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oakweb

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    Bitcoins banned in Thailand

    in Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments

    Posted

    Bitpay and Coinbase are reputable companies, and on every sale the Bitcoins are immediately deposited into your bank account as whatever currency you want, thus alleviating the volatility argument.

    For a long time the merchant fee's were illegal to be passed on to the customer, you can do this now. But this still does nothing to help with all the other fee's Credit Card companies charge monthly for doing little more then a digital transaction.

    Bitcoins banned in Thailand

    in Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments

    Posted

    There will be crypto currency from now on, and with the ATM's coming online and the amateurs being replaced by professionals, Bitcoin will remain the leader.

    - "Credit card swipe fee's are not very high" - I wish this was true, monthly I give these companies tens of thousands of dollars to do a simple digital transaction, when I process Bitcoin orders it costs me a fraction of what the CC companies charge me

    - "Impractical store of value" - well yes, currently it's in it's infancy. Nothing is going to be perfect out of the gate, there will be hiccups.

    I don't understand why anyone would have trusted their whole account or any large sum to Gox, or any other company. For me the majority of my coins are in offline storage and will stay that way.

    Bitcoins banned in Thailand

    in Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments

    Posted

    It's hard to believe that by this point there are still people holding their bitcoin stash at these unregulated Exchanges, I keep all mine offline. As far as a "banner argument", there was already other exchanges that went down before and most of us in the community believe that new more responsible and experienced companies will now step in to fill the roles, and you can see that happening now.

    I lost nothing at MG since I didn't store any Bitcoin at any exchange except for a few at Coinbase and some Namecoin at BTC-e. Nothing I can't afford to loose.

    Bitcoins banned in Thailand

    in Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments

    Posted

    Okay. Suppose that you’re on the island of Yap and it is the late 18th century…

    You want to get richer. You can either work on Yap doing something useful, or catamaran over to Palau where the limestone is, carve a big piece of limestone into a disk, catamaran it back, and use it as money. If the value of stone money is too low, it won’t be worth anyone’s while to catamaran over to Palau. Thus the stone money supply will stop growing if the price dips. As long as the relative desire to use stone money does not shrink faster than per-capita income on Yap plus the population of Yap grows, the value of stone money on Yap will be determined by its cost of production–that is, the cost of catamaraning it over to Palau, carving the limestone disk, and bringing it back…

    We can see this at work come the late 19th century. Europeans show up with steel tools that make it a lot easier to carve limestone disks on Palau. Thus there is a huge boom in the limestone disk-carving stone money-mining industry. And the value of stone money on Yap Falls as the money supply grows…

    Now suppose that you were on the Internet and it is the early 21st century…

    You want to get richer. You can either work doing something useful, or you can set up a botnet to mine BitCoins, or you can fork the code behind BitCoin and set up your own slightly-tweaked virtual cryptographic money network. Setting up a new, alternative network is really cheap. Thus unless BitCoin going can somehow successfully differentiate itself from the latecomers who are about to emerge, the money supply of BitCoin-like things is infinite because the cost of production of them is infinitesimal.

    How can BitCoin successfully keep itself differentiated from the latecomer copiers?

    1. By asserting, over and over again, simply that it was first. And this might work. But I am skeptical.

    2. By stressing that it has a trustworthy track record of being a safe store of value–and thus appealing to a history that the latecomers do not have. This works until someday, for some reason, demand for BitCoins falls. Then supply and demand drives the value down. BitCoin is then no longer differentiated as a safe store of value. Then the people who were holding BitCoin because they thought it was a safe store of value dump it, its price falls even more, and so it becomes even more questionable as safe store of value. And the downward spiral continues.

    Note that in these respects–unless it can successfully and permanently differentiate itself from other virtual cryptographic money networks–BitCoin is like fiat money, and unlike 18th and 19th century Yap stone money, in that its cost of production is zero.

    So how do actual fiat moneys maintain their value? Well, they don’t always do so–cough Zimbabwe, cough Weimar Germany. When they do so, it is because a government (a) accepts its money in payment of taxes, thus giving people a reason to hold it, (cool.png doesn’t want the financial chaos that hyperinflation would generate, and so © sets its central bank the mission of being a currency sink–of maintaining the value of the currency by buying it back and burning it up if necessary. Thus I tend to be a “chartalist”: commodity moneys can maintain their value via their cost of production, but fiat moneys maintain their value when some very large too-big-to-fail entity backs them.

    In my view, BitCoin’s chances would be a lot better if there were some large and durable entity that promised to be a BitCoin sink if necessary. If, say, Google Cayman Islands were to start GoogleCoin, and announce that it would always stand ready to buy back GoogleCoins at a fixed real value, it could make a (small) fortune and, I think, eliminate BitCoin’s business in a month…

    http://equitablegrowth.org/2013/12/28/1466/watching-bitcoin-dogecoin-etc

    Why does it have to differentiate itself?

    Also I realize you probably don't code, but there are a lot of reasons why Bitcoin is going to be loved by coders (think Zynga and Overstock, ATM's) over other Cryptos, but I'm not saying that other Cryptos won't make it.. I'm just asking why you think it's necessary for Bitcoin to do so for it to become successful. I believe there will likely be a few Cryptos that have significant value.

    Granted Bitcoin is a lot like Facebook or even Google in that it gains it's strength from the community that uses it. I don't see this community getting smaller, and I believe in the code, I believe the code has been out this long and it's pretty damn

    good. Is it perfect, who knows? That would be my argument if I was a non believer, that maybe someday the code can get cracked making it all useless. All the other arguments about comparing it to other Fiats, backed by this and that, makes no sense at all to me. I think anyone that argues that point just doesn't get it, and probably never will. Bitcoin already has value and it's not backed by a government, so this argument is already lost. The possibilities that Bitcoin can unlock in the future are truly amazing, and IMO it will happen.

    And as far as cost of production being zero, I don't think you are understand how miners like myself allow for Bitcoin to operate. We assist transactions, and there is also only 21 Million Bitcoins that can ever be mined.

    Bitcoins banned in Thailand

    in Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments

    Posted

    E-gold was under financed and the people who ran it did a very poor management job. They did not do enough to verify accounts or prevent money laundering. The government shut them down but didn't send anyone to jail or anything like that, it was not "a conspiracy". No reason why someone can't start up a e-gold2.

    All centralized alternative currencies will meet the same end as Liberty Dollar / E-Gold / Liberty Reserve once they reach a certain size:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar#Federal_Government_response

    It ends with the FBI kicking in the door and taking all your stuff:

    The Liberty Dollar offices were raided by agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the United States Secret Service on November 14, 2007. Bernard von NotHaus, the owner of Liberty Services, sent an email to customers and supporters saying that the FBI took all the gold, silver, and platinum, and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars. The FBI also seized computers and files and froze the Liberty Dollar bank accounts.

    Kicking down what door? Please explain how this will happen when it's decentralized.

    Bitcoins banned in Thailand

    in Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments

    Posted

    well here is one main reason:

    "the Justice Department indicted the E-gold proprietors on four counts of violating money laundering regulations"

    Who would they prosecute for Bitcoin?

    Also I would say the Bitcoin is elegant in the way that it works with it's checks and balances. It's a far superior system to use, especially for developers.

    With Zynga adoption of it, and more on the way, it shows developers keen interest to utilize it.

    Bitcoins banned in Thailand

    in Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments

    Posted

    history repeats itself. bitcoins = new tulips (a sucker is born every minute) whistling.gif

    Plenty of these 'suckers' have made millions of dollars in recent months.

    Need I remind you that the tulip industry is still to this day a billion dollar a year industry in the Netherlands ?

    Money can be made, but... MILLIONS of dollars? RECENT months? Can you even come close to substantiating that?

    Traders, investors, bitcoin miners, start ups, huge list of people that have made "millions". With my efforts I've been able

    to pull in quite a bit as well.

    You heard about the guy that lost 7000 coins in the dump, and the other guy that bought in when it was pennies and bought a condo. These are just

    some example stories. Of course later adopters will not have the same return, but the potential for growth could be that if you adopt now in 5 years

    you could have your own story to tell.

    Who knows

    Bitcoins banned in Thailand

    in Jobs, Economy, Banking, Business, Investments

    Posted

    With those ATM's going to Taiwan and Hong Kong prices are sure up again. I'm interested to see prices when Overstock offers it as a payment, and more of those ATM's hit.

    As far as being suckers, I'm interested in hearing from "Naam" what he thinks the scenario of a crash would be, I don't mind skepticism, it's always a good idea to analyze investments.

    But I've not heard exactly what he thinks is going to happen to make it fall. e.g. will all Crypto's fail? or just Bitcoin?

    My Mining Stats:

    Currently hashing now at 4.95 TH/s, 24 Hour Earnings 2.39892278 BTC

    Projected Hash Rate by March is now 33.95 TH

    Please note I have no power or bandwidth costs biggrin.png

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