ourmaninbangers

Do you know how easy it is for a Thai national to get a new name & a new identity?

Congrats. Now if you get paid I will be impressed.

any national in truth

If I had one wish, I wish I could walk on the moon!...yup, a life long dream unfortunately will never be a reality.

So, just for the sake of fun, tell me what you would wish for if you had just one wish...

Cheers!

funny thing is most of what we wish for is possible( in accordance with natures laws)

Thais are rascist as hel_l and your dual pricing policy is just that no matter that a 'friend' gets a scholarship. Dual pricing is unfair, how would you screen the 'poor' foreigner to ensure he gets lower rates? As has been pointed out, would Thaksin's daughter need a discount? Sounds to me like you're just trying to make the most money possible despite what you say about non-profit.

I think most people are a bit racist unfortunately- that doesn't mean we have to be though

you are totally wrong , way, way wrong about trying to make the make money.... you are most welcome to come and see this friendly new club

what made you say that exactly?

check it out for yourself please and you will see how wrong you are

I understand how there a many cowboys in this city and you are entitled to your opinions

but it is a sad thing when people automatically assume this when someone is trying to do something good

there will be an opening

you are very welcome

One of my male friend's is opening self defense center in Bangkok. His specialty is the hand on/practical type of training and he has classes for women and children.

He is considered highly qualified in this area and has excellent programs.

The problem/issue is this.

He is not doing this for profit but would like not to lose money also-how does he have a fair pricing system that allows everyone to benefit.

He/we are very keen that this training is available for both locals and non-locals.

If he were to charge locals and foreigners the same fee it basically means that most local's could not afford it.

I suggested a sort of scholarship program where the fee is waived for earnest locals and also foreigner's .

But mainly local's.

I suppose this just my way of being able to adjust a fee based on race!

As I two sets of mixed parents from different European and eastern heritage I can hardly be called a racist, but I am wondering about my idea.

What does TV members think? is this a racist policy, any other idea's of how to deal with this issue please?

thanks

You say your friend (or you) is not doing this for profit, meaning he would be happy just to break even.

So while this out of the goodness of the heart training is going on, how does he gain income in Thailand for the cost of living expenses, Visa etc?

And the answer to the question, what to charge according to race, than if profit is not involved, make membership fees the same for all, perhaps have seperate price tariffs for children & adults.

This is easy because it only requires a cheap empty room for these activities and the skills of the trainer.

my friend is semi retired,visa/money are not issue's

all he really does not want to do is lose- he neither wants/nor need's to make the profit's

he is very firm and clear about this, and this is major plus I think

however, the gym fee is not just a cheap room because it central situation near soi 11,

it costs apx 35'000 per month I think

and the guest instructors need to make a living and they will form the majority of the scheduled classes

( there will be savate, JKD,Amok! wrestling, krav-maga,systema, women self defence regularly)

good teacher's are not that cheap really,some of the above is taught by leading experts

one chap here charges 2000bht per hour

he will teach his stuff either for free or just ask donation's- he is undecided about this

one of the art he leanrt taught him a very good sort of ethic

that is to try and provide this sort of thing to people who need it/may need it, and do not deny on basis of their financial

thanks for ideas

I personally think that any dual pricing despite race or 'who is richer or poorer' is still discriminating, no matter what angle you look at it with...

Just set ONE price

Make it VALUE for money and dont discriminate or even consider who is richer or poor, has no arms, no legs, no brains etc.

Make it a low price for all - and set a GOOD example to your fellow Thais and peers

Then offer a kick ass service and really deliver!

Do this and you will do Great!

you will get double the customers, make great word of mouth, set a good example and prove you are non discriminatory to rich, poor, black, white, etc.

Personally if i was poor and i saw that i had to tell you i was poor to get the LOW price (id feel a loss of face and respect if 80% class was paying higher rates)

If the whole world offered value for money and forgot about discrimiating, or dual pricing, or trying to milk every tom for what they could afford based on their background, deficiencies, creed, eduaction etc.

Wouldnt that be good Karma for your business...

Wouldnt it be nice to exist as equal

And yes Taksins daughter was paying the same price as the guy with no shirt or shoes, why not?

EQUALITY = QUALITY

I hear what you say-and we would not overtly try to suggest one is poor

and what you say as a Marxist I agree, but I can never see that day ever coming

the man setting this up is not doing for the profits

however, things like rental, instructor fee's, all add up..he will inviting some of the very best from USA/UK/ Israel/europe, etc - that cost's

we/re struggling with this issue

right now I wish it was an ideal world

but he's doing a good thing- we'll find a way

thanks for that

I'd pay to make it go away, just like any of you guys would.

For instance, how many guys here drive whilst over the legal limit for alcohol, if you had an accident where there was a fatality and you could either go to Jail for 10 years or pay money to make it go away, what would you do ?

Yeah yeah, I know, ThaiVisa members never ever drink and drive, ever !!

But in the real world many Farangs do and if money could bring about a swift resolution to the problem, they would pay, just like a rich Thai would.

Guilty rich people in the USA can hire the top defence lawyers to get them off of convictions on a technicality and the poorer guys go to Jail.

The silence is deafening.

Totally agree with this post. Anybody who has the money/power to resolve a problem would.

John.....

not everyone- most maybe

can we put aside semantics for once

he just wants a fair system of pricing that allows everyone to train regardless of where they are from/what they are, etc

Suppose it was your son who ran down that group of people at the bus station because he lost his temper and you were also in a financial position to make the problem go away. Would you do it or would you allow the police to take him away for a life imprisonment?

I do not know ANY father, myself included, who would allow the police to take our child away for life imprisonment, if there was a way round it using money as a tool.

What I find despicable in the case you refer to is the complete lack of remorse shown by the family at the time of the accident, and the fact that the parents allowed their son to immediately drive again.

If I were in that horrible position, I would be highly embarrassed, but I would do whatever to finish the problem.

I would then leave the country, get my son the best medical help I could, and start our life over.

I believe that the person in this case should do serious jail time, but when it comes to your own child, I would admittedly become Hypocrite Number 1.

is this one of the hang 'em high crowd..mmm... but you just showed some compassion, and self honestly.. this rare from your club- but I always knew it is there,there is hope for you my dear friend

to fairly judge anyone- pass the same sentence as you would you own child and your worst enemy

One of my male friend's is opening self defense center in Bangkok. His specialty is the hand on/practical type of training and he has classes for women and children.

He is considered highly qualified in this area and has excellent programs.

The problem/issue is this.

He is not doing this for profit but would like not to lose money also-how does he have a fair pricing system that allows everyone to benefit.

He/we are very keen that this training is available for both locals and non-locals.

If he were to charge locals and foreigners the same fee it basically means that most local's could not afford it.

I suggested a sort of scholarship program where the fee is waived for earnest locals and also foreigner's .

But mainly local's.

I suppose this just my way of being able to adjust a fee based on race!

As I two sets of mixed parents from different European and eastern heritage I can hardly be called a racist, but I am wondering about my idea.

What does TV members think? is this a racist policy, any other idea's of how to deal with this issue please?

thanks

The OP sounds wetter than a herring's bathing costume.

better to be wet than dry

the positive outlook is to be cherished

On my last trip to Thailand back in April 2005. I still remember the experience to this day. I was riding in a Tuk Tuk just outside of Udonthani, the driver didn't speak a word of English (nor do I speak Thai), he had a smiling, happy, face and gave off vibes of genuine warmth and goodwill. Although we couldn't communicate by tounge we hit it off right away, I seemed to arouse his curiosity - more than likely because I'm a Farang. We were both laughing our head's off at our inability to communicate.

We stopped in a small market place where there were several other Tuk Tuk drivers outside whom he seemed to know, they all wandered over equally curious, again laughs all round. This was out in the middle of now where but I didn't feel the least bit intimidated or scared, I just don't think they'd seen too many farangs in those parts!

I bought some fruit and water. The driver then took me by the arm, through the crowds in the marketplace(who were all staring too) to a Buddist Shrine of some sort. He lit a burning candle for the both of us and motioned me to kneel down beside him. We stayed in this position for a few minutes in silence. I looked at him and he returned my glance with a genuine look of affection and compassion. I felt a lump in my throat and I fought back tears - It was an incredible moment, probably the most profound feeling of connectedness that I have ever felt with another Human Being.

I'm not entirely sure what happened that afternoon, I just thought I'd share the experience. I guess it proves what we are capable of when we dump all the crap. That Guy had "SOMETING" a lot of people could use.

I was 29 years at the time. Male, Uk

We so often get back what we give out..maybe your positive vibe caused this.

He sounds like a genuinely nice man, of which there are so many here.Years ago I was protesting a political issue. An old military type came up and was very insulting.

Calling me this and that...I was only young at the time and it surprised me.

As he walked away I saw something drop from his coat as he entered a taxi.

It was his wallet! full of cash and his home address.

As it was close to my parents house I decided to drop it in to him on my way there.You should of seen his face as I rang his bell!

" what do you want'? he demanded.

When he understood what I was doing he completely changed as though an epitome had taken place.I thought he was going to cry as he clutched at my hand he whispered ' I am sorry.."

He suddenly showed that goodness that deep down in us we all have, the same type you saw

Never one to resist my girlfriends urges, I want to help find her a Tomboy as a playfriend.

Is there a scene in Pattaya, a certain area or bar where she might be able to meet someone?

I'm not talking about paying for it, she genuinely wants a long term friend.

Thanks.

join adultfriendfinder- great investment, impossible to block when using right software's

I support your need to satify your girlfriend's "urges"

there are plently there looking for no payments, no strings fun

good luck

Funny I had bangers pegged as the kinda gurl that likes a bit of hanky panky, but I might leave someone a bit braver than me to take that job on.

You ought to be careful bangers...didnt you know most toads are poisionous....and you don't even have to inject them.I think bangers has stated alot more than her new friend with the nice new polished nicname has stated, just scroll back thru any of her 100's of threds on TV....theres some really interesting claims.

I'm not a Cane Taod.

Bangers, nothing wrong with me.

oh I know there is nothing at all wrong with you.I actually think you and mrneverdie are quite lovely.

I hope perhaps one days we can share a nice bottle of wine and put aside our difference excuse my many ignorance and see we're all the comrade's on the same side

kisses

May as well close it actually. It's drifted way off topic, and I'm sure there'll be another story along soon about another smuggler getting caught, and it will all start again.

that's true- and such a shame

but I have been learning a great deal from these thread's( from mrtoad and others recommended cites).I certainly will choose my words more carefully in futures, lest I look as though I am promoting this dangerous activity.

For that I am grateful at least

[

when you say it should be closed when another brave person has said the truth, same as I have been trying it may seem to some that the truth is being hidden big brother style

No. once again you try to twist the truth to set you own agenda. I'm still waiting for some common sense argument from you. This thread has been taking a long twist, you have chosen to ignore a number of posts over the past few days. I, and also a number of other posters, have been quite reasonable in our belifs on heroin. You, on the other hand, have chosen to prove that you are a bigger fool than most of us believed. Once you actually look at some of the stuff, that has been posted, and you actually digest it properly then you may understand, and may become a little more balanced.

As for this thread, it has gone way off slant, and should be put out of it's misery until we get an update about what is happening to the alleged drug smuggler (no big brother conspiracy), unless you have some form of paranoia.

mrtoad

what is wrong with you? Or is really me?

agenda- only seeking the truth? what agenda do you think I have exactly?

twist- what? people posted, I replied- I have no need to twist anything.I have even recommended some of those links you kindly sent me.

ignore- in one post I clearly wrote how thank to some of the stuff you have sent I have revisited my opinion's, etc and even adjusted to ensure it was not that I look like I promote

fool-well I could say lets test that and go out and meet some people, but nobody will take me up on that.Who exactly would call me a fool? I do not want to boast but I can think of a few who may argue this.

All I am saying is this-

heroin use does not have to mean heroin addiction

they are not a hopeless case

maybe use all their lives without negative affects

I agree that it is very dangerous to play with, etc, etc, all that is true, but does not change the above

this is what I honestly, with no agenda see, hear...and therefore believe

an Englishman sits with me now- he mentions the policy that you have never heard of regrading how doctors overplay the dangers of drug use and say this is the case indeed

and equates it with the lecture he had in school from the police " commit crimes= go to jail"

Sometimes,yes, all the time, in fact the vast majority of time- no.

Is a policeman going to say" we only catch 45%, and when you do this and that, we have zero chance of getting you...'?

We are infighting again when there is no need, I listen and respect what you say

like I do the gentleman here

generally...often the hang 'em high crowd, people who love to condemn, say things on forum and not back up,insult, make personal and enjoy peoples misery, not all of course are what Freud discovered , and some other's

failure's by their own standard, sometimes called self-actualization ...

for them happiness is derived from others misfortune, because subconsciously they themselves look upon themselves as failure ( by their own standard)

Yes would have to agree with that analysis.

And I would have to disagree.

Funny how it has actually been "our(whoever)inbangers" that has not been able to back up ANY of his/her claims, but in this quote, tries to make it sound otherwise.

When he/she tried claiming that there is nothing harmful about Heroin, I was able to (very easily) come up with numerous links to sites that proved otherwise.

Meanwhile, "ourman" has (1, then 2, now 1 again) person(s) that is supposed to be a doctor, but won't go public for fear of being disciplined. Wow, one anonymous alleged doctor, versus thousands and thousands and thousands.

When "ourman" tried to claim that marijuana was legal in his/her beloved Netherlands, I was again quite easily able to come up with numerous references proving otherwise. Hmmm who is backing up their references and who isn't ?

Oh, I suppose he/she means that backing up what you are saying means agreeing to ridiculous 1 million (and now 10 million) baht bets, in which they win if they can show you (one) alleged doctor that claims Heroin isn't harmful, and one alleged Vietnam vet that has been allegedly using Heroin since the war ended (over 33 years ago), but isn't an addict and supposedly has no ill effects.

That is their "back-up" to the literally millions of people and sites that show otherwise.

Yeah, I would definitely have to disagree.

Actually, heroin in itself isn't really harmful. If provided with quality products without poisonous additives and administered by someone who knows what they're doing, there will be very little physical harm.

It's the life-style that kills the unprivileged heroinist. In Denmark (among other countries) heroin addicts can visit a local clinic for their daily injections and the result is that all aspects of their lives improve significantly, - they can keep jobs and social relations as well as physical health. The real danger of being addicted to heroin is that you deal with shady characters who often don't know the purity of their own product because it's been produced in an UG lab without quality control and many a middle man wants to increase his profits by cutting it 5-10% you'll never know what you're getting nor what it has been cut with. Another effects of the illegal status of heroin (as well as many other drugs) is that the price is high and it is necessary to associate oneself with criminals, which will make thers regards you as a criminal even if the extent of your crimes is restricted to personal use.

Being an outcast from society as a heroin user, there seems to be little to lose in taking big risks to get money as well as disregarding the personal safety when you chose who to deal with.

There is no denying that heroin can be addictive if you have an affinity for it but it is an outright lie that anyone who tries will become addicted. Same as with any drug,not the least alcohol. Adiction is such a subjective term. According to AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) just having experienced memory-loss due to intoxication is enough to diagnose you as an alcoholic.

I have used heroin on occasion, many years ago I did a two-week session and then it took several years until the next occasion. Since then I've used sporadically, when offered by friends in favorable settings. The most I used was two and half years ago, that time I injected continually for about a month (to break another habit), went through the withdrawal and haven't regretted it, haven't longed for it and haven't missed it. Why? because its not my favorite high. I used it as a tool, take away all pain and cravings for my real drug of choice. On a side note, I havent gone back to my drug of choice - I do know that if I pick that up I'll be hooked right away and mess up everything.

I had the opportunity the take heroin since and i've declined. But i might do it again, but not as a habit. In fact, there are plenty of people who use heroin sporadically and there is research that points to the conclusion that you can use heroin one day (limited to two doses) a week without developing tolerance nor addiction.

reagrding the legal status of marijuana and related substances in Holland, the laws are contradictory. It is legal for coffeshops to sell, BUT the guy who supplies the coffee-shop is breakin the law.

THC is illegal in Belgium as well, however.. - the minister of justice has given explicitly forbidden police officers to apprehend or arrest people for marijuana-related offences

Regarding the opinions of "experts" you really should take it with a grain of salt. Use common sense instead of stating "this doctor said that, this propaganda told me.." et cetera.

How will you become addicted to a substance witha half-life of 3-4 hours if you use it once a week? Exactly what physical harm does pharmaceutical grade heroin cause?

The doctors will tell you (us) what they assess to be the in the best interest of public safety, not necessarily the truth. I'm studying medicine and I have several doctors in my immediate family. A common view is that most people need simple answers and guidelines, and in general it's more convenient to state "heroin leads to addiction, and eventually you will look like this aids-sick homeless junkie in Karachi" than to explain that if; quality control existed, there was always a secure supply and the price was affordable it wouldn't cause much harm.

Another aspect is the following: In Asia, heroin is cheap because there is alot around. People can afford smoking or insufflating it, thanks to the low price. If Afghanistan would be forced to seize producing/exporting, the price would sky-rocket and that would force a majority of users to start IVing as that is much more cost-efficient. Soon enough HIV would spread like a wildfire throughout Asia.

Legalize all drugs, inform properly, focus on harm-reduction and prevention. This would be a mayor finincial blow to organized crime, it would keep relatively harmless couriers and users out of jail and the money from those institutions could be used to help the poor people who have problems with addiction etc.

I feel sorry for the boy who go caught. Sure, a 19-year old is legally adult but in these days we don't really have a lot of life experience at that age. Someone gave him the opportunity to make some quick cash and he went for it. He's still a kid. Put him to work in a detox facility for a few weeks and have him watch some video-tapes of people being executed for smugling drugs and he will think twice before getting into that business again. Put him in jail - he will enter as a naive boy and come out as a hardened criminal with all the inside knowledge and connections, learning how to be an adult from whoever took him under his wings while inside.

I must have logged onto the wrong site..

I thought I was on thaivisa

the refuge of the sheep, the misinformed, the lets forgot what we have failed in ,in our life and look at those who are worse of to makes ourselves feel better, the lets obey and follow every law, and although we would never dare place a bet on anything we say, accuse of lying when they dare to say something different

lets never question any professional because they all must be right all the time

ACTUALLY HEROIN IN ITSELF IS NOT REALLY HARMFUL- this is the truth, they hate this....

oh dear, the minority who seen to know the truth are on the rise

prepare yourself for a tirade , it is fun amusing, but sometimes sad

THANK YOU

whats sad is that people. especially those that believe that they know it all - are so reluctant to think for themselves and have to resort to worn out slogans.

I will have much more to say on this topic, mymanwhereveryouare. Right now, I gotta run to school.

hope you learn something in school today

I think we never stop learning- I certainly do not know it all, only that one should never stop listening/learning/questioning

and thanks for the cheers- only 3?

I'm not at all interested in trying such a stupid stunt. I just wonder with the thousands of people passing through immigration how they are able to catch the guilty ones. I imagine for every one they catch 100 get through but it's still pretty impressive when they make a catch. Since there had to be something that made them suspicious enough to x ray his shoes. I agree with those who said it was probably the body language, I also wonder how often they are tipped off.

In Australia there are so many layers to customs and immigrations procedures it is daunting. Often much of it is unseen and unheard, this is why it is so effective.

Profiling. A 19 year old teenager returning alone from a country where drugs are easily available would be an indicator for a closer look.

Behavior. People are closely watched all the way through the process from disembarking to leaving the Customs area. Anyone looking nervous, confused or acting in any manner which may be perceived to be unusual would be another indicator.

Passport Control. The officer at passport control makes several decisions at that time, he decided whether you deserve some extra attentions from customs officers at this point. Again behavior is one indicator as is length of travel, countries visited, frequency of travel, etc. From experience I already know at this point whether I am going to have to join the often lengthy queue for a customs inspection or whether I can simply walk out. There have been times where my entry card has been marked and I just know that Im going to join a queue.

Customs Hall. Dogs patrol the customs hall sniffing, customs officers watch for suspicious behavior, observations are made about how much luggage you have, how it looks packed, what you are wearing and so on.

Customs Inspection: If you have nothing to declare but still need to join the customs inspection queue then you are again watched in the queue, cameras are everywhere. Officers on the ground make observations about your demeanor. When reaching inspection your bags may be x-rayed. Your bags may be searched. Your behavior is continually monitored. All sorts of decisions are made at different levels without you even realising it.

The levels of checking and monitoring are deep and numerous. Australian Customs are very good at what they do and despite this I am sure much passes through undetected but it really is Russian Roulette if you want to break the law and try importing something illegal.

I remember getting off the plane from Bangkok and being redirected right out of the gate by Customs Officers who made every passenger form a single file queue and walk 1 foot from the other person as two sniffer dogs went up and down the queue. I watched a couple of the officers and there was as much attention being paid to peoples behavior as there was from the dog having a bit of a sniff.

However as a law abiding citizen I have nothing to fear from Australian Customs , however I am paranoid about my bags and use locks and plastic wrap to minimize the chance that something is put into my bag without my knowledge. I will say though, even being law abiding and taking measures to minimize outside interference with my luggage I often feel very much under scrutiny so any experienced traveller would know that Australia would be the last place on earth you would want to try getting something past customs.

I would like to as much say I whole heartily agree with most of what you are saying but on the other hand traveling as much as I have for the past 20+ years I can say (at least for the USA side) there are a lot of anal inattentive nitwits that work in the Customs and TSA areas of the airports. I could provide numerous personal examples but I wouldn't want to sidetrack this thread.

in one thread I posted of a little game we sometimes play

we try to make ourselves a much as smuggler as I/ we can

pay ticket in cash, carry pipe's, wrap's, high times magazines, no obvious income, look stoned( easy for me because I hate flying and take a beta blocker), no proper address, etc, etc

in all these year's

only one light check in Sweden

this is why I say this- the vast majority of smugglers get away with it

when you say it should be closed when another brave person has said the truth, same as I have been trying it may seem to some that the truth is being hidden big brother style

Bangers, whos chain are you trying to yank?

trying...?

I think its now gone a little beyond that now, don't you? Your posting's and the other gentleman who I quoted have proven that trying is now succeeding

I will now allow myself that horrible luxury of feeling that I have 'won"

and to 'won" simply means that the truth is getting out

I already feel far superior than you lot anyway ( a joke)

lighten up guys

its monday!

ACTUALLY HEROIN IN ITSELF IS NOT REALLY HARMFUL

Like many junkies that have died of overdoses have thought!

You keep telling yourself this BANGERS, its your life, but please don't try to fool the rest of us because whilst i might be young, I didnt come down in the last shower.

not trying nor need to fool anyone- I know people who have and who have not become junkys, or had any negatives- sorry that it does not fit into to your belief system

just quoting someone who posted here

that it all

and he seems to know his subject

did not take long for what I predicted would happen did it?

mmm ,,,, I wonder why

I posted this in another thread earlier this year. It's a true now as it was then:

"I think he's suggesting that the 'War on Drugs' has been hugely counter-productive in much the same way that Prohibition was.

An example would the use of heroin and criminality in the UK. Prior to 1971 there were approximately 5000 heroin addicts in the UK. They were registered with their GPs who were allowed to prescribe them proper medical grade heroin. They were treated as though they had an illness. They lived normal(ish) lives and were able to work and take part in society. The amount of drug-related crime in the UK was, to all intents and purposes, zero.

In 1971 Parliament passed the Misuse of Drugs Act which made it practically impossible for GPs to prescribe heroin and pushed all the previously law-abiding addicts onto the newly created black market. Once the dealers were established supplying the 5000 they then went on to generate new markets. Drug-related crimes (burglaries, muggings etc.) now constitute more than 50% of the crime committed in the UK so the 'War on Drugs' doesn't appear to have been much of a success does it?"

The "war on drugs is a nonsense", and I think that most people will agree on that. The more intersting point is the effects of heroin on people, and it is not entirely positive.

Controlled usage, I am always for, and that has been backed up in research (which I have posted). Total legislation, which Bangers has been promoting is not the answear, although she is now suggesting that any research is invalid. The new poster Thi Sta Stir has made some valid points, although once again reiterating that controlled usage is acceptable. The UK, still does have fairly flexible laws considering the use of prescribed heroin, in relation to countries such as the USA. (See previous posts from myslef, regarding evidence based research)

In the end though, the actual topic of this thread is about smuggling, and that is clearly against the law, in pretty much every country, so it's hard to feel sorry for the idiot that decided he wanted to make a quick buck.

Maybe, rather than to endure more bullshit on this thread it should be closed.

when you say it should be closed when another brave person has said the truth, same as I have been trying it may seem to some that the truth is being hidden big brother style

generally...often the hang 'em high crowd, people who love to condemn, say things on forum and not back up,insult, make personal and enjoy peoples misery, not all of course are what Freud discovered , and some other's

failure's by their own standard, sometimes called self-actualization ...

for them happiness is derived from others misfortune, because subconsciously they themselves look upon themselves as failure ( by their own standard)

Yes would have to agree with that analysis.

And I would have to disagree.

Funny how it has actually been "our(whoever)inbangers" that has not been able to back up ANY of his/her claims, but in this quote, tries to make it sound otherwise.

When he/she tried claiming that there is nothing harmful about Heroin, I was able to (very easily) come up with numerous links to sites that proved otherwise.

Meanwhile, "ourman" has (1, then 2, now 1 again) person(s) that is supposed to be a doctor, but won't go public for fear of being disciplined. Wow, one anonymous alleged doctor, versus thousands and thousands and thousands.

When "ourman" tried to claim that marijuana was legal in his/her beloved Netherlands, I was again quite easily able to come up with numerous references proving otherwise. Hmmm who is backing up their references and who isn't ?

Oh, I suppose he/she means that backing up what you are saying means agreeing to ridiculous 1 million (and now 10 million) baht bets, in which they win if they can show you (one) alleged doctor that claims Heroin isn't harmful, and one alleged Vietnam vet that has been allegedly using Heroin since the war ended (over 33 years ago), but isn't an addict and supposedly has no ill effects.

That is their "back-up" to the literally millions of people and sites that show otherwise.

Yeah, I would definitely have to disagree.

Actually, heroin in itself isn't really harmful. If provided with quality products without poisonous additives and administered by someone who knows what they're doing, there will be very little physical harm.

It's the life-style that kills the unprivileged heroinist. In Denmark (among other countries) heroin addicts can visit a local clinic for their daily injections and the result is that all aspects of their lives improve significantly, - they can keep jobs and social relations as well as physical health. The real danger of being addicted to heroin is that you deal with shady characters who often don't know the purity of their own product because it's been produced in an UG lab without quality control and many a middle man wants to increase his profits by cutting it 5-10% you'll never know what you're getting nor what it has been cut with. Another effects of the illegal status of heroin (as well as many other drugs) is that the price is high and it is necessary to associate oneself with criminals, which will make thers regards you as a criminal even if the extent of your crimes is restricted to personal use.

Being an outcast from society as a heroin user, there seems to be little to lose in taking big risks to get money as well as disregarding the personal safety when you chose who to deal with.

There is no denying that heroin can be addictive if you have an affinity for it but it is an outright lie that anyone who tries will become addicted. Same as with any drug,not the least alcohol. Adiction is such a subjective term. According to AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) just having experienced memory-loss due to intoxication is enough to diagnose you as an alcoholic.

I have used heroin on occasion, many years ago I did a two-week session and then it took several years until the next occasion. Since then I've used sporadically, when offered by friends in favorable settings. The most I used was two and half years ago, that time I injected continually for about a month (to break another habit), went through the withdrawal and haven't regretted it, haven't longed for it and haven't missed it. Why? because its not my favorite high. I used it as a tool, take away all pain and cravings for my real drug of choice. On a side note, I havent gone back to my drug of choice - I do know that if I pick that up I'll be hooked right away and mess up everything.

I had the opportunity the take heroin since and i've declined. But i might do it again, but not as a habit. In fact, there are plenty of people who use heroin sporadically and there is research that points to the conclusion that you can use heroin one day (limited to two doses) a week without developing tolerance nor addiction.

reagrding the legal status of marijuana and related substances in Holland, the laws are contradictory. It is legal for coffeshops to sell, BUT the guy who supplies the coffee-shop is breakin the law.

THC is illegal in Belgium as well, however.. - the minister of justice has given explicitly forbidden police officers to apprehend or arrest people for marijuana-related offences

Regarding the opinions of "experts" you really should take it with a grain of salt. Use common sense instead of stating "this doctor said that, this propaganda told me.." et cetera.

How will you become addicted to a substance witha half-life of 3-4 hours if you use it once a week? Exactly what physical harm does pharmaceutical grade heroin cause?

The doctors will tell you (us) what they assess to be the in the best interest of public safety, not necessarily the truth. I'm studying medicine and I have several doctors in my immediate family. A common view is that most people need simple answers and guidelines, and in general it's more convenient to state "heroin leads to addiction, and eventually you will look like this aids-sick homeless junkie in Karachi" than to explain that if; quality control existed, there was always a secure supply and the price was affordable it wouldn't cause much harm.

Another aspect is the following: In Asia, heroin is cheap because there is alot around. People can afford smoking or insufflating it, thanks to the low price. If Afghanistan would be forced to seize producing/exporting, the price would sky-rocket and that would force a majority of users to start IVing as that is much more cost-efficient. Soon enough HIV would spread like a wildfire throughout Asia.

Legalize all drugs, inform properly, focus on harm-reduction and prevention. This would be a mayor finincial blow to organized crime, it would keep relatively harmless couriers and users out of jail and the money from those institutions could be used to help the poor people who have problems with addiction etc.

I feel sorry for the boy who go caught. Sure, a 19-year old is legally adult but in these days we don't really have a lot of life experience at that age. Someone gave him the opportunity to make some quick cash and he went for it. He's still a kid. Put him to work in a detox facility for a few weeks and have him watch some video-tapes of people being executed for smugling drugs and he will think twice before getting into that business again. Put him in jail - he will enter as a naive boy and come out as a hardened criminal with all the inside knowledge and connections, learning how to be an adult from whoever took him under his wings while inside.

I must have logged onto the wrong site..

I thought I was on thaivisa

the refuge of the sheep, the misinformed, the lets forgot what we have failed in ,in our life and look at those who are worse of to makes ourselves feel better, the lets obey and follow every law, and although we would never dare place a bet on anything we say, accuse of lying when they dare to say something different

lets never question any professional because they all must be right all the time

ACTUALLY HEROIN IN ITSELF IS NOT REALLY HARMFUL- this is the truth, they hate this....

oh dear, the minority who seen to know the truth are on the rise

prepare yourself for a tirade , it is fun amusing, but sometimes sad

THANK YOU

all this nonsense is so easy to get around

they know this- so why bother?

You know, I've said that all along myself, but I can tell you they are making it much harder than before to get around for certain sites. There are a couple of political type sites that were previously easy enough to view but aren't any longer. I imagine they must be getting better at blocking and after this week there are now thousands more sites for them to practice on, but then it's something the powers to be have only themselves to blame... talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

it is truly pathetic , so typical of this joke of a country

so much money wasted upon something which is completely useless for someone who knows what they are doing

they can not block a single thing for anyone who has the know how- the know how is out there

I was blocked from another cite for posting how to dfeat all this bg brother crap

same like the fingerprint scan the Japanese brought in- just been proven to be so easy to defeat

why do they bother?

could not the money be better spent?

]

here is one for you to consider,, although did read, and understand, respect what you posted

spoke to my long term using friends who have apparently no negative affects

what they said make sense- to be honest, they all say this theory expressed of the totally here are all way off

none of them would ever submit themselves to any sort of questionnaires for reasons of negative stigma

so, all those study's of long term users could be considered unreliable for obvious

just a thought

If you give that as a reason, then I guess there is no pint in having evidence based research.

Total nonsense, and you know it. Your clutching at straws.

Sure enough. If the truth don't fit, then just ask some of your friends who (allegedly) have been using the stuff for years.

Whatever you do, don't believe the THOUSANDS of QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS that SPECIALIZE in these matters ! That would be just silly !

Tell you what "ourman", next time you get really sick, don't go to a hospital. Instead of getting a qualified examination and opinion from a professional doctor, just go to a street fortune teller. I'm sure for a small donation the fortune teller will be able to give you an opinion about your condition.

And next time you are flying, don't trust the professional, trained pilot ! Just jump into the cockpit and fly the plane yourself ! It's easy. If you don't believe me, just ask the local garbage collector. I'm sure he can give you an opinion that will suit your needs.

Passport/Visa/Work Permit expiring ? (I'm assuming you do have those and they are in proper order) No worries, just make up new ones yourself. After all, it's all about choice isn't it ?

You should be able to choose which laws to follow and which ones not to, right ? Just like with using hard-core drugs ? So why should you have to even bother with a passport or visa or work permit (which is required even if you are doing charity work) ?

Some people are special and shouldn't have to follow any laws that don't suit them, isn't that right ?

Wow. I know some people that drive when drunk. They won't fill out a survey or participate in a program either, because of the "negative stigma". But they haven't been caught, or been in an accident yet, so that must mean it's OK to drive drunk ?

Even though statistics show that drunk driving is one of the prime causes of death ? Even though more people died or are crippled as a result of drunk drivers than are killed or injured from firearms ?

Oops, I'm sorry. Those statistics were compiled by PROFESSIONALS that specialize in those matters, so they shouldn't be trusted to know anything about what they are doing.

My bad. I should know better than to trust people who are trained and educated and devote their lives to their profession. Silly me.

there is no need to be sorry- but I do accept it

your parents/education/accident/ or some other reason's must be to blame for you acting the way you do

but it good that you see and accept this as it means that there is some hope

I will answer your points

1-"allegedly" - am I being called a liar again...?you are welcome to test this as I invited you to do before, but you know I will clean you out so you do not .

2-hospidal_-already mentioned

3- pilot - " "

4-passport- best for me to say too much on this, but little tip for you..best not to assume anything

, this is the crux of a lot of what I am trying to tell you guys

5- law's- yes, I only follow those I think are fair and just and I advocate being against those that do not fit into what I feel is right- who makes them and why.. I will not go on about this

6- "special people"- its a matter of choice I think, but it would take along time to explain that

7-professionals- should and must be listen to consulted, like everyone else, but not to question them is almost as bad as not to question someone like me!

8- driving when drunk- I personally think that is a gross act of negligence , I ahve little sympathy for them

but that is such a stupid example, typical I may say...

in one you are risking others,you are desirability putting others at risk, which is inexcusable...

the others- only yourself ( so long as you do not drive when stoned-off your trolley, etc) ,it is shame that you know such people and choose to mix with them, no doubt this is why are are what you are and use such logical based arguments and are so ready to put money where your mouth is...

, I'm surprised at you( wink wink)

but its Sunday- you said sorry and I am in the mood for forgiveness

Bangers, there is a difference between a mis diagnosis, and actual research. If you had a slipped disk then this would have been clearly shown on an x-ray or an MRI scan, if the DR did not undertake that, then he is sloppy. BTW, Dr Don is very good for back problems.

The medical profession has end number of people purely devoted to undertaking research. I don't doubt for one moment that there are some papers that are not worth much, I've read some myself, but I have to say that as clinician myself, I tend to base decisions on evidence based research, rather than what a friend of a freind said - even if it sounds reasonable.

You are arguing that there is no need for research, as it is biased. I know for a fact that the moon is made of cheese, but I still need to prove if, if anyone is to take me seriously.

I'm not trying to insult you, I think you have made some valid points on some of the things, but to state that research is not valid is nonsense, and you bloody well know it.

I totally agree, but did I said research is worthless, or should just be questioned? Be questioned is what I meant only

]

here is one for you to consider,, although did read, and understand, respect what you posted

spoke to my long term using friends who have apparently no negative affects

what they said make sense- to be honest, they all say this theory expressed of the totally here are all way off

none of them would ever submit themselves to any sort of questionnaires for reasons of negative stigma

so, all those study's of long term users could be considered unreliable for obvious

just a thought

If you give that as a reason, then I guess there is no pint in having evidence based research.

Total nonsense, and you know it. Your clutching at straws.

Sure enough. If the truth don't fit, then just ask some of your friends who (allegedly) have been using the stuff for years.

Whatever you do, don't believe the THOUSANDS of QUALIFIED PROFESSIONALS that SPECIALIZE in these matters ! That would be just silly !

Tell you what "ourman", next time you get really sick, don't go to a hospital. Instead of getting a qualified examination and opinion from a professional doctor, just go to a street fortune teller. I'm sure for a small donation the fortune teller will be able to give you an opinion about your condition.

And next time you are flying, don't trust the professional, trained pilot ! Just jump into the cockpit and fly the plane yourself ! It's easy. If you don't believe me, just ask the local garbage collector. I'm sure he can give you an opinion that will suit your needs.

Passport/Visa/Work Permit expiring ? (I'm assuming you do have those and they are in proper order) No worries, just make up new ones yourself. After all, it's all about choice isn't it ?

You should be able to choose which laws to follow and which ones not to, right ? Just like with using hard-core drugs ? So why should you have to even bother with a passport or visa or work permit (which is required even if you are doing charity work) ?

Some people are special and shouldn't have to follow any laws that don't suit them, isn't that right ?

Wow. I know some people that drive when drunk. They won't fill out a survey or participate in a program either, because of the "negative stigma". But they haven't been caught, or been in an accident yet, so that must mean it's OK to drive drunk ?

Even though statistics show that drunk driving is one of the prime causes of death ? Even though more people died or are crippled as a result of drunk drivers than are killed or injured from firearms ?

Oops, I'm sorry. Those statistics were compiled by PROFESSIONALS that specialize in those matters, so they shouldn't be trusted to know anything about what they are doing.

My bad. I should know better than to trust people who are trained and educated and devote their lives to their profession. Silly me.

come on guys- all I am doing is repeating what I am told...thats it

about the hospital's, here is an example staying on some of your examples

I went to bumigrad and was told I had a slipped disk

then went to doctor Don who said nonsense and fixed me up- now fine

so, I should trust all professionals that it

My pilot friend told me of the dangers of those budget airlines.. a few months later the phucket incident ( which was pure pilot error by the way)

shall I talk about the titanic- the ship which "could not sink"

the troublele with professionals is that they are dedicated to that which they profess in- therefore biased

my USA state tropper bodygaurd went on seminars with his client where doctors were advised to prescibe medicne that people did not really want, but boasted sales

all hearsay- yes- but should I not repeat something because it cannot be proven?

please do not make fun of me/insult me for that

for your information there are some organisations that listen quite closely to what I say and seem to have found it quite useful

of maybe they are all laughing behind my back and think I am mad

mr toad, I am not clutching at anything because I have no need to- all I am doing is repeating something someone said, and it sounded like it made sense