JimGant

so I called into the S/C branch in Soi Khaotalo to obtain a letter verifying my account details and was told the letter for immigration can only be issued at my joining branch.

I certainly don't doubt what they told you -- but it almost sounds like this goat-rope dates back to when bank branches were independent entities........ (if that were ever the case.....?).

What if you'd told the bank branch manager you just wanted a letter confirming your deposit with S/C bank. Period (with no mention of Immigration). As your deposit is with the bank en masse, how could he not honor your request? I guess by mentioning "Immigration," some ancient understanding was conjured up.

Or maybe some branches of some banks are still independent.... I know Bangkok Bank sure isn't. When I wire money, it's to their main branch in Bangkok (the SWIFT address), even tho' the only Bangkok Bank branches I've ever been in are in Chiang Mai, including of course the branch where I opened my account.

it is considered assessable income for Thai tax purposes only if the remittances to Thailand are made during the same year as the income is earned. Does anyone have a link to this information?

Not an official link. But, the following is from the Tilleke and Gibbins law firm: (See Here)

Q: What is the income tax on foreign source income earned by an individual?

A: Foreign source income includes income from a post or office held abroad, a business carried on abroad, and a property situated abroad. Foreign source income will be subject to Thai income tax only if the following two conditions are met:

(1) An individual is a resident of Thailand for tax purposes, and

(2) The income is brought into Thailand in the year that it is earned.

If only one of the above conditions is fulfilled, the foreign source income will not be subject to Thai income tax.

Kind of a strange law, one that would seemingly be hard to nail down. Would living off the amortization of my estate (not 'earned income,' at least by US law) trigger taxes in Thailand? And, unless you wire all your year's living money on January 1st, how could one tell whether or not money brought into Thailand was 'earned' that year -- or in previous ones? The fungible nature of money would not work to the advantage of the tax folks.

Immigration could certainly make things interesting if they shared all the information they derive from annual extensions with the tax folks. But they, at least for now, apparently do not. And, even if they did, for many of us here who still pay taxes to our home country, the treaties against double taxation would suffice.

However, it could be a little more interesting for those who don't have to pay income taxes back home -- like the Swiss. If Immigration told the tax folks you just presented a letter from your embassy certifying an annual income of 800k baht, it could get problematic -- should the tax department want it to.

But, I doubt it would ever get to this. However, for someone in this situation, it might be better to use the money-in-the-bank route for extensions. This would seemingly provide a little more room for tap dancing around the issue. After all, wasn't that last chunk of money you wired bequeathed to you by your late Aunt Mildred?

So 40 USD to send then up to 15 USD to receive wow !!

The $40 wire fee is about average.

However, if you're willing to wait about 4 business days for your money to show up, you can use the Automatic Clearing House (ACH) system to EFT funds from your US account to your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand. The max cost is $10, plus the .0025 Bangkok Bank charge on the Thai end. And it's all done strictly using the Internet -- no human interface.

You set this up just as you would to allow EFTs between US accounts -- but using the ABA of the New York branch of Bangkok Bank (and your Thai account number), acting as an intermediary.

When you add Bangkok Bank New York to your US bank's EFT list, check the block that says you can only send to, not send from, your Thai account.

See this link for further info: EFTing money from US to Thailand

For wire transfers, Bangkok Bank uses the "TT" rate. I have found this exchange rate to be almost smack on over the years I have been wiring money.

Don't forget they charge .25% (.0025) of the amount wired, with a minimum of 200 baht, a maximum of 500. So, deduct this charge before confirming you got the advertised TT rate.

I think they may have changed their web address, as I too had problems logging on using the address I had bookmarked eons ago, and which had, up to now, worked ok. I Googled 'vanguard,' then wandered thru the results, finally getting to a logon page. I believe the address I arrived at was:

Click here for "Vanguard logon"

However, re-reading your specific problem, and the workarounds you tried, we may be talking two completely different problems. But, good luck anyhow.

Since the OP is going for the multi-entry visa he can put off transfering the money for up to a year, as each entry on his visa will give him a straight forward 90 days. It will only be on the last of these that he needs to transfer the 800K making sure it is in the account for 90 days before applying for the one year extension.

With apologies to Jbeck for probable information overload.........

But if you hate border runs, you could enter on a visa exempt, open and fund a bank account, then visit Immigration for an in-country Non Imm O (Form TM87). However, if they adhere to the '21 days remaining' on entry permit, you've only got 9 days to hump it out.

A conversion of a Tourist Visa to a Non Imm O (Form TM86) would give you 30 more days to get organized -- a seemingly better option -- if you don't mind the extra effort in obtaining a Tourist Visa.

Waikiki is sounding better and better, no?

Does Bangkok Bank have a branch in New York City? This might provide an avenue to comply.

Won't work. Bangkok Bank New York is a wholesale bank. They also can't be used as a conduit to open up an account with a branch in Thailand.

[but, with apologies for thread creep, they *can* be used for Electronic Funds Transfer (EFT) to your Bangkok Bank account in Thailand, using their ABA number and your account number in Thailand. Cost is considerably less than most wire transfers -- but takes several days longer, however. Early reports of doing this showed many problems; but this has been apparently fixed -- at least set-up and usage for me was a snap. See: Bangkok Bank EFTs]

A few other observations for Jbeck.

The 3-month in-the-bank requirement is apparently waived when you combine bank and income finances. So, having the US Embassy/Consulate issue a validation letter for whatever positive cash-flow that you do have, then making up the shortfall with money in a Thai account, should get around the 3-month hurdle.

Opening a Thai bank account without a work permit can sometimes be difficult. A certificate of residence, which you can obtain from the US Embassy/Consulate, can usually overcome this problem. But, you still might be ringing a lot of doorbells before you find an accommodating bank/branch.

The Honorary Consulate in Honolulu (you do indicate you're from Hawaii) has been shown to be very user friendly. One poster here was amazed at how easy it was to obtain an O-A visa from them, using mail and telephone comms from the Big Island. But, whatever route you go, I'd give them the first shot. Google will get you there.

With an O-A visa you won't have to visit Immigration for nearly 2 years after setting foot in Thailand (assuming you mail in your 90-day reports). As Ubonjoe explained, this is because the one-year permitted to stay stamp an O-A visas affords allows you to re-enter Thailand just before visa expiration date, thereby getting another one-year permitted to stay stamp. Voila! Nearly two years on one visa.

Good luck.

Info on non-oa here: MFA Website

Unfortunately, this MFA website gets a little wrapped-around-the-axle when it tries to explain what an "O-A" visa is. For example, this quote:

3. Channels to submit [O-A] application

Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located on Soi Suan Plu, South Sathorn Road, Sathorn District, Bangkok 10120. Tel 0-2287-4948 (direct) or 0-2287-3101 - 10 ext. 2236.

Non Imm O-A visas are *NEVER* issued within Thailand -- only abroad in one's country of residence and/or citizenship. MFA, like so many, gets confused between an O-A visa and extending an O visa, as the results, e.g., one-year permission to stay, are pretty much the same.

No wonder folks like Jbeck scratch their heads -- when even the horse's mouth gets it wrong.

Why not come to LOS on a multi entry tourist visa, and then convert that to an O visa once he's already here?

Certainly an option, if he can't get a Non Imm O -- and doesn't want the hassle of a Non Imm O-A.

My only concern would be if he had to deal with one of the backwater Immigration Offices. Running into a hillbilly who's never seen a form TM86 (used to convert a Tourist Visa to a Non Imm visa) might ruin my day. Strange things seem to sometimes happen out in the Thai sticks (actually, in the big cities too )

But, maybe I'm an alarmist. I know I've seen that Bangkok and Pattaya Immigration Offices readily deal with TM86's. And maybe others have been mentioned -- but none that I can remember, or that I saw.

If this is an option for the OP, letting us know his Immigration Office might better define matters.

You will have no problem getting non-o for retirement. MFA rules follow.

MFA consulates (i.e., those staffed with Thai government personnel) have historically *not* issued Non Imm O visas just because you're retirement eligible. They would want you to produce age, financial, police, and medical proof -- which, if in order, would lead to a Non Imm O-A (not a Non Imm O) visa. But, just submitting partial proof (say, age and income) would not normally get you a Non Imm O visa.

The MFA site link given, while mentioning "retirement for the elderly," does so entirely under the subject blanket of 'Non Imm O' visas, with no further -- and logical -- mention of the sub-category 'Non Imm O-A' visas -- which appears to be an oversight. Most Embassy websites, once mentioning "retirement," then breakaway from the strict "O" category to the "O-A" sub-category.....

But, there is no date on this MFA site (that I can find), so maybe things have changed.....(but I doubt it).

Honorary Consulates remain the shining hope -- some better than others.

I hope 'gguy' will keep us informed on how he makes out.

Denver, by recent reports, no longer takes the long view on application criteria. So, I'd forget them.

I'd suggest Houston. I don't know if they'll issue a Non Imm O based upon your being retirement eligible, but you sure can give them a try.

[For sure the Embassy and MFA consulates --DC, NY, Chicago, and LA -- won't; Tourist or a Non Imm O-A are their options. In fact, Hull (in Great Britain) is the only consulate I've seen that officially advertises Non Imm O's for retirement eligible folks. For sure, going this route is not nearly as clear-cut as, say, being married to a Thai. And, as per Denver, things might have tightened up.]

Julie Richardson is the Vice Consul at the Houston Honorary Consulate. Contact info below:

Julie M. Richardson

Honorary Vice Consul for the Kingdom of Thailand

c/o Tindall & Foster

600 Travis, Ste. 2800

Houston, TX 77002

713-335-3907

713-228-1303

[email protected]

Her assistant is Michelle Aquilera;713-229-0636, ext. 1101

Both are easy to work with and will be glad to answer your questions (in my experience, anyway).

Two things I'd consider.

1. Go for the multi entry Non Imm O. This gives you more wiggle room in Thailand should getting your retirement extension go awry, e.g., you don't meet the 3-month in-bank requirement by the time your single entry, one-time-only 90 day period expires.

2. Consider getting a Non Imm O-A. Houston is pretty good about allowing letterhead (vice officially stamped paperwork) from your local cop (confirming you're not a thug) and bank, attesting to your $24,000 balance (or your $2000/month income check). The doctor's certificate might be more troublesome, if you don't have a regular doctor. But, a full physical should not be needed, as just a medical confirmation that you don't have terminal syphilis, elephantitis, and a few others I forget.

Anyway, Houston does issue multi entry Non Imm O-A's to retirement eligibles. So, if you can't get a Non Imm O (or even if you could), this seems a reasonable alternative, allowing you to avoid Immigration in Thailand for nearly two years (assuming you mail in your 90-day reporting).

Last resort is getting a Tourist Visa, then converting to a Non Imm O in Thailand -- or just coming into Thailand on a visa exempt (which certainly wouldn't be as comfortable as having a Non Imm O-A, IMO.)

If you are in Vientiane you can go to the Thai cconsulate and get 60 day tourist visa. Apply morning and get back next afternoon.

On return to Thailand you will get a 30 day visa exempt entry if you are qualified for it.

Why would he want a 30-day visa exempt entry if he's just gotten a tourist visa that allows for a 60 day stay, plus another 30 days with extension?

Ignore that. It means nothing. Yes you can extend visa

But, Immigration usually requires your extension request in the last 30 days of your 90-day permitted to stay period. So, yes, if you want to travel in the early part of your 90-day stamp, you'll need a re-entry permit (1000 baht single, 3800 multiple) to keep that stamp valid for eventual extension application.

Out of curiosity, why did you get a single entry Non Imm O? Did the Consulate restrict you to that? And if so, which Consulate?

Raybona, from previous posts, I believe you are in Chiang Mai? For the last 2 years, CM Immigration have also wanted to see evidence of some funds held in a Thai bank account - even if the application for extension for purposes of retirement is 100% income based....What I have described seems to be a local policy and maybe not enforced every time - TIT.

Indeed, TIT.

This recently from another poster re Chiang Mai Immigration:

No bank account info required, they were perfectly happy with the notarized income form. I had been told last year by the gal who runs that section, when my switch from a marriage Non-O to retirement was granted, that I would have to show bank account data this time, but several members of the forum stated that isn't the case and they were correct. I mainly posted this here to thank them for their advice.

See http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Fyi-Chiangma...me-t214766.html

Any other recent renewal experiences at Chiang Mai Immigration?

I got my NON-IMMIGRANT VISA "O" on 28 JAN 2004 valid until 27 APR 2004, using a visa run to Cambodia in MAY, JUNE, JULY, AUGUST and SEPTEMBER and since then, for three times (three years), the Retirement Visa.

Doesn't quite compute....

You came into Thailand on a Non Imm O single entry visa (based on the 3-month validity period), which expired the day you entered Thailand using this visa (as, by definition, do all 'single entry' visas upon use.) And after your 90-day permitted to stay stamp expired, you did 30-day border runs. Then, you got your first 'extension of stay based on retirement.' But to do this, you would need a valid Non Imm O visa -- but it is not apparent you had one.....

Anyway, nothing to do with your current problem.... but I'm curious how you got your first extension of stay, particularly since I didn't think they issued Non Imm O visas in-country back in 2004.....did you obtain another one on your last run to Cambodia?

BTW, I am not US, and happily so

We're glad too.

bank statement,..., copy of her house papers,

Were those required? (They didn't use to be.)

I both wire and EFT money to Thailand from my USAA bank account. My Thai account is with Bangkok Bank -- and they have a New York branch, with an ABA (routing) number. So, thru this branch I'm able to EFT money to Thailand striclty via the Internet and keystrokes. But, I don't know if Kasikorn bank has a similar setup.

However, while EFTs are cheaper ($10), they take several days longer, while SWIFT transfers normally only take one business day, in my experience. On USAA's website you'll find directions -- and the format -- for sending a SWIFT wire transfer. You can fax this info in, or talk each line through with an agent (very tedious). The third option is to establish a template(s) with all the required info on it. Then, when you want to wire, just call USAA (they even have a toll free number in Thailand), give them the name of your template and the amount you want to wire, and that's it.

It cost $35. But for large amounts (>$10,000), even factoring in the 500 baht charge from Bangkok Bank (Kasikorn probably has similar), you're only about .2% off the TT rate received. (My USAA ATM card is almost 1.4% off the TT rate, so that's pretty much in the drawer these days.)

I find it incredible that Hull still confuses getting an 'extension of stay based on retirement' as the same thing as getting a Non Imm O-A visa in Thailand -- complete with medical and criminal requirements!

No wonder this forum gets so many perplexing questions related to "retirement visas."

See the following from the Hull website:

Hull O-A Application

From the above, look at these quotes:

2.4 Obtain a written confirmation of financial position which is available only from the

British Embassy in Bangkok. Applicants need to demonstrate to the Consul at the

British Embassy, Bangkok that they meet the financial requirements of minimum

lump-sum equivalent to Baht 800,000 or minimum monthly income of Baht 65,000.

See page 10/10 for more information.

And from page 10/10:

The current financial requirements are the equivalent to an income of 800,000 baht per annum or 65,000 baht per month. Applicants who do not receive an income / pension must be able to demonstrate that they have an amount equivalent to 800,000 baht in a bank account. Monies do not have to be paid into or held in a Thai bank.

[in fact, for an O-A visa, monies *can't* be in a Thai bank, but must be in a bank in your home country.]

So, you go to the British Embassy in Bangkok to get certification that you have the equivalent of 800,000 baht in your bank back in Great Britain! Then you march into Immigration with this certification, plus your medical and criminal records -- and ask for a Non Imm O-A visa!! I'd love to see Immigration's reaction....... (And probably the reaction of the British Embassy, as certifying that you have the equivalent of 800k baht back in your bank in Britain would probably be a *first of the kind* certification for them.)

What is it you Brits say -- bloody daft?

The rubber stamp visas do cause some delays at the airpost and elicit close scrutiny from immigration,

Nonsense.

It looks like the verbiage changed sometime between July and December 2005, based on the above.

"Enter Before" seems a lot more explanatory than "Date of Expiry." Have not seen the new stickers, but it would seem they were probably changed in response to confusion with "Date of Expiry," leading some to believe that was the last date they could enter (but not the case, I would think).

My visa was issued on 18/09/07 & valid until 18/09/08....

What exactly does your visa say? Valid one year exactly from the date of issue doesn't compute.....

Maybe things have changed, but it used to be that if a one-year visa had an issue date of 18/09/07, then the last day you could enter Thailand on it would be 16/09/08 (as 17/09/08 would be your "utilize before" date).

For example, the old ink stamped visas (which some honorary consulates still use) would say: "Must be utilized before" 17/09/08, using the example in the previous paragraph, where the issue date is 18/09/07. In every case, the 'utilize before" date would be the day before the issue day, one year down the road. And so the last day you could enter Thailand would be one year from issue date, less two days.

The newer sticker type visas would say: "Date of Expiry 17/09/08 (again, using the same example). But again, one year, less one day down the road from the issue date.

To me, not as clear as 'utilize before.' But, I bet if you tried to enter on 17/09/08, Immigration would say, "sorry visa expired." (Actually, they probably wouldn't say anything, but just stamp you in with a 30-day exempt stamp.) Anyway, not 100% sure on this latter situation -- but I sure wouldn't want to chance it.

Anyway, just a 'heads up' in case you plan to cut a border run super close.

“Visa extension” means nothing to me. The website of the Immigration Bureau uses this term incorrectly to mean extension of stay. With what meaning are you using it?

Has to be "extension of stay," as he could not be stamped in here with a permitted to stay stamp of 19 Sep 2009 -- meaning the earliest his O-A visa could have been issued is 20 Sept 2008. And, I believe, we're not yet in the Twilight Zone with all of this.

But he's certainly well within the time zone (30 days) of extending his last permitted to stay date of 19 sep 2008 for one more year. And if this 19 Sep 2008 date was by virtue of a valid O-A visa, it's easy to see the confusion, especially if folks like Immigration confuse the issue with terms like 'visa extension.' In fairness to Mrjlh, he's been told by Immigration that he's just had a 'visa extension' of his O-A visa, which sure sounds like 'visa is still valid' -- thus eligible for one-year permitted to stay stamps upon each re-entry.

But, as previously said, all visas expire no more than one year after issue date. And they can't be extended. Trying to rectify that statement, with all its implications, with misnomers from many different sources, including official, will keep this forum in business forever.

Clarification: My new visa extension will now expire Sep 19th 2009. It has a "Mulitiple Entry Permit".

I leave next week planing on returning some time in Feb 2009 and maybe making another shorter trip later in the year. And a few short jogs in between, who knows. So when I come back in Feb, is my "Visa approval to stay in the Kingdom," going to be extended until Feb 2010? or "longer" if I was to go, say, in Aug '09 and return just prior to it's expiration date of Sep 19 which then puts me into Sep 19, 2011??? Doesn't sound right to me.

JLH, you're getting 'O-A visa' confused with 'extension of stay based on retirement.' And the latter is what you have, based on "visa extension will now expire Sep 19 2009." First, visas can never be extended -- they all expire after no more than a year's validity. So, the 19 Sep 2009 date could only apply to an extension of stay, as you could not possess an O-A visa valid for more than a year. (Out of curiosity, did you ever have a Non Imm O-A -- or did you just extend an O?)

So, no, you won't get another one year stamp when you return in Feb -- since you won't have a valid O-A visa. But with your multiple re-entry permit, your 'permitted to stay until Sep 19, 2009' will remain valid.

as long as the VED is good you can enter at any border any time and get almost a full year, correct?????????

Correct. As long as the O-A's one-year, non-renewable validity has not expired, you'll get stamped in for one year.

(Monty, after scratching my head awhile, I saw where you got Longball (Feb expire, trip to Kuwait) confused with MrJLH. No matter, as the latter was even more confused.)