2 hours ago, polpott said:

Not according to the OP. You haven't drifted off topic have you?

Not like you just did.

18 minutes ago, polpott said:

Its not a separate issue, it is the issue. Its the reason why we no longer have a viable fishing fleet. Not enabled by EU, enabled by greedy British fleet owners.

Take some notice for a change. It is one issue. We were talking about declining fish stocks, not the declining UK fleet. 

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Already explained why you are wrong; see my quote in post above for an example of this explanation.

Quota selling/hopping/fiddling is a separate issue. I am talking about the greed of the continental fishermen in terms of catches and methods, which have been allowed and easily enabled by EU poor and biased policies. Now they are panicking because they have managed to fish the Med to death as well. Bravo EU.

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Er; yes.

 

 

 

Marine resources means a lot more than a few wet haddock. 

4 minutes ago, polpott said:

The greed wasn't with the European fishermen. The greed was with the small number of companies that owned the British fishing fleet and sold their quotas to the European fishing fleets. Some major contributers to the Tory party in those fleet owners.

So then the greed was with the European fishermen then. The CFP was terrible for a long time - causing correspondingly long-term damage.

Just now, 7by7 said:

 

Ah, I see; the point I had already made! 

Er no.

19 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Having studied both WAs, apart from the way of dealing with the Irish border, I can see little difference between Boris' and May's. Especially as Boris now wants to renege on the NI part of his!

 

Perhaps a Brexiteer can explain the differences for this simple soul? 

You are correct. They are both kerapp.

23 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

Had you read the article and not just the headline you would have seen

 So unless BAE Systems had decided to leave the consortium, they wold have got this contract Brexit or no Brexit.

 

Nice try, though.

 

Of course, what will happen in the future if there is no UK/EU trade deal and so under WTO rules components manufactured in the UK are subject to import tariffs when shipped to Germany, remains to be seen.

If they want the planes I'm sure they will work something out.

57 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh I am sure these patriotic Brexiteers will not object to a windfarm in their back garden.

Its a small price to pay after all. 

Most us have.

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/eu-seeks-brexit-bargaining-chip-050000520.html

(Bloomberg) -- Brexit talks are going down to the wire, and the European Union’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier is threatening British access to the continent’s single energy market as a way of extracting concessions on fishing rights.

 

 

 

Aah threats again. Don't you just love all this goodwill! 

37 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 OK, what point were you making when you said 

 

Yes, the UK will probably be free of the CFP, but some sort of arrangement, for example similar to that between the EU and Norway will need to be made to not only maintain historical fishing rights but also to maintain stocks of the most popular fish; under threat again, this time from climate change. 

 

 

Any sovereign state has special exclusive rights within its own EEZ w.r.t. the exploration and use of marine resources. Any agreement with other countries will need to be carefully considered by the UK to avoid a repeat of fish stock decimation and waste after decades of bad CFP policies, which are also responsible for the low stocks already in the Mediterranean. The migration patterns of some species have been altered to some extent by climate change but this has little to do with the issue and which has had far less effect on the health of fish stocks than the methods and greed of some continental European fishermen and their beloved EU CFP.

27 minutes ago, notrub said:

The fishing rights issue is a deliberate 'red herring' given life by the brexit team and nurtured by the failing Johnson/Cummings administration.  It is simply an excuse to delay or obfuscate the negotiating process.   There was a perfectly functioning fishing agreement which Gove withdrew from as a demonstration of our independence.  Hoping for a US trade agreement that is beneficial to the UK is a pie in the sky.  US businesses are a 'for profit only' motivated bunch and will give nothing away.  We will have chlorinated chicken,  hormoned beef and GM crops approved before the US will even agree to talk.  This will cut off our access to future EU trade deals.  Flush Johnson/Cummings down the toilet and start fresh.  What a costly disaster they have been both in money wasted and lives lost due to their incompetence and duplicity.

Please send details of this perfectly functioning fishing agreement. Urgent. Stop. 

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

Ha....that made me laugh...there has only been four in the last 40 years, excluding the present buffoon .......and your last line?..........."he didn't care too much about lies or breaking the promises he made to his wife"...do you know nothing about Boris Johnson?

Four what?

6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Its a shame the rest of the UK is not. 

The majority is, they told me.

16 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Easiest trade deal in history ????

Might have been if it was just trade. ????

2 hours ago, Poet said:

This is exactly right.

I should add that this has very little to do with Biden personally, his comments about being Irish are just window dressing. This is about solidarity between the US, UK, and EU political establishments who have always been determined to either stop Brexit or force a version of it that essentially means remaining under EU control.

From Day One, I considered it a major mistake for Ireland's ambitious career politicians to allow the EU to use our country as a stick with which to hit the UK. The UK is, by far, our most important trading partner and, despite some past problems, our closest friend. Our relationship with our neighbours on the British Isles will long outlast the EU.

Almost uniquely in Europe, we share the same understanding that democracy means that rulers should be accountable to the people. We should have respected the democratic decision of our UK brothers but, instead, our young Taoiseach (Prime Minister), bouyed up by lavish praise from the English and EU establishments, kept kicking the British people while they were down, knowing this would guarantee him a gilded future at the EU trough.

What we should have done is made it clear that we support the British in their decision, and trust them to sort out Northern Ireland later. As long as people are treated fairly, there is no danger of the IRA reforming. That bogeyman keeps getting waved around but it is nonsense. There are a few lunatics among the indigenous population, just as there are among the loyalists, but they have no broad support within their communities.

The IRA only had the limited effectiveness they did because it was clear that the indigenous had been treated with real prejudice and, so, a sufficiently large number of them were willing to provide practical assistance during the war. The Good Friday agreement marked the end of that and no serious politician, no matter how secretly prejudiced they may be, is going to risk that again.
 

Right. The EU claim to be acting out of solidarity with Ireland but, actually, it is because they cannot allow the UK to leave. From the start, they have believed that, if they simply refused to give an inch, in time UK public opinion would turn against it. They don't actually care about how Brexit should happen, about how the borders will work. What they want is for the British to grow tired, give up, and become easier to govern.

If the British insist on leaving, the EU will happily weather serious economic damage in order to scupper the UK economy and discourage others who would dare leave. This would be spectacularly bad for Ireland.

For the US establishment, now reasserting their control after a 4-year glitch, their main worry is that any fracture in the EU will surface the underlying economic weaknesses and spark the collapse of the Euro. On the whole, it suits the US to have the countries of Europe bound together as one relatively weak but predictable ally.

The US establishment have no fond illusions about having a "special relationship" with the UK. To understand the true nature of the US/UK relationship, read about the history and terms of the major war loans, and how tightly the US has turned the screw every time they have had an opportunity to do so.

Brexit and Trump's election, both repudiations of the establishment that happened in quick succession, shook the confidence of the various elites. They had never failed to control democracy before. Now they are back in power, in no mood to compromise, and determined to entrench their control for the rest of this century. Many of the freedoms we had before 2020 are never coming back.

 

I used to try to write as well as this. You are right...I'm tired.........Bravo.

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Johnson signed an agreement saying there would be no internal border in Ireland. He claimed it was a great deal. A fantastic deal. His own oven ready deal.

Upon which he won an election. 

His election win was assured as soon as May was gone. People get tired.

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

 

Johnson signed an agreement saying there would be no internal border in Ireland. He claimed it was a great deal. A fantastic deal. His own oven ready deal.

Upon which he won an election. 

So confusing. I thought this bit was about Biden.

20 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

His heritage is SO important that he's never visited Ireland, apart from once in 2016 as part of his duties under Obama. Yeah, it's really important to you Joe. You keep telling yourself that ????

 

 

O'Bama lol.

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

 

I thought he was Welsh?  Family going down into coal mines and such.

I think he refers to the coal mines of Pennsylvania but I can't find any direct family association as miners.