jayinoz

Is it true that you can only get the KP 14 form completed when your child is approx. 7 yo???

Can this not be done for a 1yo?

You've had some interesting advice, but in my opinion if the worst should happen while in Thailand, your wife WILL get custody. I would have sought a divorce long ago if I thought I had a good chance of getting custody. Remember this is my opinion, but I'm in the situation you don't want to be in.

SK, what is your situation. Mother hiding out with child? No access at all to child and paying child support. Worse still I guess is kids OS and paying big child support in Aussie or US, etc. I have a couple of mates who must send back far more than half of all they get and can bearly survive in Thai. let alone their own country.

If mother not giving access and she in Thailand you have options and access if done correctly. Mikey and others are proof of this...

This is a situation that would be very difficult to live with... In many ways I think we get a better deal to custody in Thai and child support than in our own countries.

The money I would need to pay out in Aussie is nearly 6x the Thai fees to gain access. In Aussie my X would get FREE legal representation and make up a whole bunch of lies. Result would be next to ZERO access for me and huge child maintanace payments. Aussie court system far more on the mothers side, not the childs best interests in my experience. If you have money then the court simply saids great pay more child support.

One guy spent $300,000 in court trying to gain access to child as mother was a drug addict. He lost and has lost all his life savings in the battle. Not a fair system for good fathers- IMO. We simply treated like sperm donors who only give money in my home land. I have many complaints about my home land thus why I live in thailand.

Cheers...

Legitimize at amphur is only open for children who are old enough (approx 7). Court it normally is below that age. It's the court paper that matters, not the DNA.

"What i do not get is the necessity to get a court order IF the parents are in agreement"

I see that as - it is there to protect the child. Child and mother must agree according to law. If the child does not, then it has to be confirmed, that is all. If the child is too young to be able to confirm, then it has to be confirmed (in a court). Legitimization cannot be revoked according to law, better get it right.

" Can she state she was forced into signing the agreement because of financial circumstances, etc"

How does Juvenile law work? For the best of the child. If the mother sues, then court will take the case up and if the court finds it to be in the best interest of the child to change the agreement, then they surely can (got to be a good reason though). But it works both ways, if the court doesn't find a good reason to change the agreement, then they surely won't. That's why I recommend to make sure the mother has visitation rights - that's one of the few things that a court can use as reason to change a "father has sole custody" agreement, to guarantee that mother is able to see her child.

"Sounds like a money making deal for the courts"

Not really, courts get almost nothing. Lawyers make money on it though. It is boring and unnecessary for most western fathers but the law is not entirely wrong, it tries to protect the child. There are soo many bad Thai fathers in Thailand, and many good ones too. The contrasts make Thailand interesting. But how on earth writing a law that is good to everybody.. Can't. The law supports those who needs it most.

"guessing it will be approved in court"

Legitimization first - then write whatever agreement you want.

To make sure that an agreement stands, you must be the best father you can - and have visitation rights for the mother, only after appointment is OK

Best Guarantee - Be the best father you possibly can. There comes an age when the child will say who it wants to stay with and Thai courts listen (more than western courts) to the wish of the child. It's not going to be easy, it's going to be almost impossible, to fetch the child from the mother if he screams and wants to stay with mummy.

Good Luck

Ligitization in court? The Thai courts confirming you are the father and you have certain rights I guess. I have heard others get the Por Lor 14 form from Amphur for a child far less than 7 years old.... I thought it was a necessary step in Thailand to get yourself confirmed as the father. Sounds like this is all done in court.

Even though I am on the birth certificate, DNA, Aussie documentation as the primary carer, etc. It sounds like most of this does not matter when you go to live in Thailand.

The thing that annoys me that I have read on Thai Visa, is other men being able to claim they are your child's father. Even if they been around for a short time, the mother plays the men off against each other... Heard this many times and have left many a Farang very disillusioned to his rights in regards to caring for his child.

So my purpose is to confirm I am the primary carer of my child, always, no matter whom my X gets involved with in the future. I see the complications happening when she plays me off against another Farang- which she will enjoy. I do not wish to play these games. She may even feel that she will get additional money by using other men against me. Telling them pretend stories. Went through it with my 1st wife- I cannot be bothered playing those stupid games again.

I simply want access to my son and when necessary sole custody. Some girls will try anything and play off anyone against you to get what they want. I am sure others here have experienced similar events. Not pleasant when you just trying the best you can to simply give your child the best options in life.

As Mikey saids ultimately a child gets older and can think for themself. Even if hearing not the best of things about the Father polluting their ears. I would never say a negative thing to my son about his mother. Yet she will not show the same respect. That is apart of the games they play for their benefit. Ufortunately...

It would easier if I did not give a dam about my son- yet I do. So you need to do all you can to protect your own. Even in spite of the issues with the mother.

"I contemplated getting back in her life temporarily to obtain the original birth cert and original passport. Yet she will go on a rampage if she feels she has only been used to this end. yet having his originals would be very handy- maybe something I can negoitate with her at a later date. As she will have little fear when he is a Thai citizen."

You can get new original BC and passport when you're back in Oz. Copy of BC is OK for the courts if you also do the following: You can get your copy of the BC stamped at the Australian Embassy, then you need to go to get certfied translation to Thai, then go to ministry of foreign affairs department of consular affairs and get certfied translation. That bunch of papers is good in court.

"I hope our custody agreement that will be produced in the next month will stand up in court WHEN their are hassles"

Not next month, Bangkok is 2 months waiting time for fact finding session, then probably 2 - 3 months totally before agreement that the judges sign is formally vaild. Expect 4 to 5 months from the day you file the case

Custody agreement done outside court between non-legitimized father and mother is not guaranteed to stand up in court. There has been a Supreme Court decision where one such agreement was ignored

Good Luck

Hi Mikey,

With a Por Lor 14 form from local Amphur to legit me as the father attached with DNA results to a contractual agreement should be enough i would have thought. Do you think?

Can she state she was forced into signing the agreement because of financial circumstances, etc. Thailand is meant to have freedom to produce contractual agreements. What i do not get is the necessity to get a court order IF the parents are in agreement.

Sounds like a money making deal for the courts to need to authorize anything and no lawyer will even look at a Farang for less than 60K bt. Just to get an authority.

In a perfect world- lol- I would have the outside agreement to show the court when I go for sole custody at a later date. If I get an agreement knocked up for 10K bt for her to sign attached with our DNA results and Por Lor 14 form. then i am guessing it will be approved in court.

To go to court know will only aggreviate my X and I will go through hel_l to get any time with my son. If she ignores the out of court agreement, whether in a month or year (It will happen) then i need to know that my case is solid in terms of the contract she breaks. I need her to break a contract to get an upper hand and for the court to see that she plays games for her benefit, not my son.

Thanks again Mikey.

Jay, some people here at ThaiVisa have had problems getting in and out, others not. PhuketRichard goes in and out totally without problem because there are several stamps in the childs passport showing that he normally does so. In my case when I was stopped, the passport was blank as my child is born in Thailand. I am sure that makes a big difference. I have no idea what immigration would do in your case, the child has Australian passport with entry stamp but an expired visa. All I can say is that I wouldn't dare to just try to go out myself without more documentation. I can't say that immigration would be wrong if they stopped you and said that there was someting fishy going on

Yer Mikey, I will discount the idea of taking him outside the country for now. I will simply have an agreement with my X that when i away OS she looks after my son, for now. yet have the 5\2 or 4\3 listed on our contract. As asked before a contract agreement should be admissable in court at a later date. There is a fair bit to arrange and one more fight will undo all this...

I forsee hassles when either of us gets involved with another. And when I wish to bring him OS with me. So the agreement is important and I forsee us going to court earlier than i would have wished. i have a couple of appointments booked with CMai lawyers in the next couple of weeks. So I can select the best one for the job...

If anyone can make a recommendation of a CMai Family Law Lawyer- that would be great.

I just trying to get her to cooperate in a sensible manner for now. As she does have her son's best interests at heart. Yet our disputes impairs her judgment when she in a rage. So i must avoid any contact with her except in relation to our Son.

Ultimately I think she happy to receive something- being 4000bt, as opposed to nothing. As she begins to suffer financially and it only been 3 weeks without my help. At some stage will need to find another when she gives up on me.

I contemplated getting back in her life temporarily to obtain the original birth cert and original passport. Yet she will go on a rampage if she feels she has only been used to this end. yet having his originals would be very handy- maybe something I can negoitate with her at a later date. As she will have little fear when he is a Thai citizen.

I hope our custody agreement that will be produced in the next month will stand up in court WHEN their are hassles.

Thanks again

:jap:

CARROT: Give nothing more until son is legitimized in Thai court.

Thai judges in Juvenile court don't like fathers who don't pay anything for their children. Pay minimum legal minimum or it will reduce the possession you get. Why do you think you have right to part possession of the child if you don't pay anything for him?

Good call Mikey- I will send my son through 4000bt pm, as suggested. Then I can say I send 33% more than the legal minimum and she lives way out in the countryside. Show that when together she had 20000bt pm to spend on the whole family + most my food\drink.

When I said 20,000bt pm, that was when we were together. Basically supporting everyones food, drink, extras, including some of my own. Yet I had a seperate account for extras I bought. So the 20K bt was not for my X by herself... but yes it a good amount pm for a rural family. I thought only fair we pay for her families (parents, grandma, teen brother) food, drink, electric, expenses whilst we living under their roof. Ohh yer the biggest expense would have been the car I bought- petrol a killer when you drive a lot. So I was not a major cash cow- minor cash cow...

I doubt many farangs can live on that by themselves- it only $700pm. Not with living in a nice Condo, car, etc. No way with a car, no chance.

How do you intend to pay her the money?

If you are going to, it needs to leave you with a record of payments.

I had opened a BKK Bank account for her and my son. Wherever I am in the world at that particular time I will simply flick over 4000bt on a certain date monthly. I will make it from our official breakup date, when she went into a rage and throw me out of her family home. So I due to pay her a 1st instalemnet in 1 week.

She finally talked to me and stressed she borrowed a lot of money from extended family to cover bills for my son. As she used to buying the most expensive of everything for him. I told her to have washable nappies (She balked at this), explained she will not have the deposable income she once had unless she goes to find another, she must budget according to 4000bt pm for my son. Yet if she agrees to a 4\3 split she will get the 6000bt pm and will not need to pay for 4 days for our son pw.

I stated I needed all copies of his passport and birth cert to ligitize me as the father in Thai. Plus make him a dual citizen.

i will need to hire a nanny for 2 to 3 days from 4 as I work. Not retired as 33yo.

Now secured a nice Condo in CMai, nice car and working around town. It takes approx. 2 hours to pick up my son but that no hassle. Well for half the week anyway. My near 8yo daughter primarily lives with my parents and they rarely ask for money as they wealthier than me.

Hopefully my X and I can communicate in the future, purely about the son I had with her.

As Mikey advises it is important that you show you have done everything you can to be a good father and remain calm. Regardless of the games the girls play against you. Know that the legal minimum is 3000bt pm and if not taking a record the court will think you paid nothing. So save all you transactions or western union transfers for the future if you X tries to not include you in your childs life. :jap:

Shows the state of the economy when a CMai mother needs to sell off her daughter to an old man. She could not wait a few years. Yes in most other countries the mother would be held on very serious changes nearly equal to that of the alleged abuser. Sad times...

CARROT: Give nothing more until son is legitimized in Thai court.

Thai judges in Juvenile court don't like fathers who don't pay anything for their children. Pay minimum legal minimum or it will reduce the possession you get. Why do you think you have right to part possession of the child if you don't pay anything for him?

Good call Mikey- I will send my son through 4000bt pm, as suggested. Then I can say I send 33% more than the legal minimum and she lives way out in the countryside. Show that when together she had 20000bt pm to spend on the whole family + most my food\drink.

When I said 20,000bt pm, that was when we were together. Basically supporting everyones food, drink, extras, including some of my own. Yet I had a seperate account for extras I bought. So the 20K bt was not for my X by herself... but yes it a good amount pm for a rural family. I thought only fair we pay for her families (parents, grandma, teen brother) food, drink, electric, expenses whilst we living under their roof. Ohh yer the biggest expense would have been the car I bought- petrol a killer when you drive a lot. So I was not a major cash cow- minor cash cow...

I doubt many farangs can live on that by themselves- it only $700pm. Not with living in a nice Condo, car, etc. No way with a car, no chance.

The waiting time for the fact finding session in Bangkok is currently around 2 months so if you haven’t already started the process, then you are not going to get custody formalised in 2 months, not in Bangkok anyway, I don’t know the waiting times in other parts of the country. If the mother doesn't contest, then it will be a shorter period before the judge signs the papers granting you legitimization and shared custody and then another month before it takes legal effect. If the mother contests, then it will be at least another month, probably two before decision is handed down to add to that. To get legitimized and recognised as legal father is a formality, to get shared custody is easy. Any father trying to be a good father will get shared custody. How much of the possession of the child he will get is a different matter though. I don’t like when you write: as I have assets, she does not. One clarification: You get shared custody because you are good for the child, not because of your assets. If you are good for the child, then you will get custody also without assets. If you are bad for the child, then you ill not get possession of the child regardless of assets

Foreign papers: My first sample explains it best I think: A western marriage certificate has no value in Thailand until it has been formalised. The formalisation of a marriage certificate is done by registering the marriage at the amphur. Your different Aussie papers are no different. They mean nothing in Thailand until they have been formalised. That generally means registered or stamped at your embassy and then properly translated to Thai and certified at the ministry of foreign affairs department of consular affairs. Some papers can be used at this stage, others need to have been submitted and accepted as evidence in a court case before they can be used to anything, yes.

I don’t understand why you talk so much about custody. You will get custody, of course. You will get shared custody easily. It will be difficult for you to get sole custody because you would have to prove that the mother is dangerous and bad for the child bad for the courts to remove her custody. Her sickness doesn’t make her dangerous and bad for the child. That she has a police record in Australia could make her dangerous and bad for her child but that is depending on what she has done. Theft is certainly not going to remove custody, neither is perjury. Unstable and violent behaviour are bad qualifications for a parent though. What your lawyer is trying to do is probably to get as much possession of the child as possible. Maybe he is trying for sole custody but without formal evidence of unstable and violent behaviour then that is going to be difficult. It is not custody that is the important thing, it is possession of the child. If you can prove a criminal past, and that you are a serious father trying your best for your child, then you will get most of the possession, no doubt about it.

I wish you good luck. If the mother is all bad for the child then I wish you all the luck in the world. If you are better for the child but the mother is not all bad, then I wish you most of the possession of the child and that the mother is allowed to and have the possibility to visit her child sometimes.

Don’t tell me anything that is not for the best of the child. I dislike that. That is something very good to remember for court too. Never say anything that is not for the best of the child. Judges dislike that Have I explained well enough?

Good Luck

Mikyidea IN BOLD is not true. I was never married to my thai wife in Thailand. WE were married in America. WE had a child out of wedlock and then later got marrried. I never got any sort of formalized paper in thailand saying we were married. My daughter holds a US and thai passport. I got divorced in THAILAND and got full custody of my daughter. Went thru the childrens court here in Phuket. A thai court does not side with the thai but looks at the best interest of the child. The mother never bothered showing up for court.

So much of what u read here is not true. I have taken my daughter in and out of Thailand dozens of times and never once been stopped or asked any questions, never been asked for a birth certificate. She enters and leaves Thailand on her thai passport and then travels on her US passport. Never any trouble and this has been the way since she was 2 years old.

"This is regardless of if father has shared custody or not because of the simple reason that the immigration officer doesn’t know that. If the father has the childs birth certificate, then they are most likely allowed through"

why would having the birth certificate make a dam bit of difernece??

So you simply turn up at the airport and go in\out with your child with passport only? Never even needed to show you have sole custody for this purpose?

When have you needed to show the sole custody authorization?

Sounds like your wife did not give a dam, the same as my first wife..... It is much easier when they do not give a dam.

It is when they fight and do have maternal instincts that you will need to settle for a compromise. IMO.

I also have never had an issue bringing my first child in\out of any country. Although to renew her passport in Aussie I needed to get a magistrates court to sign off on sole custody for me. As i did not bother with this in Thailand. I simply got my daughter out, then she lived in Aussie near 4 years before i needed to get authorisation from the courts for the passport. For everything else from schools to medical nothing was needed. Inside thailand nothing has ever been needed to show as proof. As the mother does not really give a dam.

Yet a mother who does will NEVER let there child go without a fight. They would simply call the police and airport before you left the country the first time. If you already left they would hunt you down...... So I do not think we can compare the women whom really have maternal instincts and love for their children to those who do not.

Hi again,

No, No, No The advantage is always with the one in possession of the child. You can gain nothing by waiting. You should take this to court to get legitimized and get shared custody within the next 2 months. Your son will be 1 in Sep, Do not wait longer than August before formally starting the process. Regardless of if you plan to go back to Australia after or whatever. Do not wait, bad mistake. You can decide not to use the possession you are given and it is the mothers responsibility to sue if she formally wants to change it (which she won't). Or considering the mothers personality, if you wait for 2 years utilising it, then you probably have to go to court to get the mother to give you part possession. But you will be in a much more difficult position if you have to ask for custody and possession then instead of request to get what court already has decided you are entitled to. Fight for 5/2 regardless, minimum majority of the time, and as a good father say that if the mother is not dangerous for the child, then you will of course let the mother take care of him the times when you cannot, let her know afterwards that you will only use 2 for now

Drop of nappies: Little bit extreme. 100 bath per day is calculated from a formula. That was for 3 year olds. I should be a little bit more for less than 1 year old because of nappies, powder milk etc. I suggest paying 4,000 bath per month. Did I write that you could replace the money with things like that? Yes, you could probably pay 3,000 and a thousand bath in nappies etc that the mother use for the child when you are not there – must have receipts – and you can motivate that with that you as a father really want to be a part of your childs life. I don't think it is all good though. Who says that you should be allowed to decide what the mother use the legal minimum allowance on? You are not YET a legal father, don't push it. If she is short on money, then her rightful and culturally correct choice could be to use washable diapers instead and spend the money of necessities like food. I mean 4,000 transferred to her account every month (so that you have good evidence) and throw in a bit extra more luxury stuff (like nappies, clothes for the child) if you want. To show how much you want to be a part of your sons life.

Don't trust your Thai lawyer to 100%. Don't let him know that you are satisfied with 2 days! Big exclamation mark. Applies to all lawyers but even more as he is Thai and you are farang. You have quite a lot of good stuff on your side, Your communication to your lawyer should be sole try for custody but minimum 5/2 I think. You will have to prove that you are ready to take care of the child. Must have thought of nanny if you work, have company name and phone number, whatever, just so that your lawyer can say - Yes, already investigated etc.

"Over time I maybe able to pay off an amount to get 50% access- maybe. We will see...."

Don't work that way. Work - Get it now and use less if you want

"Pschologists say we cannot remember a thing before 3yo."

Can't remember is correct I think. Habits are a totally different matter though, if you're a humble suppressed 3 year old then you're not going to be a strong leader ever. I bet George Bush was stupid but showed leadership talents already when he was 3 years old I believe very much in the power of the unconscious mind

The lawyer I used is in Bangkok, charge USD 4,000 - not cheap. If you now are looking at legitimization, shared custody and willing to accept LESS than 50% possession, then I don't think you will need him. A less expensive lawyer, with family law experience!, should easily be enough with that you have.

"My thoughts are to use a less expensive lawyer- maybe 40K bt to gain access to my son at least half of the time. Then at 3yo a very good one to gain full custody...."

You now that's a bad idea now. Full custody = shared custody you will get now easily. You will never get sole custody in 2 years time if you don't get it now (and you probably won't get it now either).

"If court order states I have 4 days and she has 3 days- can i hand this to police and they will pick the child up if on a court document???"

NO, the police will refuse to act against the mother or a member of the extended family. Even if you have a court paper stating possession at certain times, then parental kidnapping is not a criminal offence in Thailand – the concept doesn't exist even. The police will most likely choose to read that as extended family kidnapping does not exist in Thailand. Since it's not a criminal offence, then it's a civil offence and they are out of jurisdiction. You will have to go to court and the court will order. The line is a bit fuzzy here. The police will not act against the mother but they may accept to come with you to the grand mother, I can see the police discussing and telling the grand mother the law, still, I doubt the police would forcefully remove the child from the grand mother. Could happen but I doubt it. After all, there are many more cases in Thailand where the grand mother take the child from the parents because the child is not cared for properly, than it is for mischievous intent. With a court paper in hand, ordering the mother (or grand mother) to provide the legal father with possession of the child – sure they will act. They have to.

Helmet… I think you know that I am a person who loves family more than anything in life. I love my daughter over everything and I'd donor my heart to her tomorrow if she needed it. Still I drive my daughter the 300 meters to school without helmet, in Bangkok even. And I allowed her to sit in the car without using the car seat and seat belt before. I worked on getting her to accept the seat belt of course but not to the level where it affected the happiness of travelling. My daughter is now 5 years old and she does put on her seat belt herself. She will start first grade next year and I will buy her a helmet and she will put it on herself. What I did was very very hard work. I accepted my daughter to be unprotected and took the shit on me. I tried to drive as safely and alertly as ever possible, always keeping concentration up. We have been to 50 provinces by car in Thailand like that Driving motorcycle without a helmet is the most common reason for pre-mature death in Thailand I think… I would do exactly the same as you do, I trust myself, that doesn't mean that I trust others. But I wouldn't expect the helmet to be always be used. If it is used on the little bit longer trips to the market, then I would be happy. Good initiative, I hope that the mother uses it as much as possible

"My X states it is my fault as i will not leave her a car"

You have spoilt her

Michael

:jap:Thanks again Mikey...

Makes far more sense than other posters who simply say U have no chance- which is irritatiing.

I will take your advice to start proceedings against the mother. As she will not let me see my son and I confirmed she is seeking another partner. From one of her friends whilst my son is left in the Village with the Grandma who works full time. So he is being passed between non family members who offer support like in most villages. Whilst she attempts to find a man who will support her to at least the same standard as I used too. I could care less now, as love and hate are very close emotions. You can end up hating a person you thought you once loved far easier than you can hate a stranger. So she supposedly after a new Dad for my son to support all of them. Maybe she can- but it will take quite a man to do this... Ultimately she wishes to have me battle another Farang, as she told me she may do before our final breakup. She is very pretty but not on the inside... so she will get many short timers in my mind.

Regardless my son is better off with me than strangers I feel. So I will commencing proceedings when I return to CMai next month. She does not believe I will and is betting on the fact I will not. Yet it sounds I must get official access NOW, rather than waiting a year or 2. It will be worth the couple of thousand to do this I feel. Then worth the 3-4K US for full custody rights when she makes very bad judgment errors in the future.

I fear in regards to picking up my son and will need to organize a group of mates to come along with Police to pick up my son. This is a hard ask to ask mates to accompany me with Police but a must do. Hopefully after picking him up the first couple of times they will allow me to pick him up myself from then on... Naturally the first time will be the hardest.

I will keep all updated on my Child Custody matter on this thread.

Thanks again Mikey.

Rule 1

Marry a Thai girl in Thailand.

Rule 2

Never take a Thai wife to your home country.

:(Sorry forgot to ask Rule 1 u mean 'Never marry a thai girl'. Is that correct or did you mean marry her only in Thailand. If so, for what purpose, more rights to future children.

Well at some stage like all girls they wish to marry and have a ceremony, so I see this as unavoidable. Unless you never committ, of course.

Rule 2- good luck never offerring to take a girl to your home country whom you been with for many years.

...............

So I did perform Rule 1- never married, yet Rule 2 she had incredible power to make up stories to police to try and get her way. Ultimately I needed to send her home under the pretense we were back together. Then renovated her family house to a comfort level I felt adequate and safe for my child...

I did my best yet do not agree with her vendetta in never letting me see my son now... It is unjust- yet that is her way.

OK

so the reason for rule 1 ....... in Thailand if you have not married the lady at the Amphur office you have no rights at all over any children, it is her child to do with what she likes. You are essentially not related to the boy and she is entirely within her legal rights (in Thailand) to never let you see the child again. As you are not the father (in Thai law) if you attempt to remove the child it is kidnapping. If you were married, there is no law in Thailand relating to parental abduction.

and the reason for rule 2 ...... divorce awards and child maintenance, pretty much nothing if you marry/divorce/live/breed in Thailand (she can't get out to foreign courts), everything you own if you took her to the western world.

I read Mikeys post, but your big hurdle in Thailand is you aren't considered the father, and without the mothers agreement are never likely to be considered the father.

Mikeys last sentence ....... legitimization is easy if the father and mother agree ............ but he missed out ...... but little chance if they don't agree.

Also as Mikey says STOP giving them money, cut off all funds, you are a cash cow that they will keep milking and hold on to the kid to keep the money flowing.

Without your funding, the Thai family wouldn't really be interested in keeping hold of a boy, no profit (except from you)

I agree this cash cow will stop paying out....

We have had an authorized DNA test when we were going through issues in Aussie. If the child was not mine I would not bother, yet DNA states as close to 100% as you can get. She wanted it done in Aussie to claim child maintenance, if I decided not to pay. Once proven I had no problem paying and bringing up my own child. Now she seems to want to give me no access whatsoever...

What you must consider is the child was born in Aussie and has my surname, not hers. I could authorise his passport when my partner was too sick. I am on his birth cerificate and he is not Thai. Until the mother files for a Thai birth certificate from Aussie, which she will not do. As she does not have a clue and will never do. My son is on an expired Visa, he can leave on his current Passport with me. When\If necessary- we have conflicting views that I will consult the Thai lawyers in regards too.

My X keeps our son's passport, birth cert and DNA results (i have copy of birth cert and DNA)- she will not communicate. With the same surname and getting a copy of birth cert it would not be considered kidnapping I have been advised. Maybe they were wrong... at some stage i will be requiring to take my son OS. If I am advised that I cannot do then I will pay my way back into my X's heart then acquire the documents I need. Similar to what I was required to do with my first child. I stopped being a cash cow before for 3 months then decided to take my daughter back to Aussie for a better life. I needed to get back with my first wife to gain access and trust, then a couple of months later she was safely in Aussie.

Very similar situation now exists- my 7.5 yo daughter came back to Aussie with me when she was 2.7yo. Her Mum called the police yet I was allowed to take my daughter back to Aussie. Only difference was we were married in Aussie, not Thai. My daughter born in Aussie. So next to no difference. My daughter had my surname so I was able to pull it off for her benefit.

Now I doubt Thai immigration would stop me if I boarded a plane with my son named the same as me. No chance- show them birth cert and passport at airport and away i would go.

Same as with my first child. I do not think the Thai authorities are as organised as you give them credit for.... 100% for sure I would not be able to in Aussie if the mother was against it. In saying all of this I must admit that with my 2nd spouse she would do everything she possibly could to stop me. Whereas my first wife simply asked police to stop me so she could talk to me. I needed to talk my way past the security to get my daughter to Aussie, plus pay offs were needed. Nothing has changed in Thailand- IMO. It can be done again- yet there is risk involved in doing it this way. So court in Thai is necessary....

Thus I chose to do this in court over time, probably considered the correct way in Thai. Yet once in Aussie the mother would have little chance, as criminal charges are pending against her. So if need be- done it once and I will do it again if necessary. It should not be necessary in the short term, yet it will happen for my son's benefit.

If DNA came back as not mine, then I would not even be thinking and talking about this now. She would have been back in Thai long ago and I would not be discussing this matter.

Yet I disagree it cannot be done in Thailand and many have stated the father taking his own child overseas is not kidnapping. She would need a court order to stop me or for the police to be bothered. Just like my first wife needed and did not even think to get.

You have their passport, birth cert, child has your name, tickets and you board the plane- you are home free........ IMO and experience.

:jap:Yes good post as always Mikey... some wise words and a fair bit of experience there.

Hope others get as much value from the posts as myself.

My son is only just turning 1 in a couple of months. So I will let the RAW breakup cool down over the term of this year.

As suggested I will only drop of nappies, milk, food, etc to equiv 3000bt pm. This will really put a strain on them.

Then see what happens, if my X heads off for the long term I will proceed and use her being away as not being a mother to my child.

Although she may need to get work or find another out od necessity. She is very pretty so I think it will be very easy for her to find another man quickly and easily to support her.

Yet when it comes to my son I will not be instantly going to court as soon as another man is involved. As most men will not want this battle. This will put her into a difficult situation to pursue men to secure families future or keep her child. It will be a battle of values for her. Yet if she pursues others in BKK or CMai then she will be many hours away from my son.

Not many men will accept to take care of her and the whole extended family including my son. It would need to be a very generous soul to do this. In this event I will check up on my son over the next year or 2 then monitor.

If she does not give me at least 2 days access from age 1, in Sep 2010. Then i will need to goto court to get this permission.

Can anyone recommend any lawyers who are reasonably priced in CMai? I have been quoted 70,000bt from one whom works with a Farang advisor and translator for the full case. Yet i need to check into these guys credentials...I have a booking with them upon return.

I think to only get 2 days for 70,000bt is a bit rich. Over time I maybe able to pay off an amount to get 50% access- maybe. We will see....

Anyway it best to get just the right lawyers now, select the right ones, then proceed when the time is right.

Going off a previous experience with my daughter i know that the 3yo mark is critical- IMO. As Child Pschologists say we cannot remember a thing before 3yo. My daughter was 2.7yo and forgot all her Thai and picked up English within 3-4 months. The abuse she suffered at the hands of her mother was all forgotten and she is a health and happy girl now. With no thoughts at all of her experiences in Thailand. Thankfully.

Yet we all noticed in the first year she was in Aussie as a 3yo that if someone raised their voice she disappearred. As many events happened to her as an infant, it will be in the sub conscious somewhere. Yet her environment is one of only love, care and happiness now.

Only can wish for the same for my son. Our children should not need to suffer for our own choices in partners and those who get pregnant on purpose. You must watch out in a country that you have so many more choices in and not get carried away with being noticed everywhere. As it is not real when compared to your own country, no matter how handsome or well off or such a catch we all think we are..... My 2 cents...

Good one Mikey- you sound like a very concerned parent and your comments are highly appreciated. Thank you for your help.

What lawyers did you use Mikey, or would you recommend now? I am guessing there will be a big difference between a 30K bt lawyer to 100K bt lawyer.

My thoughts are to use a less expensive lawyer- maybe 40K bt to gain access to my son at least half of the time. Then at 3yo a very good one to gain full custody.... Although i guess it does not work like that. A bad lawyer for 40K bt may stuff up the whole thing. Plus simply getting some custody is a lot different from my X actually handing over my child when I drive up in my car- more likely to be handed the pointy end of a gun than my child currently.

If court order states I have 4 days and she has 3 days- can i hand this to police and they will pick the child up if on a court document???

I sent my son a $100 46cm helmet that i hope they put on him. As BIG concerns in regards to all the motorbike driving around the village. My X states it is my fault as i will not leave her a car- yer right- always my fault she takes him on the motorbike for any reason whatsoever- differing value system. Cannot get through to these people and if something happen to him they would never blame themselves. What a world...

Good discussion

A police record of assault with a deadly weapon, a suspended sentence is good evidence. If it is going to be enough for sole custody or not is impossible to say. My guess is no, but you should surely get the lions share of the possession of the child. Your best choice could be to go for sole custody but at the same time push that you guarantee the mother (organised) visitation rights. It is Very difficult to take away the mothers visitation rights totally, and I find it hard to imagine a case that should warrant it too, what you write doesn't either really. This has nothing to do with that you are the father, in fact, you are fortunate to be in Thailand because the fact that you are a father will not be held against you here. Nor will the fact that you are a westerner, if you behave in court… Respect is a very important word to remember, don't speak unless you are told to and should, never ever say anything that is not in the best interest of the child. A court battle for custody and possession of a child is not a battleground between parents who hate each other, I bet judges really dislike… people who act that out. One advantage you have that you should take is your ability to control yourself and be tactical. Calmly talk about the best for the child, father and mother must be able to communicate for the best of the child… and let the mother do the ranting

"To me this showed me that the money has little to do with custody unless u can buy the other off- literally...

That is not so. We should see it like this: Money doesn't buy custody, showing that you are a good parent does. How much possession of the child is more up to who can provide the better future for the child but not necessarily (yet) for a one year old. That comes more into play when it's time for school. It could be that you have to be back in court again when the child reaches school age.

"I think who can give the child a better upbringing comes into the picture as well... yet you do not think so"

But I do. What you miss is that I consider that the child is one year old and that what you (and I) both consider important - upbringing with good stimulus, let the child try and fail without blaming her all the time, let her fall and scratch her knees a bit sometimes… You know, Thai vs. western upbringing methods – is less important for the judges than it is for us, and that it becomes more important later for the judges than it does for us (that's what I think anyway). Also, IMO, the fact that you can provide this does not remove the mothers right to influence her childs upbringing. That is her right and isn't automatically bad for the child. She can offer the extended family for the child, and that's good for the child, can you do that? I have been in Thailand for too long to think that Thai values are bad, the child would benefit from a mixture of both.

"If she was simply normal with no criminal history then i would not have a chance"

Yes you would. You would get shared custody and visitation rights every weekend, Saturday morning to Sunday evening or Friday evening to Monday morning. Most likely. If you can prove that you have been a good and caring father in the past and intend to continue to be that

"As fathers are delegated to a support role only. Providing child support and hopefully geting visitation rights. Due to how dangerous it would be for me to visit in the remote village and her past actions I feel I have no choice than to try for sole custody"

You are bringing your western values with you, don't automatically do that. Fathers are not delegated to a support role only in Thailand, that is the (bad) implementation of Juvenile law that many western countries had (in some cases still have), it doesn't apply here. Yes, you would probably have to visit the remote village to fetch the child, you could also raise the concern in court and ask the court to order the mother to leave and fetch the child at your place. You have to be reasonable, you have to life decently close and offer to pay for the extra cost. It is also not wrong to ask the court for advice, as long as you build the judges the picture of a father who wants the best for the child. If you have to fetch the child in the village, then always bring a witness and video-film it (until it runs smoothly). If the mother doesn't let you have the child, then document minimum 3 to 5 times and then sue. The court can order another arrangement if the mother refuse to follow their first order.

"Yet the split up is still raw and court is looming so I do not expect her to wish for a mediation session"

Split-ups often are. The mother will be ordered to go to the fact-finding and the mediation sessions, she can come or not, up to her. She would be stupid if she didn't go to at least the court session.

"My compromise would be that she has visitation rights to my son, on a weekly basis. taking him every weekend. However that will not be possible if we head back to Aussie, so my son can have extended family support as well. So we both know the score- only one will get my son in this case. The other will be unable to get visitation due to the Rage events that she creates. My job in to ensure that I can prove that she is the primary cause of the judgment errors that cause harm. Which she is... "

I doubt you will get sole custody, you could very well get Monday to Friday and the mother Sat and Sun, the opposite is also possible, or anything in between, no one knows until the judges gives the order. The courts will most likely not allow you to take your son back to Australia, not against a very maternal mum's wishes. If the mother has rage events as you say, then raise the concern. The father worries that…, ask their advice, perhaps ask them to take into consideration the mothers violent behaviour when they take a decision. Let them (nicely, one time is enough) know that you expect to be back in court again because you expect the mother to break her end of the agreement.

Be polite, don't give up or give in easily, be hard and be reasonable, expect the judges to negotiate extensively rather than order - Thai judges know that the parents are more likely to honour an agreement than an order – don't pay too much money at this stage. That is going to set the norm for what the mother will request and judges will not find it hard to formalise the same amount as you are already paying of course. The legal minimum for a 3 year old is about a hundred bath per day, could be a little more for a one year old but not much. That is more than enough for a mother taking care of her child while living in the village, more than enough. If you are paying more, then reduce it…

From Sarahsbloke

"Thai courts do not like Thai children to be taken out of Thailand, you are unlikely to get custody of any sort from a Thai court if you plan to live in Australia/USA"

Yes and No. Thai courts will have concerns on the mothers visitation rights and would prefer the child to stay in Thailand, yes. I have been here long enough to say - So would I But it does not mean that you will not get shared custody, you will still get that. If the mother raises the concern that you plan to deny her rights to the child by taking him abroad, then the court will act to prevent that from happening. But not by not giving shared custody to a caring father.

"Renovated her families house to ensure my son's safety and comfort. yet they all receive this safety and confort- large list of items yet i am unconcerned."

That's a benefit for the mother and the father. The mother can now safely have the child in the family's home during her time with the child and you have shown that you are a caring father.

Don't buy cars and new kitchens, stop that immediately. It is not going to benefit you really and it is not needed for the court case.

"The more I hear from others the more i feel this battle should not be fought in Thailand"

This is a country where you will have a better chance than in many other countries. This is a country where you will be given a fair chance, also being a foreigner. Do you think a foreign father would be given a fair chance against an Australian mother in an Australian court? No? It does not necessarily mean that you will get everything you want though. Parents living far away from each other are causing problems for their children, and themselves everywhere in the world. No law can change that. I don't agree with what you write here.

The rules;

Marry in Thailand and don't bring her to your home country. The very vast majority of Thai nationals moving to live in another country are more or less unhappy and want to come home again. Cross-cultural marriages are difficult enough anyway, don't reduce the chances of them succeeding even more by taking away her extended family and her network of friends. If you do bring her abroad, realise that you must help her to get friends, many friends or the relationship is likely to fail. If you live with a girl permanently, then you should marry her, out of respect for the girl and her family. Thai's do not care about the registration of the marriage, it's the ceremony for the family and relatives that is important. Legitimization and shared custody can easily be obtained at Juvenile court if the mother and the father agrees, no need to register the marriage to get that

Good Luck

Great input Mikey...

So I need to state I am living and working in Thailand, under my Co Ltd name. I which I offer to live relatively close then state i am living here indefinately on my Business Visa.

100bt pd (OK- very low), she been getting approx. 20000bt pm + renovation of the family home since the child was born. As I lived in hope all would turn out for the best- getting family counsellors, reading culture books (Trying to get her to without success) and improve skills in her language and anything else I could think of. Except committing to marriage and ceremony. As I am not a big believer to a piece of paper that is a contract for the less fortunate. She fighting me on every little item, made us both lose interest in the other.

She dependant on me paying for her Chronic Hep B medication to live currently costing another 15000bt pm. Yet now i state she must find another way to get the medication she needs. As my responsibility is no longer to her.

Yet i paid for the entire year, so she will not worry about it 'Thai style' until she runs out. If she does nothing then Doctors say she has a year left. The court must take into consideration that the Aussie doctors state her medical condition is very bad. She is trying to make me look heartless for not wishing to support her anymore. Yet she been supported as a dependant for 4 years, even when she was totally healthy. There has always been an excuse for her to do next to nothing. Now taking car of a child is a shock for her yet she doing her best for better or worse. Plus she has an extended family to assist.

It is frastrating that she makes up all sorts of completely false stories to try and save her face in her village. As it would be the only place in Thailand that I seem completely hated.

I cannot see how she will survive but when you need to you usually find a way. She has before and she will again. The family has a lot of land, so they could come up with funds if really needed too. Like they have sold off some of their ancesters land in the past to get by... Now they may need to for court and keep the same lifestyle they got very used to very quickly when I have been there.

Now what if she takes off as she must to get $$$. Leaving my son with her Grandma whom works full time and the child is past around amongst strangers. She will be under huge pressure now, as she hates villagers talking behind her back (They will as they all saw her in a rage and me try speak calmly)

Also is their any lawyers or consultants that you can recommend in CMai. Although BKK will be fine as we 200km from CMAI and 500km from BKK. Current lawyers wish for a retainer of 50,000bt without doing anything yet. Is this standard, or like in Aussie can I request a lawyer whom will bill according to the work performed.

Also the lawyers I have not yet officially hired state she probably will not have the funds to go against me in court. So she will not turn up and we will win sole custody. I told them the issue then will be in picking up the child from a remote village.

The ways in Thai, especially in countryside Thai as so very different to Aussie. I cannot see them coming to court and cannot see them giving up the child without a huge battle. Wild west style.

As you state if she actually support my child in the village it may work out OK, until he 4yo (closer to school age), then sole custody maybe the issue. Depending on her health and the choices she makes in the next few years.

If my X is gone in the future, surely the grandma will not have more rights than the father and I could simpy pick him up. this is what i have been advised in Aussie.

Rule 1

Marry a Thai girl in Thailand.

Rule 2

Never take a Thai wife to your home country.

:(Sorry forgot to ask Rule 1 u mean 'Never marry a thai girl'. Is that correct or did you mean marry her only in Thailand. If so, for what purpose, more rights to future children.

Well at some stage like all girls they wish to marry and have a ceremony, so I see this as unavoidable. Unless you never committ, of course.

Rule 2- good luck never offerring to take a girl to your home country whom you been with for many years.

I do not see how most could make rule 1 and 2 work out if they committed for the long run. The women will demand it at some point- some in months others in years...

First time I married in Aussie, not made official in Thai. That being an advantage in getting my daughter back to Aussie.

Second time no committment under a great deal of pressure. Ultimately this being the main basis for conflict. So getting my son whom has my surname to Aussie is doable, yet getting past the thai family will be difficult.

So I did perform Rule 1- never married, yet Rule 2 she had incredible power to make up stories to police to try and get her way. Ultimately I needed to send her home under the pretense we were back together. Then renovated her family house to a comfort level I felt adequate and safe for my child...

I did my best yet do not agree with her vendetta in never letting me see my son now... It is unjust- yet that is her way.

It the mother can't enter Australia/USA (police or visa problems) and the child is already in Australia/USA, then you have no worry.

If the mother can enter Australia/USA and get the child back to Thailand (and you were not married in Thailand) then you have a problem.

If the mother already has the child in a Thai village and you were not married in Thailand, you will most likely only see the child again if she allows it.

Thai courts do not like Thai children to be taken out of Thailand, you are unlikely to get custody of any sort from a Thai court if you plan to live in Australia/USA.

Rule 1

Marry a Thai girl in Thailand.

Rule 2

Never take a Thai wife to your home country.

Never married the girl- she was tourist Visa's in Aussie. Had our son in Aussie... Had DNA test to make sure I was father. Once confirmed took care of my son as best as possible, even when in conflict with gf. Renovated her families house to ensure my son's safety and comfort. yet they all receive this safety and confort- large list of items yet i am unconcerned. As long as I could play with my son, who is a very happy little 1yo boy.

I expected nothing from her, as I never received anything and we both knew we were coming to an end.

I tried hard to work out a compromise for the best care for my son. Yet she wishes to hold my son and I do not gain access out of her misguided concept of vengence. She declares I must marry her with ceremony, the car I just bought to go in her name plus a new FINO and the family needs a new kitchen. Obviously I was not going to be threatened into doing all these items just so i can see my son. As after I am finished more demands will come and at some stage i will not get to see my son.

Yes I understand if I get him to Australia then she will be unable to follow due to charges against her.

I have thought about dropping my application for custody and trying to buy my way back into my son's life. Then take off with him to Aussie, As I am listed as his primary guardian. I do not think there will be an issue getting on the plane.

The more I hear from others the more i feel this battle should not be fought in Thailand. I can find other ways to get him to Aussie. Yet she knows what I would be up too, if my stance towards her changes.

So I may drop the case and take on a new strategy that will take sometime. Ultimately it will be what is best for my son. To think that harm may come to him in the future due to her judgment errors and mental health affects me greatly. Anyway patience will be a vitue in this case... As with my daughter before....

The waiting time for the fact finding session in Bangkok is currently around 2 months so if you haven't already started the process, then you are not going to get custody formalised in 2 months, not in Bangkok anyway, I don't know the waiting times in other parts of the country. If the mother doesn't contest, then it will be a shorter period before the judge signs the papers granting you legitimization and shared custody and then another month before it takes legal effect. If the mother contests, then it will be at least another month, probably two before decision is handed down to add to that. To get legitimized and recognised as legal father is a formality, to get shared custody is easy. Any father trying to be a good father will get shared custody. How much of the possession of the child he will get is a different matter though. I don't like when you write: as I have assets, she does not. One clarification: You get shared custody because you are good for the child, not because of your assets. If you are good for the child, then you will get custody also without assets. If you are bad for the child, then you ill not get possession of the child regardless of assets

Foreign papers: My first sample explains it best I think: A western marriage certificate has no value in Thailand until it has been formalised. The formalisation of a marriage certificate is done by registering the marriage at the amphur. Your different Aussie papers are no different. They mean nothing in Thailand until they have been formalised. That generally means registered or stamped at your embassy and then properly translated to Thai and certified at the ministry of foreign affairs department of consular affairs. Some papers can be used at this stage, others need to have been submitted and accepted as evidence in a court case before they can be used to anything, yes.

I don't understand why you talk so much about custody. You will get custody, of course. You will get shared custody easily. It will be difficult for you to get sole custody because you would have to prove that the mother is dangerous and bad for the child bad for the courts to remove her custody. Her sickness doesn't make her dangerous and bad for the child. That she has a police record in Australia could make her dangerous and bad for her child but that is depending on what she has done. Theft is certainly not going to remove custody, neither is perjury. Unstable and violent behaviour are bad qualifications for a parent though. What your lawyer is trying to do is probably to get as much possession of the child as possible. Maybe he is trying for sole custody but without formal evidence of unstable and violent behaviour then that is going to be difficult. It is not custody that is the important thing, it is possession of the child. If you can prove a criminal past, and that you are a serious father trying your best for your child, then you will get most of the possession, no doubt about it.

I wish you good luck. If the mother is all bad for the child then I wish you all the luck in the world. If you are better for the child but the mother is not all bad, then I wish you most of the possession of the child and that the mother is allowed to and have the possibility to visit her child sometimes.

Don't tell me anything that is not for the best of the child. I dislike that. That is something very good to remember for court too. Never say anything that is not for the best of the child. Judges dislike that Have I explained well enough?

Good Luck

Fair Enough... She can be dangerous to the child and has a police record of assault with a deadly weapon. She was charged in Aussie in 2007 and given a suspended sentence. Due to her committing perjury in court against me earlier this year, the police have issued another warrant for her arrest in Australia. She is not all bad, yet her rage like events at times make her perform bad judgment calls for herself and our son.

She will make the same mistakes with other men I feel and this makes her a threat to my son. Thus we are trying for sole custody on this basis.

I think who can give the child a better upbringing comes into the picture as well... yet you do not think so.

Yet I get your point that just because she has less does not mean she cannot be a good mother. Is she good? Most of the time- yes. Is she dangerous? Sometimes when events do not go her way. Thus the basis of the sole custody claim.

the police evidence will be critical in this case- upon querying the solicitor they have said the same in terms of having the documentation of Warrants for Arrest, etc translated and authorized by my Embassy. I think we have got a strong case. If she was simply normal with no criminal history then i would not have a chance. Mental and physical health does seem to play a part in whom can best provide and care for the child. Always in normal circumstances no judge likes to take a child away from the mother. As fathers are delegated to a support role only. Providing child support and hopefully geting visitation rights. Due to how dangerous it would be for me to visit in the remote village and her past actions I feel I have no choice than to try for sole custody.

If it was simply a case of the father trying to get back at the mother by taking the child, for whatever reason. Then I am sure the judge would see straight through these fathers whom just wish to exert their power via money.

I have continually tried to talk to my X, to ensure the safety of my son and make sure they have enough money to live. Yet the split up is still raw and court is looming so I do not expect her to wish for a mediation session.

My compromise would be that she has visitation rights to my son, on a weekly basis. taking him every weekend. However that will not be possible if we head back to Aussie, so my son can have extended family support as well. So we both know the score- only one will get my son in this case. The other will be unable to get visitation due to the Rage events that she creates. My job in to ensure that I can prove that she is the primary cause of the judgment errors that cause harm. Which she is...

Vantexan

It's a tough call, I was really impressed with the looks of the houses and condos an the low cost. Property taxes are almost non existent, like a few hundred dollars a year. But the tax on world wide income pretty much killed my enthusiasm for Ecuador.

Good luck in your search, hope you find the perfect place.

How are they going to know your 'worldwide' income- come on... Who declares income made from multi countries. There is no way i would be- as an investment in Aussie will have 30% capital gains applied to it anyway- then what you expected to declare this to ecudor, so they can take more.

No I do not think 99% of expats in Ecudor would be so stupid...

Having lived here for 26 years I would love to leave. Am not retied - no pension - and my last business venture has just been shot by the reds. I need to pull off one more before leaving here.

Having lived in Trinidad a very long time ago, I did love the place, but highly increased crime rates since the last 15 years stop me from moving there. The same accounts for Mexico.

I'm looking at Lang Kawi or KL as a real alternative. I never wanted to move to an Islamic country but Malaysia is kind of stable and they let you do what you want and actually welcome foreigners. Easy long term visa or even residence. You can buy land / a house or build one. You do not need native shareholders when opening a company.

Infrastructure is far better than in Thailand and the place is actually cheaper - housing -+ food. Everybody speaks English and people are friendly, real friendly, not the false "smile" friendly like here.

:blink:What part of KL were u in- I did not experience cheaper prices and better service... Plus it was unbelieveably HOT- like amazingly HOT.

Yes I was attracted by the land and house ownership also and the foreign investment rules are far more adventagous. As Thailand does appear not to really want us here, as the rules are very hard against expats, foreign investors, etc... IMO.

Interesting suggestions being put forward yet it all comes down to your own situation. Your age, do you still wish to work or invest, climate you wish to live, financial situation, medical condition, etc.

I have had friends living in Thailand that needed to return to their home country due to illness. As naturally you feel safer around true loved ones, than possibly fake loved ones in a foreign country.

In general, the Philippines is very dangerous, so I would rule that out right away. Decent medical care in both Vietnam and Cambodia is as expensive as the US - unless something has changed since I was there last - and rents in both places are higher than Thailand.

Just a guess as I have not been traveling for awhile, but maybe Malaysia or Laos might compare with Thailand as far as quality of life for a reasonable price?

Yes I find their is a huge amount of competition in CMai to keep prices down. Loas is comparable yet not as active, or lively. If peace and quiet is what u are after Loas, South China is a good bet (Cooler also typically). Taiwan was OK some years ago, not sure about prices now.

Look up the Cost of Living Index by city, then query the expats who live there, then check them all out. I have not found a place that has so much things for Farangs to do, eat, buy, etc for a smaller city than CMai. Yet the heat wave took it out of me this year, Loas may have been a good getaway from March till June.

Philipinos try to move to Thailand- so that saids something.... it a step up. Cambodia a step down, do not even attempt Burma IMO. Vietnam has its charms, yet more costly in general. Malay is more costly and as hot as hel_l.

Some mates enjoy Indoneasia, I have only checked out the Bali area. Some parts maybe comfortable. Obviously BKK not on your list- too big, hot and crowded. Yet more work if u still working.

Good luck in the hunt.......

Excellent post thai-spy.

A quick sum-up.

Forget any foreign papers, they have as little value as used toilet paper. Sample: practically, you and your wife are not married in Thailand only because you are married abroad. You can use the marriage certificate to get your foreign marriage registered in Thailand of course, but your misses and you are not married in Thailand until you do and laws regarding e.g. custody of child apply as if you are not married

Forget that the child is an American Citizen and that she has an American passport. That has no legal meaning whatsoever in Thailand. There are no negative aspects either, it simply means exactly nothing.

Forget DNA… Well, not quite, it's just that it is not needed. If the fathers name is specified on the birth certificate and the mother does not contest the fathership, then DNA is not going to be asked for. If the mother contests that you are the biological father, then you need to get a letter from juvenile court, then you go to a government hospital in Thailand (not any hospital) and get your DNA test for 5,000 bath…

Most westerners complain on Thai Juvenile law, especially people who don't know much. If it isn't as it is at home, then it's wrong. Thai juvenile law is not bad at all, but it is different.

Now, let's see. It is VERY good of you to post here first, I wish more western fathers did, then I wouldn't have to wear out my keyboard offering advice after the problems already have arisen…

I suppose: You and the mother are not legally married in Thailand, if you are then you already have shared custody of your child. If you are not legally married in Thailand, and you have not petitioned the court to get your child legitimized, or you have not legitimized your child by going to the amphur to request a bai rapp long bott (certificate of fathership), then the mother has sole custody and you have no obligations nor any rights to your child. In short, you are hardly even a relative of your own child

I assume that the birth certificate shows your name as father;

How old is the child? If the child is less than 7 years old, then legitimization can normally only be done at juvenile court - because the law specify that child and mother must agree, 7 years old is the approximate age when child is considered OK to do that. Westerners tend to scream here; Why does the child have to agree that I am the father? The child doesn't have to agree at all, but the law is written so that if the child doesn't agree, then it must be confirmed in a court. Fair enough?

Legitimization and custody at Juvenile court is very straight forward (unless it is contested of course), you will need a lawyer for the formalities but that's all. It is a 2 step process. 1) Legitimization = confirmation that you are the legal father. 2) Custody. The 2 steps can easily be combined if all parties agree. Waiting time in Bangkok is approx. 2 months for fact-finding session, then 2 more months and the judge (that you never even met) will have signed the paper giving you shared custody. Legitimization gives you obligations (which stay also if your rights are taken away) and custody gives you rights (which can be taken away if you don't behave).

If your child is approx. 7 years old or more, then you legitimize the child at the amphur, child and mother must go there and agree and it takes half a day and cost a few hundred bath. I legitimized my daughter at the amphur when she was 3 years old but that is unusual, don't expect it.

Thai Juvenile court takes decisions in the best interest of the CHILD… Note when you read Thai Juvenile law that the child is always mentioned first, then parents. That is not a coincidence. Here westerners often scream again. What about parents rights? They do exist of course, but the childs best is always considered first in the implementation of Juvenile law in Thailand. Incidentally, the western interpretation of Juvenile law has actually moved closer to the Thai interpretation the last 25 years…

So - the Thai Juvenile court system is not biased against the father like it used to be / is in western countries, nor is it biased against westerners. A good father who is doing his best for his child has nothing to worry about from Thai Juvenile court. He may not get everything he wants but he will get what is the best for the child. Always keep evidence: pay hospital bills, school fees etc yourself and always keep the bills. If you as a western father can prove that you have cared for the child well in the past and is good for the child, then you will get shared custody. And the court will order that you and the mother share time with the child, could be 4/3 could be 5/2, there are many combinations possible

OP: You should definitely go on with getting legitimized and getting shared custody, protect yourself

Good Luck

Now I concerned over my custody matter- the Aussie passport, Aussie Birth Cert, my DNA Cert, Authorized as primary carer in Aussie means 'nothing' in Thailand and can only be used as toilet paper.

My potential lawyers state they can guarantee I get custody within 2 months (That the claim). As I have assets, she does not. plus she has a police record in Aussie (This also mean nothing-ohh come on). Plus she is medically sick with chronic liver disease, diagnosed in Aussie, treated in Aussie, does not wish for treatment in thai. Aussie doctors give her maybe 3-4 years... she only 27yo. Chronic hep B all her life.

Yet made sure with all the vaccines in the world that my son did not catch. Supported her for nearly 4 years and her and my son for 1 year. Lawyers request all my bills to prove all this plus my income. All in Aussie certified doc's, naturally.

Given the above evidence to present i am told i will surely get custody as a professional working man, who has the assets and supporting family structure to make a better life for my child.

Now it appears that all this maybe considered 'used toilet paper'- I doubt it. Yet it is possible, as I never been through a child custody matter. As posted earlier I simply paid off my first wife and my now 7.5yo daughter is perfectly happy being brought up between me and my mother. She has the best of all worlds and is spoilt to death and private school, etc, etc. I hope for the same opportunities for my son, now my very Jai Rawn x-gf will not let him go without a battle. Although she does not have the money or assets to fight me in court. Therefore she is gunman this\that, kill herself and my son- blaa blaa heard it a million times...

I only got her out of Aussie because she made false allegation against me to Police and needed to defend myself in court. Whereby i had an audio of her admitting she made up stories. Now the Aussie police after her for perjury in court- yes I know 'what a catch'.

Advice please

QUOTE (nikster @ 2010-06-03 08:40:37) Last time I just left it at the aiport. 50 baht / day.

Unfortunately, airport is now 100 Bt per day ... ;-)

Philippe

What about losing the ticket--- what is the fine.... 200bt...500bt?

Anyway just a matter of asking around I guess... who to trust with ur car??? Mmmmm

Ohh well have insurance, so could really leave it anywhere i guess.

I was in there one night, two guys started fighting, security had it under control and took the guys outside. RIP for the poor girl who was stabbed.

I have seen just as bad at Melbourne night clubs and pubs in the wee hours, one Melbourne club I went to had a Airport style metal detector and guards with hand held detector units at the door, but that didnt stop them breaking bottles inside this Melbourne club.

Same- seen it all elsewhere... The last time I was at spicy I had my wallet pinched with 10K bt in it & my cards, licenses, etc plus my fake ray bands. I swear never to go again year after year- yet I am too curious when it comes to seeing if it has changed after so long. So long being approx 6 months, yet been there since Outdoor Spicy and when called Night Illusion. Outdoor spicy moved to Night illusion.

Anyway i deserved to have my stuff pinched after falling prey to my evil curious side.

Many would know u out and about all over town then you say 'What the hel_l'. I marked less than once a month- twice per year.

If\When ur marriage breaks down in Thailand & u need to consider custody issues I have found that the Women typically has most of the rights. As in any Farang country- probably moreso in a Farang country...

I have had 2 marriages break down to normal Thai girls. One child from each. Both born in Aussie.

Once in Thailand and the relationship breaks it is whom wants the child more that seems to prevail.

Marriage 1- Self obsessed partner whom easily gave up her rights as a Mother for 30K cash. She educated from well to do family yet was able to be bought for 1 Mil bt.

Marriage 2- Very maternal Mum yet very Jai Rawn with a large touch of Baaa. Now this has been a challenge. Uneducated Mum from poor village family cannot be bought out for any sum. Thus court looms for custody... Chances are I will have rights to see my child yet he is as good as gone with an insane Mum. He only 1 yo, so as he gets older he will have more choices himself. Unless his insane Mum kills him first.

To me this showed me that the money has little to do with custody unless u can buy the other off- literally...

Love is a very strange thing, can destroy the strongest of blokes. There are guys out there that cannot love, no problem, we are all made different. As for the older guys, well, my dad (god rest his soul) was looking at the ladies in his eighties, giving them points out of ten when we were out having a beer, although past it he loved the ladies. I think that many guys who come to LOS for a laugh just can't handle the attention from the beauties and they think this is the next best thing to heaven but for many it's a downward spiral with an unhappy ending. Just my thoughts. T

Having had a GH in CMai I have seen a lot... Young or old we all can fall prey of some pretty intelligent beauties. After having a good time for the first few weeks I think many should really access the situation. What does she do when not living off you- living off another? Does she have a day job or are you her day job? How much you willing to give in your time and money- as I believe everyone has a price... I seen many girls select a far older guy over a young handsome guy in a second- if the older one gives more. Overall depends on the girl...

However I do believe this motto to a large degree said by many expats 'once a bargirl always a bargirl'... Once again there are exceptions to this rule. As these girls built a mentality far different from the typical thai girl. They become hard, when once upon a time they had dreams of a prince and his castle....

I have had a guy commit suicide in my GH due to a girl, after finding him in a pool of blood I was not the same... Yet the girl was out dating a couple of days later.

Yet i seen the reverse happen- guys who promise the world to get a few nights, if lucky weeks of bedtime from a beauty. Then move on to the next and next... i pity those girls and I feel it hardens them for what is to come. In the end many have a heart of stone but know all the right things to say to take from future men. Blame the first few who broke their heart over and over many years before.

I seen once nice relatively untouched girls turn very hard within a year with the treatment some of us guys do to them. After a while we all become Numb to the events around us. Many items that once upon a time shocked me, are very normal now... We all build up a resistance to not feeling pain, or drink, etc. Many things can break us and often it is a lovely lady...

It was very hard to see both good guys being taken advantage of and being cut down and used. Even harder to see the girls being exploited in my opinion- yet most survive and harden themselves for what is to come. If you try develop a relationship with a hardened girl- good luck to you- you need to be a special person to transform this girl.

Ultimately we will never be equal to their birth family as 'Gat Tun Yuu' (Means ultimate sacrifice for parents, etc) is very strong in Asian cultures (Particularly Thai). Most of us cannot understand and never will... Gat Tun Yuu is a concept that often gets the girls into hunting for the best potential mate, then getting the most they possibly can from them.

NAM JAI (Unconditionally generous) is also very strong and is the strongest value in Thailand. The strongest Farang value is independance thus these 2 values clash very very often... There are good and bad vitues in all cultures i believe and it is simply fascinating to journey through life experiencing them.

Most are not scams- everyone wish to journey through live with someone who loves them. Ultimately commonsense needs to come into the picture. My 2 cents.

>>What Happens to Thailand's Sex Tourism During the Riots?

It takes a lot of violence to drive the sexpats away

By Jessica Olien<<

Calm down Jessica the majority of us 'Men' are not here for sex tourism. Seems like Jessica is not getting enough herself. As one poster said she has an axe to grind against men. Poor little thing.