JimGant

i use my bangkok debit card in thailand .Do i get charged the 3 % charge if it a debit there

No, as the 1 to 3% fees you allude to are "foreign transaction" fees, in your case, buying something in baht, and being billed by your US bank in dollars. No foreign transaction takes place when using your Thai bank debit card, at least in terms of conversion.

A Thai debit card is an obvious way to avoid the DCC scam. The one drawback I'm aware of is getting your account replenished after a fraudster dips into it.

Thai citizens holding "dual citizenship". they do not seem to be affected by the restrictions on "foreign" ownership of property.

That's because their Thai citizenship trumps their foreign one. Have never seen or heard about any detriment to holding dual citizenship (unless you consider military service liability).

2. A three month visa would not allow three months of money in account and thus allow extension if you did not have bank account prior to arrival - anyone planning to use bank account method should plan on at least one extra arrival prior to extension of stay.

Lop,

Isn't this a situation where converting a 30-day stamp or Tourist Visa in-country would be superior? It seems from what a couple of posters said ("after converting to a Non Imm O, Immigration said to come back in no less than 60 days if you want to apply for an extension") that the 90-day permtted to stay clock begins on date of conversion, not date of last entry into Thailand. If this is the case, then you wouldn't have to have that one extra arrival prior to extension. Admittedly, with a 30-day stamp, you would be a little cramped (assuming the 21-days before expiration criteria), having to set up that bank account in the first few days after arrrival, then having to wait until the last week of your 90-day permitted to stay period to apply for the extension (to allow for the required period of funds in the bank).

Anyway, it's the part about the 90-day clock restarting at conversion date, and not from last date of entry, that seems out-of-character. I probably misinterpreted what the 'come back in 60 days' implied -- I assumed it meant 'come back when there are 30 days (or less) remaining on your permitted to stay period'.......thus indicating the clock restarted(?).

Also, if you did come in on a Non Imm O, then opened a bank account (but then didn't have the requisite 90-day maturing period), wouldn't Immigration (well, some anyway) give you a "one month under consideration" to accomodate this shortfall?

Went yesterday to the Rimping on Maejo Road that ripped off the wife in Feb (beginning of this thread). Asked the clerk about Dynamic Currency Conversion, and she said that function was taken out awhile back, as too many customers complained and the clerks got tired of voiding and redoing credit charges. So, I no longer have to waste my breath with "baht only" when I hand over my credit card, at least there.

Will check out Home Pro -- another offender -- next time.

Used Siam TV today, but paid cash, so don't know their latest status.

Rooting out crime wherever I find it........

Give the guy 50 baht and thank God it's not you! Thank him for letting you know how lucky you are /quote]

Must be a typo. According to rainman, you wanted 500 baht...............

3.2 Have not less than 800,000 baht deposited in any Thai bank account (savings or fixed-term account) for not less than three months before the application date. Account name must be only in the applicant's name or may be a joint account in the name of the applicant and his/her registered married spouse only.

This quote was shown on this forum earlier, attributable to the Krabi Immigation Office. The question was raised -- was this local -- or national -- dictate? No one seemed to know.

Yesterday, the exact same paragraph number and quote was submitted on this forum, but this time attributable to the Phuket Immigration Office.

So, joint accounts by married couples are allowable per guidance from big daddy Immigration.

Which is not very helpful for those denied married joint accounts by CM and Pattaya Immigration.

So much for national dictate.

Have not seen any post that combined pensions have been accepted - as Embassy letter is issued to a passport rather than a family that would probably prevent it happening

However, at least in the case of a US citizen, the "income" statement you swear to says: "He/She affirms that he/she receives in amount of US$__ every month from the United States Government and/or other sources."

"Other sources" could be a lot of things, including money gifted from your spouse, which is unlimited for US tax purposes.

Nothing unethical about this, assuming your spouse actually does 'give' you the dollars required. This could be nothing more than, "Here, darling, deposit this check into our account." (But, if Immigration someday gets around to checking sources, a notarized letter from the spouse attesting to the gift should do the trick.)

And, of course, this does not violate Immigration's spirit that '65k/mo or an 800k bank acct' is meant to cover *both* married members.

Sounds like you've got all bases covered, and then some. You must really annoy the Immigration Officer looking to send you packing.

Add in that Americans get an $85K (a few years ago - maybe it's gone up) allowance before tax when not living in the country

The "foreign earned income exclusion" is just that: for 'earned income.' Dividends and interest *don't* qualify.

Fact: If you bring in a million baht three months before your renewal date, have 800k on the renewal date, and drain it down for the next nine months, you will earn (only) about 5,000 to 6,000 baht non-taxable interest.

Yes, that wonderful .75% interest rate on savings acccounts (at least at Bangkok Bank). But, as I note you're a Yank, this 6000 baht *is* taxable on your Federal return. Not that this does anything to change your argument here, nor would you probably be found-out, as there are no 1099-INT forms involved. But, since you mentioned wiring amounts of "$10,000," you're supposed to file a Form TD F 90-22.1, "Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts," since you've now crossed the magical 10k threshhold. Does this info go to the IRS? Dunno (the form is sent to another Treasury shop). But it's not too much of a stretch to think the Feds are joining their databases to check on compliance. Anyway, point being, next step is IRS involvement, so maybe paying taxes on your nitnoy Thailand interest earnings might be prudent. (At least file your TD F 90 blah blah, as the penalties for not doing so sound serious.)

Back to the subject: As pointed out, some plastic (notably Nationwide) makes ATM and credit/debit purchases in Thailand superior (because you get the Interbank Exchange Rate) to wiring funds (which gets the Telex rate, about 15 satang less) and then using your local ATM and credit/debit card. Even card companies like mine (USAA Federal Savings), which passes on the Cirrus 1% foreign transaction fee, but doesn't add anything to it, comes out ahead for credit charges, as they have a 1% rebate for all charges, thus nullifying the foreign transaction fee. Others out there, primarily credit unions and the like, are similar.

However, there's no rebate for ATM use, so here's where I come out ahead by wiring money in excess of $5000 in order to amortize front and back end fees, and thus break even with an ATM withdrawal at the Interbank Exchange Rate, less 1%.

Sure, the more I wire, the better I come out against a similar ATM withdrawal. But, if I then start plugging in figures based on opportunity cost (lost interest on wired money), lost tax deferred values (if I wired IRA/401k cashouts), blah blah blah, it all starts to become convoluted -- especially, as one poster points out, when the only game really worth watching is the exchange rate charade.

Yeah, if I'd wired all my expected expense money a year ago, I'd be a genius. If the baht had gone the other way, ........

So, looks like how we now do our annual extension might just depend on: Will it be a bigger pain in the butt to journey to Bangkok for an MFA income certifcation; or will keeping 800k in the bank, along with additional, annoying paperwork (and, oh yeah, opportunity costs) be the way to go.

At least a choice for those of us who have both options.

Why too simple? Is there something illegal with my suggestion?

Not illegal, it's just that the arbitrageurs have gotten there first. Plus, their profits, if any, were courtesty of huge amounts involved, instantaneous trading, coupled to fantastically small spreads.

Sure, 1 GBP buys more baht today than 1 USD. But, it also costs more USDs to get 1 GBP today, so with 1 USD you'll still end up where you began in terms of baht (and probably with less after you figure in the buy/sell commissions). You might luck out with your bag of GBPs enroute to Thailand if the USD further depreciates against the pound. But this is pure currency speculation, and it's not for the weak at heart, or for those who can't afford it.

why worry about bad dollar/baht exchange rate?

Since you're in the States, go to a large commercial bank & buy pounds, with your US dollars, and bring the pounds back to Thailand where you'll, receive a much more favorable rate than dollars.

simple solution

Too simple, I'm afraid.

$35 dollars for a wire transfer is outrageous. I've never paid over $18 for a wire transfer

It is outrageous; but seems nice when compared to the $50 my Suntrust bank wants.

Worldwide interbank exchanges via the Internet should be the norm, not the exception. The US seems to be behind in this regard based on what my European friends tell me. Wire transfers are just plain inefficient.

The worst that can happen would probably be getting only a single entry Non Imm O. This happened to me the first time I got a Non Imm O at the Thai Embassy in DC. Others that day fared the same. Reason: Just because they can do it.

. They offer me a Tourist Visa, which is unlikely, and then still apply for Non-Imm O on basis of marriage.

My wife is saying that I can change a tourist visa to a Non-Imm O at Bangkok Immigration after paying the fee.

What are you thoughts on this one???

Only if you qualify otherwise for an extension of stay based on either marriage (meaning, you and wife have a monthly cash inflow of 40K baht) or retirement (at least age 50, 65k monthly cash flow or 800k in bank). Hopefully you qualify for one of these extensions, otherwise, even with a multi entry Non Imm O, you'll have to do border runs every 90 days. You're not too explicit with your plans, but I doubt 90-day runs fit nicely into whatever they are.

Plenty of info on extensions on this forum, as this subject is a popular moving target.

If you're going to LA just to get a visa, bad move. They're historically known as a**holes. All the 'official' Thai Consulates (LA, NY, and Chicago), plus the Embassy in DC, can get too bureaucratic on you for no reason at all. You're dealing with Thais, and since they hold the hammer, they know they can jerk you -- and they often do. Plus, if you're doing this in person rather than by mail, you're talking two trips, with all the logistical/parking problems involved.

As already suggested, use (via mail) the honorary consulate at Houston (several others, like Dallas, El Paso, and Portland also have good reputations, but I personally know Houston is topnotch). Call ahead or email for confirmation of what you need; but from personal experience, you'll need: application (they'll send you one after you contact them per above); two photos; copy of marriage certificate (your US marriage certificate suffices; copy of wife's Thai ID or Thai passport; $150 for multi entry visa; and a self-addressed, postage-paid return envelope (I used registered mail to make sure the mailman didn't leave the returned passport in my leaky mailbox). Several days later, the passport will be returned with your visa. The only legwork for me was the 5 minute trip to the postoffice for the initial send.

I used to use the Embassy, which was a stonesthrow away, but an hour -- twice -- in traffic. Last time I used them, they charged me full price for a multi entry Non Imm O, but it was only vald for 6-months, vice the normal one-year. Thus, my a**hole designation. Have used Houston ever since.

All the honorary consulates are staffed with locals, as the "honorary consulate" function is just a side attraction (Houston, like many, is a law office in real life). So, dealing with them eliminates the language and cultural barriers (well, ok, they are in Texas .) Here are the Houston particulars, and contact:

Julie M. Richardson

Honorary Vice Consul for the Kingdom of Thailand

c/o Tindall & Foster

600 Travis, Ste. 2800

Houston, TX 77002

PH: 713-335-3907

Email: [email protected]

And, like USAA (info I sent you in another thread), these folks are a pleasure to deal with (maybe it's the Texas connection......).

Good luck.

USAA Federal Savings Bank is topnotch. I have both a checking and savings account, but use the savings account for ATM withdrawals here in Thailand. There is no 'per event' charge and you'll get the Interbank Exchange Rate, which is the best you can do (less a 1% foreign transaction fee for using the Cirrus network). You'll get all this with their checking acount too, of course, but like most checking accounts, it doesn't pay interest of any note.

Talk to USAA about what your daily needs may be, as their cap may be too low for you (I easily raised my daily limit). And, have a notation made that you'll be using your plastic in Thailand (so they don't mistakingly sense fraud).

If larger amounts are needed, wiring money from USAA is easy. It costs $35, so you'll need to wire an amount over $5000 to come out ahead, which will also amortize Bangkok Bank's 500 baht fee. You'll get the"Telex" rate, which is a few satang less than the Interbank rate --- but actually superior when you factor in the Cirrus foreign exchange fee, which is not charged for wires.

If you plan to wire -- or even as a contingency -- talk to USAA and set up a template for their files. With this, you then call a local Thai number, giving you toll free to San Antonio, where you have them bring up the template with all the particulars on it, then just give them the amount you want sent. Do this 9:00 pm Thailand time, it will be here next afternoon (my experience). If you don't set up a template, you can also walk them through a wire transfer verbally -- or send a fax. But, the template approach is very efficient.

The USAA website has a FAQ page about wire transfers.

No, don't buy baht in the States (you'll get the ludicrous offshore rate). And, in fact, on that template I mentioned above, make sure you indicate "Send dollars, not baht."

They also wanted the receipts of the foreign transfers that we get from Bangkok Bank when we wire funds from the USA into our Bangkok Bank account.

Are these receipts that you specifically reqest from BB?

When we wire money, BB doesn't send us a receipt. We verify that it has arrived using BB's Internet banking. Then, when we get around to it, we update the passbook, where the code "FTT" (foreign telex transfer?) appears next to the wired amount.

You would think a passbook would provide all the information Immigration needs, including current balance. But no, Immigration, like all bureaucrats, loves killing trees.

Bangkok Bank will take a certificate of residency in lieu of a work permit, plus you need a Non Imm visa.

Certificates of residency can be obtained from your Embassy/Consulate, and from Immigration if you're on an annual extension of stay. The latter is (or used to be) free.

There is no requirement for documents there but immigration could ask for them.

If Thai Immigration wanted to see verification of monthly "income," you would appear to be on solid ground if you could produce W-2s and 1099s showing gross receipts averaging at least 65k baht/month. Sure, this "gross" amount could be a negative "net" amount after taxes, investment basis, and other expenses are factored in. But "gross" appears to be the operative word when Thai Immigration is looking at cash flow. In fact, even those embassies (eg. British) that ask for documentation before they'll attest to your "income" are only looking for gross amounts.

Immigration is looking for positive cash flow to meet their arbitrary 65k requirement. If you can't get there from here with your 1040 tax form (because of the "net" bottom line), then dazzle them with other, supporting paperwork. Just be sure you circle the gross amounts -- and be prepared to explain away other blocks (like tax, insurance, and alimony deductions).

But, Thai Immigration doesn't appear to be anywhere near this curiosity level yet, and probably never will be. In fact, there are very few reports of Immigration requiring anything *but* the Embassy/Consulate certification of income.

In my younger days, it used to mean 1-2 hours......

I've been told that my partner cannot get the Non-imm-O within Thailand.

Sounds like the folks in the Sydney Consulate have their head up and locked. If your partner meets all the retirement requirements, which he apparently does, since he's met all the hoops for an O-A, except police report, then he can get a Non Imm O in Thailand, followed by a retirement extension. (And NO police report required.)

He'll need to transfer money into Thailand, if going the bank account route, or once in Thailand, have the Australian Embassy verify his income. Neither of these steps is a show stopper -- and can be combined, if needed.

Plenty of threads explaining all of this. Here's the latest......

Retirement Visa

I was carrying a Tourist Visa that still had 26 days remaining. .......Came back as requested at 4:00 and picked up my passport (with Non-Imm stamp) got a multi-entry stamp on the spot - to boot, and was told to come back after 60 days if I wanted to extend the Visa to one year.

I guess I had not realized that getting an in-country Non Imm O starts the 90-day 'permitted to stay' clock from date of issue, not original entry date..... As such, this would seem a nice workaround for the catch-22 for someone entering on a Non Imm O for the purpose of retirement extension, but then running out of time before his new 800k bank account reaches the required 3-month anniversary, thus requiring a border run (and the added expense of needing a multi-entry Non Imm O).

So, entering either on a tourist visa or 30-day exempt stamp, depositing 800k in a Thai bank account, then applying for a Non Imm O for the purpose of retirement extension would seem superior to getting a Non Imm O abroad, then having to do a border run due to the 800k/3-month requirement.

The OP didn't use the 800k option, but I would think (maybe erroneously) that Immigration would allow a new 800k account as sufficient criteria to issue an in-country Non Imm O, since the 3-month requirement is for 'extension,' not the enabling Non Imm O visa. So, if I'd opened my new 800k bank account 10 days after arrival, applied for a Non Imm O on day 34 (same as OP), the Immigration Officer would then tell me to 'come back after 66 days' if I wanted to extend the Visa (66 days would then have the bank account being 3-months old).

Naaaa. Too simple.

conversely if i get 65k a month or more i dont have to show savings?

chai mai?

Correct.

Officially correct. However, some (most?) Immigration Offices like to see a bank book. How much they want to see in that bank book depends on the phase of the moon. So, best to show up with a bankbook even if you meet the 65k/mo criteria.

Our friend is expecting another receipt from Australia, equal to several million baht. Since it appears he is now able to hold foreign-denominated funds in a Thai bank in Thailand, he's instructed his lawyer to send the money in AUD

The prevailing wisdom, even before this current huge offshore/onshore spread, was to wire 'home country' currency and have it converted to baht on the Thai end. (And, conversely, wire baht to the 'home country' -- if possible, which it doesn't seem to be under current conditions.)

So, even if your friend's money will sit in a foreign-denominated fund, or will be converted to baht upon arrival, he should send AUDs.

I walked into the SCB a few months ago and asked if I could send money to Australia. Not problem was the reply,

Yes, but did you send 'baht' or 'AUDs?' If the conversion to AUDs was done in Thailand -- which seems to be the requirement -- then you lost in the neighborhood of 10% with the prevailing offshore/onshore spread of around 3 AUDs.

Sending baht abroad is what the OP is trying to figure out, and for good reason. But, can't get there from here seems to be the answer.......