ourmaninbangers

A Grim Long-Term Perspective on Heroin Addiction

Heroin addicts, especially those with antisocial behavior, may show a pattern of abstinence and relapse different from the pattern found in individuals dependent on other illicit drugs. These researchers investigated long-term medical and psychosocial consequences of heroin dependence and abuse in a 33-year follow-up study of 581 male, heroin-addicted, criminal offenders who were committed between 1962 and 1964 to a California compulsory-treatment program.

Participants underwent face-to-face interviews and urine toxicology screening in 1974-1975, 1985-1986, and 1996-1997, at which times 14 percent, 28 percent, and 49 percent, respectively, had died, mostly of overdose (22 percent of deaths), liver disease (15 percent), cancer (12 percent), cardiovascular disease (12 percent), and homicide, suicide, and accidents (20 percent for the latter 3 causes). At the third follow-up, 56 percent of the 242 survivors tested negative for heroin. Forty-seven percent had been abstinent for more than 5 years; this duration of abstinence was associated with a reduced risk of relapse. Of the original sample, 22 percent were abstinent by the third follow-up. Fewer than 10 percent in any year had been involved in methadone maintenance. Compared with abstinence, continued heroin use was associated with higher levels of depression, anxiety, criminal behavior, and use of alcohol and other substances, and lower employment rates.

Comment: So many participants may have had bad outcomes because of sparse participation in methadone maintenance, an effective way of preventing relapse. Also, their criminal behavior may be a marker for a more refractory disorder. More long-term use of intensive therapies, such as motivational enhancement, and newer medications, such as buprenorphine/naltrexone (which may receive FDA approval soon), could improve long-term prognoses for heroin addicts.

— S Dubovsky

Published in Journal Watch Psychiatry June 21, 2001

Citation(s):

Hser YI et al. A 33-year follow-up of narcotics addicts. Arch Gen Psychiatry 2001 May 58 503-508.

Some more researched figures regarding heroin use, we can use semantics as much as we like in respect of recreational use and miss use, but there is little evidence that suggests that Heroin enhances people's health.

here is one for you to consider,, although did read, and understand, respect what you posted

spoke to my long term using friends who have apparently no negative affects

what they said make sense- to be honest, they all say this theory expressed of the totally here are all way off

none of them would ever submit themselves to any sort of questionnaires for reasons of negative stigma

so, all those study's of long term users could be considered unreliable for obvious

just a thought

Hey Bangers,

I've been away for a week & I new you would be most entertaining during this time BUT you have really excelled this time. I can't believe that you seem to think that this guy couldnt think for himself because he was only 19, you then take it even a step further & say he probably did this because he was sexually abused as a child.... WHAT A LOAD OF HORSE#RAP! Get real.

Surely you don't live your life based on cop outs do you? The drug mule blaming the Catholic priest? The drunk driver that kills that blames the way his mother smacked him when he was a small child? You only have to sit around any court house just about anywhere to hear all the SAD STORIES !

I believe the usual canadates here have told you as it is; Jackndanny, BeauKarl, Mr Toad, FatherF, AntR1.

Thanks for being so entertaining tho Bangers....you never fail to entertain.

Hey Maigo6, Yeah I would sleep better knowing that any of the filth involved in the drug trade were being executed, poor kid my backside, I recall what I was doing when i was 19 & it was actually locking up druggies - ITS ABOUT TIME WE got fair dinkum with this, show me a child that doesn't know what he is doing when hes 19 & you are showing me an imbecile! He's not a KID, hes an ADULT! Hang him high, I say Perhaps you can explain to us why you feel so inclined to sympathies with this guy (is it just because of his age). What if he was drugged out and ran over some children in his car? What about if he bashed an old lady to death because he ran out of government funded money? Is he still a poor kid then? Come on !

oops...did I say he probably did because he was abused, or something else, or that we should look into it

and take everything into account before passing a just and fair sentence- that's exactly what I meant and thought I said this

nobody, including me with half a brain would mean that

is it horse crap to say/want this this?

for real horse crap and entertainment look at the ever growing rich mafia men, the growing prison population, the totally failed policy's- and laugh at those who think things are working

Nope, can't be bothered to listen to their nonsense.

That was always the case when we were kids - my mum would never answer the door. Nowadays, I usually tell them to p_ss off.

never , or only when a JW rang... and why be so rude to people and to something you probably know nothing about

just because they choose their unique way, it an excuse to act like an ingrate?

would you say that to a monk?

respect please- did your mother teach you that?

complete waste of time/money/energy

so typically from here- all

all this nonsense is so easy to get around

they know this- so why bother?

the one I like best is the thai embassy home page in UK

it said

" to enter the kingdom of thailand you must have a criminal conviction"!

that said it all....

there is no need to anyone to make fun when such treasures like this abound

I really want to get up early and feel fresh .. like a morning person. However i guess posting on TV at 1:30 am is not a good start..

I am trying though.. I try to get 8 hour sleep. I have cut back on alcohol consumption a lot so will have many days in a row with not even a glass of wine.

I gave up coffee and cigarettes over a year ago.

I am not eating chocolate or drinking tea before bed and I don't eat a late dinner (4pm is the last meal).

I take a vitamin or two, I don't eat red meat, im not a pot smoker and im not taking sleeping pills. (wow I sound boring huh?)

However I have always preferred nights.. but I work in the day time.. 10-7 , 11-8, 12-9 and just want to wake up at 8 or 830 and feel awake and go do some mild excercise so I dont turn into a fat bastard as Im pushing 40 now and want to be healthy... Or jut wake up early and go to bed early.. and be more productive in the day. I hate mornings! but im trying to like them and to be postive and all that ...

But if I don't have to get up I roll over. Really i could stay in bed for hours and hours.. 10 hours 12 hours no problem....

How do I change this? I read some things about sleep intertia and another disorder and some suggestions like very obvious things..

If anyone has any personal experience please let me know .. i would be most appreciative.

eat an apple- its supposed to be better than coffee and much better for you

eat only fruits with no diarys for first few hours

as these way will give you energys and diary prevents natual glusose from entering quickly

have you tried, yoga, mediatation, chi-kung ( chinese breathing technique's)

an sort of light exercise will help, so will good music's, not too much so early

next,maybe try to base your activity around thing you love and have passion for

i do think the early is the best time of the day

good luck

==================================

another really awful thing.. the other day.. hearsay, same source...

lamai bar owner gets into fight with 2 italian men.

he is beaten very badly.

now in very serious condition in hosptal,

may not survive.

possible major brain damage if he does survive.

With regards to the Bar Owner Story, this is Mar**n ( Grey Hair ) you're talking about yes ??

I've just had a Phonecall Mark from the UK saying the worst & he hasn't survived the attack & they will be turning the Machine off in a matter of hours.......

appernetly the police have cctv footage. Sad thing. I don't think the Italians ment to kill him. Not good to have a fight 2 on 1. Sometimes people go out and look for trouble and get more deeper than they expected. I feel bad for the bar owner and his family. I don't know what happened but it sounds like a silly drunken fight that happens every Saturday night but this time the Knock on the head was fatel. Sounds like man slaughter

so sorry to hear this horrible news

may he RIP

in 2000 odd years have we realy progressed at all?

last night I tried a new product from japan call katakura, or something like that

it did involves the place of a sort of small pad on the bottom of ones foot held in place by sticky tape

the box said it can suck all the toxins out of ones body using 'wood vinegar: and had won all sorts of awards in japan

it said the pad must be left for 8 hours or more and the colour would show where my body held the most toxins

in the morning it was yuky, dripping with stuff

is this for real? has anyone any info on this product, experiences, or similar

how about the new foot baths that claim Simenon

many thanks

ingrid

[

now , it is a unwritten rule that most place doctor/hospidal's tell people that use of drugs will lead to certain death

I am not pro taking,but pro- truth but it is wrong to say this , some poor fellow may come and think it is game over, no,

Source and evidence please, because I am certainly not aware of this unwritten rule. Oh of course, you can't provide a source or reference, because it's unwritten. More smoke and mirrors bangers.

I do not play such smoke and mirrors games... I am not like this

do i come across this way

honestly I am told that a doctor will not be popular if they do not say like this

that they have been told to say as many do here that drugs = certain death

not, all, but some

and as I have said before, i invite some of you to talk with me to some expert

is that not an invite to source and evidence?

what are your findings then please?

I've posted various references for you, which you have chosen to ignore, if you still haven't worked it out then you are pretty slow on the uptake. I don't need to be invited to speak with some experts, I have plenty of access to medical professionals through my work, and I have never heard of this "unwritten rule".

last night I took the time with a native English speaker also fluent in thai/dutch, etc

anyways

it took hour's but was well worth

FXXX!

....what can I say....first, thank for send that info, not just to you, but others

but also maybe time for me to eat a little pie humbly, perhaps I have been a little less than careful in my choice of words , and now shall re-evaluate, re-visit my sources, ask deeper

the last thing I want to do is look like I promote such activity, but I am told my choice of words do sometimes look this way and I am guilty of some of the things I accuse others

nothing else one say other than- I truly apologize- especially since I alwasy go on about us being on same side

and thanks for helping me get back on the right path

please do not hesitate if you see me the wander off again that path

no doubt I will, fool that am sometimes

X

Seeing as the President's #1 responsibility is to protect the citizens, and he did an admirable job of that in the post 9-11 era,

I REALLY hope that was sarcasm!!

me too- that was bellow the belt

you think he wanted that responsibility, yes, he made many mistake's

i hate much of what he did...but psssst, who hasn't

he is human being after all and we never seem to hear about all the things the yanks did good-onyl the bad

damned if they do damned if they do not

a America this, America that... the great evil....

yes, they, like the Brit's have did and will make many mistake's

but whose else nowadays is willing to stand up and stick to what it is conviction

maybe they get it wrong sometimes

but at least they try

who would rather be running the show

osama or bush, gordon brown?

A Grim Long-Term Perspective on Heroin Addiction

Heroin addicts, especially those with antisocial behavior, may show a pattern of abstinence and relapse different from the pattern found in individuals dependent on other illicit drugs. These researchers investigated long-term medical and psychosocial consequences of heroin dependence and abuse in a 33-year follow-up study of 581 male, heroin-addicted, criminal offenders who were committed between 1962 and 1964 to a California compulsory-treatment program.

Participants underwent face-to-face interviews and urine toxicology screening in 1974-1975, 1985-1986, and 1996-1997, at which times 14 percent, 28 percent, and 49 percent, respectively, had died, mostly of overdose (22 percent of deaths), liver disease (15 percent), cancer (12 percent), cardiovascular disease (12 percent), and homicide, suicide, and accidents (20 percent for the latter 3 causes). At the third follow-up, 56 percent of the 242 survivors tested negative for heroin. Forty-seven percent had been abstinent for more than 5 years; this duration of abstinence was associated with a reduced risk of relapse. Of the original sample, 22 percent were abstinent by the third follow-up. Fewer than 10 percent in any year had been involved in methadone maintenance. Compared with abstinence, continued heroin use was associated with higher levels of depression, anxiety, criminal behavior, and use of alcohol and other substances, and lower employment rates.

Comment: So many participants may have had bad outcomes because of sparse participation in methadone maintenance, an effective way of preventing relapse. Also, their criminal behavior may be a marker for a more refractory disorder. More long-term use of intensive therapies, such as motivational enhancement, and newer medications, such as buprenorphine/naltrexone (which may receive FDA approval soon), could improve long-term prognoses for heroin addicts.

— S Dubovsky

Published in Journal Watch Psychiatry June 21, 2001

Citation(s):

Hser YI et al. A 33-year follow-up of narcotics addicts. Arch Gen Psychiatry 2001 May 58 503-508.

Some more researched figures regarding heroin use, we can use semantics as much as we like in respect of recreational use and miss use, but there is little evidence that suggests that Heroin enhances people's health.

Sir

..aha..." but there is little evidence..." so there is some, it does exist outside my rants and rave;s

please send me this evidence

many thanks

[

now , it is a unwritten rule that most place doctor/hospidal's tell people that use of drugs will lead to certain death

I am not pro taking,but pro- truth but it is wrong to say this , some poor fellow may come and think it is game over, no,

Source and evidence please, because I am certainly not aware of this unwritten rule. Oh of course, you can't provide a source or reference, because it's unwritten. More smoke and mirrors bangers.

I do not play such smoke and mirrors games... I am not like this

do i come across this way

honestly I am told that a doctor will not be popular if they do not say like this

that they have been told to say as many do here that drugs = certain death

not, all, but some

and as I have said before, i invite some of you to talk with me to some expert

is that not an invite to source and evidence?

what are your findings then please?

I've posted various references for you, which you have chosen to ignore, if you still haven't worked it out then you are pretty slow on the uptake. I don't need to be invited to speak with some experts, I have plenty of access to medical professionals through my work, and I have never heard of this "unwritten rule".

thank you sincerely-to be honest, as I am often accused now it seems to have been not,,, my reading of English is far worse than my written- I did not choose to ignore anything you sent

I am grateful for that- I wanna keep an open mid as possible, and my bf does read and I like a lot of what you have kindly sent

please understand that not all have told me this,,, but quite a few, and I am really quite surprised that your finding are not same

actually it concerns me very

tell me please, when you speak to your medical expert friend's , what exactly do they say?

specifiably

1- do they most think heroin use will always lead to addiction?

2 what is best way to come off it?

3-what is best way to reduce the chance of total dependency

4- why is it that some people take without becoming addicts- or am i being lied to? This I cannot accept, because I have seen people stop without trouble's

5-have any, any at all, said anything remotely related to what I have been told is a sort of ' secret' policy to prevent people from trying it and getting hooked

thanks

Its one of the more immoral laws that im being sentenced for, but i dont want to say what. to do with some herbs that coincidentally grow wild in thailand

I will definitely ask about it being deferred, but I cant see me being able to dictate to the court when i do my sentence, i will ask

It seems i may be stopped at the airport on my return. that is something i really dont want to happen.... il ask a legal advice line for more info on this.

thanks

fly into UK via another European city

best is ireland, then take ferry

when buying your ticket use your surname as a first and second name last, try to slightly misspell

send me private message for any more little tip ( so many to deter imposition of sentences- they are so overburdened , burden them some more and they really cannot be bothered

I hope it was only puff you were in trouble's for and only personal use

Bangers, you are now encouraging people to break the law, an offering advice on how to do it. He is a convicted and sentenced criminal.

I'm guessing you are breaking forum rules.

shit,,, I sent message also asking if it was the puff, for personal and not trade only

a fine line I know

gotta be more careful

I remember the books I wanted you to read

"inside the criminal mind" and " the criminal personality" by doctor samenow ( hope it is right)

he was appointed by regan himself, but not so[popular were all his finding's

also,the biography of the man donnnie brasco and his view's on the way to handle drug's

bye

This was a bad idea to post here. I should have expected the replies.. i wanted to get answers though, outweighing frustrating likely comments suggesting a slight on my character.

thanks to those who did give me the answers without judging me

Excuse me!!!!!!

" comments suggesting a sleight on my character" You are the person telling us you have been found guilty of a criminal offence which the courts have found to be serious enough to merit a community service order. I would put it to you that that fact suggests a sleight on your character not the posters on this forum. You are a perfect example for the introduction of a law which sees your passport revoked till you comply with the order of the court.

On second thought you could always come here to smoke your " Herb " And get caught and shown what a real prison is like !

Do your time because if you dont then when you land back in the UK you will be taken straight to jail, then court then hopefully back to jail for a long time.

Have a nice day !

in theory yes, it reality no...

I will show him how, the laws against puff are silly and all silly law, and punishments should be countered

Its one of the more immoral laws that im being sentenced for, but i dont want to say what. to do with some herbs that coincidentally grow wild in thailand

I will definitely ask about it being deferred, but I cant see me being able to dictate to the court when i do my sentence, i will ask

It seems i may be stopped at the airport on my return. that is something i really dont want to happen.... il ask a legal advice line for more info on this.

thanks

fly into UK via another European city

best is ireland, then take ferry

when buying your ticket use your surname as a first and second name last, try to slightly misspell

send me private message for any more little tip ( so many to deter imposition of sentences- they are so overburdened , burden them some more and they really cannot be bothered

I hope it was only puff you were in trouble's for and only personal use

The Nation, Tue, January 13, 2009 : Last updated 15:49 hours

Ref url:- http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/01/13...al_30093113.php

Amnesty International cites 34 cases of torture in south

Bangkok - Amnesty International (AI) on Tuesday exposed at least 34 documented cases of authorities torturing Muslim insurgents in Thailand's conflictive south, four of whom died, and called on the government to clarify its legal stance on the practice.

"All the victims were Muslim, all but one were male, and 20 of them were under the age of 30; the youngest was a boy of six, the oldest 46," said the AI report titled Thailand: Torture in the Southern Counter-Insurgency, based on testimony compiled between mid-2007 and mid-2008.

Thailand has been waging a counterinsurgency campaign in the deep South, comprising the provinces Narathiwat, Pattani, Yala and parts of Songkhla, since January 4, 2004, when a group of Muslim militants raided an army depot in the region, stealing more than 300 weapons and killing four soldiers.

The incident led to a series of government crackdowns on the region's long-simmering separatist movement that further alienated the local population from Thailand's Bangkok-based governments.

The majority of people in the deep south, once known as the independent Islamic sultanate of Pattani, have a long history of alienation from predominantly Buddhist Thailand.

Although the region was conquered by Bangkok about 200 years ago, it has never wholly submitted to Thai rule.

Over the past five years the intensified separatist struggle has led to at least 3,500 deaths, with much of the violence perpetrated by the separatists.

"The insurgents in southern Thailand have engaged in brutal acts, but nothing justifies the security forces reliance on torture," said Donna Guest, deputy director of AI's Asia-Pacific programme.

In late 2005, former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra placed the region under emergency decree, giving authorities immunity from prosecution while conducting official duties.

The region with a population of about 2 million, 80 per cent of whom are Muslim, remains under emergency decree.

Amnesty International called on new Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to lift the decree or at least remove the immunity clause for security personnel.

"The best way to tackle torture is to tackle the issue of immunity," said Guest. "Unless alleged perpetrators are brought to justice for torture, there will be no change to the behaviour."

Thailand prohibits torture under Article 32 in its constitution, and the country has ratified the United Nations Convention Against Torture, providing legal grounds to prosecute perpetrators even if they are provided immunity under the emergency decree.

"What we're pointing out is this inconsistency," said Benjamin Zawacki, the main researcher of the report.

"(The) emergency decree seems to, not explicitly allow torture, but provides conditions under which it can be facilitated, go undetected in the short term and prosecuted in the long term," Zawacki said.

Besides granting authorities immunity, the decree also allows security personnel to detain suspects without charges for up to 30 days.

Amnesty International also recommended the new Thai government close all detention centres in the south - of which it located at least 21 - and allow detainees to receive visits from relatives, lawyers and medical personnel.//dpa

Unquote

marshbags

sadly- the tip of the iceberg

thanks fort his info

just stop what...?

Stop defending a dangerous activity.

so, in one of my friend center's someone comes in and say " I take smack"

do we the advice that they are a lost cause? kick them out, book the coffin

that they are now a "junkie"

a really demaning term

that is really not something I agree, should I tell them

that there is no hope that they, if not already will automatically become f-ed

No. How on earth did you interpret what I wrote to mean that? Now you are just trying to twist my argument into something that it is not. At this point I am convinced that you will say anything (true or not) to try to support your argument. I therefore can not take much of what you say seriously.

surely Sir, for all "practical purpose's" we should look a very closely at this person's

for example, what cause's them to take

how much? what are the best way's to prevent damage

Yes, it may be useful to take a look at a person's specific case, if it is different in some significant way from all other people in the world. A decision that should be made by doctors, not you and me. I don't know how you take this and conclude that heroin should be allowed for recreational use.

Recreational heroin use is clearly dangerous, but if somehow all of your friends represent some tiny fraction of the human race for whom recreational heroin use is harmless (highly unlikely), how on Earth can you conclude that it is safe for the population in general?

Here is an analogy: There are a small number of people who have been shown to be immune to AIDS (not immune to HIV infection, but their HIV infections don't progress to AIDS). Would you take this information and suggest that we stop educating the population on safe sex practices, just because this small percentage of the population are not at risk of developing AIDS? Of course not. That would be ridiculous.

You might say that this analogy doesn't hold up, because those people are still capable of spreading HIV infection to others who are not resistant to the virus, and are therefore still a risk to other people. Well, I would say that your friends who use heroin are a risk to other people if they are encouraging others to use it also. They seem to have convinced you that it is harmless, and it must be pretty good stuff, if one of them has been doing it since his time in the Vietnam war. So if your friends have their addictions under control (they are addicted, make no mistake about it), can you be assured that everyone else who they spread their ideas to and share their heroin with won't end up ruining their lives after becoming addicted to heroin? After all, if society says its harmless, why not do it?

Ok, I'll humor you for a moment and suppose that recreational heroin use is harmless to a small number of people. Even if it is harmless to those few, it is unnecessary. Why would anyone needlessly addict themselves to a drug, burdening themselves with a lifelong need to supply themselves with it, and building up a tolerance to it, making it less effective if there were a medical need to use opiates? (There is cross-tolerance between all opiates, FYI.) And how would a person know if they are one of the lucky few for whom it is "harmless," until they have tried it a few times? Perhaps enough times to get a "normal" person addicted, and then it's too late for the majority of the people who try it.

automatically prescribing methadone is not always the right road, in fact I think sometimes it truly is the bad road

you guy's seem to mix my wanting to tell people that one does not automatically ruin their lives and there are way's out and hope, and damage limitation equates to- come on, lets all try the needle , it is not that bad.." FXXX that, my English is not that the bad is it

I strongly object to the lost cause theory and to close the door on someone wanting a middle road

but if you think I somehow promote because I have seen people who have not messed up then either not my english, or something else

I also did not suggest prescribing methadone (nor did Mr. Toad; reread his post again if you need a reminder). I don't know why you think that. I mentioned methadone once in reference to patients who are recovering from heroin addiction, but I stated that I did not count that as being recovered. Here is my exact quote:

(by success I mean cessation of all recreational opiate use, so not counting lifelong methadone maintenance)

Your English is not all that great, but I am not criticizing you for your English. For all I know, it may be your second language, and it is a difficult language to learn. However, if English is your first language, then you could use some work on your punctuation, and you could try splitting up your text into paragraphs. Those two improvements would make your writing a whole lot easier to read.

sorry for bad English I AM NOT DEFENDING IT! I understand that to win we must adopt new ways at the heart of which we must look at all the fact's

I say it will never stop, and so...oh I have said before many time's

sorry if I misread you....

no lie's from me- maybe wrong opinions, I will stand by anything I say- if anyone wishes to take me up on this

so far, no taker's

but thanks some nice info's

did I say it is not harmful... where...please show me where I said this without quliafication?( hope you get my mean)

You mean like your post here:

stop this utter crap that all drugs are bad

some, like herion have nothing bad in them

they prmote like ( check it out if you do not belief

people- know your subject please!

you cannot can you?

Guess I can.

point to you- my bad English- but I think you know what I mean, although my fault for not being specific enough- again, my fault

I still say that so long as not abuse it will not the negitive, know many who do not, have great live's

seems many hate this fact, call me liar, and say I will say anything to support my argument, until one or two posters say same as me and iccur same wrath

although none will come and meet anyone... funny no,

"prove yourself"- they say " show us some evidence"

"okay, come and meet"- I reply

"no, you are mad, a stalker... a man, a tranny," etc

" you lie" "okay, put as tand, meet me, lets look at these lie's.."

any reply,,,, of course not, then I am a jasper....

I cannot win with you guy's

and I am not concerned to win....winning for me is same goal as you, no?

or I am not allowed to post as it seems I am looked upon as promoting ( or maybe because sometimes I cannot figue out how to!)

and excuse for that, but I did add without qualification, did nit I.... no??? that's my clause...guess I can use that..

anyway,

if one read's what one well versed person in the English language says we have a clue to success

heroin use lead's to addiction ( I disagree)

then he concedes that this is not the case for all ( can be more own goal than that?and he is native English speaker,albeit a colony)

now, this is the key, the clue.....

WHY NOT FOR ALL? why some success, why some not

this is what we should look at

and within this I think may lead to an answer

listen, law's no law's... long sentences, etc, it will not stop, has not stopped

I do not the know what will work, I know what is not working- this! a policy of middle ground may be the answer

maybe not...

[

now , it is a unwritten rule that most place doctor/hospidal's tell people that use of drugs will lead to certain death

I am not pro taking,but pro- truth but it is wrong to say this , some poor fellow may come and think it is game over, no,

Source and evidence please, because I am certainly not aware of this unwritten rule. Oh of course, you can't provide a source or reference, because it's unwritten. More smoke and mirrors bangers.

I do not play such smoke and mirrors games... I am not like this

do i come across this way

honestly I am told that a doctor will not be popular if they do not say like this

that they have been told to say as many do here that drugs = certain death

not, all, but some

and as I have said before, i invite some of you to talk with me to some expert

is that not an invite to source and evidence?

what are your findings then please?

I'm not at all interested in trying such a stupid stunt. I just wonder with the thousands of people passing through immigration how they are able to catch the guilty ones. I imagine for every one they catch 100 get through but it's still pretty impressive when they make a catch. Since there had to be something that made them suspicious enough to x ray his shoes. I agree with those who said it was probably the body language, I also wonder how often they are tipped off.

In Australia there are so many layers to customs and immigrations procedures it is daunting. Often much of it is unseen and unheard, this is why it is so effective.

Profiling. A 19 year old teenager returning alone from a country where drugs are easily available would be an indicator for a closer look.

Behavior. People are closely watched all the way through the process from disembarking to leaving the Customs area. Anyone looking nervous, confused or acting in any manner which may be perceived to be unusual would be another indicator.

Passport Control. The officer at passport control makes several decisions at that time, he decided whether you deserve some extra attentions from customs officers at this point. Again behavior is one indicator as is length of travel, countries visited, frequency of travel, etc. From experience I already know at this point whether I am going to have to join the often lengthy queue for a customs inspection or whether I can simply walk out. There have been times where my entry card has been marked and I just know that Im going to join a queue.

Customs Hall. Dogs patrol the customs hall sniffing, customs officers watch for suspicious behavior, observations are made about how much luggage you have, how it looks packed, what you are wearing and so on.

Customs Inspection: If you have nothing to declare but still need to join the customs inspection queue then you are again watched in the queue, cameras are everywhere. Officers on the ground make observations about your demeanor. When reaching inspection your bags may be x-rayed. Your bags may be searched. Your behavior is continually monitored. All sorts of decisions are made at different levels without you even realising it.

The levels of checking and monitoring are deep and numerous. Australian Customs are very good at what they do and despite this I am sure much passes through undetected but it really is Russian Roulette if you want to break the law and try importing something illegal.

I remember getting off the plane from Bangkok and being redirected right out of the gate by Customs Officers who made every passenger form a single file queue and walk 1 foot from the other person as two sniffer dogs went up and down the queue. I watched a couple of the officers and there was as much attention being paid to peoples behavior as there was from the dog having a bit of a sniff.

However as a law abiding citizen I have nothing to fear from Australian Customs , however I am paranoid about my bags and use locks and plastic wrap to minimize the chance that something is put into my bag without my knowledge. I will say though, even being law abiding and taking measures to minimize outside interference with my luggage I often feel very much under scrutiny so any experienced traveller would know that Australia would be the last place on earth you would want to try getting something past customs.

many of my friend play a sort of game- we do everything possible to look like smuggler..bad girl, gal...etc

we wear tee-shiirts with pro-dope statements( do you know I saw someone wearing one in thai airport who looked like staff), we refuse to give any occupation,or answer some question's, we always pay for tickets in cash

we are polite, but firm.... we do not give proper address( only YMCA),

we have high times magizine in our bag's, no credit card's, I also have dual nationality's, several legal passport's which I openly show, and this sometimes look's suspect to some place's

because I ahte flying so much I often have something t ease me through, which akes me look like a real stoner

do you know how many times I have been to Oz? and everywhere else... and how many times I have been properly checked...?

the answer is never- not once, not any where....south america, SE asia, no visable source of income

please be under no illusion- ' this is why they are so efffective..." are you kidding.... ? they are not, can not.... the vast majorty sail past...

a kiwi custom person even admited this to me, and nowadays they are some of the best trained

they tell you how many they catch, do they tell you how many they do not? maybe the fact drugs are on the rise is some sign

in all these years the only serious check I had was in sweden, and even that would have still not caught a dedicated

dog's means nothing- so easy to fool, fingerprint machine- nothing.... face recognition...nothing

there are places, service's, book's companyy which instruct how to defeat,,, and its easy

Maybe customs are so good that they know you're playing a game.

Why not put some heroin in your bags next time you fly and if you do get caught, tell them it's for the doctor who said there's no harm in it.

I doubt that they are this good

and even if I said that is would not help because it is no exuse in law

for a far more accurate test without the risk of serious arrest all one need do is wipe one's bag with a substance- or blow smoke on it-

that can have the dog's going nut's, which is fun to see ( saw in KL airport) and yet nothing to find...

I am joking, kinda...the truth folk's is all this profiling,etc , the vast make it through

the cop's best frind are the really foolish/unlucky

and, guess who.... the crook's themselves ( tip off's)

by the way, apart from telling lie's like drugs= death, I am also against big brother, because big brother cannot be trusted

and can you blame me.. what happen in UK recently?

all that info available to anyone- in one, if not the world's most developed country

so, game's I shall play

Playing a pretend game isn't against any laws.

It's just a revolt against the oppressive governmental organization that has grown forth in the last 100 years. Most of you probably don't even realize that 100 years ago people didn't need a green card to emigrate to the US...

GOD BLESS YOU SIR

seeker of the light/truth..

notice nobody want's to take my bet??? they cannot

the sheep ask, why are people so scared to say.. why are you alone? nobody backing you ( yet still refuse to put up..)

as an exmaple I tell you this, it has the same sort of reason's, my gandpapa was in USA long ago, I think the late 50's

he was disgusted at a system which used blacks in army to defence their land, but had, in some state places they could not go

he was a senior member of an organisation and spoke out, afterward's some people came to him and said they too hated the way that balck's were

treated

but they were family men,teacher's, doctor's

to defend the negro was to invite the wrath of the KKK- brick's through window's, no more business

the vast majorty of people do what is right FOR THEM, not what is RIGHT

so silence prevailed until enough spoke out

now , it is a unwritten rule that most place doctor/hospidal's tell people that use of drugs will lead to certain death

I am not pro taking,but pro- truth

but it is wrong to say this , some poor fellow may come and think it is game over, no, no, no

there is still hope, and with a middle ground that hope grow's

again, many thanks

XXX

Bangers, just stop. For all practical purposes, recreational heroin use (that IS what you are talking about here) always leads to addiction. If you think otherwise, you are severely misinformed. Your friends who do heroin are telling you what you want to hear (and no doubt what they want to believe). Now tell them to try giving it up for a week. Just see if they can.

We are not telling you this to insult you. If some people have let the debate become a bit heated, just think of it as tough love. Heroin addiction is a serious social problem, and we all hope that you and your friends do not end up addicted to it. Heroin use should be restricted to pain management under a doctor's supervision, if at all. Given that we have other opiates that are nearly as good and less addictive, there isn't even really much need for it there either.

just stop what...?so, in one of my friend center's someone comes in and say " I take smack"

do we the advice that they are a lost cause? kick them out, book the coffin

that they are now a "junkie"

a really demaning term

that is really not something I agree, should I tell them

that there is no hope that they, if not already will automatically become f-ed

surely Sir, for all "practical purpose's" we should look a very closely at this person's

for example, what cause's them to take

how much? what are the best way's to prevent damage

automatically prescribing methadone is not always the right road, in fact I think sometimes it truly is the bad road

you guy's seem to mix my wanting to tell people that one does not automatically ruin their lives and there are way's out and hope, and damage limitation equates to- come on, lets all try the needle , it is not that bad.." FXXX that, my English is not that the bad is it

I strongly object to the lost cause theory and to close the door on someone wanting a middle road

but if you think I somehow promote because I have seen people who have not messed up then either not my english, or something else

what am i doing the wrong? look at what we have, insult's one man saying one thing " heroin use leads to addiction" a few minutes later he concede's that this is not always the case...

then goes on to completely trash his argue by asking me to talk to someone who has taken for over 6 months and is okay... should I whisper this...I have and do, and they are fine

should i not say this?

one man seems to say I advocate taking drugs... is my english that bad? or, like me ar ethey guilty of reading everything

by the way, who is jasper?

one of my big complain in that the crooks seem to ahve much more time than the potentil addict's

to amke a appontment they may her " come back tomorrow" tomorrow can be too late!

and they need a consul expert

and someone who will not call them junky and say " you will now be dead soon if you already take.."

that is simply not true...

am I bad for say this- today I feel down,, need a shoulder to cry on

advice please

X

actually I didn't say go talk to someone who has used for six months. I said go try it yourself for six months then come back and tell us that it is not harmful. Heroin use does lead to addiction. Ask any doctor. Also, In terms of "he concedes that this is not always the case"...I said a very small percentage who recreationally use heroin do not become addicted....so....argue the exception......whatever. In the vast majority of cases of heroin use, it ends up causing much damage. Argue that. Please do not take my words out of context.

no need to take anything out of context- you said it all, and I see you are from Canada,this is English speaking no.... no need to argue- again, you said it all.

Argue what?- no need.... I almost wanna kiss men like you

Same as me...that the majority, I know English not my first, but does that not mean, not 100%.

and hang on...in one of your posts you say the opposite.

Yes, I agree, it with you, oh, but you change...is majority is 100% or not?

I do not have to argue anything, stop feeling bad for tripping up....small percentage , majority, whatever, you have gone and contradicted yourself and I am here to tell you that a"junkie" as you so nicely put it is NOT a lost cause ( the majority means all, or 99.9%, that is not all, sometimes, oops.. oh, that actually does mean not always.. where I am, , for/against. better change that..oh dear!!!,,,,,)

Now, who do you think I am talking about when I talk of this person I know very well who took a lot longer

than 6 month's, stopped and is okay....

hey, guy's I have a good excuse for bad English, but how come all the colonials do not even know what their own word's mean.

And why do you hate me almost for saying this?

Bangers, you are clearly getting a tad sensitive , there were no insults in my post, just me putting some reading there for you. There is no reson for me to post for personal gain. I'm just putting up some stuff that opposes your view. I'm also more than aware of other articles regarding legislation of heroin and other illicit substtance, along with such policy initiatives as DTTO's, SMARS, and POU's. I agree that there does need to be more thought put into drug policy and legislation, but not total relaxation of the law, i.e complete legality.

If you actually looked at my posting, you might understand what my background actually is, rather than assume that I have a totally blinkered opinion, and no knowledge. I don't proclaim to be an expert in drug policy, rehabilitation, miss use and legislation, but I do have a little more understanding than you give me credit for, it's just you don't agree with my stance.

mrtoad

what am i doing the wrong? look at what we have, insult's one man saying one thing " heroin use leads to addiction" a few minutes later he concede's that this is not always the case...

then goes on to completely trash his argue by asking me to talk to someone who has taken for over 6 months and is okay... should I whisper this...I have and do, and they are fine

should i not say this?

one man seems to say I advocate taking drugs... is my english that bad? or, like me ar ethey guilty of reading everything

by the way, who is jasper?

one of my big complain in that the crooks seem to ahve much more time than the potentil addict's

to amke a appontment they may her " come back tomorrow" tomorrow can be too late!

and they need a consul expert

and someone who will not call them junky and say " you will now be dead soon if you already take.."

that is simply not true...

am I bad for say this- today I feel down,, need a shoulder to cry on

advice please

X

Bangers, your posts are so boring and repetitive.

Why are those doctors not comming out in public? If it's true and justified what they say, no one could punish them for doing so.

You keep saying you know people who use,...blablabla, so do many of us, but with different experiences on how they turn out. (altough you only have a few freinds who live 'normally' on it and the rest are in jail)

You keep saying that there needs to be prevention, altough there's loads of it and every school in the West has them. (speakers, posters...) How much more prevention do we need. The truth is, some people listen, some don't. Nomatter how many times you tell them.

What does me is people like you who use open forums to say that it's not harmfull, don't you think that maybe one day some young kid will say, hey she knows it, she has friends who live a normal live on heroin and she sais that doctors say that it's not harmfull,.... so I need to try that.

That could be one more kid that you might have to help in the future.

You keep telling us that we need to have an open mind, but maybe, very maybe it's you who's so focused on it, that you're the one who's not open anymore.

if so boring why reply and say so boring?

did I say it is not harmful... where...please show me where I said this without quliafication?( hope you get my mean)

you cannot can you? look what we have, misquote, insults, one man says it will lead to be an addict, a few seconds later he concedes that this is not always the case

you guy's really are a bit of a joke

and show just one kind who I have spocken to, of which there are so many who can say I do not advise against, go into detail of how easily use can become abuse.. and why best not to start

but if they do take, and insist upon doing so- I do not say its lost cause, thats all

yes, we need more prevention, the more the better

and why do they not come out? ( one poster other than me wrote of the reson why)

, ask the mod's here for one...seem's my statement have been looked upin as advocating breaking the law, all i wanted to do in one was quote some man apponted by ronald reagan

next every time i post something which seem's to answer you I cannot..maybe it is me