JimGant

Bronco,

Wife has bank account with BKK bank, we can transfer money via internet if need be,

I thought the Internet transfers with BKK Bank were only intra BKK Bank accounts? I would love to be able to transfer money from my US bank account to my BKK Bank account(s). But I wasn't aware I could do this--------.

Max,

The thread I highlighted referencing "marriage registration" was done intentionally, as there are several threads out there on this subject. This particular thread is a real back-and-forth discussion on pros and cons of registration, as well as other areas, such as translation of foreign marriage certificates. The bottom line: I'll need my marriage certificate only to apply for one year extensions of visa, based on marriage. A certified English language (or American or Ozie ) marriage certificate might be sufficient (per Dutch's comment on that thread), but I'll have it translated into Thai just the same. Registering with the Amphur is thus not required. As far as that would show my wife's "committment," well, 25 years of non-Amphur-registered marriage and gray hair is quite sufficient, thank you.

As regards the landlord gig, that's the reason I started this thread. Writing the Will to allow me, as Executor, to have several options is where I'm headed (I won't rehash, as this appears earlier in this thread). Besides, if the dollar keeps crashing, I might just sell here and buy that golf course property I dreamed of in Kauai, Hawaii.

Strongly advise you talk to a lawyer and get some "Paid" advice. It doesn't cost alot but can save a big problem later.

Good advice. I'm getting all my questions (and proposed answers) lined up, and this forum certainly has been helpful in doing so. And ###### has recommended to me a good lawyer to see here in CM, which I will follow up on. Many thank ITM.

CJ,

See this thread re marriage registration in Thailand.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...gistration&st=0

I'm comfortable that we DO NOT need to register our marriage (performed in the US) in Thailand. But I stlll have my ears cocked for counter arguments.

Moreover, whoever is your future new landlord will has the right to overwrite the old lease contract you had with you thai wife .

This is 180 degrees out from what those of us with 30-year leases have been told by lawyers and Land Offices. Is the source of your info other than hearsay?

Just be sure to ask the lawyer how he/she arrived at the rental figure (You have to provide the Land Office with the total rental value; they then take a percentage of this, which you then pay. It was either 2 or 5%, I forget which.)

I say this because our neighbors hired a lawyer to accomplish the 30-year lease. What they got in return for a 10,000 bt fee was the privilege of paying far too much to the Land Office, plus a translation of the lease into English.

How do we know? The wife, in preparing for our lease, went to the Land Office and nicely asked what was a fair rental value for our property. The figure they provided was way below what our neighbors' lawyer had come up with, and this for a similar property (they had given us copies of all their paperwork). In fact when the wife asked the Land Office guy is this was legal, he smiled and said we could pay more if we liked, but it wasn't necessary. The guy got a well-earned 'tip' from us when the lease was drawn up.

I doubt the lawyer got anything from the Land Office for this: the money paid is all recorded, so doubtful any of it slipped under the table. Just laziness, I imagine. No effort to do their own checking with the Land Office. This law office has probably been using the same rental values for years.

So. if you do get a lawyer, make sure you, wife, lawyer, and land office have a discussion on rental values. Also, remember Thai law degrees are undergraduate affairs. So get a lawyer with plenty of experience.

Oh, I'm not where I can get to our paperwork, or I would provide the rental values we received.

Are you sure you need to leave Thailand to get your "O" visa? Yes, there's been a lot on this forum about the requirement to get Non Immigrant visas only out of Thailand at their Embassies or Consulates. But could this be old information? I seem to remember at least one guy on this forum who did succeed in getting his Non Imm "O" in Thailand. And recently I came upon the following online at Thailand's 'oldest law firm.' (But possibly not the greatest -- I wouldn't know.)

Change of Visa

The Thai government gives foreigners who did not get a chance to apply for a Non-Immigrant visa before arriving in Thailand the opportunity to change their visa if they need to stay in Thailand. This procedure may be carried out within the country. An eligible foreigner must have entered with a Tourist or a Transit visa issued by a Thai Embassy or Consulate abroad. The foreigner must apply for a change in type of visa not less than 30 days before the current visa is due to expire. Various documents are needed depending on the purpose of the application for a Non-Immigrant visa.

The above was from page 63 of a well written summary of Thai law. The link is:

http://www.tillekeandgibbins.com/Publicati...cs/taxation.pdf

If you're here on a visa (not the 30-day no-visa-needed entry), then this could work for you. Possibly the law firm has given its best shot in interpreting a losely written piece of legal code, one that's open to a more restrictive interpretation by Immigration Offices. Anyway, it would seem worth while to check out in-country.

Oh, one other thing I saw perusing Google on this subject was that Vientiane, unlike Penang, seems to only issue single entry Non Immigrant visas. Not a problem if you plan to go for the one-year Marriage or Retirement extension. But if this isn't the case, and you don't have any luck getting the visa in Thailand, then Penang would seem a better choice (they do issue multi-entry)

Good luck.

Thanks Cathy. You might be refering to the concept of "usufruct." But, anyway, my lease allows me to stay on the property. My concern is who's going to be my landlord and how much control I have in the matter.

Max,

Looks like you encountered a new interpretation of lease law.

Our land office knew we were married when we acomplished the lease, but that didn't make any difference with them. Ditto for some other friends of ours. Our marriage isn't registered in Thailand (wedding in States), but the land office wouldn't know that. But, again, they didn't care.

Looks like land offices, like immigration offices, can get creative with the law. Too bad you can't change your land office.

There was a thread about this on this forum awhile back. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...&hl=inheritance

Typical lawyer argument. But the argument that "having two wills" could revoke one or the other was enough for me. So it seems logical -- and very legal -- that rewriting our US Wills to account for Thai nuances is the way to go. One Will, nuances of two countries accounted for.

The following is from a well-known Thai law firm.

http://www.tillekeandgibbins.com

QUOTE: "The law recognises several methods for preparing the will. First, the will can be holograohic, that is, the donor writes it in his own hand with the date and his signature on it. No witnesses are required. UNQUOTE

So after we reaccomplish the wife's US Will with Thai nuances, have it blessed and witnessed in the US, then we'll have it written (actually, translated) into Thai.

But why pay a lawyer to do this? Thailand accepts holographic Wills (per the above paragraph), so why not just have the wife write in her own hand a translation of our US Will, complete with all the Thai applicable nuances. This is NOT, then, a second Will, but just a holgraphic translation of her existing US Will. The preamble will state that this is "my last Will and Testimony, and is a direct translation of the attached English language Will and Testimony, dated blah blah." As far as Thailand is concerned, the wife has done more than required: a holographic Will written in Thai (all that's required), but additionally, has provided an attached certified-in-the-US Will, signed and witnessed. Overkill.

Anyway, this would seem to cover all the bases, but maybe the following:

I'll be the Executor of my wife's estate in both the US and Thailand. However, should we both be in the car when the Mach 1+ Bus hits, both our Wills will make arrangements for an Executor and Executor Agent to cover both countries.

Kan, thanks for your Phuket input:

"However, by naming your husband as the executor of your will ... this will be registered on the back of the land title deeds. That will give him the right to lease, sell or do anything else with the land, as long as he complies the instructions in your will. ”

This is good info. It implies to me that as long as the deed residing in the land office has my name as Executor on the back, they (the land office authorities) will be happy that they have recourse to collect taxes, whatever. The question remains, tho', how long can I do this? If there is no set time to retitle land after an owner's demise, then this could be a way around having to retitle, for many years at least, with a Thai relative.

Another thought. Why even have my niece named in the wife's Will? As long as the Will says I have complete control on the disposition of the land, I can then decide, as Executor, just how to do so as events unfold. Besides, the niece could be out-of-favor at that time. One option that comes to mind is, as Executor, establishing that bogus land holding corporation, with Thai majority ownership, that farangs use in lieu of the 30-year lease option.

Anyway, thinking out loud on this forum is at least lining up bullet points to share with a lawyer ... better than going in cold and having the lawyer lay out all the options (they're usually not as smart as they think, at least those in the States).

Personally, I think you have left it a tiny bit late to be thinking this now, but thats just my impression.

You might be right. I thought the 30-year lease thing would be sufficient. And the existing Will, albeit written in the US, should be valid here, at least according to legal feedback found earlier on this forum. And as Executor and inheritor of all, I felt ok about sorting out how to retitle the property. Anyway, for my enlightenment, and for those reading this who may not be so far along this road, what steps should have been taken earlier? Probably seeing a lawyer is one step, no doubt.

Facts:

Married to a Thai. We built a house on "her" property. I've got the 30-year lease to remain on the property should she check-out first. We're in the process of rewriting her Will to accomodate the fact that she can no longer leave "all her earthly possessions" to me (which was the case years ago when it was written) due to Thai law on foreign land ownership. First marriage for both, no children.

Plan of Attack:

Will indicate in Will that should Thai law still preclude my inheriting the property, that my Thai niece will take title. (It would be nice if Thailand had Trust provisions for property, with the niece being Trustee; but this nice bit of law from Mother England apparently doesn't exist here.)

Questions:

1. Is there anything legally enforceable we could put in writing that could exert some kind of control over the niece by me (other than the lease) even though she'll own the land free and clear? My thinking is, what if 10 years as a widower, I'd like to sell the property and move on? We will have a written agreement with our niece over such things as, I'll pay all expenses, taxes, etc. related to the property. And the niece would probably honor any request I made, including selling the land. But something giving me legal power would be nice. (But I have no real hope any such written agreement would have contractual legality under Thai law -- just hoping---.)

2. How long can land title remain in a deceased's name, i.e., what are probate time-frames in Thailand? (If I could wait a couple years, maybe the law would change in that time.)

3. I can own the house. Anything to be gained by leaving the buildings to me? Can the buildings have separate deeds same/similiar to those existing for the land?

4. Whose the best lawyer in Chiang Mai to address this?

5. What questions should I have asked (and had answered)?

Many thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

I started the day at 8AM at the embassy picking up my "letter from the embassy"

Roger,

What's this 'letter from the embassy' all about? I thought I had all the requirements memorized by now, but this doesn't ring a bell. But, then, I'm still recovering from New Year's.

which then get you only a 90 day single entry NonImmigrant visa -- the one year "O-A" status still has to be completed with Thai Immigration in Thailand

The link to the above is:

http://www.thai-la.net/visa/retire.htm

All I know about retiring in Thailand visa-wise I have gleaned from this forum. Let me summarize, and then let someone more knowledgeable critique.

It is not really an "either or" decision for the NonImmigrant "O" or the retirement visa. The first can lead to the second. Yes, you see advertised on Thai Embassy DC and Thai Consulate LA websites instructions for obtaining an "O-A" retirement visa. But as best I can tell, this is an unnecessary hassle, requiring notarized police, medical, and financial certifications which then get you only a 90 day single entry NonImmigrant visa -- the one year "O-A" status still has to be completed with Thai Immigration in Thailand. So, to avoid the medical and police check hassle, it's best to request a multi-entry NonImmigrant "O" visa and then complete the retirement one-year stay process in Thailand. As such, no police background check and *probably* no medical checkup would be required -- only the financial requirements. (I say *probably* on the medical as there seems to be some uncertainty on this requirement. But even if required, the cost and simplicity of getting a medical clearance in Thailand is far superior to doing so in the US).

Your main obstacle might be in obtaining the NonImmigrant "O" visa. Each Embassy and Consulate seems to have wide discretion on its issuance. Applying for one with reason being "retirement" might require nothing more than proof of financial ability and a clean appearance. However, at places like Los Angeles, I have a feeling they would require upfront the entire "O-A" gamut, i.e., police, medical, etal. Anyway, the subject of obtaining an NonImm "O" is covered widely in this forum. Search on "Houston" for a start.

Finally, you may not want to get the one-year retirement visa extension if you plan to be in and out of the country extensively (my situation). If you can't be here the same time every year (for renewal), or are here for only 90 day chunks or less, the NonImmigrant "O" (no "OA" status) would be, IMHO, the best choice.*

* Question for someone: Is "O-A" actually stamped in the passport when you receive one year extension authorization for either retirement or marriage purposes?

Marriage registration in Thailand can be of benefit in obtaining a non-O visa for marriage/support. I don't think you can qualify for that visa unless your marriage is registered in Thailand

Not true, at least in the US. Just a copy of my marriage certificate (and a letter from the wife affirming we're still married, plus a copy of her Thai ID card). I've done this several times at the RTE in Washington.

My marriage took place in the US, so of course the certificate is in English. Maybe if original marriage certificate is NOT in English, other rules may apply.

Thanks, Doc.

A copy of the foreign marriage certificate duly certified by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs will solve that problem.

Your Embassy or Consulate can certify both documents after a translator translates. ( for a fee of course ).

Doc,

Your answers above, both related to having foreign marriage documents certified as genuine, and their translation into Thai as also genuine, point to two alternatives. One, I can go to the US Embassy, or the US Consulate in Chiang Mai, for certification. Or, Two, I can have the Thai MFA, which I assume is also in Thailand, do the same certification. Can I also (Three) have this certification done in the Thai Embassy in Washington?

Just a little confused: On another thread, someone had mentioned they needed their divorce papers (as well as marriage papers) certified by the Thai Consulate in Chicago, with a certain colored stamp then affixed. This is all very unclear, but I don't want to have the wrong colored stamp when I waltz into Immigration for my visa extension.

Appreciate your help.

Went to the amphur to have the marriage registered in Thailand

KA1234,

Why did you feel the need to have your European marriage registered at the amphur? Does this open some future doors, perhaps towards permanent residency?

Dutch,

It really does get confusing for those of us trying to make the paperwork transition to Thailand. And doubly confusing, I'm sure, for those like you whose documents aren't in the often-accepted language of English.

At Thai immigration I'd bet I could get by with my English-only documents the majority of the time. But veterans here -- like Dr Pat Pong and Loburi3 -- point out that there's always the possibility the officer you happen to get may demand a Thai translation. So, I'm trying to find out how strenuous it is to do. Also, I'm only 10 minutes from the Thai Embassy in DC -- so if that turns out to be the easiest "competent authority" available, I'll just have to fight Key Bridge and Georgetown traffic -- but I'd prefer to gentler venue of Chiang Mai.

Someday someone with knowledge will build a FAQ page for this forum delineating in detail all the paperwork requirements for long-term stay in Thailand, caveated by: Must Have, Should Have, Nice to Have, and Rarely Required. Unfortunately, if not updated daily, it would become obsolete. No doubt that's why there's no such animal yet existing.

A copy of your US marriage cerificate needs to be certified as a true copy by a legally competent authority ( Thai Embassy or Consulate ) and you need to have the documents translated into Thai and also certified by a competent authority as credible translations.

Dr Pat Pong wrote the above a few months back.

Question for anyone: Can someone in Chiang Mai act as a "competent authority" in certifying a copy of my marriage certificate? DPP says "Thai Embassy or consulate," but assume he said so in the context of the thread initiator's location outside Thailand. So who, then, might be a "competent authority" in Chiang Mai?

Then I need to have it translated into Thai and have a "competent authority" certify that it is a "credible translation." Who might this be in Chiang Mai? Same guy as above?

Hopefully there is one "competent authority" location in Chiang Mai where I can bring my original US marriage license (eliminating the certified true copy step), have it translated into Thai, then have it officially blessed and stamped as a no shit translation of a certified US marriage license. But why, then, do I have this strange feeling that this would be too easy?

And if it turns out the competent authority is the Immigration Office, why then would I need it translated? I can just see me handing the original US marriage license to an officer, he translates it into Thai, certifies it, then processes my marriage visa extension. Gives a whole new meaning to circle jerk. Thus, this is probably the situation. Sigh.

Also, if I choose to use my pension in satisfying fiancial requirements, does my pension statement have to also be translated into Thai (after the Consulate certifies it as valid)?

Sorry to waste anyone's time on this, but searching under "translations" didn't offer much, except this thread.

Thanks for the quick reply and sound advice.

Lopburi3,

You've said before on this forum that you need to have 60 days of your 90 day visa go by before first applying for a one year extension based on marriage or retirement. Is this rule still in effect, and if so, how strenously enforced (particularly in Chiang Mai) is it, to your knowledge? Also, when the one year extension is granted, is 'day one' of this extension the day you last entered Thailand -- or the day the extension is granted?

When renewing this extension, does this 'no greater than 30 day' rule apply? And when is 'day one' for this renewal?

I haven't yet decided whether or not to extend my 'O' visa, as I currently come to Thailand four times a year in 60 day chunks, and the 'O' visa has worked just fine for that. But I can see situations where the one year extensions could be advantageous. But I can also see scenarios where I would have to leave Thailand 60+ days before the extension expires, and would not be back in time before its expiration. So an enforced '30 days or less' wouldn't work out.

Anyway, thanks for any advice you -- or anyone else -- can offer. Just trying to sort out my options

Jim Gant

Dr. Pat Pong,

In reviewing some earlier posts, I see where you say that marriage licenses should be translated into Thai prior to submitting to immigration for marriage visa extension. Is this still the case, to your knowledge, including those in English? And I assume it would have to be an official translation. Where and/or who does this? I'm near the Thai Embassy in Wash DC -- would they have translation service?

What other documents might need translation ino order to expedite visa extension? I might use my Air Force pension statement to meet financial requirements, and I realize this has to be certified by the American Embassy or Consulate. Is this certification in Thai; and if not, will I need to have it translated?

Thanks for your time.

Jim Gant