WinnieTheKhwai

16 hours ago, sanemax said:

Typically , they will have a child back in the village , living with grandparents , who is 16 years younger than them , they will also have another child with a felang , living abroad.

The former is really common; much like many other below-middle class Thai women who are separated from their first boyfriend/husband.  The latter (a kid abroad) not so much; a minority has even visited a Western country, never mind having a kid there.

I think I'm a victim of trafficking.  And so is the district chief and almost everyone else.

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Anti-Trafficking Persons Act B.E 2551 (2008)

Whoever, for the purpose of exploitation, does any of the following acts:

1. procuring, buying, selling, vending, bringing from or sending to, detaining or confining, harboring, or receiving any person, by means of the threat or use of force, abduction, fraud, deception, abuse of power, or of the giving money or benefits to achieve the consent of a person having control over another person in allowing the offender to exploit the person under his control; or
2. procuring, buying, selling, vending, bringing from or sending to, detaining or confining, harboring, or receiving a child;

is guilty of trafficking in persons.

“Exploitation” means seeking benefits from the prostitution, production or distribution of pornographic materials, other forms of sexual exploitation, slavery, causing another person to be a beggar, forced labour or service, coerced removal of organs for the purpose of trade, or any other similar practices resulting in forced extortion, regardless of such person’s consent.

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"Forced labour or service, regardless of consent."..     Wot?    If you consent to something, how is it forced?

So, yeah, distribute stickers about something that nobody understands.

What exactly is human trafficking, as it relates to Thai pubs and bars? 

Honestly if people understood what it is then they could help..  with.. .. whatever that is.

If you hire a 17 year old who herself got on a Rung Ruang bus to Pattaya, are you now guilty of trafficking?  Why actually does age matter when it comes to 'trafficking'?    And does the line of work matter?  And does it matter if the person is Thai or not?

I really wish I understood the offense.. I hear it all the time.  But.. what is it?

39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Quota .

How would they fill a quota when many gogos have less customers than they have girls?

So many urban myths!

In the better gogos the girls don't even beg for a drink, and sit elsewhere unless the customer asks them to sit with him ( or her ).

 

BTW I've had bar girls sit with me for ages and no drinks- only gave them some money when I left.

Well, some just choose not to bother with the whole quota / target thing.  Many don't take a salary, which also means they can show up pretty much when they want. That said, I do wish more bar had a fairer attitude to HR; when you pay a regular salary that also means staff get social benefits.  Especially for fixed cashier staff I can't think of a reason to not have them on a proper payroll.

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good idea not to ogle one or make eye contact, as that gives them the idea you want them to sit with you.

But but..  I DO want them to sit with me!    Or at least close enough for conversation, across the bar is fine.

For Huli and others there's probably a lot more I can say about the topic of 'bar etiquette' in general. 

Most prominently, keep in mind that bars are still Thailand and Thai culture and manners apply, in many ways even more so than in other places.  Things that gain you karma-brownie-points (to avoid the words 'respect' and 'appreciation') in general life in Thailand are very much the same in bars.

So let's hear it for "Thainess".. in no particular order:

* Generosity. This is most closely related to the lady drink topic, but keep in mind that there are other ways to be generous. Bar workers who know me also know that I will never ever say no to (partly) funding a food or snack purchase from some vendor.  50-80 Baht does not buy a ladydrink, but it buys a feckload of mystery-meatballs on sticks, that lots of staff can share. You've now demonstrated generosity beyond any doubt.  Even when not buying ladydrinks, you've permanently avoided the tightwad category.  Heck I even bring snacks, fruit or cookies to bars sometimes. Or small gifts and trinkets from Chiang Mai when going to Pattaya. Or, better than just about anything: stuff from Europe or the US after an overseas trip.  Girls often remember this for years, long after I completely forgot about it.

* Being considerate. a.k.a. 'mai pen rai'.  Being a bar girl / sex worker can be tough at times. Don't make it harder than it needs to be, also when they make mistakes, are very busy serving drinks, etc.  Don't be demanding.  They open the wrong kind of beer?  Fine, no prob. They open the wrong kind of beer (or make the wrong drink) for another customer who turns that into a big deal: fine, serve it to me.  A group of backpacker ladies break a glass and it turns into a major discussion on if they broke it or the waitress broke it…: (this last week): I nip it in the bud by asking how much a glass costs anyway (80 Baht) and ask the waitress to stop talking and put it on my bill.   Life’s too short, nobody wants to listen to that..  Plus not being demanding in other creative ways like I see so many guys do.. anyone can have an off-day, time of the month, argument with co-worker, whatever.

* Being polite, especially when speaking Thai.  You can never be too polite in Thailand, there’s only cred in using slangy terms if you get it spot on, which is unlikely.  Avoid the horrible bar-Tinglish.  Or when speaking English, you can speak English in such a way that almost nobody will understand you (people from the British isles especially suffer from that) or you can speak clearly, and simply, and almost everyone will understand.

* Making compliments and showing appreciation, about anything, no matter how small.  Find something to be nice about.  Avoid complaining, or even what many Europeans don’t call complaining but ‘observing’ or ‘asking’ but still with a critical slant on it that can be perceived as negative.  But all small talk is fine, about her kids, her parents, her life, her home town.. inevitably you learn a lot that way, I know I did.

* Being honest.  Admittedly this is not the first thing that comes to mind when you hear 'Thainess', but really nobody should ever have a reason to lie about anything in bars.  Don't hide you're married or in a relationship. Mostly because it doesn't matter.  Don't brag, it's not needed. Perhaps one of the best things about bars is that you can really be yourself; it's always good enough.

On 8/8/2017 at 5:33 PM, sanemax said:

 You pay to have sex with these people and they will have sex with anyone who will pay .

  All chivalry is out the window .

You have a very limited perception of what a bar is.  

And with that you managed to miss THE MAIN THING that makes nightlife in Thailand different.  What you describe is exactly what you'd do in a window in Amsterdam and the like.  

Thank God that Thailand isn't that.  If it was then -much like you- I wouldn't bother.

On 8/8/2017 at 9:08 PM, huli said:

For one thing I am wondering how others deal with agressive ladyboys. I only want to talk and hopefully flirt a bit with real women. What do you guys do about LB?

 

And I could use some pointers on how to avoid getting ganged up on too much by female BG. I do not know how to say no and I get kinda mobbed. Sound familiar guys?

 

I have been looking for a steady bar for over a year. I have time and money and I like to be generous. I like to hear their stories and about their lives. Where I come from there are no such thing as welcoming bars with bar girls to sit and talk with like we have here in CM. 

Very few bars have ladyboys at all, and among the handful that do most are reasonably well behaved, with possibly one or two exceptions.  So I would personally just skip those bars, much like skipping bars with overly aggressive people of any other gender.

But on the topic of getting ganged up on (by anyone), there really is no problem in saying no.  Take out your phone and tell them you need to write some e-mails if you must.  Or tell them you're waiting for your wife who's shopping around the corner.  (Although personally I don't like lying, also because there's no need to lie about anything in a bar.  You'll get to that point. ) 

And then finally, ignoring girls is so much easier and more natural when you're not by yourself but have a friend (or just anyone) to talk to.  I do notice that when going to bars where people don't know me, like when in Bangkok or Pattaya:  if you're by yourself then really what are you going to do.. you could say 'no' but that telegraphs to the entire bar that you're a tightwad or otherwise not up for playing ball, which is also not quite what you want.   I know I spend a LOT less money in Bangkok bars when I'm with one or several friends.  When on your own it's really best to just buy a drink for someone.  Don't get rushed into it, but really that's just how the business model works, and part of the cost of the experience. 

(The above will inevitably trigger people to tell you to just 'grow a pair', 'just say no' or wonder why you're even care about a prostitute's feelings after rejecting her.   Thank you, we've heard it before. Also in this topic. )

22 hours ago, LolaS said:

but he is married

Welcome to Thailand. <3

Thais do regularly get a sneak preview of how well roundabouts work, typically when an intersection is closed for any reason (such as the construction of a tunnel or flyover) and traffic being guided around, effectively creating a big roundabout.

THen the tunnel or flyover opens to much fanfare and... ... .. and... .. and traffic is worse than before the fancy tunnel when it just flowed around it, safely and quickly. 

The wait is for someone to notice.. 

So where is the video?   Or doesn't that matter anymore and we'll just rant a bit as usual without reading/watching?

It is indeed scary stuff that you can have a very nasty reaction to, for frankly very little benefit/pleasure. 

And then when people drive cars it's even more scary.   (Assuming they can find their car)

53 minutes ago, WhizBang said:

I guess that human trafficking must be the latest buzz word.

 

The fact is that because a person elects to work in the sex industry, it does not constitute human trafficking.  That also applies to underage workers, if they are working of their own free will.  Human trafficking really only applies if someone is forced to do something against their will, and that applies regardless of the persons age.

 

I have known (not in the biblical sense) underage sex workers, who most definitely were working of their own free will.

Yes.. I find 'Trafficking' a really confusing concept..  It implies movement, but yet for none of the government or NGO papers I read this is a requirement.   It's really, really weird.   Why can't we use words that mean what people understand they mean.

Other than that, when it comes to underage people, the concept is that they're not yet capable of making these decisions so the concept of free will does not apply;  in effect they have the right to be protected from their own choices, not have those choices exploited.  

We can debate if that makes sense for every 17 year old, and that doing a raid and 'rescuing' her to be put in some NGO or government facility is in her best interest.   (IMHO: in some cases yes, in other cases no.)

9 hours ago, Adbro1 said:

 

I remember toying with the idea of arguing over the bar bill but if you're too drunk remember exactly what drinks you bought you're in no position to argue(in my opinion).

Yes, very much so.   In fact I've learned to just trust the cashier in the handful of bars I visit, all of them are good people and all of them are a lot more qualified to be counting drinks and adding stuff up than I am come midnight or so.. 

Actually I get charged less a lot more often than charged more;  not usually the cashier's fault, but the person making my drink not adequately informing her to write another bill.  I always tell them if I notice. 

Oh an another thing: when I don't have enough money to pay the bill and I leave it at  the bar, I always sign it on the back regardless if the bar asks me to do so or not. And then I take a picture of it too, because there's no way I remember in the morning.   It really helps a lot when someone informs you of an old bill when your signature and a short note you wrote is on the back. 

23 minutes ago, huli said:

A couple of weeks back I went to see Lek and her women-folk at 69 bar in the boxing stadium on Loy Kroh. I have known Lek for years. Just wanted to blow some money having fun for a while.  Most of the girls are from Chiang Rai these days. Lek suggested I chat with Mimi since my favorite wasnt there. That was fine, and Mimi did ask me to buy 2 of her hard-up gal friends a drink , with explanations that they were Particularly deserving. Ha ha......all was well....then a particular ladyboy I saw the time before wanted one and I declined. I mean, I want to have fun with girls. But he just stood there staring at me, the other three started calling him sister, and I folded, OK OK.

Then this really young woman not a bargirl, or more probably a bg wanna be maybe? Appeared and she was really interesting. So I had 5 patrons, and once I got started I bought all of them 3 drinks. Plus mine. It ran me 2 grand, but I think Lek did give me a discount. They really only asked me for 4 drinks total, and I offered the rest,  got to admit.

As Winnie says, its best not to take things too seriously.....

Yes.. although my tolerance for an aggressive stance (staring or whatevs) isn't great.   Excellent way of making me get the bill and clearing out. :)    

And then vowing not to return..  But then as much as one week later realizing: "Wait.. this is Chiang Mai.. how many decent bars are there really.."  and then go back anyway, likely find the same person non-drunk and sorting it out really amicably. 

That happened once or twice the last year or so.

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If they did take 20 every time, I'd not be complaining.

I'm fairly confident that you'd manage to find something else to complain about.  :)

On 8/6/2017 at 9:03 AM, mogandave said:

I think it's nice that so many of the guys here go them when their wives go visit their old coworkers.

 

I'm not sure that's English..  I'd reply but I'm not completely sure what you mean.

I like it a lot.    Actually I like anything in Bangkok that isn't dilapidated gray concrete, or just that someone cared about what public space looks like. 

There's hope.

5 hours ago, tonray said:

Skype is free as long as you call between devices with Skype installed using VOIP. Only if you want to call land-line or cell numbers would you need to pay. 

.. and that's very cheap, to the US. 

5 hours ago, flare said:

Try 006, which is cheap and has a stable, clear signal (for me, using Skype or anything computer-related to talk to my mom in the States is an impossibility as she can't deal with a computer- I'm sure it's different with your siblings).

She only needs to know how to use a phone.  Because you'd be calling the regular phone number via Skype.

On the plus side, the incredible effort police put into checkpoints makes it easier to sell trips and tours to tourists.  Like you have a group of 4 people who want to go to Doi Suthep.. rent two bikes, 100 Baht fuel and 2 x 500 Baht fine, total cost is then 1500 Baht.  Or they could rent a car + driver for 1000 Baht, and be a lot safer in the process. 

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

Ok, so you do take your wife to a girly bar and buy drinks for the working girls.  However I maintain that is not usual.  We could try to take a poll of TV members to find out.

 

I've done it just last week.  Or the Mrs. actually buying a drink for one of the staff.   But I would agree that it's not usual.  

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

I felt that called for a reply.  Your use of the word "perhaps" does not change the fact that you grossly misrepresented my earlier post.  I am certain that if I posted an insulting speculation about the kind of man you are, qualified with the word "perhaps", you would reply quite angrily.

No need for the word perhaps I think.    The guy has a strangely combative discussion style.

On 8/4/2017 at 1:19 PM, sanemax said:

Its written in both Thai and English on the side of the red cars : 30 Baht

Nope.  

You didn't actually read the Thai, right..  It merely states that the MAXIMUM fare is 30 Baht per person.  

(Clearly the number of people travelling also has an impact.. a single person on a long trip could end up paying 30, but a group of 4 for a fairly standard trip in town.. no way that's 120 Baht total. )

You could also book a car and driver.  That will also allow you to stop along the way at some nice / interesting places.  (Or just rent a car and drive yourself of course.)   Car and driver will be something like 3500 Baht including fuel.

22 hours ago, huli said:

I like to buy drinks for the bargirls. Either go back to see the same one or go in blind.    Ideally we talk for maybe 2 hours, have 3-4 drinks, then I give her 100 baht tip. However, I often get rather mobbed by the other poor desperate girls in the bar, and then next time I have to find a new bar because I am known to be a soft touch and they will mob me every time. I also want the girl to at least flirt a little, if she is cold and distant I wont go back to her next time. 

Whenever I go to a new bar I grab a girl on the way in just half hazardly, and buy her a drink right away. I dont mind buying a drink for her quote sister later on.

The Loy Kroh and boxing area women are not making any money and are desperate these days. Many evenings they dont make anything, not even food money. I enjoy meeting them and helping them a bit with drinks and tip. Seems like a win-win to me.

I'm very similar, except I wouldn't buy a drink on the way in.  Would like one who's fun, sane and entertaining to talk to.  

Then again as the night goes on I'm getting less critical and the first word out of my mouth when someone approaches is 'Drink?' ?

11 hours ago, Adbro1 said:

So,do you guys think its a good idea to ring the bell or not? 

 

Sometimes.   Like when you're a little early, there are two or three girls in total, you order a drink that requires one of them to get on her bike to go buy it at 7-Eleven and JUST as she steps out you vigorously ring the bell.  Then say 'Ah sorry, you already left' when she turns around with a perplexed look on her face. :)

And then everyone gets a drink in the end of course.   But whiskey, tequila or beer only.   And no 'Tequila Rose' BS either. :)   Unless there's a legitimate excuse such as being pregnant.  ("Are you pregnant?   Oh.  Would you like to get pregnant?  Special price for you..?")

It's best not to take things too seriously. 

On 7/29/2017 at 7:58 AM, Bill97 said:

I always buy drinks for all the lady's I find in bars. Really not a big deal as there are so few true lady's around, it is always a pleasure to encounter them.

Yes.. plus it's kind of how the system works.   If you appreciate it then you got to pay into it now and then.

On 7/30/2017 at 10:10 AM, Loaded said:

Everyone posting knows more than everyone else lol.

It's amazing how much traction this topic got.. I thought almost everyone on Thaivisa had died, but it appears that's premature.

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Rain can be falling on one part of C M and not on another.

Yes, but not when you truly have a tropical depression coming through.  Then it rains all day, everywhere.

They were expecting a tropical depression to come through, but in the end it was relatively typical rainy season weather: mostly sunny, some clouds and an afternoon or evening shower on some days.

7 hours ago, jonwilly said:

My mate who is visiting was told there was NO Official ban, but many places refused to serve as a mark of respect to New Head of State as they would have done for his father.

 

john

LOL, right.