UKresonant

If they issue a new / updated return form, fingers crossed it will clarify. If obtaining "tax authority certificate" like a " letter of confirmation" from HMRC whether it would reflect any DTA provision or (more likely) not. If not, how does, for example .Gov pensions remain as 'Taxed only in the UK' It does ask the purpose for requesting, but is that a process tick box or (less likely perhaps ) Is it processed to suit the reason requested. Will have to see if I can find.examples on the/ a tax forum.

It does mention the apportionment method for the relief. (That method circumstantially reinforced for CGT etc maybe). So it would seem that you have to list and provide the tax paid on say all your pensions, and the credit relief will be proportional to the amount remitted. So say perhaps (for simplicity example) UK state pension £10k UK Employer pension £15k UK Civil Service .GOV £ 5k (only taxed in UK re-DTA) Private pension 1 £1285 Private pension 2 £1285 £32570 (UK personal allowance £12570) - THB 1465650 So say 20% tax above p.a. = £4000 Remit say £20k - THB 900k Tax credit 61.4% of £4000=£2546 - THB 110.5 k credit relief available. But there should be no tax on the GOV pension, but it would be needed for the Credit relief Calc? So will the just say the Gov pension is placed at the bottom of the stack where they say your not being taxed, but that would (as mentioned in another post) it pushes everything else up the Thai taxation bands (also UK .Gov pension could well exceed the Thai tax PA and zero bands..) ( Something similar suggesting apportionment was noted in the Norwegian question PDF back about p222 ish with the emphasis on avoiding double relief, in relation to the Personal allowances of each state). It's Sunny here in Scotland currently, but God has still got the External Aircon set about 10C, Still,will go out for a wee while. .

But to draw a line under things it would be useful to have an additional info box to at least list them so someone can't come back with a different view later. If noted and they are curious they can ask at the time of the filing.

Still a bit unsure how to express the Civil Service "only taxed in UK" DTA article 19 pension, on a Thai RD tax return. As it was mentioned that an office said there is only credit relief for tax paid. Which to me would suggest the entire amount and it's associated tax deducted from it, not applied as credit, and should all be excluded before TH RD computation. Because I'm looking as mine being all fully taxed as well above the UK Personal Allowance. ( the other bit of my occupational pension uses the PA up, hopefully the state pension will come along in about 6 years) It seems they may wish to include it and could push the remainder into a higher band. I would nly would wish Civil Service pension listed as an explanation of the remittance, and that it's been through the mill. I don't do returns in the UK, as they said, they can see everything on their screen. Interesting that that option is available, applicable family members just let them fix it all with the Tax coding.

UK is being present at the end of the day. 183 days is the obvious one then it goes down various levels. Tax resident in one or both of the previous two tax years, >90 days and stay in your own property for one day 6th April to 5th April could do it! Thailand is any second , of a day to count. "180 Days or more" in a Calendar Year.

That is good news perhaps, as the majority of my pension incomes are issued in the same way as payroll. Was there any stipulation that it must be 100% of such income types to get the credit? ( or proportion of) Are they quite happy to see one set of payroll with the associated tax deducted in isolation? (Which would be both simple and ideal for me) The UK does not have a specific article for pensions, (except for Government pensions). The TH-UK DTA does have a clause at 23 (3) that says UK source tax will be allowed as a credit against Thai Tax.

That's what I would aim for, never to break a rule, so that I was fined. In the LTR visa thread there was a DTA themed youtube Video Carl Turner was the the main guy along with someone with DTA knowledge. She seemed to think it was better declaring (about 50mins in) as it would draw a line under that Tax year as opposed to potential questions in later tax years. I don't really want interaction with Thai officials as far as is possible. But if it was straight forward, uniform in application, and totally uncorupt, Target is to only remit to Thailand, whilst non resident, non-resident savings, and/ or amounts which would not exceed the 5% tax band at worst, if tax resident. But potentially that requires a filing, and having to pay a couple of hundred quid tax at most, (prior to it being refunded if not accepted immediately as DTA taxed in UK only) (Since first visiting Thailand in 1993 I've never done an extention of stay at an IO. as a theme of avoiding officialdom) How will it in future go, with the file / no file scenarios under discussion I wonder. (Real life events don't always facilitate the careful pre-planning )

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The son came over March 2020 (all plans initiated and tickets booked end of 2019) to School in Scotland, at the completion of Primary, however they enrolled him in Second year at Secondary, though Academical he could cope, socially maybe not best. If on the border line opt for the lower study year if the option is available. The sons experience has been less than ideal, as he arrived at the period of COVID lockdown(s) and was not actually at school for 5 months, cadet and other groups he had planned to join were not open till the following year. Other wise I think it would be successful and the high school have been very helpful (no idea about the English schools).

(I've never been full time in Thailand ) Just thinking out loud. One other potential or theoretical, though most unlikely problem could be filing if not physically present in Thailand 1st quarter of the next year. If you cannot accurately list DTA aspects on online filing. Whilst grasping the taxation items, not sure if it is possible for me to express it on an actual filing yet The tax considerations also perhaps do not align well with Immigration stuff. The .Gov pension sould be remittable as soon as I get the UK end of year P60 in May showing tax paid. [Thai return, gross, ~70k THB net or not at all] Then there is the 60k Personal allowance, and the 150k Nil band. [Presume that are looking for gross on the return, or should remit net 210k (under 65), if halting remittance at this level, would they then want 5% tax on the gross, i.e. of the tax already taken in home country!) Any further amount then to be remitted could could be considered a bit later maybe Aug on depending on prediction of tax resident or not. One year tax resident one year not could occur, but plans are not in reality dictated by tax years and Thai immigration shifting sands, they tend to be coincidental.... (Should they move to Global Tax it would make it very awkward)

@4myr's recent dialouge with the RD Tax officers & lawyer gave interesting insight of there timenow knowledge at a Thai RD office. So the first issue for me would be my small Gov pension, which by UK / Thai DTA is only taxed in UK. If they are not recognising exemption, the may look for that pension on a return, but it should have zero tax in Thailand. So it is of assessable income type should be listed maybe, but should not be taxable income as far as Thai RD is concerned. The form perhaps does not lend it's self to correctly file. I vaguely recall the UK HMRC technician I talked within respect to the .GOV pension (not state pension) back in 2018 mentioned that some times they want it listed, but they should credit / repay the tax the tax 100%. As the may want to show it on bothsides of the accounts. ( but not liking it specifically to a Thai RD event) Custom and practice of Thai RD still needs some observation....

UK State Pension is for everyone who pays into the scheme, regardless of where they worked or how they were employed. Or perhaps not worked but had voluntary National insurance contributions, or credits from child benefit... (Section 40 (1) of the TH RD code does not describe this benefit perhaps....in some cases. It's from National insurance contributions, if it were a pension from Employment, perhaps the UK DWP could not muck about with it such as freezing it if in Thailand, changinge the year it.is.paid etc etc) [This was.lingering in editor so presume it did not post when I scribed most of it...sorry if duplicated]

No where at the moment, start of British summer time (Have to wait till after 7th July to avoid tax residency anyway) Other destinations including Thailand appealing Sept onwards perhaps.

I used to like the get togethers for the Thai comunity in Scotland, the Hounary Consul had a garden party at his house one year, really nice. We used the Glasgow consulate often for TR Visas before the June 2019 evisa intro. The non-O ME was / is the ideal visa, and did all my board runs by flying back to the UK . I went direct to London RTE for the non-O MEs in 2018 and 2019. Must of been an off day if you made Kay angry..

UK State Pension is for everyone who pays into the scheme, regardless of where they worked or how they were employed. Or perhaps not worked but had voluntary National insurance contributions, or credits from child benefit... (Section 40 (1) of the TH RD code does not describe this benefit perhaps....))

Yes, but likely Single Entry only, relatively recent reports say that the multiple entry Non-O ME was again no longer available, box disappeared from the e-visa site again. (Could always e-mail the RTE London in case the sands have shifted again, 100/1 against maybe) Last reference for Financials that I can confirm was May 2023 £1000 single entry (£10000 Multi-entry) Show accom booking for first couple of days. e-mail from wife confirming aware / invite visit, as Jpeg/PDF. Copy scan / pic of wife's ID or Passport. Scan of Marraige cert. All applications online British Citizen/ resident. Not been in the site for that visa type recently, but the tourist visa application has change so perhaps also the non-O. Supporting docs format:- Jpeg image files PDF files (so could be multi page) File size less than 3MB (2.8MB to be sure) Photo of yourself can use a phone and try and get it close to passport spec (does not like textured backgrounds, I use a off-white cotton sheet over a door) Payment for Visa via Kasikorn by card ( sometimes hiccups like its not worked but normally is OK after going back to the initial application listing after waiting for it to process)

Have when the wife is buying properties (the land being include) perhaps signed a form in the land office when transacting to say that it is not conjugal property? There was / is a form, no sure what its specific reference is.... The gift would be useful for everything else for receivers use and they could use their own resources for the property purchases. Same issue when your wife is getting a mortgage perhaps I remember back late 90's an aquantaince getting a mortgage at the extreme limit for her Thai salary and had to convince the bank the transaction was using her own money, (not her UK national husband's). Would be drifting into nominee territory other wise perhaps.

Headline;- Can gift up to THB 20 million to spouse (option for 5% tax). She can't use it for property purchase (most likely), and it must be a true gift. Interest on the gift will be taxable.

Sorry, the point I was trying to make was more towards the possibilities of a NT tax code so pensions and the like are not taxed at source in the UK ( recent post context and also compared with Germany, which seems more absolute perhaps ). Not sure about rental Income...from memory. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/637e192f8fa8f56eabf75e5b/Double_Taxation_Treaty_Relief_Form_DT-Individual.pdf p1 Double Taxation Treaty Relief Application for relief at source from United Kingdom (UK) Income Tax and claim to repayment of UK Income Tax For use by an individual resident of a country with which the UK has a double taxation treaty that provides for relief from UK Income Tax on pensions, purchased annuities, interest or royalties arising in the UK p3 Part C To apply for relief at source from UK Income Tax, please complete Parts C.1, C.2, C.3 or C.4 as appropriate. p6 Part F I am beneficially entitled to the income from the sources included in this form or otherwise meet the conditions for relief in the double taxation treaty between the UK and my country of residence...... {comment NOT THAILAND] p7 DT-Individual Notes (from) 2. Purpose of the form DT-Individual Form DT-Individual allows you to apply under the DT treaty between the UK and your country of residence for relief at source from UK Income Tax on pensions, purchased annuities, royalties and interest paid from sources in the UK. p8 Part 😄 Application for relief at source from UK Income Tax As explained in these Notes, the UK’s DT treaties with other countries may provide for: • no UK tax to be withheld from payments of pensions and annuities • no UK tax to be withheld or a reduced rate of UK tax to be withheld, from payments of interest and royalties Give the details asked for in Part C to apply for relief at source from UK Income Tax on future payments of income. Relief at source may be available in cases where HMRC is able to exercise its discretion to issue a notice (under Statutory Instrument 1970 Number 488, as amended). We deal with each application on its merits. Where we cannot agree to allow relief at source or cannot arrange it, you can claim repayment of part or all of the UK tax taken off, as appropriate. p9 Part C.2: Work pensions and purchased annuities Enter details in Part C.2 if you receive a pension or purchased annuity from the UK. Most DT treaties provide for pensions and purchased annuities from the UK to be paid to a resident of the other country without UK tax taken off. The DT Digest gives information about whether relief from UK tax is available and if there are any special rules. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b05425fed915d1317445ed2/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf p34 Column OTHER PENSIONS / ANNUITIES As you have said Thailand = "No relief" (Just reclaim in some circumstances)

That's probably one of the few in region good options from a tax point of view, especially with the suggested by some, that some want Thailand to perhaps move to Global taxation. UK folks even get their state pensions yearly increases there, where they don't officially in Thailand. Won't you miss the Thai food?

Yes that is true, it is not an absolute. Info for others;- There is a clause that can allow it, depending on what the tax folk decide. But generally if you have been in the UK most of your life, and have just moved to Thailand, since NT code availability may be difficult to obtain. Almost certainly UK .gov pensions no NT code. Country specific info (search for)Form 'DT-individual' and the associated DT digest 2018

Just noticed, and I think it is curious and perhaps something to consider is UK state pension does not appear to fall under Section 40 1), perhaps the US is similar? https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html#section40 Section 41 para 2, A resident of Thailand who in the previous tax year derived assessable income under Section 40 from an employment or from business carried on abroad or from a property situated abroad shall, upon bringing such assessable income into Thailand, pay tax in accordance with the provisions of this Part.

Info;- Section 40 Assessable income is income of the following categories including any amount of tax paid by the payer of income or by any other person on behalf of a taxpayer. (1) Income derived from employment, whether in the form of salary, wage, per diem, bonus, bounty, gratuity, pension, house rent allowance, monetary value of rent-free residence provided by an employer, payment of debt liability of an employee made by an employer, or any money, property or benefit derived from employment.4 4R.CT.No.29/2538 There is the other sources threshold at 60k THB But the one for section 40 is 120k THB

Yes, and additionally the suggestion that not taxed as not resident, suggests other than state pension. Most UK private pensions would normally retain tax at source in the UK even if a NoTax at source was claimed whilst being resident of Thailand. Can't get an NT code for State Pension, and no relief available. (As I understand it, excepting the discretion clause).

I've tried to find trigger amounts for inbound remittance, (I remember a thread years ago, and at that time inbound of about THB 40k that could potentiallyflag something). Could only find a threashold of 400 deposits totalling more than 2 million Baht. Every inboand must have a 'purpose' code reported, but not sure if it is individual reported or bulked up and reported to BOT.