

Heck, if Dutch can convert his foreign service types --- Hello, Colin Powell, I know your pretty busy these days, but------------.

Lop,

Finally, in addition to the usual functions of notaries related to oaths, affidavits and acknowledgments, U.S. consular officials authenticate documents, a governmental act, which is not performed by notaries in the United States.

Where'd you find that? Explains a lot, including why RDN's eyebrows raised, and why LA Consulate believes 'notarization' equates to 'certification of validity.'

Obviously, lawyers are at work here, trying to trick screw us. Just can't figure their angle with this one(?).

I paid 1900 Baht and had a piece of paper stapled into my passport informing me that I have to return in 90 days time

Does anyone know what you would need to do should you have to leave Thailand during that 90 day 'hold'? What kind of stamp would you need to get allowing you to reenter Thailand without a new visa, and to resume the 90 day countdown? Can you get the multiple entry stamp for 3800 baht at the same time you plunk down the 1900 baht per above, allowing you to leave Thailand during this 90 day interim period?

90 days seems like a lot of time to be put on 'hold.' Enough time for an emergency to crop up in farangland.

RDN,

Glad it all worked out for you regardless of how accomplished.

Interesting seeing the RTE in London's take on O-A requirements. Looks almost the same as that of the Los Angeles Consulsate -- except nothing about 'notarizations' of medical and criminal records.

Were you required to have your O-A paperwork officially blessed by anyone before submittal? If so, who?

I think LA is a little confused. Notarization means signature witness, and I don't think my doctor and police chief would accompany me to the notary's office. But they may mean some kind of official seal is required, so your experience would be helpful.

Thanks.

Pro,

Sorry to hear this. Apparently the poster who did have good luck with his debit card just happened to get the right branch and the right clerk to interpret rules in his favor. Kinda like immigration.

What really irks me is that there is in place with some European countries (well, at least Switzerland) the ability to transfer money to your Thai account strictly through the Internet. There's actually a cipher like machine involved when you do this from your home computer, so the extra wickets for security are in place. I have never seen, nor even heard about, such a system relative to US banks. I guess the wire fee folks have a good lobby.

RDN,

As for the financial aspects, sure, I had to have the 800,000 in a bank in Thailand in order to get the O-A visa in London

Seems to be some confusion over this. Others who have gotten O-A visas, at least in the States, have only had to show a dollar equivalent of 800k baht in their stateside banks. No requirement to have a Thai bank account -- until one year later at renewal time in Thailand.

Would make sense, however, that the Embassy/Consulate folks would honor amounts already in a Thai bank in lieu of amounts in your home of origin.

In theory, a benefit of the O-A is that you could obtain one without ever having been in Thailand. Then, once in Thailand, you have a year to decide whether or not the paradise your mates at the local bar described was correct or not.

Oh, almost forgot--

RDN,

have written down the whole process, with dates, that I went through to get here, and I often think about posting it on a site such as this but am a little wary that people will find it boring. If you are interested, I could do it... 

Please do! I've already built a house in Thailand, but can come here only in 75-day chunks several times a year (due to elderly parents in States). So, I'm currently using NI "O" multiple entry. But someday soon I'll need to decide on the O-A approach, so any and all info you have would be appreciated. Thanx.

maybe you underestimate the importance of being "turned down".

Good point. It's been discussed before on this forum about 'what if you flunk the physical and have already burned your bridges to home.' No one responded, which doesn't mean it hasn't happened. What does seem the consensus, however, is that if you develop problems after being here awhile ('awhile' not defined), immigration has the latitude to bend the rules for you. This would seem to be the other side of the immigration law coin: the whims of individual immigration officials can really annoy us -- but this flexibility can also work in our favor, if they choose.

Some interesting takes on the O-A visa from postings on this forum:

- Not as hard to accomplish as has been advertised, even at the notorious LA Consulate. (Can vary from case to case, of course.)

- One poster used an honorary consulate in the US, without difficulty, and his O-A visa was good for one year, with 'multiple entry' stamped on it. So, he's come in and out of Thailand several times since, each entry stamp good for 365 days.

- The above did not have to have the medical, criminal, and financial statements notarized, which is a stated requirement on embassy/consulate websites.

- Immigration is not that familiar with the O-A visa, and several posters had to call in higher horsepower at Don Muang to get the 365-day entry stamp.

And, as RDN says, you're preapproved before taking the leap. Sounds like it might be worth going thru the extra hoops (e.g, criminal check) for the resulting peace-of-mind.

Pro,

I'm curious too. I'm tired of paying $50 wire fee (although if I send more than $5000, I'm still money ahead since my bank (Suntrust) charges 1% for ATM transactions.)

We had a discussion here several months back about this, and one guy did use his debit card to transfer money (maybe where you got your idea). And the fees, as I recall, were very reasonable. So, yes, please let us know what happens, particularly since I too have an account with Bangkok Bank.

I seem to recall there's a Bangkok Bank branch in New York City. Don't know if they can do what you want, but might be worth a try.

Pro,

While there is much information on various threads in Thaivisa that a combination of pension and bank account to meet the minimum requirement on an annual basis is allowed, latest information suggests that that is not going to be allowed

Still hard to get a straight answer on this. Nongkhai immigration's website says you CAN still combine pension and bank account; and when alerted to the Phuket immigration captain saying 'no, you could not,' Nongkhai got huffy and blamed the Phuket Gazette! Go figure.

This can be found at:

http://www.thaiimmigration.com/inv/index.php?showtopic=82

Hard to tell how 'official' the Nongkhai website is.