snowleopard

10. sacrilege: ก้นข้อมลเพีมเติม

For "sacrilege",let me suggest one of the following instead...

1.การเหยียดหยามศาสนา "gaan yee-at yaan sat-sa-naa"

2.การดูหมิ่นสิ่งศักดิ์สิทธิ์ "gaan doo min sing sahk-sit"

Cheers,

Snowleopard

Well, if he is maybe he can check my spelling?

1.   miniscule:  เล็กจีว

2.   inoculate:  ฉีด (วัคชีน)

3.   supercede:  ยกให้

4.   millennium:  ระยะเวลาหนีงพ้นปี

5.   accommodation:  การอํานวยความสะดวก

6.   liaison:  การติดต่อประสานงน

7.   harass: รลกวน

8.   kindergarten:  โรงเรียนอนุบาล

9.   refer:  อางอิง

10. sacrilege:  ก้นข้อมลเพีมเติม

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Looks like I can make a homework assignment out of this one. Try to work out the pronounciation and transliteration of these words in Thai. Thanks Boon!

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Hi Boon Mee,

Here are some typos corrected...

1.  miniscule:  เล็กจีว

7.  harass: รลกวน

รบกวน "rop go-an"

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

I've worked as a Thai translator and interpreter since 1981, so am quite picky when it comes to translation.

I see your point about nae nae at the end, but that's like saying 'I probably left my keys ... for sure," and sounds as awkward in Thai as it does in English.

How about.."I must have lost my key"

คง never means 'must'

I disagree about the correctness of จะ as well.

จำเป็นต้อง "jum-bpen dtorng"is more commonly used than จำเป็นจะต้อง "jum-bpen ja dtorng";but both of them are correct.

In my sentence,the meaning is more direct and stronger without "ja" so I think it's the better choice.

Snowleopard.

Just a couple clarifications.

2.จำเป็นต้อง "jum-bpen dtorng"(more emphatic expression with must)

เขาจำเป็นต้องขออนุญาตครูก่อน "kaow jum-bpen dtorng ano-yaat kroo gorn"=He must ask permission from his teacher first.

More commonly (and correctly) with จะ as จำเป็นจะต้อง. Colloquially จะ may sometimes be omitted, but not by educated speakers. Or at least that's my impression.

4.คง "kong"(sometimes translated as may_sometimes as must)

ผมคงทำลูกกุญแจหล่นหายไปแล้วแน่ ๆ "pom kong tum luhk-kohn-jae lon haai bpai nae nae"=I must have lost my key.

Its literal meaning is 'sure, solid, stable,' etc, and when used as a modal (i.e., in conjuction with a verb), คง (or its full form, คงจะ) is thus more commonly translated as 'probably' rather than either 'may' (not strong enough) or 'must have' (too strong).

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More commonly (and correctly) with จะ as จำเป็นจะต้อง.

จำเป็นต้อง "jum-bpen dtorng"is more commonly used than จำเป็นจะต้อง "jum-bpen ja dtorng";but both of them are correct.

In my sentence,the meaning is more direct and stronger without "ja" so I think it's the better choice.

Colloquially จะ may sometimes be omitted, but not by educated speakers. Or at least that's my impression.

Wrong impression...

and,it's definitely better to know some Thai than to only know some Thais.

  คง= 'may' (not strong enough) or 'must have' (too strong).

If you consider แน่ ๆ "nae nae" at the end,I'd still say that "must have" is the best translation of my Thai sentence.

ผมคงทำลูกกุญแจหล่นหายไปแล้วแน่ ๆ "pom kong tum luhk-kohn-jae lon haai bpai nae nae"=I must have lost my key.

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

a couple of queries inspired by visits to friends in Bangkok: can any of the bright sparks provide a Thai idiom equivalent to, 'burning the candle at both ends'? and secondly,'they've moved the goalposts!', (ie the criteria or standards have changed)

yours,

bannork.

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Hi Bannork,

Thai expressions with similar meanings to those English idioms...

'burning the candle at both ends'

'they've moved the goalposts!', (ie the criteria or standards have changed)

2.'they've moved the goalposts=เขาได้เปลียนข้อตกลงแล้ว "kaow dai plee-ang ko dtok-long laeow".

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

There are also many that can't be replaced by the single word:

เขาฆ่าทำตัวเองแท้ๆ kao tum tua eng tae tae= He did this to himself (แท้ๆcan be replaced by โดยแท้ but not a single แท้)

What does the above really mean?

Snowleopard.

It's written like this in Thai...คางคกขึ้นวอ "kaang-kok keun woh". rolleyes.gif

The meaning would be something like:

"A lowly toad who has now ascended to be carried around in a canopied palanquin." tongue.gif

Could you break the literal translation down into the individual words I don't understand that well enough to use it if you know what I mean.

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1.คางคก "kaang-kok"=toad (creepy-crawly amphibian,low on the evolutionary scale)

2.ขึ้น "keun"=ascend;rise

3.วอ "woh"=canopied palanquin which royals and other dignitaries used to be carried around in.

Also ขึ้นวอ "keun woh"

Hope this helps.

Snowleopard.

Washington Irving: "There is never jealousy where there is not strong regard."

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Envy rather than jealousy I think RDN. It could have saved us all a lot of time and energy if our parents had transferred us to Thailand at the age of 10; but then again one would have missed out on certain things growing up in the teen years. Of course some straddle both cultures easily, I'm thinking of the Thai politician, Aphisit Wejachira, the prominent Democrat deputy leader(please excuse the surname spelling), eloquent in both Thai and English; but does he understand all the Monty Python jokes, can he read and fully comprehend the Sun newspaper,(God forbid)? Do some cultural references slip beneath the radar of the bilinguals? bannork

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Aphisit Wejachira (please excuse the surname spelling)

eloquent in both Thai and English; but does he understand all the Monty Python jokes

Hopefully,one day he'll be able to get the jokes in "Ministry of Silly Walks"

Snowleopard

I've heard ใหญ่ ๆ  [M?]ye[L]yai (not sure of the tone of the first syllable) used to mean 'bigger', and my wife uses it to mean 'extra-large' (XL) in clothing sizes.

There's also the four-fold reduplication (with vowel and tone changes) of บ้า [F]baa 'mad', something like บะบ้าบะบ๋อ 'stark-raving mad'.

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There's also the four-fold reduplication (with vowel and tone changes) of บ้า [F]baa 'mad', something like บะบ้าบะบ๋อ 'stark-raving mad'.

Is it this one you mean Richard?

บ้า ๆ บอ ๆ "Baa-Baa Boh-Boh"!

Cheers and Welcome back.

Snowleopard.

Thanks RC...I see Snowleopard "lurking" the thread.  Perhaps he can shed more light?

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sabaijai Posted Today, 2004-11-29 13:14:49

  must = ต้อง

ought to = น่าจะ

should = ควรจะ

Hi folks,

You're right BoonMee.I was lurking around a bit before but I had a hangover from yesterday's binge so I went back to bed!

Sabaijai's post was informative and I'll try to provide some more info about "MUST"...

First we should remember that both English and Thai are separate languages,which exist on their own,and both are comprehensible to mono-lingual speakers of either language without being translated back and forth.

The English "must"/"have to" can be served by several different words in Thai,depending on the necessity.

Here are some of those Thai words with examples...

1.ต้อง "dtorng" (not so strong expression with must)

เขามีการบ้านต้องทำ "kaow mee gaan baan dtorng tum"=He's got some homework he must do.

2.จำเป็นต้อง "jum-bpen dtorng"(more emphatic expression with must)

เขาจำเป็นต้องขออนุญาตครูก่อน "kaow jum-bpen dtorng ano-yaat kroo gorn"=He must ask permission from his teacher first.

3.จำเป็น "jum-bpen"(When "jum-bpen" is at the end of the sentence,"dtorng" is not necessary)

ผมไม่ชอบฆ่าคนถ้าไม่จำเป็นจริง ๆ "pom mai chop kaa kon taa mai jum-bpen jing jing"=I don't like killing people unless I must do it.

4.คง "kong"(sometimes translated as may_sometimes as must)

ผมคงทำลูกกุญแจหล่นหายไปแล้วแน่ ๆ "pom kong tum luhk-kohn-jae lon haai bpai nae nae"=I must have lost my key.

5.จง "jong"

จงระวังตัวให้ดี "jong ra-wang dto-a hai dee"=You must take good care of yourself.

6.จำต้อง "jum-dtorng"

คืนนี้ฝนตกหนักมาก การขับรถอาจมีอันตราย ดังนั้น เราจำต้องค้างที่นี่อีกหนึ่งคืน "keun nee fon dtok nuk maak,gaan cup rot aat mee ahnta-raai, dung nun raow jum-dtorng kaang tee nee eek neung keun"=It's raining so heavily tonight that driving might be hazardous;therefore,we must lodge here for another night.

Negatives..."Must not" vs. "Don't have to"...

7.ห้าม "haam"(must not)

ห้ามไปที่นั่นเพราะว่ามีอันตราย "haam bpai tee nan pro-waa mee ahnta-raai"=You must not go there because it is dangerous.

8.ไม่ต้องก็ได้ "mai dtorng goh dai"(don't have to)

ไม่ต้องไปที่นั่นก็ได้นเพราะว่ามันไม่สนุกเลย "mai dtorng pai tee nan goh dai pro-waa mai sanohk ley"=You don't have to go there cuz it ain't no fun.

Hope this is useful.

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

Ok guys. For those in the know. Its not for me but someone on another forum is coming to Thailand to do a cycling tour around. They can't eat peanuts, So they basically want to tell people in Thai that this is the case. My gf helped me to tell them the way to say it. But what would be even better was if they can have it written in Thai script. that way then they can show people.(providing they can read that is) . So come on guys this is a serious thing that can kill you if your not careful.

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This is probably the easiest way to say and write it in Thai...

ฉันแพ้ถั่วลิสง "chan pae to-a le-song"

Cheers.

Snowleopard

Help please from the experts .....

I have the days of the week down pat as far as speaking goes. But a few things are still unanswered in my mind.

Monday – วันจันทร์ - /m/wan /m/jan

Tuesday – วันอังดาร - /m/wan /m/ang /m/kahn

Wednesday – วันพุธ - /m/wan /h/put

Thursday – วันพฤหัสบดื - /m/wan /h/pa /h/reu /l/hat /l/sa /m/bor /m/dee

Friday – วันศุกร์ - /m/wan /l/suk

Saturday – วันเสาร์ - /m/wan /r/sao

Sunday – วันเอาทิตย์ - /m/wan /m/ah /h/tit

But there are a few things that I don't understand yet.

- Monday, Friday and Saturday have the ร์ character at the end. What is it called and what does it mean?

- Sunday has the ย์ character at the end. What is it called and what does it mean?

- With Thursday, I'm used to using the shortened form. Is the "/l/sa /m/bor /m/dee" part on the end a more formal way of saying it? Is it not normally used in regular conversation?

TIA for any replies ...

Cheers,

Spee สพี

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But there are a few things that I don't understand yet.

Sunday – วันเอาทิตย์ - /m/wan /m/ah /h/tit

- Sunday has the ย์ character at the end. What is it called and what does it mean?

The words with the "gahrun" mark(mai tun-ta-kaat) are shortened forms of longer words which are often of foreign origin.

Let's look at Sunday as an example.

Sunday-วันอาทิตย์ 'wun aa-tit'/อาทิตย์ 'aa-tit'_อาทิตย 'aa-tit-dta-ya'_อาทิตยวาร 'aa-tit-dta-ya waan"

The word อาทิตย์ 'aa-tit' ,which is also found in the Thai words for "sun" and "week" ,comes from the name of the goddess สูรยาทิตย์ 'suh-ri-yaa-tit',whose full name is even longer.

In ancient mythology, สูรยาทิตย์ 'suh-ri-yaa-tit' shows herself to us as our sun.

She is one goddess in a group of others which also includes "Indra".

The original meaning seems to be เชื้ออาทิตย์ 'cheu-a aa-tit' =decendants of สูรยาทิตย์'suh-ri-yaa-tit',the goddess.

Apart from the 'aa-tit'part in her name,the rest of it also means sun and are found in these words...

1.สุรีย์ "suh-ree"

2.สุรียา "suh-ree yaa"

3.สุรียน (Tamil) "suh-ree yon"

4.สุรียัน (Tamil) "suh-ree yan"

Hope this helps a bit?

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

Snowleopard~

Thanks for the help.  What's interesting is when the "jaw jan" is enlarged it looks like "chaw ching"?

Let me get back to you w/more questions!

Cheers

บุญมี

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Hi BoonMee,

Here are those two letters when they are written on my Thai keyboard...

1."chor jaan" จจจจจจจจจ

2."chor ching" ฉฉฉฉฉฉฉฉ

Snowleopard.

พมจะพูด..."คนโง"...คํานีัั้้ไดัอย่างไรครับ

ขอบคุณมายครับ

บุญมี

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BoonMee,

What is it you wanna say there?

If they are the words I think they should be,then I counted 4 spelling errors.

Want me to correct them or let it be?

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

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Snowleopard~

Only four?

Well, what I was attempting to say was: "พมจะพูด" "how do I say"

"คนโง" - slang term "sucker farang" "คำนีั้" these words ไดัอย่างไรัครบ = dai yang rai krap.

Please correct as necessary!

Believe me, my ego can handle the criticism. Especially at my entry-level Thai-writing skill level!

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The spelling should be...ผมจะพูด คนโง่ คำนี้ ได้อย่างไรครับ

Maybe you could fill up some more words and say...

ผมอยากจะพูดว่า คนโง่ คำพวกนี้เขียนว่าอย่างไรครับ

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

พมจะพูด..."คนโง"...คํานีัั้้ไดัอย่างไรครับ

ขอบคุณมายครับ

บุญมี

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BoonMee,

What is it you wanna say there?

If they are the words I think they should be,then I counted 4 spelling errors.

Want me to correct them or let it be?

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

I now have quite a lot of free time during I set up my own business, and I want to use my free time to help people.  Does anyone know any association or club where I can join and offer Thai lessons for foreigners on a volunteer basis?  I'm a woman and a native Thai and looking for joining a club for that purpose.   Your help will be very much appreciated.

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Does anyone know any association or club where I can join and offer Thai lessons for foreigners on a volunteer basis?

Look no more!

I think you've just joined the right club. Welcome!

You can start teaching Thai to us disadvantaged foreigners right now,...

even as we speak!

Thanks in advance for your contributions.ยินดีต้อนรับ 'yin-dee dton rup'

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

You can get some of Buddha's quotes in English and Thai from this thread in the Buddhism Forum...

Click here.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=12302

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

sabaijai,

-'disingenous'- a deliberate intention to mislead cloaked by a thin layer of fake sincerity

Source: the UdonThani unrevised dictionary @1976

I contend อวดฉลาด is acceptable if F.F is willing to correct our farang Thai, for this forum is the Thai language, and having already established himself as our foremost scholar with 2000 books under his belt, he should dedicate himself to the advancement and progress of the Thai language by us less fortunate older citizens.

bannork.l

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I contend อวดฉลาด is acceptable

How about this description in Thai for our exhibitionistically inclined vulpine pup?

อวดอ้าง "oo-at aang"

generally,

anyone over the age 7~10 will retain an accent when learning a new language.

which languages you've studied may influence your accent.

no new language is "easy"

Mark Twain once commented that:

" i'd much rather decline a good drink, than a german noun"

the fact that thai has no tenses, pluruls, declensions, etc,

does not make it simple,

i cannot imagine learning all the "class" words, and the proper use of their application; "i have two (round things) xxxxx."

nuttin' easy,

how do you get to carnegie hall?

practice, practise, practice

xtg

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i cannot imagine learning all the "class" words, and the proper use of their application; "i have two (round things) xxxxx."

You can check for the appropriate Thai classifier in this reference library!

CLICK HERE:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14500

Cheers,

Snowleopard.

how about adding Thai equivalents to some English expressions involving geometry, for example: a vicious circle, to square up to, to go off on a tangent, to paint yourself into a corner?

here's my contribution รักสามเส้า rak sam sao, a love triangle,

bannork.

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Any chance of you contributing Thai expressions to any of the geometric expressions I mentioned earlier, for example,'going off on a tangent?'

bannork.

Okay Bannork.

Here are my suggestions in Thai to those English expressions...

1.a vicious circle=วัฏจักรแห่งความชั่วร้าย "wata-jak haeng kwaam cho-a raai"

2.to square up to(fight)=ตั้งท่าเตรียมชก "dtang taa dree-am chok"/ ชูกำปั้นใส่หน้ากัน "choo gumpan sai naa gun"

3.to go off on a tangent=ออกนอกประเด็น "ook nok pra-den"

4.to paint yourself into a corner=ทำให้ตัวเองจนตรอก "tum hai dto-a eyng jon dtrok"

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[๔.การแก้ไขข้อบกพร่องเป็นเครื่องพิสุจน์ความรู้สึกสำนึกตัวได้ดีที่สุด

perhaps a better translation would be:

'rectifying one's weaknesses is the surest sign of awareness'

(but it still looks a bit iffy)

bannork.

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How about ...๔.การแก้ไขข้อบกพร่องเป็นเครื่องพิสุจน์ความรู้สึกสำนึกตัวได้ดีที่สุด=Amendment is the best proof of repentance.

Cheers,

Snowleopard

Bannork_การขอโทษแบบไม่เต็มใจ ยังดีกว่าการไม่ขอโทษเลย "gaan koo-tood baep mai dtem-jai,yang dee kwaa gaan mai koo-tood leuy"

๑..คนฉลาดย่อมรู้ความโง่ของตน แต่คนโง่คิดว่าตนรู้ทุกสิ่งทุกอย่าง 

๒.คนฉลาดจะสร้างโอกาสขึ้นมาได้มากกว่าที่เขาจะพบได้

๓.การกระทำย่อมดีกว่าคำพูด

๔.การแก้ไขข้อบกพร่องเป็นเครื่องพิสุจน์ความรู้สึกสำนึกตัวได้ดีที่สุด

Snowleopard,

rough translations: a half-hearted apology is still better than none at all.

๑ A wise person knows his\her own ignorance\limits\foolishness whilst a fool thinks he knows it all.

๒ A clever person will create more opportunities than he will find.

๓ Action speaks louder than words

๔ Correction of [one's] faults is the best evidence of a conscience.

Any chance of you contributing Thai expressions to any of the geometric expressions I mentioned earlier, for example,'going off on a tangent?'

bannork.

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Hi Bannork,

I think your translations are quite good.

การขอโทษแบบไม่เต็มใจ ยังดีกว่าการไม่ขอโทษเลย "gaan koo-tood baep mai dtem-jai,yang dee kwaa gaan mai koo-tood leuy"

Snowleopard,

rough translations: a half-hearted apology is still better than none at all.

"A bad excuse is better than none."

การขอโทษแบบไม่เต็มใจ ยังดีกว่าการไม่ขอโทษเลย "gaan koo-tood baep mai dtem-jai,yang dee kwaa gaan mai koo-tood leuy

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

I heard this idiom and no-one can give me a proper answer.

I think it could aply to our political "leader", but not sure.

"kang koke keun woh"

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Hi Neeranam,

It's written like this in Thai...คางคกขึ้นวอ "kaang-kok keun woh".

The meaning would be something like:

"A lowly toad who has now ascended to be carried around in a canopied palanquin."

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

QUOTE(Firefoxx @ 2004-11-15 05:24:22)

(I have several thousand books, both Thai and English, and have read through all at least twice)

I'm a very avid bookworm

What would you be without those books?

An Internet worm.

Snowleopard.

Firefoxx and Alleypanda,

As his habitat shrinks and various falang\Thai andThai\ falang predators start to stake out his territory, the snowleopard fires off rounds of definitions, producing the word in contention in various combinations and sentences hoping to decimate his contenders by sheer volume; these are obviously extracted from some reference book and in many cases bear little resemblance to actual spoken Thai, see his claim for ก้ช่าง meaning 'accordingly' in 'Thai sayings', page 3.

  Still, he enjoys the fight.

bannork.

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Nevertheless, as you say, 'show me what you've got'......

see his claim for ก้ช่าง meaning 'accordingly' in 'Thai sayings', page 3.

Still, he enjoys the fight.

bannork.

Here you go again Bannork!Trying your utmost to rally the support of another lynch mob,are you?

You must be dead sure that I am wrong about ก็ช่าง "go chang" meaning "accordingly"!

I've never conceded and I still claim that "goh chang" can indeed be translated as "accordingly" in some contexts.

Over at the other thread,I also informed everyone that "goh chang" often means"never mind" as well;but it seems you didn't register that fact correctly at the time.You were too obsessed with your faultfinding mission,weren't you?

Well...I have now recalled where I once saw that Thai sentence and I have since rediscovered it.

Seeing is believing so click here and see it for yourself ,won't you "Barny".

http://lexitron.nectec.or.th/sansarn?query...D2%A7&x=63&y=21

Accordingly="goh chang"ก็ช่าง

ก็ช่าง [ADV] ; accordingly

Sample: ผลการเจรจาในครั้งนี้จะเป็นอย่างไรก็ช่าง เขาไม่สน เพราะไม่ได้มีส่วนได้ส่วนเสียในเรื่องนี้

So...Who's your daddy Bannok? ...Who's your daddy?... Who's your daddy????

Snowleopard.

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Bannork_การขอโทษแบบไม่เต็มใจ ยังดีกว่าการไม่ขอโทษเลย "gaan koo-tood baep mai dtem-jai,yang dee kwaa gaan mai koo-tood leuy"

Snowleopard.