ourmaninbangers

Oh no !

Not another source mentioning that Heroin is bad for you !

. . . their own prolonged death sentences.

Heroin addiction is its own death sentence. I'm not making a moral statement. I lost a loved one to it.

very sorry to hear that Sir

may he RIP

Godbless

X

...

how come so many top medical experts tell me in hushed voice ' actually it will do you no harm so long sas you do not abue it..."

...

The answer is, because so few people can go through life "using" heroin (by your definition) without eventually ending up abusing it. And once you start abusing it, it is nearly impossible to stop. The success rate for recovery from addiction to heroin is very low (by success I mean cessation of all recreational opiate use, so not counting lifelong methadone maintenance).

yes, I agree, they say same, at least we're on same page here,

but what happen when they are turned away?

insist to doing, as many do,

they have no middle ground, no where to go..no one to help explain... the average time to make appointments, the average time a doctor is prepared to see...

more money is spent on trying to help the pusher's get back into society!!!!

they have the bleeding hearts liberals like me saying ' there, there..."

would it be better if there were progames of prevention rather than cure? and this needs honesty and fact's

when , let me tell you, the vast majorty have no intention of doing this at all

and are only looking forward to using the new aquired contacts, skills they just leant in jail to commit more crime's

back to victim's,their use become abuse, because they are not given any info on how to minimize, the tool's to do so

I would take some time and show them the horror's of some poor man going through cold turkey hel_l and say

' this is what can, and very often does happen... do you wish to risk this? why are you doing this? I want to help and understand you...if you insist after seeing this please ( depending upon what) .... do this"

I suppose you all think I would say " oh, well, listen I know so many who take it and its no problemo... go ahead, here is how and where to take... you will be okay..."

you must be <deleted> joking- just because I like truth, facts, does not mean I am blind to danger's, nor would I use to the manipulation's

and do you think this policy of basicly telling lie's is good?

I do not, I think this has become counterproductive as it has made the youth loss faith in people who should not hide thing's- tell true, tell all true

e.g " take heroin and die" ( the totaly failed war on drug's)

the war failed, is failing, and the answers to why secretly tell us how to deal

sol invitus

...

how come so many top medical experts tell me in hushed voice ' actually it will do you no harm so long sas you do not abue it..."

...

The answer is, because so few people can go through life "using" heroin (by your definition) without eventually ending up abusing it. And once you start abusing it, it is nearly impossible to stop. The success rate for recovery from addiction to heroin is very low (by success I mean cessation of all recreational opiate use, so not counting lifelong methadone maintenance).

This exactly the point that the majority of people are thinking. Ourmanisbonkers is using ambiguous statements, which she is claiming are coming from top medical experts. Well, I for one don't believe that they actually go along with her argument, although the get out card here is "...won't do you any harm if you don't abuse it". If your argument is correct, then please come out with research based evidednce, as you have failed to produce any so far. "Experts tell me in a hushed voice......". absolute disingenious nonsense, used to fit your very hollow, and boring agenda.

I understand that Doctors and professionals who work in this field do advocate controlled Heroin prescribing if so warranted and under very strick guidelines, but the majority do not want complaete legalization of heroin, which is what I believe that you are implying.

Evidence to back this up is here http://pb.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/29/4/123

You might like to read, Against the Legalization of Heroin, Journal article by Peter De Marneffe; Criminal Justice Ethics, Vol. 22, 2003. Rather interesting article.

I am sad to hear you say some of this making it personal again

what is my hollow and boring agenda?

to repeat what I am told?,

to report what I see?,

to do what I do ?( cannot say in case of boast accuse)

to want an improvement in this totally flailed war aginst drug's?

is this a bad agenda? Is it hollow?

maybe you are all right and I am just some stupid bitch who is misguided... I pray not

right now my heart tell's me to carry on, despite your insult's

all I see is a losing war, a rich mafia, innocent people in jail, more addict's, less proper policing

and why? many reason's... one of which is dis-information and no middle ground

I want to see centre open that tell youth the truth

yes...maybe you say it is wrong to do this, or is my truth...

in my centre I will plead the danger's and how easily use can become abuse, and how if they still inisist, to avoid this

please tell me- is this wrong?

I do not know what is disingenious, I guess an insult... and if so boring then why.. oh better not, I will be accused of the boast

and by the way, not all experts say this, only some.. some are dead against it, some say like you, I should shut up and say its all bad and will lead to death

then what happen when the truth leaks out- who is trusted now?

but nobody, and I challenge all of you to this can tell me that use of heroin in properly administed condition's/dose's will have negitve effect

I know I may seem to be playing with words to win my case

this seems to be the crux, there is no doubt that use of herion is NOT bad for you so long as not abused ,BUT the main problem is that use so easily can become abuse, and then the habit become extremely hard to deal with

once taken it is extremely hard to stop- thus the middle road

many expert tells me this, so long as regular, some, not all, say" no problem- live on"

oh, I see, you said same thing at top...

off to bed and to ask myself if I am really the one in need of help!

let us fight amoungst ourselves for a common goal, a better world,but polite please,...

"hollow" naughty boy...- do you know how much that cause's an egotistical gal like me to lose sleep? ( joke)

peace & love

XXX

Heroin addiction is its own death sentence.

So is alcohol addiction, shall we hang all the Berwery owners, all the pub owners, all the governments that benefit from the tax, all the users of Alcohol ?

Of course I'm exagerrating, yet Alcohol abuse causes so much suffering in this world, just look at all the Alcohol fuelled violence in the world, rapes assaults, kilings, the list goes on and on.....

Why is Alcohol legal ?

my goodness, someone else with an open mind...thank you

seems I am not alone

and now seems I have an agenda... yes... and if so boring, why so many response,s?

people hate the the truth

it is so sad because they are actually stoping progress when we are on the same side

in UK the government lied to it's own people when a young girl called leah betts died from what they said was XTC

now.. this is arguably the worlds leading nation in human right's, etc

and yet today they still want people to believe this is how she died

Well, took me all of 2 minutes to see the BS in that. You really like bringing this one case up over and over again, don't you ? Lets see, she died in Nov 1995, this is 2009, that makes it a little over 13 years ago. Many of the articles I've just read were written within days of her death.

Leah Betts died from "water intoxication" (drinking too much water, reducing the sodium levels in the blood, resulting in too much water being "sucked" into the brain and causing it to swell)

But why was she drinking soooo much water that night ?

Because she took an Ecstasy tablet ! That's right. ONE tablet. But she had been "educated" that if you are going to take Ecstasy, you should drink a lot of water (although it was meant to counteract the fluid loss from dancing for hours on end, not just sitting around a party).

The problem was, Ecstasy caused "Syndrome of inappropriate antidiuretic hormone" (SIADH), which prevented her from urinating and expelling the excess fluids from her body.

At the inquest it was stated that if she had only taken the Ecstasy, or only drank that much water, she would have survived. Oh yeah, from the inquest " it was revealed that she had also had several strong alcoholic drinks and had smoked cannabis along with the Ecstasy" (note that those were apparently not determined to be contributing factors though).

What next ? Are you going to tell us that Ecstasy is harmless as well, just like you tried to tell us that Heroin is harmless ?

Ecstasy:

Ecstasy can cause the body temperature to rise to dangerously high levels, and short-term effects can include anxiety, panic attacks, first-time epileptic fits and paranoia. Long-term effects are still unclear, but can include depression, personality change and memory loss.

From an "expert" on a website devoted to Ecstasy:

"Some people are badly affected by small amounts and others take a lot without problems. There is also the risk that there may be long term effects due to neuronal damage; its not yet been seen, but many researchers believe it will be."

(hmmm, just like someone else, this site has a lot of answers from "experts" and "doctors" who all prefer to remain nameless and uncredited.)

Oh yeah, Leah Betts's best friend, who took Ecstasy with her that fateful night ? Hasn't touched drugs at all ever since that night. Won't associate with anyone that takes drugs. Plans on teaching her kids the dangers of drugs in the hopes they won't go near them either.

Oh but they are all just harmless, aren't they ?

no sir, nothing taken in excess is harmless, thing taken correctly can lead to negative

again, I know many who take MDMA on regular basis with no ill signs....

I have not really tried to tell you anything, and as you can see, one brave person has posted agreeing with what happen's to be truethere are many, but sometimes we get not nice message's....

now, did you know this.... what did leah betts really take XTC? or something purported to be XTC do you know, if so how?

please send me your answer...before I answer

and why did UK government try to stop us getting true out? why did it take so long....?

if her friend will not see anyone who take drugs she must live on an island all alone, for the rest of her life... do you agree not agree?

oh, or are booze, and ciggys, and vally's not drug's??? and do they have no bad affect'?

and please tell me, if she met one of my friends who have no negative how would she know? has she some special power's?

see my point... if I was a male I would say something rude, like I have trashed another argument

chose your words carefully

this will lead to less own goals like this and maybe a way forward

again

we are all on the same side

In a sense, ourmaninbangers is right. Heroine, when taken in moderate doses, is not that bad for you. It is actually a very useful painkiller from a medical perspective, and I have also heard at least one doctor say that the only reason it is illegal (even for use in hospitals, in the US anyway) is because of its stigma as a drug of abuse.

As the article states at the end, heroine is diacetylmorphine. Once it enters the bloodstream, it is quickly converted to monoacetylmorphine, and once it crosses the blood-brain barrier, it is converted into plain old morphine. Heroine is basically just a fast way of delivering morphine to the brain.

The problem is:

• People buy it on the streets, so they don't know the purity (and thus strength) of the heroine that they are taking.
  
• They don't know what else is in the stuff they buy on the streets.
  
• They don't know how to regulate the dosage, even if they know how pure it is.
  
• They eventually end up addicted to the stuff, and spend all of their money on it, neglecting nutrition, hygiene, and safety.
  
• Some people mix heroine use with the use of other drugs or alcohol, which can increase the effects of the heroine as well as the effects of the other drugs (depending on which other drugs).
  
• They don't know if they are actually getting heroine at all. There are other synthetic narcotics that have been sold on the street as heroine, which in some cases have contained toxins from cutting corners in the synthesis, and which have caused an irreversible Parkinson-like syndrome in some cases.
  

So, if you are not getting it administered by a doctor in an environment where your vital signs are being monitored, then it is dangerous. Otherwise, no problem!

THANK YOU SO MUCH

blessed are those to speak the true, without fear...without prejudiced

because it is the true that will set us free-let us progress- we are all on the same side

from all of us in this room now

many thank's

we cannot blame them, the governments have filled their heads with lie's

Good i am glad they got that stuff of the streets ,that stuff is just pure evil.I have had many friends hooked on that <deleted> some still are .One of my friends died from od of that stuff.

You go to any town in the uk and see what smack has done to people ,Talk about big issue .I smoke weed always have done for over half my life .

But that stuff ,i would never touch, anything with ack on the end is bad be it smack or crack.

Though saying it is like E or Acid is wrong which i did take alot back in the rave days, though i did take alot more acid than i ever did e and when i say alot i mean alot, though i have not touched any of them for over 8 years now .

They dont mess you up and make you mug folks and steal from shops .Smack does though, that is if you cant get a job as a big issue seller lol.

There are a couple good points in there. I'll add to my list:

• It is illegal, and possession is a crime. Getting caught in possession will make it hard to get a job, especially if you are caught selling it, which is a felony in the US.
  
• As deon pointed out, addicts who waste all their money on the stuff often turn to crime to support their habits.
  

yes, I 100% agree.. addict's- abuse... this is not use- can we understand this

please tell me this

if taking heroin is SO bad for you, how come i have many friend's who take and function perfectly? One just had full check up- great shape

sorry, but this is fact.. so where are we....?

how come so many top medical experts tell me in hushed voice ' actually it will do you no harm so long sas you do not abue it..."

these are men and women who have gone through full training....what going on...?

am I lying, dreaming, pro taking ( I am NOT, I am prochoice, pro- truth, pro good policys that work) if I am wrong I wanna know.. I have been wrong before and most probably will be again

my friend looks in great shape to me....

I hope people do not take, but they will and nothing wlil ever top this- FACT

another fact- we are losing the drug war.. are we not

current ;policy's lack a middle ground, making abuse more likely...maybe with better polices you would see less crime due to this

those who do not abuse, and do not become addict's, of which there are so many, but not so visible ( because of the way people think here- take drugs= ruin your life, become addict, will be of no use... etc... all have a little in truth, but a total truth NO, many do not suffer at all, when done correctly- FACT!)

As I said before I tried to get a local medical expert to post here- but they are nervous, nervous of people who like you will condemn them for telling the truth..

THEY ARE SCARED TO SPEAK THE TRUE

and when this happen's in anything it leads to the negitve- and here is one of the crux of why we are losing

Oh no !

Not another source mentioning that Heroin is bad for you ! The great conspiracy raises it's head again ! Poor ourman(woman)inbangers(pattaya) must be shaking his/her head in disbelief at another example of how the vast majority of the world seems to think Heroin is bad for you. Oh why, oh why can't the voice(s) of his/her one (oops sorry, it's two now isn't it ?) experts be heard above the roar of the thousands of experts that say otherwise ?

The sad part of this story is it's only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. 7 kilos ? Probably the left-overs from a much larger shipment that they couldn't squeeze in. Hopefully, facing the death sentence (a definite likelyhood for Thai dealers), they'll offer up some bigger fish in exchange for commuted sentences. At least they'll be comforted in knowing that some people out there support their efforts to get rich by exploiting people and (in some cases) giving them their own prolonged death sentences.

shall we meet

go and talk to an expert about heroin?

there is use, and abuse

abuse of anything is bad, heroin in particular of course

not abusing it is not bad for you- this is about as established a fact as can be

I asked a doctor to post here saying this but she refused saying although this was true and everyone in the know knows this, she would be disciplined for saying this.

this is the same doctor who check's my friend who has been on smack since he was army in vietnam

perfect health...in every way.. and look's great he has good job, happy family, and there are many like him...this fact, not fiction

abuse vs use

do you understand the difference?

if not, lets meet I will help you adjust your compass

That's all I have to say

http://www.psychoactive.org.uk/heroin/risks.htm

in other words- no- you have made my point for me

you will not meet,

you do not wish to sit in a doctor's office, learn of their expertise, where they were trained, what they have done and seen, etc, etc

or meet a perfectly functional family man and see his latest health check cert ( they did a special recently at bumingrad- he is in great shape)

because you hate the the real and existing fact that many people do take heroin without any negative effect

as it just may cause you to consider that like so many things in life, we have been slightly misled

I understand why...it very easy to abuse, hence the lies and propaganda

in UK the government lied to it's own people when a young girl called leah betts died from what they said was XTC

now.. this is arguably the worlds leading nation in human right's, etc

and yet today they still want people to believe this is how she died

so, with this in mind, shall I still read the above..or shall I continue to see with my own eye's the truth

please Sir, do not believe all that you read.. the UK example illustrates this, no?

with your own eye's more can be learnt

this is a key question point...and illustrates a lot

there should be no difference, male/female/black/white/rich/poor

but there is- here it is who you know and how much money you have that count's

justice like this become counter justice

Whilst i agree with what you are saying, it is also wise to remember that we (in the most part) are guests in this country, and as such must abide by their laws etc, I am well aware that you would like to see changes to the current system, to a system that encourages rehabilitation rather than sometime harsh (sometimes OTT) sentences, this will take a long time to achieve, as i feel it would mean an almost total re-structuring of the current system. Also what gives any "Guest" in any country the right to interfere with said countries judicial system? We are often quick to judge what we consider to be archaic 3rd world legal systems, when in reality, our own countries systems fare little better.

I believe that changes will come about, albeit painfully slowly, but until then..... "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"

FF

sir

' when in rome..."

this does not really stand up,

that like the old totally wrong- if it ain't broke, do not fix it' if that were true no progress would ever be made

when in middle east and saw lady stoned ( not on dope) should we say nothing, maybe join in?

also, and this is i know will upset some people, Thailand is basically a western colony,

the west drew up most of its boarders, told it rulers how and what to do, when to do it( like the current legal system) and punished it when it was naughty( the brits bombing of Bangkok was to remind them to do what they are told is a classic example of this- why is this kept secret?, because it illustrates the power the west has over this place, most locals do not even know this- and a hel_l of alot more)

I have tried to give more examples, but have been warned not to, this is telling in itself

the west should do more, I feel it is obligated to

I do not see this argument of nation's as we are all human. When I suddenly fly over an airspace do I change, no we are all human, we are all connected, I will not go too deeply into this and my belief's.. and I cannot respect any legal system from any where which has detracted from it purpose

to me I do not see as interfere when with true heart I/we try to help,

I feel it is my obligation, maybe the judge/cop/ etc dose's because it upset's their aim

and aim so often here is not justice and fair treatment, but that old evil- money

in so many ways the real progress here in human right's has been made by western pressure

I/we have never been told we are infereing from people we visit,amnesty, or embassy staff, etc,

forget this notion of places and guest's... God... or whoever you believe in( or not) looks down and He asks all of us to help each other, His children...as best we can..

and there is no greater reward on this earth than to help a brother or sister from where-ever in their time of need

regardless of what stamp we may have in our passport!

2001 terror plot crushed in Bangkok

Jemaah Islamiyah terrorists planned to steal a plane at the Bangkok airport at Don Mueang and crash it into the Changi Airport but the plan was broken up when Thai authorities discovered key details. The key plotter revealed details of the plot to a Singapore newspaper on Wednesday.

Mohammad Hassan bin Saynudin, a native of Singapore, said he and fellow JI member Mas Selamat bin Kastari planned to hijack the plane from Bangkok and ram it into the airport, the report said. The plan was aborted when Thai authorities became aware of it, he told the Straits Times newspaper from a court lock-up in Indonesia on Tuesday.

"We wanted to do it out of anger with Singapore for being an ally of the United States for what it did in Afghanistan," said Hassan, also an alleged member of the Southeast Asia-based Islamic militant group JI. "What I was trying to do was to defend Islam and Muslims."

More from the Bangkok Post here.

now for a little truth-thai authority discovered nothing, thai authorty became aware of it.....??? oh my God...zero, they are totally incapable of dealing with this sort of thing let alone taking care of it

amongst security expert's Thailand is a joke when it comes to anything like this-look at what happened the other day- a paratrooper missed ther zone and killed a little girl ( may she RIP)

that about sum's up the abilty's of the securty force's here

the west, the true ruler of this place dealt with it and partially the reason why this sort of thing may of happened here

then, as is the norm, let the handbag army take all the credit

I just love these threads and especially all the sad sacks who get their rocks off when some poor sod gets caught with dope.

What kind of life must you have where you get pleasure in others misfortunes?

You would be much better venting your outrage at the real criminals in this world like many of the corporate criminals who are in a large part responsible for the economic meltdown that we are currently experiencing.

generally...often the hang 'em high crowd, people who love to condemn, say things on forum and not back up,insult, make personal and enjoy peoples misery, not all of course are what Freud discovered , and some other's

failure's by their own standard, sometimes called self-actualization ...

for them happiness is derived from others misfortune, because subconsciously they themselves look upon themselves as failure ( by their own standard)

what would happen if it were a Thai couple caught for the same act ?

this is a key question point...and illustrates a lot

there should be no difference, male/female/black/white/rich/poor

but there is- here it is who you know and how much money you have that count's

justice like this become counter justice

Oh no !

Not another source mentioning that Heroin is bad for you ! The great conspiracy raises it's head again ! Poor ourman(woman)inbangers(pattaya) must be shaking his/her head in disbelief at another example of how the vast majority of the world seems to think Heroin is bad for you. Oh why, oh why can't the voice(s) of his/her one (oops sorry, it's two now isn't it ?) experts be heard above the roar of the thousands of experts that say otherwise ?

The sad part of this story is it's only the tip of the proverbial iceberg. 7 kilos ? Probably the left-overs from a much larger shipment that they couldn't squeeze in. Hopefully, facing the death sentence (a definite likelyhood for Thai dealers), they'll offer up some bigger fish in exchange for commuted sentences. At least they'll be comforted in knowing that some people out there support their efforts to get rich by exploiting people and (in some cases) giving them their own prolonged death sentences.

shall we meet

go and talk to an expert about heroin?

there is use, and abuse

abuse of anything is bad, heroin in particular of course

not abusing it is not bad for you- this is about as established a fact as can be

I asked a doctor to post here saying this but she refused saying although this was true and everyone in the know knows this, she would be disciplined for saying this.

this is the same doctor who check's my friend who has been on smack since he was army in vietnam

perfect health...in every way.. and look's great he has good job, happy family, and there are many like him...this fact, not fiction

abuse vs use

do you understand the difference?

if not, lets meet I will help you adjust your compass

I'm not at all interested in trying such a stupid stunt. I just wonder with the thousands of people passing through immigration how they are able to catch the guilty ones. I imagine for every one they catch 100 get through but it's still pretty impressive when they make a catch. Since there had to be something that made them suspicious enough to x ray his shoes. I agree with those who said it was probably the body language, I also wonder how often they are tipped off.

In Australia there are so many layers to customs and immigrations procedures it is daunting. Often much of it is unseen and unheard, this is why it is so effective.

Profiling. A 19 year old teenager returning alone from a country where drugs are easily available would be an indicator for a closer look.

Behavior. People are closely watched all the way through the process from disembarking to leaving the Customs area. Anyone looking nervous, confused or acting in any manner which may be perceived to be unusual would be another indicator.

Passport Control. The officer at passport control makes several decisions at that time, he decided whether you deserve some extra attentions from customs officers at this point. Again behavior is one indicator as is length of travel, countries visited, frequency of travel, etc. From experience I already know at this point whether I am going to have to join the often lengthy queue for a customs inspection or whether I can simply walk out. There have been times where my entry card has been marked and I just know that Im going to join a queue.

Customs Hall. Dogs patrol the customs hall sniffing, customs officers watch for suspicious behavior, observations are made about how much luggage you have, how it looks packed, what you are wearing and so on.

Customs Inspection: If you have nothing to declare but still need to join the customs inspection queue then you are again watched in the queue, cameras are everywhere. Officers on the ground make observations about your demeanor. When reaching inspection your bags may be x-rayed. Your bags may be searched. Your behavior is continually monitored. All sorts of decisions are made at different levels without you even realising it.

The levels of checking and monitoring are deep and numerous. Australian Customs are very good at what they do and despite this I am sure much passes through undetected but it really is Russian Roulette if you want to break the law and try importing something illegal.

I remember getting off the plane from Bangkok and being redirected right out of the gate by Customs Officers who made every passenger form a single file queue and walk 1 foot from the other person as two sniffer dogs went up and down the queue. I watched a couple of the officers and there was as much attention being paid to peoples behavior as there was from the dog having a bit of a sniff.

However as a law abiding citizen I have nothing to fear from Australian Customs , however I am paranoid about my bags and use locks and plastic wrap to minimize the chance that something is put into my bag without my knowledge. I will say though, even being law abiding and taking measures to minimize outside interference with my luggage I often feel very much under scrutiny so any experienced traveller would know that Australia would be the last place on earth you would want to try getting something past customs.

many of my friend play a sort of game- we do everything possible to look like smuggler..bad girl, gal...etc

we wear tee-shiirts with pro-dope statements( do you know I saw someone wearing one in thai airport who looked like staff), we refuse to give any occupation,or answer some question's, we always pay for tickets in cash

we are polite, but firm.... we do not give proper address( only YMCA),

we have high times magizine in our bag's, no credit card's, I also have dual nationality's, several legal passport's which I openly show, and this sometimes look's suspect to some place's

because I ahte flying so much I often have something t ease me through, which akes me look like a real stoner

do you know how many times I have been to Oz? and everywhere else... and how many times I have been properly checked...?

the answer is never- not once, not any where....south america, SE asia, no visable source of income

please be under no illusion- ' this is why they are so efffective..." are you kidding.... ? they are not, can not.... the vast majorty sail past...

a kiwi custom person even admited this to me, and nowadays they are some of the best trained

they tell you how many they catch, do they tell you how many they do not? maybe the fact drugs are on the rise is some sign

in all these years the only serious check I had was in sweden, and even that would have still not caught a dedicated

dog's means nothing- so easy to fool, fingerprint machine- nothing.... face recognition...nothing

there are places, service's, book's companyy which instruct how to defeat,,, and its easy

it's another story we've all heard before and will hear again. blows my mind that anyone would be retarded enough to try and smuggle heroin across an international border. we all know the penalty if caught, my sympathy is pretty low for this dude. here's a thought: get a job you moron! what compels someone to mule drugs? well the answer is GREED! hope he likes sodomy. plenty of that in his well thought out future

bi-sexual actually, what is bipolar?

^5555

so, if i can ask, what do you think should be done to these people? or i guess you think something should be done to the laws right? make all drugs legal?

just curious.

anth

thanks for ask me this- wanna know the true...?I honestly do not know exactly the right way and what will work to full extent

but what I do know ,see, believe - that prisons teach criminal to be better, that huge moneys wasted, but made by corruption men who almost never get caught, and if, get out very soon,

that the police on the streets here by and large are the mafia and the good one's who have to deal with this evil have their hand's tied by political correctness in the west and here by the modus operandi,

good cop's cannot do proper job and innocent people in jail,etc,etc

I could give you the ekhart toole answer.. that would take too long

to be specific, for this young man we must first take very close look at everything..all the fact's...is he addict? was he pushed, forced,,,,bullied, although he is 19, remember he is an austalian, thus we are talking about a mere child

after this he must face some fair consequence's, he must see that he is being treated fairly, humanely, and despite that he still must make atonements

that even the" bleeding heart liberal like me" does not say " poor little thing ,off you go..." no, no, no

nothing is worse that this actually

some tightly controled community work under strict condition, curfew in secure centre

one chance and one only- break it and...it hurts me to say this... but one has a duty to the masses to save them from people who cannot be helped, and yes, I have seen some,

for violent murdere's

time to say goodbye- life, and by that mean life, not his life and out n a few year's, in a secure humane enviroment

forgive me Lord... You throw so many rotten egg's at us...I see no other way

it breaks my heart

I just love these threads and especially all the sad sacks who get their rocks off when some poor sod gets caught with dope.

What kind of life must you have where you get pleasure in others misfortunes?

You would be much better venting your outrage at the real criminals in this world like many of the corporate criminals who are in a large part responsible for the economic meltdown that we are currently experiencing.

Since when has heroin been classed as dope?

I dont take any pleasure in someones misfortune, but this aint misfortune. Its good fortune to normal law abiding citizens.Suggest you wake up and smell the coffee, or else go meet up with ourmaninbangers and comfort each other with equally far fetched tales of bleeding heart liberalism.Its a marriage made in heaven

no sir, maybe it my bad english, why do you hate me so? what have I done? ddi you try to sllep with me once, are you that man with glasses I slapped at bed supper?

misfortune.. who IT IS YOURS!

how to define?, that normal law abiding citezen will end up paying for a criminal education which costs them much more in the long run run and plays right into the mafia hand's- call that good fortune? yes, the corrupt love this

I simply would like to see policy's that work, fair and just, sensible law's and punishments prescribed

support for the police on the street by politician who know their stuff and do not care if it win's then vote's- that does not happen much both here and many place's

can you tell me which of my tale's are far fetched?

are you calling me a liar?

are you a man who will back his word's? you must have reason to say this

the is the mark, the test of someone who should be heard....very few are people of substance theseday's, they talk, and run...are you one of these's? lets see...

would you like to test me on anything?, do you just make the noise and hide on the forum, my papa taught me this..

never say anything you would not say to someones face's or bet alot of money on( hence I always say this-it makes the sheep run and hide)

I am scared to be accused of boasting, but maybe you would like some proof of the result's of my work and once again, seeing as though you are so sure I am the liar why not place a little bet- all money to charity, lets start at 10,000,000 baht- I do not expect to hear from you again, so please, keep thing civil,,,,

what have you to lose? you freely made a statement and I am sure you are someone who know's of what they talk.... and you wish for people to heed and respect your,now show us that we should listen to you and heed you by backing you word's and let us seewhat you are made off...

you will not, you cannot, you may make some cheeky answer, but do this and you will lose- you know this, so why make these silly little remarks, who in your way of thinking looks silly now? can we not work together, are we not on same side really?

lets stop this, I have spanked you enough, I love to beat you male's at your own game's...

I certainly make the mistakes sometimes and do not know all the answer's ( but I do know who and when to place bets with and to sure of my case before I do....take note of this please)

but I do know this

that there are so many in jail right now who should not be there, and who aren't who should, huge amount's of tax payer's , crime increase, etc, etc

and nothing, NOTHING will can be achieved by making things personal,infighting, going off track...and silly incorrect remarks made by anyone not prepared to back up ( my bf says other than making you look a tosser- I like watching men do that, well, some anyway!)

I have a worrying question which i hope someone can help clarify for me-

I have a long outstanding debt to a UK Bank, not big, but enough. The debt collecting agency got my number here and has now said that if i don't pay it will be passed to the courts in UK to get a court order to approach immigration here and request the cancellation of any visas i have to stay in Thailand. I work here on a non B. Is this really possible ? Needless to say, I am very worried about this!

Yes it is. They arrested then deported a German bar owner from Pattaya recently because He owed 4 Million baht to credit cards.

They are getting tough in the Uk now and they also can change unsecured debt into secured debt and take your house...even though it was initially called an unsecured loan. It's called a change order.

Yes they can get you and the Thais will co operate.

Utter drivel.

Whilst it was always the case that the deliberate accumulation of debt with the intention to permanently deprive, known in the criminal calendar as conversion, an extraditable offence, would place one in jeopardy the OP is by no means within that compass. Unsecured debt can be charged to an asset if liability is not protected but then that was always the case but realising the asset is only possible within jurisdiction and if it exists.

Your post is alarmist and misleading in the context of the OP and is accordingly of little value. Your certainty is as misplaced as your ignorance is unwelcome.

not really drivel Sir

if you are dealing with really professional criminal's who are expert at debt recovery it would be extremely easy to really mess someones life up here

I have seen this done - a man I hate so do not care to expose was the head of the FCC here, he boasted about his connection's as many do, I saw him on his knee's in tear's promising to amend,he did, he simply had no option

it was not nice, but he had been extremely naughty and I almost thought at least this got his just desert's, but I did not like that innocent had to be threatened

On the other hand, know the right people and you should be okay

they do not giving a flying fXXX as brit's say about the law... and you wanna know something else, many in the banks turn a blind eye to how the money is returned

that is their main concern

I like a spot of SM now and again, and that english crop thing is bad (good) enough with a light spanking.... Hmmmm, must make a note of this

imagine how the painful to really do this by the way.... Isn't the whole point to discourage them from doing it again? Cheap and effective. Bring on the whip / cane / cat /birch / rotan etc. Anyone know what the Thai version is called there must be one.

pain like this create's hate

this in many instance's turn's to thought's of revenge- it simply does not discourage, it also, how can I say, up's the ante

by this I mean the criminal will be more serious in dangerous way

for example in UK it was once what they give a life sentence for kidnapping violently for ransom

in Italy my calibineir( spelt wrong, Italian police) friend said they studied this and found that this led to the kidnappers simply murdering their victim's

why leave a witness when same sentance? there is no motivation to keep alive.... mafia men or simelar are on record saying this

and now the police have no witness just a dead body and how to prove who murdered ( many case's like this)

this is not exactly the same- but has some pararell's ...I hope you get my mean

as I have pointed out country's that have this punishment see an increase in the very crime's this is supposed to stop each and every year

several time's men have told me that if they had this done to them they would commit what amount's to small act's of terror against the society, one man said he would return and leave poison candy's in playground's, there are others the same sort... unfortunately it is so easy to do something like this

mostly it is just talk,

but sometimes not...many case's around the world show this

how many crime's, such as arson where we did not able to catch who did, may of done for this reason

so, not only does this not work, but by advocating this to are indirectly causing a totally innocent person to suffer

Go to any Tesco and stand by the oranges. You will see entire families of Thais eat hundreds of baht worth of fruit. Is that shoplifting? Guess you would have to pump their stomachs to get the evidence even though there are security cameras everywhere. I still remember the advice given to me four years ago when I arrived here, "Thais have to follow twenty percent of the law; whereas farangs must follow one hundred twenty percent." In other words, would a Thai couple have received the same sentence?

Toad of Toad Hall is aptly named as he lives in a fictional world though he claims he lives and works here. he's so confused he's calling them swiss now. he's really lost the plot (and that's bad for a fictional character even a ham actor like toady

we all know the reality of thai police and thai justice - just read threads on this forum.

Erm, now where did i refer to them as Swiss? I think you need to get the 'facts' right, as you so like to call them.

I have no doubt that the Thai police is corrupt, that is pretty well documented.

What I, and most other law abiding citizens are fed up of, is the continuing whines from the 'apologists' for people who have been caught red handed and from perpatrators. I guess that maybe some of these 'apologists' have never bee a victim of a crime, or have to help a victim of crime pick up the pieces. I don't really give a toss, what you think of me, or where you think I live. I live in the real world and work with real people in Thailand. I also try to be as considerate as possible to the people I meet, and not to put myself in a situation where I would find myself up shit creek without a paddle. I guess the majority of Thai Visa posters that live here and tourists that visit here, have very little trouble form the BIB apart from the odd motoring offence.

As an aside, I worked in Secure services for a number of years, so I've got plenty of first hand experience with criminals. Maybe that has made me more cynical, but law enforcement across the world has a problem with dealing with career petty criminals, who over the years rack up significant amounts of crimes, which are at significant financial and emotional cost to society.

As for Bangers statement earlier about euthanasia , that's voluntary, so no I wouldn't be a suitable candidate. I assume that he/she or whatever is now advocating execution for those that oppose her view on dealing with offending behaviour, strange coming from a staunch opponent of the death penalty.

sorry- I meant abortion, not euthanasia.. I want to drop the whole insult thing- I do not have to think... I already know where you live, and I do not care if you care.. la la la

we sound like children now, do we not?

shall we talk about about my experience with victims,criminal's... shall we ask my bf? and then we can decide if/we have some experience or

not

ever seen a young girl shot because her father supported anti government, carried out a young man with no face from terrorist bomb attack- want more?

when you have seen and done what he has he now knows that cruelty begets cruelty, that forgiveness/compassion are the only way's forward

do you know why police are having trouble?

because of stupid political correctness, and useless pointless law's that tie their hands from doing the job they should be doing, not trying to win some political points, or here- make extra cash....

law's you seem to like- law's often unfairly applied in many way's we are on the same page

horsewhipping considerate, heck! I do not want to meet you on a bad day! choose your words better if you are so considerate- what a contribution

frankly, you have again got it all wrong

I am not an apologist for bad people- nor one of those one's who defends at all cost

I only want the guilty to be found guilty, for appropriate sentences, proper policing and full support backed by sensible law to the men out on the street

anything else...mmm...

toad will never understand that. his thinking is blinkered.. if he had the experiences you described he would still have difficulty thinking it through

then he deserves the same sort of compassion,

not my sharp retort's, in a criminal act there are often many victim's....

evil breed's- it is so easy to fall victim and I cannot blame anyone who has awful experience falling into the cycle of hate and revenge

but as someone who has seen this I can tell you honestly that fighting evil with evil is not the way- when we do that, evil has won

of course we must practical and deal with situation's to safeguard people- all people, regardless of race, creed, wealth

and we can from an enlightened perspective, a fair, humane benevolent one

we may sometimes have to pick up the sword or the gun... sometimes there is simply no other way

one cannot sit down, meditate, chant on world peace whilst some hellbent crook try's to rape, steal, etc- one must act-

but we must never become the type of person who caused us to do this

or at least, do our best not to

can anyone advise what i can do

take expert legal advice before anything.

this is england , in case you forgot , the home of social services , the government run homebreaking organisation , so put your daughters interests first.

with a knife wielding ex- prostitute as a mother , and a father who married a prostitute , and an axe wielding mother in law thrown into the mix , just wait till social services hear about it ....and if it should go to court , then they will.... as will the gutter press.

you might both be considered as unfit parents.

THANKS FOR YOUR ANSWER - JUST BECAUSE I MARRIED A PROSITUTE, THAT DOESN'T MAKE ME A UNFIT PARENT. I ACTUALLY GOT CUSDOY OF MY ELDEST DAUGHTER - SO IF I WAS SO UNFIT THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED !! MY ELDEST LIVES WITH MY PARENTS AS I COULD SEE MY NEW WIFE WOULDN'T BOND WITH HER ONCE OUR DAUGHTER CAME ALONG - WHICH MY ELDEST DAUGHTER IS HAPPIER !!

SHE ONLY SEE MY WIFE WHEN I AM THERE. MY MOTHER WILL NOT ALLOW MY WIFE TO TAKE HER ANYWHERE - AND I 100% SUPPORT IT.

I HAVE MADE A WRONG CHOICE - I KNOW THAT.

I DON'T WANT MY DAUGHTER TO GO IN CARE - THATS THE LAST THING I WOULD WANT, I KNOW THATS WHY I NEED TO ACT NOW - BUT I NEEDED ADVICE WHAT TO DO ?

do not even listen to the sheep who say all bar girls are bad,

what choices do many have?

and what do the posters do to improve their lot? other than patronize them?

most have 10 tens more heart and guts than the poster's

contact me, my friends will have good solutions I am sure

take care- be strong

love

XXX

Horsewhipping........how many times do I need to explain that to some of you. I really can't be bothered.

I also do not like being the cruel to animals

so, to use a horse whip on a human is just as awful.. I like a spot of SM now and again, and that english crop thing is bad( good) enough witha light spanking

imagine how the painful to really do this

by the way- I regret comment about abortion...

and perhaps some scumbag did something really the nasty, hence your stance

if this is the case, I can understand and I should not say like this

please, do me a favor if you can , apart from forgive my rude, read eckart toole ' the power of now"

I think this could have been taken care of in the usual (corrupt) Thai way of paying a fine and paying off the store owner. The problem here is that the store owner saw $$ and got her calculator humming. "40 towsand baht dey take from me, big sack." That GIANT discrepancy between taking 2 shirts and 40,000 BHT worth is where the trouble began and ended for the 2 Swedes. The cops probably said pay 40K and you can leave. The Swedes only took 2 shirts equalling 600 BHT.

I wonder how big a sack you need to stuff 40,000 BHT worth of shirts in it? They must have been Armani (bootlegs)...

You sound as though it is OK to steal 2 shirts equalling 600 BHT. IMHO, one should not even steal 2 candy worth 6 BHT.

Thieves MUST be punish. Put them in jail.

now I tell you....

put someone like this is jail and

1- they hate society- in the end YOU pay

2- they learn and study how to become better criminal's- you are giving them a criminal education

3-the cost of keeping there is born by YOU-

now, still want them to go to jail? punish yes, teach them to be better crook's, make them hate us...no

Go to any Tesco and stand by the oranges. You will see entire families of Thais eat hundreds of baht worth of fruit. Is that shoplifting? Guess you would have to pump their stomachs to get the evidence even though there are security cameras everywhere. I still remember the advice given to me four years ago when I arrived here, "Thais have to follow twenty percent of the law; whereas farangs must follow one hundred twenty percent." In other words, would a Thai couple have received the same sentence?

Toad of Toad Hall is aptly named as he lives in a fictional world though he claims he lives and works here. he's so confused he's calling them swiss now. he's really lost the plot (and that's bad for a fictional character even a ham actor like toady

we all know the reality of thai police and thai justice - just read threads on this forum.

Erm, now where did i refer to them as Swiss? I think you need to get the 'facts' right, as you so like to call them.

I have no doubt that the Thai police is corrupt, that is pretty well documented.

What I, and most other law abiding citizens are fed up of, is the continuing whines from the 'apologists' for people who have been caught red handed and from perpatrators. I guess that maybe some of these 'apologists' have never bee a victim of a crime, or have to help a victim of crime pick up the pieces. I don't really give a toss, what you think of me, or where you think I live. I live in the real world and work with real people in Thailand. I also try to be as considerate as possible to the people I meet, and not to put myself in a situation where I would find myself up shit creek without a paddle. I guess the majority of Thai Visa posters that live here and tourists that visit here, have very little trouble form the BIB apart from the odd motoring offence.

As an aside, I worked in Secure services for a number of years, so I've got plenty of first hand experience with criminals. Maybe that has made me more cynical, but law enforcement across the world has a problem with dealing with career petty criminals, who over the years rack up significant amounts of crimes, which are at significant financial and emotional cost to society.

As for Bangers statement earlier about euthanasia , that's voluntary, so no I wouldn't be a suitable candidate. I assume that he/she or whatever is now advocating execution for those that oppose her view on dealing with offending behaviour, strange coming from a staunch opponent of the death penalty.

sorry- I meant abortion, not euthanasia.. I want to drop the whole insult thing- I do not have to think... I already know where you live, and I do not care if you care.. la la la

we sound like children now, do we not?

shall we talk about about my experience with victims,criminal's... shall we ask my bf? and then we can decide if/we have some experience or

not

ever seen a young girl shot because her father supported anti government, carried out a young man with no face from terrorist bomb attack- want more?

when you have seen and done what he has he now knows that cruelty begets cruelty, that forgiveness/compassion are the only way's forward

do you know why police are having trouble?

because of stupid political correctness, and useless pointless law's that tie their hands from doing the job they should be doing, not trying to win some political points, or here- make extra cash....

law's you seem to like- law's often unfairly applied in many way's we are on the same page

horsewhipping considerate, heck! I do not want to meet you on a bad day! choose your words better if you are so considerate- what a contribution

frankly, you have again got it all wrong

I am not an apologist for bad people- nor one of those one's who defends at all cost

I only want the guilty to be found guilty, for appropriate sentences, proper policing and full support backed by sensible law to the men out on the street

anything else...mmm...

Good, they also should be horsewhipped for good measure.

What a bunch of tools.

In Western Europe they would walk free the day after being caught.

Yes.But this is Thailand as everybody knows.

yes, have money, not even an arrest

Considering the life they are likely to have in a Thai jail the sentence does seem very harsh.

I am a great believer of using the 'Stocks' or a similar punishment for people like this - as the one who was caned for vandalism. The humiliation of public punishment with photos in the local press and maybe tv coverage as well would be sentence enough for most people and a deterrent to others.

A shame too that the shopkeeper was not punished for the allegations over 1 bag of shirts at 40,000 Baht. Must have been one hel_l of a size bag to 'shoplift'.

Stock! Where in have you seen such items in use in the last two hundred years? I wouldn't wish a Thai jail on anyone but it seems as though these guys went the whole hog and not have gotten their come uppance, it will most certainly be a life and character changing experience for them.

my friend did research in UK, the finding were along the line's of this

much better that vandalizes person face their victim- see what theynhave done, and helps put right

many said that if they were flogged, or humiliation they would take serious revenge upon society, there was mention of leaving poison candys, burning school's etc

in Malaysia Singapore they do this

each year crime increase's...what does this show

it does not, and can work