UKresonant

The ones I worry about are potential tourists that stumble into being cumulatively more than 179 days (as there home country is 183 days perhaps, or got run over on a pedestrian crossing just before going to the airport on day 177) have done a large tax exempt transaction in home country, remitted proceeds to Thailand buy a condo, fund 800k plus living expenses, and by some Random chance get tax audited by Thai RD. But hopefully no one will be caught out that way... Thailand can make a fantastic first impression, which may distract from due diligence. There is still obsolete information in the WWW Probably not the objective of condo sales to flag tax concerns.

Of course the 2024 tourist will not, when under 179 days. But say that tourist has a Thai Bank account and remitted say 1M THB in 2024, and in 2025 was Tax resident spending 244 days, and did file Q1 2026 for 2025. I would anticipate that they may enquire as to why no tax filed for 2024. Especially as they only remitted THB 400k in 2025. The larger remittance in 2024 would flag, but I have no idea what the flag level is now or whether it is fixed dynamic or even random. I'm updating my 'days where' spreadsheet and will record on there days at any time as part of a day when in Thailand or non UK countries, and every day present at the end of the day for UK days. Keep boarding passes stamps etc

Yes that is about it UK Personal allowance is £12570 (still frozen at that for a few years) and I could make it more extreme by for example adding Individual savings account dividends of say £1430 per annum, on which there is no tax. So perhaps comparing £14000 which is not Taxed in the UK, against the under 65 allowance of as you say THB 201K £4600. So £9400 potentially exposed to Thai Tax where it is tax free in the UK ( unless Thai RD expand on the vague statements on If Taxed in home country and if there is a DTA, don't worry 😊) So say £24000 remitted to Thailand (and to simplify that was all income) £10000 attracting tax at 20% in the UK (So in Theory there would be a £2000 credit relief). In Thailand £24000 gross £4600 not Taxed 150k @ 5% £3333 ~ £166 tax (th) 200k @ 10% £4444 ~ £444 tax (th) 250k @ 15% £5556 ~£833 tax (th) 250k@ 20% £5556 ~ £1111 tax (th) 25% tax on £500 ~ £ 125 tax (th) So about £2680 Thai tax bill in theory you could maybe obtain £2000 credit relief for or against tax paid in UK, but how complex or simple will that be at that level if you had to employ someone, pay for it getting stamped or such like that offset would erode rapidly, not to mention time taken. So at the moment, under 65, I could only safely remit £4600 + £1600 taxed only in UK pension £6200 per annum simply? So compared with the 'remit in the following year' now defunct totally simple situation, the simple solution is for me now £6200 per annum! (definitely no tax due) To which I could add Pre-2024 savings (not easy to prove in a cash sense). Savings and earnings whilst not Thai tax resident. This is all from the perspective of always being UK Tax resident whilst overnight also having potential to have Thai Tax Residency over 179 days. (There is the 50% expense thing of pension up to 100k THB potentially) Some said their tax office said can be taxed in UK or Taxed in Thailand, along with the DTA don't worry etc but what will happen in practice Q1 2025. For full timers Thai Tax is definitely cheaper than UK tax once your at the scale of remitting more than THB 2,100,000 😐 , income

Me thinks; J) UK personal allowance irrelevant at the Thai end computation, except in DTA credit relief context, the total including the non taxed under the personal allowance (which is £12570). So the credit relief is proportional to say £32570 not just to the £20000 taxed portion above the PA. It only is legitimate in the sense that it has been through a tax process and not as tax haven non-taxed. UK £12570 allowance irrelevant Thai PA of 60kTHB + others relavent. (03:25hrs goodnight......źzzzz )

https://www.mazars.co.th/insights/doing-business-in-thailand/tax/automatic-exchange-of-information#:~:text=However%2C Thai government officials have,take place in September 2023. Do you have an OECD document dated April 2023 or later. Has it been updated at all....?

Sorry for not getting back sooner. The other 70k was my .gov UK pension, which under the DTA should only be taxed in UK.

If over the 179 days per Calendar year, so Tax Resident in Thailand;- Income up to ~21000 THB/month, no tax as £60k per annum personal allowance and 190k per annum over 65 allowance. + Then additionally to the 21k/month;- There is a 150k zero tax band, so that gives another 12500 THB/month So no tax due (overseas pensions income, age over 65), call it up to 33333 THB /month (as an easy to remember number) If there was more, apparently there is an expense deduction of 50% of pension up to 100k Baht (a greyer area maybe) but that gives another 8333 THB / month, with no tax payable, if a tax return was made. There is an ongoing debate about the TIN, so I skip that for now. ( The written over 120k, is maybe not the actual custom and practice though ) https://www.rd.go.th/english/21987.html Speculation that maybe the Tax Office managers want an expectation of a least 120k THB /per annum that is actually taxable, before is is worth issuing a TIN...) Just keep all your paperwork filed and archived ongoing, if under 33333/THB per month, actually remitted to a Thai bank. But I suppose they could say that you don't get the allowances unless you filed. so a simple yes / no is elusive...

Verbal rejection? I think a rejection in a written signed and stamped form would be lovely to have. I think I would try and put on (old) puppy eyes and show a downloaded tax residencyself declaration form, such as the HSBC form, that asks for a TIN or a reason for not having one on the form. 'Please can you give me something I can show my bank ( as my bank has a similar form ....).' If they give you something official looking something It gives a point of reference should any staff contradict later. For me the difficulty may be keeping a straight face and not skipping out the door if successful, in getting a.formal rejection.

The RTE London confirmed by e-mail, £1k non O SE, £10k for non-O ME, May 2023.

I think it is more likely to be reactionary, than in anticipation. Needs the train to hit the buffers on at least one busy inbound track in to the terminous, quick investigation and a special measure may materialise, to keep customer numbers up.. If it happens for this year relatively contained, if next year 1st quarter folks are getting pummeled for Tax, and it's worldwide media time?? will see how it goes.

I'm just trying to be optimistic, the paperwork to prove the capital principle, would also perhaps throw up the detail of the gain (even if zero rated at home)? Remitting $400k will surely trigger the alarm bells, whilst your fiscally domicile (Normally DTA Article 4) under Thai RD priority taxation. Any big transaction like that (with favorable home contry treatment) safer to be resident in home country that year. In 2018 I made sure when making pension transactions, co-incidentally in March, I delayed coming to Thailand until after the UK tax year concluded on April 5th and cumulatively was less than 180days in the calendar Thai Tax year (Returning to UK as non-O ME.. The difference between a sure thing and a debatable situation.

Is there not also a deductible of 50% of pension to a max of 100k baht ( not at PC currently to check the detail )

Perhaps the the year the income is earned whilst Thai Tax resident, is the more important. Exchange of information with home country tax authority approximate your in year income. What if;-any income arising that year is assessable as it is remitted to Thailand at anytime (161), until that total in year total is cumulatively reached. "But it can't be I spent it or at least the remainder of it, on overseas commitments in that year" 'Prove that then' Just sharing a recent nightmare

Remitting $400k, would make it $80k gain most probably, still a big tax bill. Could always file on the 1st April perhaps...without losing face. .

For myself I speculate;- Under 65 60000THB (personal allowance) 150000THB (nil tax band) 70000THB (Taxed only in UK. Gov pension) The above all net of tax, based on actual remittance, landing in the Thai Bank Account. Above 65 can add 190000 old age allowance! Then there is the 50% of pension deductible (amongst others ) up to 100k Baht. So for me generally, I think 380k THB Under 65 570k THB Over 65. Additionally, savings before 1st Jan 2024, That you can prove Additionally savings principle created from earnings etc whilst not Thai Tax resident ongoing years Additionally the principle arising from inheritance if isolated, but generally as Thai IHT allowance is reasonably high. But it will all be down to your own personal circumstance, that's where reading the tax guide may help you. Out with your question peramiters, there is the 5% tax band which would add another 142k THB net, quite painlessly. Would not be worth getting into DTA complexity, except for the 'only taxed in UK' aspect of my small Gov pension, until remitting a more substantial amount. " yes I can prove pensions, but only sending my .Gov pension and savings currently" if asked. All very approx, counted on fingers and toes

The out of sync tax year is potentially a problem for UK Tax docs. Knowing what documents will be asked for consistantly would be more than useful. Don't want the 'need stamped by your Embassy' when that is just not a possibility, as that service is not offered and such like. Perhaps the only segment of income, that may not be an issue is the 'taxed only in UK' .Gov pension. I'm thinking the net value could be remitted as soon as the P60 end of year Tax Cert is issued (April/May) Only legitimate source, (and tax paid maybe) needs demonstrated hopefully. May have to be declared somehow, but not as part of the tax calculation. Therefore only declared as explanation, and does not logically need to align to Thai tax year. Pretty small component of my income though.

I'm surprised if the genuine gift from overseas from legitimate source would be problematic. Reading the posts on the UK tax Comunity forum, it does not seem to be other than straight forward there. Unless then re-transfered to a 'relavant person' (like the sender). Perhaps the gift in a Thai context, could not be then used to purchase property.

When this Tax policy change was announced, for 2024 I decided that all taxed at source pensions go to one bank, and dividends go to another bank. I've jinxed it! The two selected banks are merging later in the year!

Waiting on clarification, different tax firms are phrasing it slightly differently Pensions only taxed in Home country, some say ignore some say declare. For the DTA tax credit action Pension 1 £15k £700 tax deducted at source in UK uses tax allowance Pension 2 £ 2k £400 tax deducted at source in UK (Exempt under DTA) Pension 3 £ 2k £400 tax deducted at source in UK Pension 3 £ 3K £600 tax deducted at source in UK One said Pension 2 is not included in declaration, another said it was???. So Pension say 1 3 & 4 tax paid £1600 on £20k gross, remit the net of £15k gross to Thailand whilst resident and you would get £1200 credit relief. the way it was described. So the £13800 net remitted arrives in Thailand, the £1200 does not arrive as UK HMRC has that. What goes where on the filing and non-existent Tax credit form is still a Mystery! Is the tax computation simultanious with the tax credit. or will they want us begging for Tax back from the UK. (DTA 23 3) says UK tax paid should credit against Thai tax, but does that work or is it for Thai's working in the UK) There was one Tax Expert on YT joking that their DTA text had to be dusted off! I'm not sure the Experts know for sure, in relation to DTA aspects, few if any worked examples. Were quite clear on the most of the Tax requirements, thanks to Mike L's Guide, but the practical application of the DTA / credit relief aspects and supporting documentation is still a bit wooly. The written word is there, but the practical process going forward is still a bit foggy.

Was thinking whilst browsing the English pages of the RD site, this section could be of interest to posters much earlier in the Thread with various work arounds, cash in the suitcase etc not having a plausible amount of declared income etc. https://www.rd.go.th/english/37748.html https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html#section49 Section 49. In the case where a taxpayer deriving income does not file a tax return, or the assessment official considers that he underreports the amount of his taxable income, the assessment official with the approval of the Director-General shall have the power to determine the amount of his net income on the basis of the money or property owned or possessed by such taxpayer, his expenditure or standard of living or his behavior, or the income statistics either of the taxpayer or of other persons carrying on a similar business. The official shall make an assessment accordingly and give the taxpayer a notice of the amount of tax payable. In this respect, the provisions of Sections 19 through 26 shall apply mutatis mutandis. ( https://www.rd.go.th/english/37745.html )

Hopefully most fulltimers in Thailand (over 65) will be able to coast through on their basic 65k THB/month and some actual experience reports at the start of 2025 filing will enlighten. That would upto circa 280k exposed to tax but at the lowest two bands 5 and 10%. Would have to hope the other countries don't issue a memo.

Looked like it picked up a bit in the link https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/other-taxes

A couple of other links https://www.gov.uk/tax-sell-home https://www.gov.uk/tax-live-abroad-sell-uk-home Would you not have to stay there for at least 92 Days per year to maintain your UK Tax residency, via sufficient Ties Test If your on the property more than 1 day per year/more than 16 days per year. & 91 days per year over at two year period, unless you have 90 days plus in the last couple of years already. Not sure if Thai RD would recognise it as inheritance it depends on the transaction your Solicitor made. https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm11000 https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm11500 https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm11710 I think safety would be not being in Thailand more than 179 days in the calendar year and also being UK Tax Resident, when you sell your house

Has AUD not appreciated 2.3% against the THB over the last month, 1% THB savings rate so less than 2% relative issue? Seems a bad option to own property, assets, that cannot be managed under a 30 day tourist exempt. Only family, Thai ID card holders should own things me thinks Retirement Visa is only the label, not definitely the contents list, which is in perpetual detail Flux, or it seems that way since 2018 Back to back external investment yeilding against rental cost still an option? 17 months out of 24 months seems still do-able as it's still remittance basis ( perhaps enjoy it whilst you can applies) live on your unremitted Thai tax assessable whilst non tax resident, and remit the derived in year stuff whilst not in Thailand more than 179. It is becoming increasingly awkward if still essentially one foot in each of two (or more) countries.

I would imagine 1M THB in cash would be a negative, like 'where did you get it?' Suggest 38000 THB would be plenty to open, whilst perhaps implying 800k+ to follow once set up.