snowleopard

Snowleopard,

As you say, one dresses 'accordingly' because one knows the context or what has been said, but it's the same for 'appropriately'. For example, when foreigners go to The Grand Palace they're told to dress 'appropriately', in other words, respect the Thai cultural norms, remember the context one is in. Like 'accordingly' you can't dress 'appropriately' if you don't know the conditions, context,etc.

This leads me to the useful idiom,' splitting hairs'. do you know the Thai equivalent?

Yours,

bannork.

As you say, one dresses 'accordingly' because one knows the context or what has been said, but it's the same for 'appropriately'. For example, when foreigners go to The Grand Palace they're told to dress 'appropriately'

Hi Bannork,

If for some reason you were told to dress "inappropriately"by an authority which you respect,then you should dress "accordingly",shouldn't you?

(e.g civil disobedience)

They aren't real synonyms but I get your point,Bannork.

Then again,I was referring to the other definition.

Cheers.

Snowleopard

i rang my friend and said mor fan,he didnt understand??????????/ lol

If หมอฟัน "moh fun" does't work,you could use the synonym ทันตแพทย์ "tun-dta-paet" instead!

Good luck with your pronunciations.

Snowleopard

Stock exchange is ตลาดหลักทรัพย์ - dalahtlaksahp

Scouse.

It's a good word Scouse!

Instead of ตลาดหลักทรัพย์ "dta-laat luck-sup",you could also say either ตลาดค้าหุ้น "dta-laat kaa huhn" or ตลาดหุ้น "dta-laat huhn"!

Snowleopard.

Now you have lost me guys!

Don't worry about it Neeranam!

Craftwork thought it was the gay forum!

He's the one who got lost!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

ผลการเจรจาในครั้งนี้จะเป็นอย่างไรก็ช่าง พวกเขาไม่สนใจเลย เพราะไม่ได้มีส่วนได้ส่วนเสียในเรื่องนี้

I can think of half a dozen different ways we could recast this in Thai, to yield a similar meaning, or perhaps change the register a little: make it less formal, add words to give a sassy or spiky emphasis (if that's what we want).

I think you're bluffing,Craftwork!

Why are you suddenly using the pronoun "WE" when calling for a sixfold recasting of my sentence in Thai?

Why haven't you already done it yourself on a Thai language keyboard?.

I'm suspicious of your self-proclaimed proficiency in reading and writing Thai and I'd like to see you put your money where your mouth is.

This is the Thai language forum after all.

I expect to see those six sentences in Thai from you in your next post.OK?

You don't have to agree with anything;and,frankly,I don't care whether you do or not

Is this kind of hostility really necessary?

I wasn't addressing you!

The hostility you perceive is in your own mind.You just see the world the way you are,don't you C.W.?

Has the world been hostile and subjected you to a lot of "gay bashing" and;thus,made you this paranoid?

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

Snowleopard,

In your sentence, ก้ช่าง is with ผลการเจรจา not with พวกเขา so if you use 'accordingly' there the sentence is 'the results went accordingly' which means according to plan,but the point in your sentence is they don't care about the outcome of the talks so you have to say'whatever the outcome' or 'regardless of the outcome', not 'accordingly.

I'm surprised you don't accept 'appropriately' as a substitute for 'accordingly' in the sentence 'dress accordingly'; you list 'suitably' and 'fittingly' as synomyns, I would argue  native speakers  could certainly include 'appropriately ' in that category.

Yours,

bannork.

"Because they have nothing at stake,they are accordingly not interested in the negotiations and we are unsure of what the outcome will be this time."

ผลการเจรจาในครั้งนี้จะเป็นอย่างไรก็ช่าง พวกเขาไม่สนใจเลย เพราะไม่ได้มีส่วนได้ส่วนเสียในเรื่องนี้

Snowleopard,in your sentence, ก้ช่าง is with ผลการเจรจา not with พวกเขา

Bannork,

Firstly,you cannot use your concept of an English sentence and then apply it directly onto a Thai counterpart.

There are no commas,question marks and such.

You know very well from your previous post how awkward a direct translation would become.

Secondly,"accordingly" is an adverb so it cannot modify "พวกเขา=they",which is a pronoun.

Now,I will take some time and try to explain my translation.

You don't have to agree with anything;and,frankly,I don't care whether you do or not but just bear with me awhile,will you?

One of the keywords in my sentence is "AND".

Let's divide the sentence into three parts and fill in some omitted parts which I felt would have made it tautological and accordingly left out.

1.Because they have nothing at stake,_2.they are accordingly not interested in the negotiations (and)_3.we are accordingly unsure of what the outcome of the negotiations will be this time.

If you join 2 and 3 with an "AND",do you really need to use both "accordingly" and "negotiations"twice?

If you analyzed the whole sentence,what would your conclusion be?

The Thai sentence is confirmed as accurate.I think my analysis and translation is okay too.Some colleagues and students whom I've shown it to agree as well.

I'm surprised you don't accept 'appropriately' as a substitute for 'accordingly' in the sentence 'dress accordingly'; you list 'suitably' and 'fittingly' as synomyns, I would argue  native speakers  could certainly include 'appropriately ' in that category

To avoid confusion,let's quote my post with the synonyms again,shall we?

Synonyms for appropriately=1.acceptably,2.adequately,3.amply,4.becomingly,5.fittingly,

6.properly,7.right,8.satisfactorily,9.suitably

Synonyms for accordingly=1.consequently,2. ergo,3. hence,4. so,5. then,

6.thereupon,7 thus;

(Idioms) 8.by reason of that 9.by reason of this,10. for that reason,

11. for this reason

I'm surprised you don't accept 'appropriately' as a substitute for 'accordingly'

The reason people can understand "dress accordingly",when it is said,is because it's understood from the context in which it is used,or from what's been said,but not because it's a direct synonym to "dress appropriately".

You should always dress appropriately.

Let's remember that "accordingly" has two different definitions.Here they are...

1.Accordingly= for that reason;therefore/Example/:"They are accordingly not interested in the negotiations...=They are therefore not interested in...".

2.Accordingly= in a manner that is suggested by what is known or has been said/Example/:"You know we are going fishing so dress accordingly".(i.e.appropriately).

First you need to know according to what norm and particular task you're supposed to dress appropriately.Then dress accordingly.

I'm using the first definition of "accordingly"in my sentence and translation so let's not confuse it with the second one now,shall we?(i.e.accordingly=therefore)

In Thai;"appropriately" would be_ อย่างเหมาะสม "yaang moh-som"_ and that wouldn't be appropriate in the above translation at all.

Hope this post has narrowed the gap a bit or even bridged it?

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

I either heard or read this somewhere recently, and cannot for the life of me remember where. But the phrase was "Waen Kham": เวร กรรม which I interpret as "Karma turns", similar to "Som nam naa" - serves you right.

Can someone confirm this, and would it be OK to use in place of "Som nam naa"?

Check out this thread!

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17081

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

Snowleopard,

I would say the best translation of your sentence would be-

'They are not interested  in the outcome of the present discussions/negotiations as they have no vested interests at stake'

If we translate it following the Thai sequence of words-

' The outcome of the present/ongoing talks will be WHATEVER, they are not interested as they have no vested interests at stake.'

This clearly sounds clumsy in English and could be improved by substituting 'will be whatever' by 'are irrelevant to them as they...'

I'm sorry, I just don't see how you can use 'accordingly' in your example

2 more examples of 'accordingly'-

'dress accordingly', ie dress appropriately

'The Thai language website degenerated into a discussion about the use of English words, accordingly, 99% of the viewers were bored to tears.'

Time to attend to the cows,

yours,

bannork. อยู่บ้านนอกของเราดีกว่า......

ผลการเจรจาในครั้งนี้จะเป็นอย่างไรก็ช่าง พวกเขาไม่สนใจเลย เพราะไม่ได้มีส่วนได้ส่วนเสียในเรื่องนี้

I'm sorry, I just don't see how you can use 'accordingly' in your example

Hi there Bannork,

How about using "accordingly" like this? ...Behold!

"Because they have nothing at stake,they are accordingly not interested in the negotiations and we are unsure of what the outcome will be this time."

ผลการเจรจาในครั้งนี้จะเป็นอย่างไรก็ช่าง พวกเขาไม่สนใจเลย เพราะไม่ได้มีส่วนได้ส่วนเสียในเรื่องนี้

Now you see?

'dress accordingly', ie dress appropriately

Synonyms for appropriately=1.acceptably,2.adequately,3.amply,4.becomingly,5.fittingly,

6.properly,7.right,8.satisfactorily,9.suitably

Synonyms for accordingly=1.consequently,2. ergo,3. hence,4. so,5. then,

6.thereupon,7 thus;

(Idioms) 8.by reason of that 9.by reason of this,10. for that reason,

11. for this reason

อยู่บ้านนอกของเราดีกว่า......

ผมมีบ้านสามหลังอยู่แล้ว จึงไม่สนใจซื้อหลังนั้นที่เธอจะขายในชนบท

Cheers.

Snowleopard

We are reading about the "Vai-roon's". (Thai) Youths making problems, I understand.

What is the correct definition?

I take it George is interested in the connotations of the word "wai roon" in Thai...?

Anyway, thank you Snowleopard for further enriching my glossary. Keep em comin'!

I think a fair English equivalent for the word "wai roon" might be "youngsters". The Thai word in itself has no explicit negative connotations per se, but it is less formal than 'yawachon'.

youngsters was the word I think match Vai-roon's

I am writing an article, and was just curious.

Thanks!

Hi George,

I'm gonnal try to clarify วัยรุ่น "wai ruhn" and some related words and give their definitions...

First the word วัย "wai" which is a prefix and means "age;years etc."

A synonym for วัย "wai" is อายุ "aa-yo"

(รุ่น "ruhn"=generation;class etc.)

Here are a few examples of words with the วัย "wai" prefix...

1.วัยทารก "wai taa-rok"=infancy

2.วัยเยาว์ " wai yaow"=babyhood (also juvenile)

3.วัยเด็ก "wai dek"=childhood years

4.วัยรุ่น "wai ruhn"=teenage (see full definition below)

5.วัยกลางคน "wai glaang kon"=middle age

6.วัยชรา "wai cha-raa";or,วัยแก่ "wai gae"=old age

7.วัยทำงาน "wai tham-ngaan"=working age

The definition of "wai tham-ngaan"=working age is:..วัยที่ใช้พลังทางร่างกายและสติปัญญาผลิตงานออกมา=The period a person has enough body strength and intelligence to be productive in the work force.

8.วัยผู้ใหญ่ "wai poo-yai"=adult age;adulthood

Let's now concentrate in more detail on the vocab describing those years of "metamorphosis"...

1a.วัยรุ่น "wai ruhn" (noun)=teenager; adolescent; youth; juvenile

1b.วัยรุ่น "wai ruhn" (adjective)=teenage; adolescent; boyish; girlish; juvenile; immature; young

definition:ระยะเวลาของอายุที่อยู่ในช่วงวัยรุ่นซึ่งมีอายุมากกว่าวัยเด็กแต่ยังไม่ถึงวัยผู้ใหญ่=The age period in life when one is a teenager.From the end of childhood but not an adult yet.

These synonyms are sometimes used for วัยรุ่น "wai ruhn":

a)วัยกำดัด "wai gahm-daht"=teenage; adolescent; boyish; girlish; juvenile; immature; young

b.วัยหนุ่มสาว "wai nuhm-saow"= teenage; adolescent; young

c)วัยแรกรุ่น "wai raek ruhn"=puberty; adolescence; teens

d)วัยหนุ่มวัยสาว "wai nuhm wai saow"=youth; boyhood; girlhood; adolescence

e)เด็กวัยรุ่น "dek wai-ruhn"=adolescent; teenage

2.เยาวชน "yao-wa chon";= youth; juvenile;minor

Definition of เยาวชน "yao-wa chon"= บุคคลอายุเกิน 14 ปีบริบูรณ์ แต่ยังไม่ถึง 18 ปีบริบูรณ์ และมิใช่เป็นผู้บรรลุนิติภาวะแล้วด้วยการสมรส =A person over the age of 14 but under 18 and still not of age to get legally married.

3.ยุวชน "yoh-wa-chon"=juvenile;youth;young people

Juvenile can be all of the following:

a)ยุวชน "yoh-wa-chon"

b.วัยเด็ก "wai dek"

c)วัยเยาว์ "wai yaow"

d)เยาวชน "yao-wa chon"

e)เด็ก "dek"

4.หนุ่มสาว "nuhm-saow";คนหนุ่มสาว "khon nuhm-saow";คนหนุ่มคนสาว "kon nuhm kon saow"=youth

definition:ผู้อยู่ในวัยทำงานหรือวัยหนุ่มสาว=People of working age or young people;also,ที่มีอายุพ้นวัยเด็กแล้ว, ที่อยู่ในวัยทำงาน=One who has passed childhood and reached working age;and,อายุอยู่ในช่วงวัยรุ่น=a teenager

5.วัยเริ่มหนุ่มสาว "wai reum nuhm-saow"=puberty;pubescence;adolescence

6.วัยเด็ก "wai dek"=childhood; boyhood or girlhood; immaturity; infancy

Definition:ระยะที่อายุยังน้อย=The period when one is still small.

Synonyms:วัยเด็กเล็ก "wai dek lek";วัยต้น "wai dton";ปฐมวัย "patom-wai"

7.วัยสาว "wai saow"=girlhood; maidenhood

8.อ่อนวัย "oohn wai"=to be young

9.ช่วงวัยรุ่น "choo-ang wai-ruhn"=adolescence;teenage

Hope you can find some interesting tidbits among the above!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

Neeranam,

You're right, ก็ช่าง means'let it be','so be it ' ,'accordingly'  can have a negative ring in a formal sense,though it's rarely used by native speakers nowadays .

He was lazy, accordinglyhe failed his exams. Here accordingly means 'so' in the sense he deserved it, no need to do anything about it.

Snowleopard is wrong, ก็ช่าง we learn everyday.

Yours,

bannork.

Snowleopard is wrong, ก็ช่าง we learn everyday.

Hold your horses there,you... "hicks from the sticks"!

(i.e. cowhands out in "barn-nok")

I'd say that the best translation for ก็ช่าง "goh chang" in this Thai sentence is "accordingly"!

ผลการเจรจาในครั้งนี้จะเป็นอย่างไรก็ช่าง พวกเขาไม่สนใจเลย เพราะไม่ได้มีส่วนได้ส่วนเสียในเรื่องนี้

Do you have a better one to offer there?

Neeranam,

Sometimes ก็ช่าง "goh chang" can be translated as "never mind".

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

We are reading about the "Vai-roon's". (Thai) Youths making problems, I understand.

What is the correct definition?

I take it George is interested in the connotations of the word "wai roon" in Thai...?

Anyway, thank you Snowleopard for further enriching my glossary. Keep em comin'!

I think a fair English equivalent for the word "wai roon" might be "youngsters". The Thai word in itself has no explicit negative connotations per se, but it is less formal than 'yawachon'.

I take it George is interested in the connotations of the word "wai roon" in Thai...?

What definition is thy true wish here,George?

All juveniles or only the offenders?

Please give us a sign!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

I myself like Mai Charoenpura  Just seeing who the majority like and why?  Mai is a good singer and performer  My wife just sent me a concert of hers and she's also sexy as ###### !!!

Thanks for all replys

(Trying to get everyone out of bargirl world maybe hopefully) 

I love Carabao! Great musicians and personalities.

Lek Carabao has been my pesonal friend for some years.

He's the politest person I've ever met too.

Cheers.

Snowleopard

Or how about:

JeeGor  จิ๊กโก๋  ?

A person taking pleasure in violating the usual set of norms.

Cheers

Michael

จิ๊กโก๋ "je-gor" is a good one Michael!

Sometimes กุ๊ย "ghuy" could be used too!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

What about "gaw chang" - don't care

ก็ชช่าง      ?

Hi Neeranam,

It should be spelt ก็ช่าง "goh chaang" but the meaning is NOT "don't care"!

The meaning of ก็ช่าง "goh chaang" is like the English "accordingly".

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

I just happened to be looking at Snow Leopard's post containing "chang hua man" when my wife started wittering on about nothing in particular. I responded with the phrase much to her amusement. Nowt wrong with it.

Scouse.

Using it shouldnt cause any retribution in most settings.

It's a synonym for ช่างมัน "chaang mun" which lots of people use frequently.

ชั่งหัวมัน "chang hua mun"= It doesn't matter; never mind; no matter; don't worry etc.

A couple of antonyms to the above expressions would be...

1. แยแส "yae sae"

2.ใส่ใจ "sai jai"

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

We are reading about the "Vai-roon's". (Thai) Youths making problems, I understand.

What is the correct definition?

A couple of others would be...

1.อาชญากร "aatcha-yaa-gon"=mobster

2.เหล่าร้าย "laow raai"= gangster

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

We are reading about the "Vai-roon's". (Thai) Youths making problems, I understand.

What is the correct definition?

Hi George,

Several appropriate names spring to mind but I've settled for these three labels...

1.อันธพาล "ahnta-paan"=social evil doer (also คนพาล "kon paan")

2.นักเลง "nak-laeng"=hooligan; hoodlum; rascal

3.หัวไม้ "ho-a maai"=rogue;ruffian

Thanks for a great forum!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

It might be useful to start a thread on the Thai names for various household and common plant tools.  My Haas edition 1964 makes for a good read if you know the initial Thai word!

For example, what are the names for screwdriver (flat-blade & Phillips), hammer  ค้อน , crescent wrench (adjustable spanner in UK) and hacksaw etc?

Cheers,

Boon Mee

Hello BoonMee,

Here are a few I've compiled...

1.crescent wrench (spanner)=กุญแจเลื่อน "kuhn-jae leu-an"

2.hammer=ค้อน "koorn"

3.Phillips screwdriver=ไขควงสามแฉก "kai ko-ang saam chaek""

4.flat blade screwdriver=ไขควง "kai ko-ang"

5.saw=เลื่อย "leu-ai"

6.hacksaw=เลื่อยตัดโลหะ "leu-ai dtat lo-ha"

7.circular saw=เลื่อยวงเดือน "leu-ai wong deu-an"

8.handsaw=เลื่อยลันดา "leu-ai lan-daa"

9.pliers=คีมปากจิ้งจก "keem paak jing-jok"

10.bench vise=ปากกา "paak-kaa" (ปากกาสำหรับจับของ "paak-kaa sum-rup jup koorng")

11.pincers=คีมปากนกแก้ว "keem paak nok gaeow"

12.nail=ตะปู "dta-poo"

13.grinder=เครื่องขัด "kreu-ang kut"

14.file=ตะไบ "dta-bai"

15.electric drill=สว่าน "sa-waan"

16.blowtorch=เตาฟู่ dtao-foo";or,เครื่องพ่นไฟ "kreu-ang pon fai"

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

Hi Snowleopard

I seem to recall having heard the expression Dtaa Khaaow like in "white eyes" (sorry no thai keyboard at work) meaning naive as well. But I am a bit suspicious as to whether it is a valid expression or not.

Is that a valid expression and if yes, do you think that it conveys the meaning of naive?

Cheers

Michael

Is that a valid expression and if yes, do you think that it conveys the meaning of naive?

Hi Michael,

ตาขาว "dtaa kaow"=white eyes.

It's certainly a valid expression but it means more like cowardly;fearful;timid;spineless and such.

Synonyms of ตาขาว "dtaa kaow"(white eyes) would be...1.ขี้ขลาด "kee klaat";and,2.ขลาด "klaat"

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

7.ความอ่อนประสบการณ์ "kwaam ohn pra-sop gaan"=naive;inexperienced

Hi Snow Leopard,

I was taught that kwaam (ความ) plus an adjective creates an abstract noun as in kwaam + soo-ay (ความสวย) = beauty. So would your example above be rather translated as naivety/inexperience or have I grabbed the wrong end of the stick?

Cheers,

Scouse.

Hi Scouser,

You're quite right in your assertion that the prefix ความ "kwaam" is used with adjectives to form nouns in Thai!

I should have used the Thai adjectives for naive;inexperienced.

Here they are...

1.ไร้ประสบการณ์ "rai pra-sop gaan"=inexperienced

2.ไม่มีประสบการณ์ "mai mee pra-sop gaan"=inexperienced

3.ขาดประสบการณ์ "kaat pra-sop gaan"=inexperienced

Here is a related word which uses ความ "kwaam" but it is still used as an adjective!

ขาดความชำนาญ "kaat kwaam cham-naan"=unskilled.

Some English to Thai translations,and vice versa,are also easier if you change an adjective and use a noun instead.

For example...I am happy.=ผมมีความสุข "pom mee kwaam suhk"!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

Hi Snowleopard,

Sorry to confuse you - I was trying to spell phonetically and didn't quite make the mark!

Did a little more research as to naive in Thai and อ่อนฅ่โลก "on taa look" and ว่าง่ย "vanaii" or เขอคนง่ย "cheu khon nai" seem to be the more easily recognized words.

Do you know of any others?

Thanks as always for your help!   

Cheers,

Boon Mee

Did a little more research as to naive in Thai

Do you know of any others?

Thanks as always for your help! 

Hi BoonMee,

Here are a few suggestions for naive and related words...

1.ไร้เดียงสา"rai dee-ang saa"=innocent; naive; childlike; artless; simple; credulous; ingenuous; unworldly

2.หน่อมแน้ม "nohm naem"=childish; innocent; naive; artless

3.ไม่รู้เดียงสา "mai rooh dee-ang saa"=be innocent

4.แป๋ว "paeow"=innocent; unaffected; artless

5.ซื่อๆ "seu-seu"=honest; faithful; straightforward;naive;unsophisticated

6.บริสุทธิ์ใจ "borisuht jai"=ingenuous

7.ความอ่อนประสบการณ์ "kwaam ohn pra-sop gaan"=naive;inexperienced

8.ตรงไปตรงมา "dtrong pai dtrong maa"=unsophisticated

9.อ่อนต่อโลก "ohn dto lohk"=unworldly;green

10.เหมือนเด็ก "meu-an dek"=naive;childlike

11.ไม่มีเล่ห์เหลี่ยม "mai mee lae lee-am"=straightforward with no ulterior motives

12.มีจิตใจที่อ่อนแอ"mee jit jai tee ohn ae"=susceptible

13.โดนหลอกง่าย "dohn loohk ngai"=gullible;fleeceable

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

Farang are often accused of being  เชื้อ  (seeu) - is there another word in Thai that explains a Farang's "innocent frankness"?

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Hi there BoonMee,

I'm a bit confused as to what word you actually mean.

Farang are often accused of being เชื้อ (seeu)

That word เชื้อ (cheu-a),with "mai tooh",can mean such various things as sperm;germ; pathogen;infection;lineage; descendant; pedigree; nationality; family etc.

The similar เชื่อ (cheu-a),with "mai ek",=believe in; have faith in.

Mentioning "naive",I suspect that you could even be talking about ซื่อ (seu)?

I might have some good suggestions once I know exactly which of the above you mean.

Please elaborate some more,will you?

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

I tried this one the other day, my friend said it was called 'dragonfruit'

The outside is weird, sorta like a dragon (?), the inside was white with tiny black seeds and it had a soft texture, nice stuff...

what's da thai word?

I reckon you're talking about แก้วมังกร "gaeow mang-gorn"!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

Hi RC,

The Mary Haas Thai-English student's dictionary shows it as "ween'kam' - เวรภรรม" meaning fate or a misfortune as a result of karma. An alternative given is that in "Eastern" Thai it is a means of expressing bad luck or fate.

Cheers,

Scouse.

"ween'kam' - เวรภรรม"

Hi Scouser,

I think it should be spelt เวรกรรม "waen kham" with a ก "koh gai"instead!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

เวรกำ what does this mean in english.

Cheers RC

Hi there Random,

I think it should be spelt เวรกรรม "waen kham".

It means "to take a bad turn" and the best English word to describe it might be "retribution"! Fate and misfortune are also okay.

OK as translations I mean!

It's part of กฏแห่งกรรม "goht haeng kham"=The Law of Karma.

Cheers.

Snowleopard.